[06:19] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:42] <MooDoo> #offtopic can you answer this poll for me please? - http://www.paulmellors.net/linux-based-computers/
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hmm sweets!
[07:48] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: lol it's an idea I got from lensfettish lol
[08:16] <mungbean> picked up the play house for my kid and 2 pieces wouldn't fit in the estate car. smuggled them into the back garden thinking it will be OK for a few days until we get the other bits. first thing my boy says this morning "whats that yellow red and green thing in the garden?"
[08:17] <MartijnVdS> ewps
[08:17] <mungbean> "ummm its a thing ..."
[08:17] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: how old is he?
[08:18] <mungbean> 3.5
[08:19] <mungbean> he didn't know what it was so desribed it perfectly
[08:20] <dwatkins> mungbean: you buried it?
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> .. or him?
[08:22] <mungbean> we hid it in the garden but he noticed
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> time for a bigger garden ;)
[08:23] <mungbean> i'm clearly not as observant as i wouldn't have been looking out of the window like that
[08:24] <popey> morning
[08:25] <SuperMatt> morning
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> morning popey, SuperMatt
[08:27] <popey> MooDoo: i have to say when i saw your blog post I was confused. "These are the words that strike fear into most computer users" - looked up and saw "Linux based computers" ☻
[08:32] <MooDoo> popey: sorry it was more for my windows based friends that are always coming to me with virus issues I wasn't going to post it in here with you lot :)
[08:32] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Yorkshire Day! :-D
[08:32] <MooDoo> I'll update the post title.
[08:33] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: wait.. really?
[08:33] <JamesTait> Really!
[08:33] <JamesTait> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Day is one source.
[08:34] <mungbean> that moment your machine freezes while momentarily checking facebook on one screen and irc on the other, and you hear your boss coming ...
[08:34] <mungbean> ctrl-alt-f1 .....cmon work!
[08:34] <JamesTait> mungbean, squeaky bum time!
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: boss key :)
[08:34] <mungbean> machine froze
[08:34] <dwatkins> alt-SysRq-R ;) (don't do this, obviously)
[08:34] <mungbean> turn off left monitor
[08:34] <mungbean> discretely
[08:35] <mungbean> stupid 4gb of RAM
[08:36] <dwatkins> I have 16 GB in my laptop, it's usually enough.
[08:37] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: so.. yorkshire pudding, wensleydale cheese?
[08:38] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, yum!
[08:38] <JamesTait> I mean, yes!
[08:38] <mungbean> grommitttt
[08:39] <MooDoo> I tried a stilton/brie cheese the other day omnomnomnom
[08:41] <ali1234> what's the deal with stilton? i think the only people who eat it are incapable of actually tasting it
[08:42] <popey> I quite like stilton
[08:42] <JamesTait> me too.
[08:42] <popey> mind you there's few cheeses I don't like
[08:42] <ali1234> do you also enjoy eating mouldy bread?
[08:42] <ali1234> because that's what stilton tastes like
[08:42] <popey> hah
[08:42] <popey> i dont recall tasting mouldy bread
[08:42] <dwatkins> I like blue cheese.
[08:42] <popey> I almost certainly have though
[08:43] <MooDoo> ali1234: do you drink lager?
[08:43] <popey> Ooh, its nice and sunny out here, could do with a lager now
[08:43] <ali1234> not really no
[08:43] <popey> too early I guess
[08:44] <MooDoo> ali1234: it's ok I was only teasing, was going to say if you don't like stilton and drink lager it would explain it as you can't deal with taste ;)
[08:44] <ali1234> i don't like any beer really
[08:44] <ali1234> i'd rather drink wine
[08:44] <MooDoo> we need an ubuntu uk home bew club
[08:44] <MooDoo> s/brew
[08:45] <MooDoo> ali1234: yeah I love a good red :D
[08:45] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I've already sent a sample to AlanBell and TheOpenSourcerer ;)
[08:45] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: nice, mine are in my mashing bins :D
[08:45] <mungbean> scenario: nfs server has high iowait, could be one of many clients/nodes using the data poorly and contention for same spindle - how to identify?
[08:45] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/en/our-beer/ (web shop only works in Dutch for now)
[08:45] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: iotop
[08:46] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: these the ones Alan reviewed on his blog?
[08:46] <mungbean> just says nfsd
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yes
[08:46] <ali1234> but really though, do people think stilton tastes like normal cheese but a bit stronger?
[08:47] <mungbean> also, iptraf shows highest traffic, but might not be traffic, might be contention for same spindle
[08:47] <JamesTait> ali1234, define "normal cheese".
[08:47] <ali1234> JamesTait: wensleydale, cheshire etc
[08:47] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Gouda ;)
[08:47] <ali1234> lancashire
[08:48] <ali1234> they all look pretty similar (well, if you get white stilton anyway)
[08:48] <JamesTait> I'm sure there are people who look upon those cheeses as bland, tasteless, whatever.
[08:48] <mungbean> i.e. which user is using a particular nfs process?
[08:49] <ali1234> cheshire is probably the strongest of them, but they all taste pretty much the same, ie like cheese
[08:49] <JamesTait> I like stilton because it tastes like stilton. :)
[08:50] <popey> i prefer soft cheeses
[08:50] <JamesTait> I still have half a mini camembert in the fridge.
[08:50] <ali1234> i like camembert
[08:51] <JamesTait> I occasionally treat myself to a bacon, brie and avocado sandwich on wholemeal seeded bread.
[08:52] <JamesTait> Then wait a few months for my arteries to unclog. ;)
[08:55] <JamesTait> MooDoo, have you published the URL for that poll anywhere else?
[08:55] <MooDoo> JamesTait: facebook g+ should I remove it?
[08:55] <JamesTait> I don't think so. :)
[08:56] <JamesTait> I was just going to share it on Facebook, but if you've already done that I'll share your post instead. ;)
[08:57] <MooDoo> thanks :D
[08:58] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: have you taken MooDoo's poll yet? ;)
[08:59] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: first i have heard of it.
[08:59] <MooDoo> brobostigon: I only put it on my blog this morning :D lol
[08:59] <brobostigon> MooDoo: ah, :)
[09:02] <MooDoo> brobostigon: just look at the latest blog post on paulmellors.net titled windows based computers
[09:02] <brobostigon> MooDoo: will do, :). i will add it to my rss also, :)
[09:03] <MooDoo> brobostigon: oh it's not that exciting lol
[09:03] <brobostigon> MooDoo: it is, it means i wont miss anything you write, now, :)
[09:04] <MooDoo> I'm just working on something and need to gauge peoples interested, people like you who already run linux on a pc won't find it of interest
[09:04] <brobostigon> i see.
[09:05] <MooDoo> brobostigon: no offense meant in that :) lol
[09:05] <brobostigon> MooDoo: i will forward it to people i know, who do use windows. :)
[09:05] <MooDoo> brobostigon: thank you
[09:06] <brobostigon> MooDoo: youre welcome,
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: there are rounding errors
[09:08] <brobostigon> MooDoo: question, you have no direct rss link on your page, it is wordpress, but whats the rss url?
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: 7%, 1 Votes vs 6%, 1 Votes
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: just put the page in your RSS reader, it should figure it out by itself (using the <link rel="alternate"> tag)
[09:09] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i see, ok, let me try that.
[09:10] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: alternatively, look at that tag yourself and add the URL in it to your rss reader :)
[09:13] <MooDoo> sory for causing so much hassle lol
[09:14] <brobostigon> no worries.
[09:15] <MooDoo> I have these ideas that cause hassles lol
[09:55] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:55] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:28] <mungbean> been trying out this gmic suite of plugins for gimp, seems to improve gimp hugely for photo manipulation
[10:28] <MooDoo> mungbean: got a url??
