[02:00] <sak> taking freenode.net mobile
[04:26] <pitti> Good morning
[04:46] <TheDrums> Howdy.
[05:38] <smartboyhw> Hello Noskcaj how's the translation fixing with kirkland?
[05:46] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, good. I've fix the.pot file on Launchpad, the one in testdrive is now current and testdrive actually includes translations
[05:46] <Noskcaj> *fixed
[05:46] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, great:)
[05:46] <smartboyhw> Now we can enable translations for everybody:P
[05:47] <Noskcaj> yep. I've also fixed a stack of lintian warnings and made testdrive a debian "native" package
[05:49] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, wait. Why native?
[05:49] <smartboyhw> Give me a proper explanation plz.
[05:49] <Noskcaj> as in the debian/sources/format file say 3.0 (native) rather than 3.0 (quilt). This is becuse the debin folder is a stock part of testdrive
[05:51] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, OK.
[05:51] <smartboyhw> Has the code been merged in?
[05:52] <Noskcaj> half has, then kirkland went offline and i had school
[05:52] <Noskcaj> also, i'm part of the testdrive maintainers group now
[05:53] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, good job:)
[05:53] <Noskcaj> :)
[05:53] <smartboyhw> Heck, I'm too busy with Kubuntu here;P
[05:56] <Noskcaj> I've found time to finally maintain stuff in debian and to mod my PC. Although that's about all i've done
[05:57] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, well it's summer holidays, of course you have time....
[05:59] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, no