[10:28] <mungbean> http://blog.patdavid.net/2013/07/getting-around-in-gimp-photography.html
[10:29] <mungbean> http://blog.patdavid.net/2013/02/calvin-hollywood-freaky-details-in-gimp.html
[10:30] <mungbean> can't believe i never heard of it before
[10:31] <mungbean> i had the latest in the repos but thats cos i had otto's gimp.2.8 repo
[10:32] <mgdm> mungbean: oh aye, it's pretty nice
[10:32] <MooDoo> nice
[10:32] <mgdm> the sharpening stuff actually works
[10:33] <MooDoo> glad i'm cancelling my adobe CC subscription at the end of the month :)
[10:34] <neuro> funnily enough ... if [ $(bzgrep -c "GET /af/ $AFLOG") -gt 0 ] ... doesn't actually grep the file in the variable $AFLOG ... been looking at that for 20 minutes before i saw it :P
[10:34]  * neuro starts to make gurgling noises
[10:39]  * MooDoo pats neuro on the back
[10:39] <neuro> bloody web statistics
[10:40] <MooDoo> awstats ftw ;)
[10:40] <neuro> i need to massage the logs first
[12:03] <neuro> edward snowden has left the transit area of sheremetyevo
[12:03] <neuro> looks like he's gotten 1 yr temporary asylum in .ru
[12:04] <MartijnVdS> let's hope he's not gay..
[12:04] <MartijnVdS> or he'll be arrested again
[12:04] <MartijnVdS> (weird russians)
[12:04] <neuro> he'd be more likely to have the crap beaten out of him :(
[12:09] <dwatkins> I may be boycotting the winter olympics if Russia don't change that particular law.
[12:31] <MooDoo> if he's walking around .ru he won't last long
[12:52] <MooDoo> it's gone a bit quiet in here
[12:53] <mgdm> sssh, you spoiled it
[12:53] <MooDoo> zip!
[12:53] <mgdm> bz2!
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> 7z!
[12:57] <MooDoo> .tgz
[12:58] <mgdm> Rar.
[12:58] <diddledan> eek
[12:59]  * diddledan wonders who just tried wikipediing the "eek" compression format
[12:59] <popey> lhz
[12:59] <popey> lha even
[13:00] <diddledan> arc
[13:00] <popey> i used to have a floppy disk full of archiving tools
[13:00] <popey> pkzip, pkarc, arj, lharc...
[13:00] <diddledan> xz is the most compressive I've found for text
[13:00] <popey> happy days
[13:00] <MooDoo> popey: loads on the amiga!
[13:00] <popey> never had an amiga
[13:01] <mgdm> Jabber \o/
[13:02] <MattJ> Jabber \o/
[13:02] <mgdm> Wasn't sure if that still worked \o/
[13:02] <MattJ> It still works \o/
[13:03] <diddledan> Jabber \o/
[13:03] <diddledan> ?
[13:03] <MattJ> Jabber \o/
[13:03] <diddledan> am I missing something?
[13:03] <MattJ> http://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/jabber.png
[13:03] <MattJ> Since... 2008
[13:04] <MooDoo> going on about jabber sigh...i'd never mention jabber coz jabber isn't funny so please don't mention jabber
[13:04] <ali1234> what on earth is wrong with your computer?!?
[13:05] <MooDoo> it tends to jabber
[13:05] <MattJ> At least I don't have that compiz window wobble on highlight now
[13:05] <MooDoo> lol
[13:05] <diddledan> your window used to wobble when someone said jabber?
[13:05] <MattJ> Yes
[13:05] <diddledan> why would you have a jabber wobble?
[13:05] <diddledan> :-p
[13:05] <MooDoo> coz it's fun :D
[13:06] <MattJ> Thankfully no other channel has discovered my secret in all these year
[13:06] <MattJ> s
[13:06] <diddledan> lol
[13:19] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
[13:20] <MooDoo> hello big
[13:20] <MooDoo> hello bigcalm
[13:21] <brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
[13:22] <bigcalm> Who is celebrating IPA day? :)
[13:22] <brobostigon> IPA day?
[13:23] <diddledan> international p**is awareness day?
[13:24] <bigcalm> Indian Pale Ale
[13:24] <mgdm> IPA day, you say
[13:24]  * mgdm will acquire some Deuchars tonight
[13:24] <bigcalm> mgdm: mixed reports that it is today or tomorrow
[13:24] <mgdm> I'll celebrate twice, to be sure
[13:24] <bigcalm> :D
[13:25] <bigcalm> I might have to celebrate as well, after badminton
[13:26] <bigcalm> That said, I'm happy to celebrate the IPA any day of the year
[13:27] <mgdm> hehe
[13:30] <brobostigon> does celebrating IPA day, tonight with a curry sound acceptable ?
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: only if you also have an IPA ;)
[13:31] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, that what i meant, :)
[13:31]  * dwatkins assumes this is a beer-related abbreviation, not a financial one
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> though curry is supposed to be from the same I as IPA was originally developed for ;)
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's not international phonetic alphabet day
[13:32] <brobostigon> interwesting MartijnVdS
[13:32] <dwatkins> Oscar Kilo ;)
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ˌɪntərˈnæʃənəl fəˈnɛtɪk ˈæl.fə.bɛt
[13:33] <bigcalm> IPA wasn't developed in India. It started in England as a type of ale that would survive the journey to India
[13:33] <bigcalm> I think
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: most curries are more British than Indian too :P
[13:34] <bigcalm> Hehe, good point
[13:34] <bigcalm> Is it beer o'clock yet?
[13:35] <brobostigon> yes.
[13:35] <brobostigon> :D
[13:35] <bigcalm> \o/
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> http://isittimeforbeeryet.com/
[13:36] <brobostigon> lol.
[13:37] <bigcalm> Oh, the weekend
[13:37] <MartijnVdS> yeah, strange people ;)
[13:38] <bigcalm> After the lovely days of cool rain, it's gone back to being hot and muggy
[13:38] <bigcalm> Boo weather
[13:38] <brobostigon> more rian tmrw and saturday.
[13:38] <brobostigon> rain*
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yeah, 33°C here today
[13:40] <brobostigon> 28c right now.
[13:44] <dwatkins> nice and cool here in Edinburgh, a little rain but hopefully not enough to make the canal path dangerous on the way home.
[13:45] <davmor2> nice and cool in my airconed home office :)
[13:45] <mgdm> it was chucking it down earlier, now it's merely drizzling here in Glasgow
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: best weather you've had all year?
[13:54] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: No, we had about a month of mid-to-late twenties and clear skies until today
[13:59] <MooDoo> it's boiling here
[14:00] <Laney> yeah isn't it just
[14:00] <Laney> like 30°
[14:00] <MooDoo> .weather nottingham
[14:01] <MooDoo> @weather
[14:01] <MooDoo> rats you don't have that bot here lol
[14:01] <MooDoo> 29.4 in nottingham
[14:04] <arc__> hello i need some help in ubuntu
[14:05] <MooDoo> !ask
[14:05] <arc__> ok here it is i need to make a win xp usb in ubuntu
[14:05] <arc__> my dvd drive is dead
[14:06] <MooDoo> not with you....you need to make a win xp boot usb stick?
[14:07] <MooDoo> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/10/create-bootable-windows-7-usb-drive.html
[14:07] <MooDoo> this might be better
[14:07] <MooDoo> http://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/winusb-create-bootable-windows-installer-usb-in-ubuntu-linux/
[14:08] <arc__> ok i will have a look
[14:09] <dwatkins> neat, didn't know you could do that, MooDoo
[14:10] <arc__> how do i get the latest unetbootin
[14:11] <arc__> via terminal
[14:11] <neuro> http://securityreactions.tumblr.com/post/56784044470/script-kiddie-tries-to-crack-a-system-while-the
[14:17] <arc__> ok i have upgareded it
[14:18] <MooDoo> arc__: antother better one I think - http://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/winusb-create-bootable-windows-installer-usb-in-ubuntu-linux/
[14:18] <arc__> do you guys know of any other useful related tools
[14:18] <mgdm> neuro: heh
[14:19] <arc__> it is the same one as before MooDoo
[14:19] <MooDoo> oh doh! lol
[14:19] <dwatkins> what Ubuntu version are you running, arc__?
[14:20] <arc__> 12.04.1
[14:20] <arc__> lst
[14:20] <arc__> lts
[14:21] <arc__> i am so gullable
[14:21] <arc__> i am so gullible (spelling)
[14:22] <dwatkins> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/unetbootin - highest version for Precise seems to be 565-3, and it's what installs on my server which runs Precise.
[14:22] <dwatkins> Precise=12.04
[14:23] <arc__> i have tried using it to make a xp usb but it does not work
[14:24] <dwatkins> what kind of error do you get, arc__ ?
[14:24] <dwatkins> also, which procedure did you follow? The first two links are for Windows 7 (or Vista)
[14:24] <neuro> 20ºC here, suckers, hahaha
[14:25] <neuro> i may have to put a jumper on soon!
[14:25] <arc__> it has only one boot option and it  is Default and that just goes back to the boot loader
[14:25] <davmor2> neuro: I can have it as low as 14 I think,  but am curently at a very pleasant 25 :)
[14:25] <neuro> aircon?
[14:26] <davmor2> neuro: yeap
[14:26] <arc__> I am now trying  WinUSB
[14:26] <neuro> *envy*
[14:26] <dwatkins> arc__: I don't know it's even possible to boot XP from CD without using 3rd party software.
[14:26] <arc__> i have the .iso
[14:26] <davmor2> neuro: in my home office :)
[14:26] <dwatkins> sorry, I mean boot from USB
[14:26] <dwatkins> having the ISO might not be enough, sadly
[14:26] <arc__> i have done it in xp before
[14:26] <neuro> davmor2: $envy++
[14:27] <arc__> it makes the install really fast
[14:27] <neuro> i hope we're not discussing using pirated software in here ...
[14:27] <arc__> nope my copy of my real xp disk for my own use
[14:27] <arc__> only !
[14:28] <arc__> apple lets you copy your os disk once for a backup
[14:28] <neuro> you bought a retail copy of XP?
[14:28] <davmor2> neuro: I got it for our old flat the one summer when we were melting it was that hot.  So got it pretty cheap, and it works a charm :)
[14:28] <arc__> yes long a ago
[14:28] <neuro> davmor2: i may look into that for next summer if it ends up being anything like this one
[14:28] <neuro> that's the one thing i miss working from home, not having a nice climate controlled office to work in
[14:28] <davmor2> neuro: no don't look into in the winter when they are silly money :0
[14:29] <davmor2> :)
[14:29] <neuro> well that and the free tea/coffee/fizzy pop
[14:29] <neuro> davmor2: yeah that's what i meant ;)
[14:29] <arc__> thought MS should make a open sourced copy of xp the best windows's os ever
[14:29]  * neuro giggles
[14:29] <neuro> XP?
[14:29] <neuro> Best?
[14:29] <popey> i should get my air con thing out
[14:30] <arc__> It is the best after Ubuntu
[14:30] <neuro> popey: you just keep your thing to yourse... oh air con thing, OK
[14:30] <neuro> XP was a total mess
[14:30] <arc__> no
[14:30] <davmor2> arc__: I think you'll find Ubuntu isn't made by microsoft ;)
[14:30] <arc__> vista was a total mess
[14:30] <neuro> awful drivers, terrible default UI
[14:30] <arc__> I know that davmor2
[14:31] <neuro> XP is probably more responsible for the rise of Ubuntu, Fedora, etc than anything else
[14:32] <neuro> Windows 2000 and Windows 7 are the only really good OSes Microsoft have released in the last 15 years
[14:32] <neuro> and I use the term "good" rather loosely
[14:32] <arc__> Win 2000 don't make me laugh
[14:32] <neuro> since OS X and any decent Linux distro will whip Window's hide even on their worst days
[14:32] <arc__> OSX don't make me laugh
[14:33] <arc__> Win 7 is ok
[14:33] <neuro> i knew there was a reason i'd stopped talking to this guy
[14:33] <neuro> go on, please do share your insights as to why Windows 2000 and OS X won't make you laugh
[14:33] <arc__> this guy has a nick name
[14:34] <neuro> i'm genuinely interested
[14:34] <neuro> given what I presume are your years of professional experience in the IT field
[14:35] <arc__> OSX had no classic enviroment support to run old programs that i loved to use
[14:35] <neuro> yes it did
[14:35] <arc__> Like the Mac G5
[14:35] <dwatkins> It did, arc__ - they stopped supporting the ancient "Classic" envirnment two versions ago, though.
[14:35] <neuro> until Apple decided it was not commercially viable to continue supporting classic apps
[14:35] <dwatkins> as neuro says
[14:35] <arc__> NO 10.5.8 did not
[14:36] <neuro> the same way as Apple dropped support for PPC OS X apps
[14:36] <neuro> 10.5 might not have
[14:36] <neuro> but that's not what you said
[14:36] <dwatkins> 10.5.8 did not what?
[14:36] <arc__> NO the Classic enviro was not supported on the G5 all together
[14:36] <dwatkins> and on what architecture?
[14:36] <arc__> PPC
[14:36] <arc__> The G5 Only PPC
[14:37] <neuro> i think what you're trying to say is that you couldn't buy a G5 with classic preinstalled
[14:37] <arc__>  No i have tried alot i have 2 G5's
[14:37] <neuro> anyway, most mac users desperate to run classic apps just install sheepshaver
[14:38] <dwatkins> Classic is PPC, if I understand correctly, so the G5 supports PPC natively, I assume.
[14:38] <neuro> Apple routinely deprecate support for earlier platforms, they have a policy of looking forward rather than looking back
[14:38] <neuro> dwatkins: G5 was the last PowerPC CPU Apple used
[14:39] <arc__> But the best PPC Ever made
[14:39] <dwatkins> probably, since it was the last ;)
[14:39] <neuro> probably the most powerful and full featured PowerPC based Mac ever released, sure
[14:40] <neuro> but the G5 has been outclassed by more recent PPC CPUs
[14:40] <neuro> e.g. Cell
[14:40] <dwatkins> The SGI Tezro was the most powerful MIPS-based machine they made, but it was also the last.
[14:40]  * neuro waves at the PS3 and Xbox 360
[14:40] <arc__> Some programs resently supported ppc with universal binary
[14:40] <dwatkins> yes, universal was useful for the transition.
[14:40] <ormiret> does IBM still make PPC servers?
[14:41] <neuro> they still make PowerPC CPUs, yeah
[14:41] <neuro> mostly for SoC stuff
[14:41] <neuro> not sure about servers any more
[14:41] <arc__> Yes ps3 and the 360 have ppc cpu's but they where not computers
[14:41] <neuro> depends on your definition of "computer"
[14:41] <neuro> :)
[14:42] <arc__> how do you define it then
[14:42] <waveform> ormiret, yup - the pSeries (servers) and zSeries (mainframes) both use power arch
[14:42] <neuro> an electronic device with a central microprocessor, random access memory, storage and input/output ports
[14:42] <arc__> i need to reboot to install the epic MS OS XP PRO SP3
[14:42] <neuro> waveform: still? jeez
[14:43] <neuro> there are PowerPCs running the three Mars rovers :)
[14:43] <dwatkins> well if it's robust, why not? :)
[14:43] <neuro> totally
[14:44] <arc__> Thinking about OSX it is cheaper to install then any MS OS
[14:44] <neuro> curiosity is using a hardened 750, I think
[14:44] <dwatkins> arc__: are you just trolling, or do you have a point to make, please?
[14:44] <waveform> neuro, yeah - they even sell a few now and then :)
[14:44] <neuro> aha, was right
[14:44] <neuro> BAE make them
[14:44] <dwatkins> There are merits and disadvantages to each operating system, and everyone has different opinions.
[14:44] <neuro> RAD750
[14:45] <arc__> Thanz for the info for the WinUSB program
[14:45] <arc__> dwatkins:Yeah you are right
[14:45] <neuro> this thing is a beast
[14:45] <neuro> "can withstand 100,000 rads"
[14:46] <neuro> $200K cost stock for the CPU and mobo
[14:46] <neuro> plus or minus variances for customer requirements and quantities ordered
[14:46] <neuro> MRO and LRO use them too
[14:46] <arc__> My argument for Mac's got me a A*
[14:47] <neuro> argument *for*?
[14:47] <arc__> Why Mac's are bad
[14:47] <neuro> that's not "for", that's "against"
[14:47] <neuro> and there's no apostrophe in plurals
[14:47] <neuro> <- grammar geek
[14:48] <davmor2> Argument overruled F
[14:48] <neuro> lol
[14:48] <arc__> my fake statistics 1 in 3 people make the fatal decision of buying a Mac
[14:49] <neuro> wut?
[14:49] <arc__> Any they are fired because they can't use Windows programs
[14:49] <neuro> what are you talking about?
[14:50] <popey> FATAL?
[14:50] <mgdm> I don't need or want any Windows programs to do my job \o/
[14:50] <neuro> mgdm: \m/
[14:50]  * neuro glares at vSphere
[14:50] <arc__> you people are slow
[14:50] <neuro> ah, the insults begin
[14:50] <mgdm> (This message brought to you by tmux, mosh, irssi, and Mac OS X)
[14:51] <neuro> tmux?
[14:51] <mgdm> (oh, and Ubuntu)
[14:51]  * neuro googles
[14:51] <neuro> nice save
[14:51] <arc__> But the Mac G5 is a good editing rig
[14:51] <mgdm> neuro: like screen but moar better
[14:51] <neuro> woah
[14:51] <arc__> moar ?
[14:51] <neuro> interesting
[14:51] <mgdm> neuro: also the integration with iTerm2 is pretty neat
[14:51] <neuro> i really really really should use iTerm 2
[14:52] <neuro> but i'm still stuck in stock Terminal.app land
[14:52] <mgdm> neuro: so you can have iTerm2 have split windows that are actually tmux panes underneath
[14:52] <neuro> i have 3 windows open right now, 5 tabs each
[14:52] <MattJ> mgdm, off the top of your head, do you know how to get the Ctrl-a,Ctrl-a behaviour in tmux?
[14:52] <neuro> i'm an idiot
[14:52] <neuro> hehe :)
[14:52] <mgdm> and detach and reattach and all that
[14:52] <neuro> MattJ: wouldn't that just be a screen-ism?
[14:52] <neuro> for compatibility and all taht?
[14:52] <mgdm> MattJ: As in remap Ctrl-b to Ctrl-a? Or have Ctrl-a send an actual Ctrl-a?
[14:53] <MattJ> mgdm, nope, in screen it toggles between the current and previous window
[14:53] <mgdm> ahhh
[14:53] <mgdm> Afraid not
[14:53] <MattJ> or is there an equivalent easier shortcut in tmux that I haven't found?
[14:53] <MattJ> :(
[14:53] <popey> i use byobu
[14:53] <popey> which uses tmux now
[14:53] <arc__> WinUSB failed Bootmgr is missing
[14:53] <popey> and uses the same keyboard shortcuts as screen
[14:53] <MattJ> popey, since when?
[14:54] <popey> after 12.04
[14:54] <MattJ> Inclusive?
[14:54] <davmor2> MattJ: set the preferred to tmux
[14:54] <popey> thats not what after means ☻
[14:54] <mgdm> MattJ: http://superuser.com/questions/429558/how-to-switch-between-two-latest-windows-in-tmux
[14:54] <MattJ> popey, just checking :)
[14:54] <MattJ> Now I feel guilty for making someone google for me
[14:54] <popey> well, my vps still uses screen and thats 12.04
[14:55] <MattJ> mgdm, excellent, thanks :)
[14:55] <davmor2> popey: you can set the default to be tmux,  currently it installs and runs screen you change the backend let me see if I remember how
[14:55] <davmor2> MattJ: ^ too
[14:55] <popey> i am fine with screen
[14:56] <mgdm> On a related topic, I'm not quite sure if I've got across how cool mosh is
[14:56] <MattJ> I work with someone who won't use byobu specifically because it doesn't use tmux, so this is useful
[14:56] <popey> heh
[14:56] <MattJ> mgdm, I'm concerned about security :/
[14:56] <popey> i like mosh too
[14:56] <davmor2> MattJ, popey: byobu-select-backend select tmux restart the session
[14:56] <popey> security of mosh?
[14:56] <MattJ> Yes
[14:57] <MattJ> davmor2, thanks!
[14:57] <popey> its ssh underneath
[14:57] <mgdm> well... it is to start with, but the communication after that is something else, isn't it?
[14:57] <davmor2> popey: mosh to me means loud music and banging head so it would be secure whose gonna mess with that ;)
[14:58] <mgdm> Anyway - I use it to hop to my VM to use IRC - I've not installed it on anything production yet
[15:02] <daftykins> what's different about it over SSH?
[15:05] <popey> it's more resilient to crappy connections
[15:05] <neuro> mgdm: i need to sort my tabs out: http://bit.ly/1chvf17 :)
[15:05] <popey> so ideal for mobile / 3g
[15:05] <popey> and crap wifi
[15:06] <mgdm> You can use your laptop somewhere on wifi, close it, go home, open it again on different wifi and have your connections resume
[15:06] <popey> yeah, thats nice too
[15:06] <daftykins> neuro: lmao
[15:07] <neuro> i assume you're laughing at my chrome tabs ;)
[15:08] <mgdm> neuro: holy moly
[15:08] <neuro> aye :)
[15:08] <bigcalm> I'm wondering what the background image is
[15:08] <dwatkins> neuro: that's quite impressive; I try to keep at least my icons visible - I use CloudTab to save them all ocvcasionally, in case I lose any/all my tabs.
[15:09] <neuro> bigcalm: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sorio1q5fx7trlv/%5Benterprise%5D%20Kate%20Beckinsale.jpg
[15:09] <neuro> dwatkins: yeah, i like the idea of seeing the icons too
[15:09] <dwatkins> thankfully safe for work
[15:09] <neuro> doesn't always work like that!
[15:09] <bigcalm> Oh
[15:09] <bigcalm> Nice eyes
[15:10] <dwatkins> neuro: yeah, sometimes they just go crazy, yeah
[15:11] <neuro> i may be migrating wallpaper from kate beckinsale to olivia wilde at some point
[15:11] <neuro> need to properly plan out the transition
[15:12] <daftykins> ol' stick insect
[15:12] <daftykins> women as wallpapers - so wrong
[15:12] <bigcalm> Variety takes care of background for me. Right now it's http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1666212
[15:12] <neuro> it's my only vice
[15:12] <neuro> well, that and Hell's Kitchen
[15:13] <popey> \o/ variety
[15:13] <popey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/40645538@N00/3887481731 is my current wallpaper
[15:13] <popey> completely random
[15:14] <dwatkins> mine is still the TARDIS in a forest: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2ac0yHvvu1rrm5udo1_500.jpg
[15:14]  * mgdm likes simpledesktops.com
[15:15] <neuro> bigcalm: you have made a new friend today, by linking to wallbase ;)
[15:15] <bigcalm> Hehe
[15:15] <dwatkins> I'm a little disappointed when I look on wallbase that it doesn't give credit to the original artist.
[15:15] <daftykins> hrmm you can't browse by resolution can you
[15:15] <daftykins> boooo
[15:16] <daftykins> i like grabbing images that work across my twin screens
[15:16] <daftykins> hence interfacelift.com was my old fave
[15:16] <bigcalm> I would love to use some of my old wallpapers, but I don't have the right monitors any more: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/sets/72057594070877691/
[15:16] <neuro> HOLY MOTHER OF GOD
[15:16] <neuro> ok, can't link to THAT
[15:16] <neuro> woof
[15:16] <neuro> sorry
[15:17] <daftykins> down boy!
[15:17] <bigcalm> Heh
[15:17] <neuro> i clicked on "sketchy" purity
[15:17] <daftykins> 3840x1200 is my target here
[15:17] <bigcalm> neuro: I'm sure you could paste it to #lugradio :)
[15:18] <neuro> maybe i will and maybe i won't
[15:18] <daftykins> http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/D47cd523/03320_craterlake_3840x1200.jpg
[15:18] <daftykins> there's a nice one
[15:19] <neuro> looks a bit ... oversaturated?
[15:19] <daftykins> yeah
[15:19] <daftykins> also the main point of the image is a little island inside said lake, which is cropped in that view XD
[15:20] <bigcalm> Over exposed is what I'd say
[15:20] <bigcalm> Nice otherwise
[15:22] <daftykins> my we are a judgmental lot
[15:22] <bigcalm> Hehe, sorry
[15:22] <bigcalm> I like photography
[15:22] <bigcalm> One could tweak the levels
[15:36] <mungbean> still no $600 phones?
[15:37] <popey> they were on day 1
[15:38] <mungbean> and look how popular they were...
[15:53] <diddledan> hmm, still only on 7.76m
[15:55] <neuro> the slowdown continueth
[15:59] <neuro> they're $3m off the required pace now :(
[15:59] <mgdm> it's looking a bit asymptotic, eh :/
[15:59] <neuro> hmm
[15:59] <neuro> t-shirts and free lastpass premium subs now
[16:03] <neuro> the lastpass sub thing, fair enough
[16:04] <neuro> that's a cost that can be potentially borne by lastpass as they may gain customers in may 2015 from people happy to pay to continue their subs
[16:04] <neuro> but the t-shirts are stupid
[16:04] <neuro> "The Ubuntu Edge is an exclusive production run, available only through Indiegogo. All of the funding we receive goes directly towards producing the device for expected delivery in May 2014."
[16:05] <neuro> except for the money we'll need to use to make t-shirts
[16:09] <neuro> this has a nice graph showing the pledge trough, which the edge is firmly in right now
[16:09] <neuro> http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/trends-in-pricing-and-duration
[16:16] <diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/31/prism_put_in_the_shade_by_leak_about_even_more_powerful_snoop_tool/
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: also, http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/08/gone-in-30-seconds-new-attack-plucks-secrets-from-https-protected-pages/
[16:20] <Songtao> Hi guys, maybe this is not right channel to ask, but everyone know about soap server request/response prefix ? how to change from soap-env to soap ? like the request or response I get always use <soap-env:body> but I want to change it to <soap:body>.  there is no soap irc channel. any help?
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> Songtao: SOAP is a very well-defined protocol :)
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> Songtao: which language are you using? You should probably use a library to decode it
[16:21] <Songtao> php
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> http://php.net/manual/en/book.soap.php
[16:22] <bigcalm> +1
[16:22] <bigcalm> I wouldn't want to deal with soap at a raw level
[16:22] <Songtao> MartijinVds, thanks for your reply, I use php-soap write a soap server, but the name prefix always like <soap-env:body>, is there any way I can change it to <soap:body>
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> Songtao: yes, that's plain XML -- use a different xmlns
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> Songtao: It's probably best to learn more about XML and SOAP basics first, before writing your own SOAP server :)
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> Songtao: SOAP server libraries already exist, it's often better to use those.
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> (actually, it's almsot always better to use an existing library)
[16:28] <Songtao> I am, I am using php-soap. I difined
[16:28] <Songtao>         xmlns:wsoap='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/soap/'
[16:28] <Songtao>         xmlns:soap='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/'
[16:29] <Songtao> but I do not know why, the request or the response, auto change it to  xmlns:soap-env='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/'
[16:29] <daftykins> Songtao: you just got assistance and yet you're repeating your question? is something wrong?
[16:29] <Songtao> I mean I defined in the server.wsdl file
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> Songtao: if you're using a proper XML parser and generator, the namespace bit does not matter.
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> Songtao: it could be "fnskjfsndkfn" and it would still work just fine
[16:30] <Songtao> MartijinVds, thanks for your help.
[16:31] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: bingo!
[16:32] <diddledan> fnskjfsndkfn was just what I needed
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: a name for your next kid?
[16:33] <diddledan> no, my kid is going to follow the xkcd and be called "'; DROP ALL tables FROM students;"
[16:33] <daftykins> little billy tables
[16:33] <daftykins> ;D
[16:33] <diddledan> that's the one :-p
[16:33] <daftykins> that one did amuse
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: new password then?
[16:33] <diddledan> better billy tables than billy no-mates
[16:34] <neuro> bobby tables
[16:34] <popey> also Null
[16:34] <daftykins> close enough
[16:34] <popey> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4456438/how-can-i-pass-the-string-null-through-wsdl-soap-from-as3-to-coldfusion-web?rq=1
[16:34] <neuro> :)
[16:34] <popey> "We have an employee whose last name is Null"
[16:35] <daftykins> hrmm what does it mean when google results are all purple and dull as if you've visited them all before but clearly haven't 0o
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> popey: cool :)
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: you need to try reddit.com/new instead ;)
[16:35] <daftykins> ?
[16:36] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: oh that's where redditors go if all links on the home page are purple :)
[16:36] <popey> ☻
[16:36] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: i'll never get that minute of my life back :(
[16:37] <diddledan> daftykins: just get on a plane and travel fast enough that when you get back everyone else is 1 minute older than you and bob's your uncle
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> bobby tables?
[16:37] <diddledan> yeah, him
[16:37] <daftykins> you'd have to superman it to be younger than bobby tables
[16:40] <neuro> MartijnVdS: http://xkcd.com/327/
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I know, I was referring to "bob's your uncle"
[16:40] <neuro> bob's your mother's brother
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> or your father's
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> you could also expand "bob" to "robert"
[16:41] <neuro> mine sounds better, onomatopoeiatically speaking
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> robert's your mother's brother
[16:42] <diddledan> I'm my brother's father's son
[16:42] <neuro> "Her daughter is named Help I'm trapped in a driver's license factory."
[16:42] <neuro> hehe
[16:43] <diddledan> lol
[16:43] <neuro> xkcd alt tags ftw
[17:29] <DJones> Ok, BT Broadband support have just won the advice of decade award, Dad was on the phone to them trying to get a fault diagnosed, they said have you run the antivirus software recently to rule that out, its not installed, ok install it, I'm on a Ubuntu laptop, Oh.. We know about that, you can install the antivirus software using wine..........
[17:37] <webpigeon> x.x
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[17:39] <diddledan> besides the stupidity of the request, wine is very unlikely able to run an av package designed for windows because it doesn't provide the kernel-level hooks
[17:53] <DJones> diddledan: Thats putting it politely :)
[17:53] <diddledan> :-)
[18:06] <daftykins> DJones: sounds great
[18:06] <daftykins> i don't even think it would've been safe to say Linux was in use 'cause they could probably pull one of their classic "sorry that's not supported on this service" lines
[18:10] <bubu> hey guys, I have a file like a,b,c,d,e,f etc. How can I create a new line per item and delete commas?
[18:10] <bubu> so just a long column
[18:10] <DJones> daftykins: They already know it is, last time he had a problem I ended up ringing for him & went through it with BT, in the end I pointed out that I couldn't connect with an android phone and windows phone and ended up getting put through to supervisor, and then to the manager above them
[18:11] <bubu> nvm got it :P
[18:11] <popey> bubu: cat file | tr , \n
[18:11] <bubu> done in ruby!
[18:11] <popey> haha
[18:11] <bubu> im an ops guy and my ruby is now better than my bash
[18:11] <bubu> lol
[18:11] <popey> ☻
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> bubu: how's your Perl?
[18:12] <bubu> meh, non existant
[18:12] <bubu> work in a ruby house though
[18:12] <daftykins> DJones: were they even any better? :)
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> not a true ops guy :P
[18:12] <bubu> hah
[18:12] <bubu> I've made my own graphite dashboards!
[18:12] <bubu> < ops guy
[18:12] <bubu> :]
[18:13] <daftykins> drawing in pencil on paper doesn't count!
[18:13] <bubu> pfft
[18:13] <bubu> :p
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: hardcore ops 8-)
[18:13] <DJones> daftykins: Eventually at the manager, probably spent an hour talking to him, he said he ran freebsd at home
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> bubu: I'm a programmer at a perl shop, and our ops people know as much ruby as perl (because puppet)
[18:13] <ali1234> isn't ruby just a dialect of perl anyway?
[18:14] <daftykins> DJones: \o/ what was the actual issue? router/line sync troubles? :D
[18:14] <DJones> daftykins: Dad got a replacement homehub sent out in about 2 days
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's the evil child of python, perl and php
[18:14] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure ruby has nothing at all to do with php
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: its unicode support
[18:14] <DJones> daftykins: Faulty router, didn't work out what the fault was, they just replaced it
[18:14] <ali1234> what about it?
[18:14] <daftykins> DJones: ah-har
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's almost as good as PHP's unicode support
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: unless they fixed that since I last looked
[18:15] <ali1234> that's like saying runy's syntax is almost as "good" as perl's
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: but it is :)
[18:16] <bubu> MartijnVdS: < chef
[18:16] <bubu> so it's all ruby
[18:16] <bubu> ruby has so many rubyisms though, cant think of anything you can do in perl that cant in ruby
[18:16] <bubu> but just a bit prettier ;)
[18:16] <ali1234> in ruby you can't redefine the entire language to be whatever you want
[18:17] <bubu> you dont have to.
[18:17] <ali1234> you don't have to in any language
[18:17] <ali1234> perl programmers just enjoy being obscure
[18:17] <bubu> hah
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: hey at least it's not Perl 6
[18:17] <popey> at our lug someone gave a talk about perl, it was video'ed and put online, and was the most popular video we'd ever made
[18:18] <daftykins> due to anything specific?
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: the Perl community has some great speakers :)
[18:18] <popey> "Introduction to Perl: The friendly programming language"
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: I've been to several YAPC::Europes
[18:18] <ali1234> hahahAHAHAhahHAH
[18:18] <popey> you'll find it via google
[18:18] <popey> blimey, 2006
[18:18] <popey> time flies
[18:19] <daftykins> O_O
[18:19] <diddledan> why do perl guys love the Yet Another X Y Z style of naming?
[18:19] <bubu> perl is a great language
[18:19] <diddledan> YAML, anyone?
[18:19] <bubu> just got into development and ruby is all I need
[18:19] <bubu> (at the mo anyway)
[18:19] <ali1234> perl is the worst language except for the ones which were specifically designed to be as bad as possible
[18:19] <diddledan> YAST (any ex-suse users?)
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> *shudde*
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> r
[18:19] <diddledan> ali1234: whitespace
[18:20] <ali1234> "what is whitespace" - perl programmer
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I don't know.. the community has been getting better at writing readable/maintainable code in the last few years
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's not Matt's Script Archive anymore
[18:20] <diddledan> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
[18:21] <ali1234> diddledan: yeah, that's a joke language, like intercal and bf
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: https://metacpan.org/module/Acme::Bleach (the "Acme::" namespace is for non-serious/play modules)
[18:21] <ali1234> i don't count those when i say perl is the worst
[18:21] <daftykins> popey: he says Perl 6 is going to arrive when Duke Nukem Forever and Windows Vista do!
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: have you written shell scripts?
[18:21] <ali1234> yes
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I'd argue sh is worse than perl
[18:22] <ali1234> i would argue it's slightly better
[18:22] <ali1234> because unlike perl, it doesn't have the whole concept of "it's a really good idea to redefine large parts of the language as you see fit in every program"
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Uh.. because that's not how most perl programs I know work?
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I haven't redefined any chunk of the language in a serious project?
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: can you give an example?
[18:24] <ali1234> yes
[18:24] <ali1234> if you want to have functions in your program that take more than one argument, you have to redefine the language
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: oh?
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: sub foo { my ($bar, $baz) = @_; }
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> done!
[18:24] <ali1234> that is taking one argument
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> no.. you call that as: foo(1, 2);
[18:25] <ali1234> it's still taking one argument
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I count two?
[18:25] <diddledan> I think it's a case that you're both correct
[18:25] <diddledan> you call it with two args, but it passes one arg
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: well, it passes one list of arguments
[18:25] <ali1234> bingo
[18:26] <diddledan> o_O http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aerocool-Strike-X-Frame-E-ATX-0-7mm/dp/B005ZV3MBS/ref=sr_1_35?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1375381509&sr=1-35&keywords=gaming+pc+cases
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> but that's just how you call things.. I don't see what's wrong with it
[18:26] <diddledan> someone just sent me that link in a different network
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> Everyone seems to be fine with it
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: whoa
[18:26] <ali1234> i'm not
[18:27] <daftykins> diddledan: seems more like a benchmarker's testbed
[18:28] <ali1234> further more while your example looks like a standard function definition to someone unfamiliar with perl, it's not...
[18:28] <ali1234> it's actually part of the code
[18:28] <ali1234> the function can later on do other things with @_
[18:28] <ali1234> this is awful
[18:28] <ali1234> there's no way to see the call signature of a function
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's flexible.
[18:29] <ali1234> unless you redefine the language so that there is
[18:29] <ali1234> but then it's not really perl any more
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: except it is, because you're using published APIs to do it
[18:30] <ali1234> yeah
[18:30] <ali1234> but the problem is perl is so flexible you can turn it into any other language you want
[18:30] <ali1234> including some really stupid ones, and some one that already exist
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: though source filters (the old old way to achieve that) are frowned upon
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: new ones hack the op tree
[18:31] <diddledan> can I make php in it :-p
[18:31] <ali1234> i don't see why anyone would want this
[18:31] <ali1234> just make one language that is actually good
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> https://metacpan.org/module/MooseX::Declare
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: \o/
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's a consensus thing, about which modules are "good".
[18:32] <ali1234> the answer is "none of them, because they are all written in perl"
[18:32] <diddledan> I wonder if native-perl-based execution of php syntax through redefining the language would be faster than php itself?
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: now you're just being harsh for no reason :)
[18:33] <ali1234> diddledan: a perl developer claimed that the perl interpreter could run python faster than python, he turned out to be wrong
[18:33] <daftykins> he does that
[18:33] <diddledan> does perl do JIT these days, or is it still entirely interpreted?
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: People still write software in the language, and the community around it is great.
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: At least it's not PHP :P
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: it does what it's done for ages: a "compile" run at the start, then some statements ("require") that load more code, trigger a compile of that code before execution
[18:34] <ali1234> php is better than perl, because in php there's one bad way to do everything, instead of an unlimted number of bad ways
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: There's more than one way to mess up PHP, believe me.
[18:35] <ali1234> but you have to try pretty hard to invent new ones
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> also.. it always expecting to be on the web is a bit annoying
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> even if you run the command-line version
[18:35] <ali1234> yeah that is weird
[18:35] <ali1234> i'll give you that one
[18:35] <diddledan> ali1234: what's your poison of choice? caveat: I work in PHP for my living but I'm always open to new ideas
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> "We're general-purpose now. Ish."
[18:36] <ali1234> diddledan: python
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> Python++
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Old PEP-8 or new PEP-8?
[18:36] <diddledan> python seems to have a very large momentum
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> http://hg.python.org/peps/rev/fb24c80e9afb
[18:36] <ali1234> i dunno, what's the difference?
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ^
[18:36] <diddledan> my impression is I should learn it even if just to say me too
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: DO IT DO IT :P
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's a very clean language
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> but the first few projects you publish will be shouted at for not being pythonic enough
[18:37] <ali1234> i have pretty much switched to always indenting with spaces now
[18:37] <diddledan> eww
[18:37] <diddledan> tabs ftw
[18:38] <ali1234> not just python, everything
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: I guess you're one of those people who put the milk in before the tea as well?
[18:38] <ali1234> if you have to put milk in tea, you should put it in first
[18:38] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: how'd you guess?!
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: heathen!
[18:38] <ali1234> unless you like tea with little white lumps in it
[18:38] <diddledan> ali1234: AMEN!
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> but.. you can't see how strong the tea is if you put the milk in first
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> Also, Douglas Adams is right: http://h2g2.com/approved_entry/A61345
[18:39] <daftykins> give me a black coffee any day
[18:40] <daftykins> my grandparents used to boil water in the morning, make tea then put it in a thermos
[18:40] <ali1234> anyway, i don;t really believe in most of these rules
[18:40] <daftykins> and still be drinking the same first boil come the evening
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: *shudder*
[18:40] <daftykins> tight does not even begin to describe it
[18:40] <ali1234> particularly i don't follow the rules about not lining up similar code lines
[18:40] <ali1234> and i never ever follow the 80 column rule
[18:42] <neuro> well ...
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: at least stick to 132 then
[18:43] <ali1234> why?
[18:43] <ali1234> stop editing code on a vt100
[18:43] <popey> haha
[18:43] <diddledan> lol @ "in England it is generally considered socially incorrect to know stuff or think about things. It's worth bearing this in mind when visiting."
[18:43] <popey> as an owner of a vt100...
[18:43] <popey> ☻
[18:44] <ali1234> you finally got one then?
[18:44] <daftykins> diddledan: i was just grinning at that bit ^_^
[18:44] <popey> yeah
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> let me see how long a line actually is on this 2560x1080 screen
[18:44] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: what font?
[18:44] <daftykins> size, dpi...
[18:44] <daftykins> ;)
[18:45] <diddledan> comic sans at 28pt
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: "Monospace 10", 96x96 (xdpyinfo)
[18:45] <diddledan> :-p
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: 70cm real width
[18:45] <diddledan> I've never worked out just what a pt actually happens to be
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> well maybe 68 because of bezel
[18:45] <daftykins> other than meaning 'point' ?
[18:45] <ali1234> i've got 211 columns with my default font here
[18:46] <diddledan> daftykins: exactly
[18:46] <ali1234> i've never needed more than that
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: how do I check easily?
[18:46] <MartijnVdS>   -geometry 311x32--4+24
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> xwininfo ftw
[18:46] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: write the numbers 12345678910111213
[18:46] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: open gedit, type until you reach the right edge, look at the bottom right of the window
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's 311
[18:46] <diddledan> then when you get to the end realise you made the mistake of not realising that 11 is two characters and not one
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> 21:9 baby
[18:47] <ali1234> yeah that's an interesting aspect ration
[18:47] <ali1234> 1920x1200 here
[18:47] <RaycisCharles> 21:9 is a god-awful aspect ratio.
[18:47] <RaycisCharles> It's unusable.
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: it's great to put an editor next to a web browser
[18:47] <RaycisCharles> Especially as 2560x1080 is a joke.
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> I like it.
[18:47] <RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS you can do that with a 16:9 monitor...
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: but it also fits the unity sidebar on 21:9
[18:48] <RaycisCharles> lol I forgot I was in #ubuntu-uk.
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: also, I like more horizontal space without the second screen (and the "gap" in between)
[18:48] <daftykins> RaycisCharles: where else do things get like this :'(
[18:48] <RaycisCharles> Nowhere else on freenode is 21:9 taken seriously.
[18:48] <RaycisCharles> Maybe they're big in Holland?
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> they're the same size everywhere
[18:49] <daftykins> s/size/ratio/
[18:49] <diddledan> lol
[18:49] <daftykins> i own 16:10 displays on my desktop
[18:49] <diddledan> 16:10 is just plain nuts for video
[18:49] <daftykins> my old man calls 'widescreen' - 'shortscreen'
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> I had a 16:10 before
[18:50] <daftykins> diddledan: you get the best of both worlds, sensible height windows, then video with bars
[18:50] <RaycisCharles> Eh, I can live without letterboxing.
[18:50] <ali1234> 16:10 is perfect for watching 16:9 video on a desktop environment where the damn panels just won't go away (unity)
[18:50] <RaycisCharles> I have a 27" 2560x1440 monitor.
[18:50] <RaycisCharles> 16:9
[18:50] <diddledan> 2.35:1 anamorphic :-p
[18:51] <RaycisCharles> 2.35:1 is just a really annoying aspect ratio notation.
[18:51] <daftykins> that's not what letterboxing is
[18:51] <diddledan> RaycisCharles: it's how they label it on DVD cases
[18:51] <RaycisCharles> Yes it is...
[18:51] <RaycisCharles> Don't tell me Mark Shuttleworth has redefined letterboxing?
[18:51] <daftykins> i wouldn't go by his doctrine
[18:51] <RaycisCharles> http://e2e.ti.com/resized-image.ashx/__size/550x0/__key/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files/100/8737.LetterBoxing_5F00_UseCases.png
[18:51] <daftykins> but no, just having bars when playing 16:9 on 16:10 != letterboxing
[18:52] <daftykins> but anywho, this topic is getting way out of hand
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> it is
[18:52] <RaycisCharles> What?
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> letterboxing = adding black bars
[18:52] <RaycisCharles> No it's not, I'm going to destroy your argument.
[18:52] <RaycisCharles> Films can be letterboxed twice.
[18:52] <daftykins> i must escape to pastures saner
[18:52] <RaycisCharles> Badly mastered films have a native letterbox and then are letterboxed within the media player.
[18:52] <RaycisCharles> Yeah way to hit and run - I was about to destroy you.
[18:53] <ali1234> like on youtube videos that were widescreen before youtube did widescreen
[18:53] <daftykins> that's a really terrible attitude you have toward conversation there
[18:53] <neuro> woah woah woah
[18:53]  * RaycisCharles throws daftykins across the room
[18:53] <neuro> i step away to finish a DS9 episode and come back to carnage
[18:53]  * RaycisCharles is pumped up
[18:53] <RaycisCharles> neuro, which episode?
[18:54] <neuro> uhhh the paper moon one
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> !coc | RaycisCharles
[18:54] <RaycisCharles> That's a terrible episode.
[18:54] <neuro> where nog gets over the loss of his leg
[18:54] <neuro> i quite enjoyed it
[18:54] <RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS, that's considered spam.
[18:54] <neuro> no, it's not
[18:54] <RaycisCharles> Oh, that one.
[18:54] <RaycisCharles> I thought it was the one where they're in the casino and waste time doing nothing.
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: no, it's considered a polite request
[18:55] <neuro> RaycisCharles: watch this to figure out why 21:9 is cool: https://vimeo.com/68830569
[18:55] <RaycisCharles> I find it hard to believe that Starfleet couldn't grow legs in the 24th century.
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: please stop bashing other people. If you disagree, you can point that out politely, and with arguments instead of shouting the loudest (which doesn't mean you're right, btw)
[18:55] <neuro> it's explained why in the episode where he actually loses his leg
[18:55] <RaycisCharles> I think they just wanted to give somebody a disability.
[18:55] <RaycisCharles> I know why he lost it.
[18:55] <neuro> but it's explained in dialogue why they can't just grow a new one
[18:56] <RaycisCharles> I'm saying that in the 24th century there'd be no such thing as disability.
[18:56] <RaycisCharles> Oh? I don't remember that.
[18:56] <neuro> well then
[18:56] <neuro> RAAR RAAR RAAR ... oh.
[18:56] <neuro> :)
[18:56] <RaycisCharles> Maybe losing his leg was just an allegory on the futility of war.
[18:56] <neuro> or an excuse to show how the war affects those on the ground
[18:56] <ali1234> they do grow him a new one or whatever. it's explained in the episode that the problem is entirely psychological
[18:57] <RaycisCharles> Oh yeah.
[18:57] <neuro> which is why he got an episode devoted to the topic
[18:57] <RaycisCharles> That's powerful stuff.
[18:57] <ali1234> it's not a great episode
[18:57] <RaycisCharles> DS9 had the best character arcs by a mile.
[18:57] <neuro> Ronald D. Moore, at your service
[18:57] <RaycisCharles> Well...none of the other Star Treks had any character arcs to speak of.
[18:57] <ali1234> true
[18:58] <neuro> not entirely true
[18:58] <ali1234> it only happened in DS9 because they were blatantly copying B5
[18:58] <RaycisCharles> Worf becomes lighter and ends up not looking like Predator crossed with a raccoon.
[18:58] <RaycisCharles> That's like the only significant change in TNG. I don't count Wesley Crusher's migration from rainbow pride uniform to red.
[18:58] <neuro> worf + kid
[18:59] <neuro> troi + commander
[18:59] <neuro> occasional dalliances of picard + beverley
[18:59] <RaycisCharles> Oh come on, those weren't character arcs.
[18:59] <ali1234> lolno
[18:59] <ali1234> none of that stuff ever went anywhere
[18:59] <neuro> worf + kid certainly was
[18:59] <RaycisCharles> No it wasn't.
[18:59] <RaycisCharles> That wasn't an arc...that was a "son hates dad" episode.
[18:59] <neuro> You're rather difficult to talk to, aren't you?
[19:00] <RaycisCharles> Well then, let's talk about something other than Star Trek.
[19:00] <neuro> to be fair, it was you who carried on the star trek talk after i simply mentioned where i'd been
[19:00] <RaycisCharles> I imagine there's quite an overlap between fans of Star Trek and fans of Debian downstreams.
[19:00] <neuro> geeks like star trek? THAT'S UNPOSSIBLE!
[19:01] <ali1234> ya know... voyager had more character development than TNG...
[19:01]  * neuro points to his federation starship naming convention ...
[19:01] <neuro> ali1234: what, seven's costume changes? :)
[19:01] <ali1234> no, not really
[19:01] <neuro> TWAS A JOKE, SIR!
[19:02] <neuro> tho the doctor had a pretty varying arc over the years
[19:02] <ali1234> the doctor mainly
[19:02] <neuro> the thing that always struck me as completely unreasonable was paris being field promoted to lieutenant, then being busted down to ensign, then repromoted
[19:02] <ali1234> pretty much entirely really
[19:02] <neuro> while poor harry was stuck being an ensign for the whole trip
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> neuro: instead of Kim?
[19:02] <ali1234> lol
[19:02] <neuro> MartijnVdS: exactly
[19:02] <ali1234> yeah well that's because janeway is crazy
[19:03]  * mgdm attempts to get his YouView box to see more than one mux
[19:03] <neuro> ugh
[19:03] <neuro> really?
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> neuro: great film, that vimeo one :)
[19:03] <neuro> MartijnVdS: innit?
[19:03] <neuro> i love movie geek stuff like that
[19:03] <mgdm> neuro: really?
[19:03] <neuro> mgdm: unlucky
[19:03] <neuro> what tx, black hill?
[19:03] <mgdm> uhm
[19:03] <mgdm> I think so
[19:03] <mgdm> 120 channels now, there we go
[19:04] <neuro> i get epic quality from black hill
[19:04] <neuro> even though my aerial is in the loft
[19:04] <mgdm> I think one of my HDMI cables is shielded about as well as the netting you get onions in
[19:04] <mgdm> because I swapped it and now it's fine
[19:04] <neuro> i always say uber expensive hdmi cables are a waste of time
[19:04] <ali1234> there are different types of hdmi cable
[19:04] <neuro> but Cheap McCheap cables are a waste of time
[19:05] <neuro> don't spend 500 quid but at the same time don't spend 2 quid
[19:05] <ali1234> the price doesn't seem to make a difference to whether they will work or not
[19:05] <mgdm> this wasn't Champion the Wonder Cable cheap, but it wasn't more expensive than about a tenner
[19:05] <ali1234> it's something to do with wether the cable has the right bits
[19:05] <neuro> CHAAAAAAAAAMPIOOOOOONNNN ... THE WOOOOOOOOOONDERRRRR CAAAAAAABLE!
[19:05] <neuro> i totally have that music in my head now
[19:05] <mgdm> :D
[19:06] <neuro> mgdm: and for that, i must kill you where you stand
[19:06]  * neuro worfs up
[19:06]  * mgdm gets down
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> jump up jump up & get down
[19:06] <neuro> lying on the floor will do you no good against my bat'leth!
[19:07] <mgdm> Anyone stepping to me you'll get burned
[19:07] <mgdm> 'cos I got lyrics and you ain't got none
[19:07] <mgdm> so if you come to battle bring a shotgun
[19:07] <mgdm> Shotgun > bat'leth
[19:07] <neuro> SoHvaD pagh vljatlh, Human!
[19:08] <neuro> i don't know what i'm doing
[19:08]  * mgdm watches neuro chop his own arm off
[19:08]  * neuro stops before pasting more quotes from Memory Alpha
[19:09] <neuro> yeah, that would be a strong possibility
[19:09] <neuro> although i could just grow one back, AM I RIGHT?!
[19:11] <mgdm> You're probably not right, no
[19:11] <neuro> :)
[19:17] <diddledan> good movie aspect ratio discussion that
[19:17] <neuro> lol, was it? :)
[19:17] <neuro> all i saw was rage :)
[19:17] <diddledan> no, I mean the video
[19:17] <neuro> oh right :)
[19:17] <neuro> yeah, that's why i linked to it!
[19:18] <diddledan> in here was nothing but "GRRR BRAINS"
[19:18] <neuro> GRRARRRR
[19:22] <diddledan> avatar (movie by james cameron) is going to have 3, count em, THREE sequels that have been planned for 2016, 17 and 18
[19:22] <neuro> noooooooooo
[19:22] <diddledan> that's a long time to wait
[19:23] <neuro> NOT LONG ENOUGH!
[19:23] <diddledan> didn't like dances with wolves.. in space?
[19:23] <neuro> some movies just don't need sequels
[19:23] <neuro> like, can you imagine if they tried to make a sequel to Blade Runne... oh
[19:24] <diddledan> all three movies are going to be filmed en-masses
[19:24] <diddledan> masse*
[19:24] <neuro> back-to-back is i believe the term you're looking for
[19:25] <diddledan> simultaneously is the  term in the article I'm reading
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> neuro: Yeah, it's a good thing they never made a sequel to The Matrix
[19:25] <diddledan> as opposed to 1..2..3.. it's 1..2..3..1..2..3..2..1..
[19:25] <neuro> simultaneously? wtf
[19:25] <neuro> cameron is off his had
[19:25] <neuro> s/had/head/
[19:25] <diddledan> yeah
[19:26] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: they're bound to revisit the matrix again at some point
[19:40] <dogmatic69> I just installed qt4 on 12.04 and it does not launch, any ideas?
[19:41] <dogmatic69> strace shows "recvfrom(11, 0x16bd624, 4096, 0, 0, 0)  = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)"
[19:41] <dogmatic69> loads of them, every couple seconds. and I even left it running for 1 hour + with no change
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what's fd 11? check /proc/<pid>/fd/11 (ls -l)
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: and/or lsof -p pid
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> the last one's easier
[19:45] <dogmatic69> where do i get pid?
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: ps probably
[19:45] <dogmatic69> ps qtcreator?
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no, ps ax -> look throuhg the list
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: or pgrep qtcreator
[19:46] <dogmatic69> two have <defunct>
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> those died and their parent never processed that
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> "ps fax" will show which is their parent
[19:47] <dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/400949056
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> qtcreator 11060 dogmatic69   11u  unix 0x0000000000000000      0t0    989281 socket
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> It's a UNIX domain socket
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> but to what.. no idea
[19:48] <dogmatic69> :(
[19:48] <dogmatic69> what is UNIX domain socket?
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: man 7 unix
[19:49] <dogmatic69> ah
[19:49] <dogmatic69> does that explain the <defunct>
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> no
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> it might explain why it's not receiving anything on that socket though
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> if it's expecting one of the children to write something to it
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> it'll never get anything
[20:07] <mgdm> neuro: I've built stuff for YouView but not actually used one in my own living room yet - it's pretty smooth, actually
[20:38] <HoT|2fC^> Some hosting companys are rude! I just got 3 Gameservers terminated I asked why they said were no longer hosting games any more LOL so I said ok so I just paid you £30 for another month of 3 doom3 gameservers.
[20:38] <HoT|2fC^> I then got a reply of sorry no refunds :/
[20:39] <HoT|2fC^> thats odd \o/
[20:47] <mgdm> that's probably illegal
[20:48] <daftykins> not if it's in agreed to terms
[20:48] <daftykins> also, surprising doom3 is still being run :)
[20:49] <zleap> doom 3 is good
[20:49] <zleap> scary though esp in a dark room with good speakers
[20:51] <daftykins> :)
[20:51] <daftykins> i remember that from release, yep
[21:02] <diddledan> right, saucy.. is mir default yet?
[21:02] <popey> no
[21:21] <dogmatic69> anyone got a beagle board black?
[21:42] <diddledan> ok, I'm being bitten by bug #1195509 :-(
[21:42] <diddledan> it dropped back to pure X11
[21:42] <diddledan> still usable as a system, but I wanted to try mir :-p
[21:44] <diddledan> http://ubuntu-edge.info/#total 3meelion short of target
[23:01] <songtao> hello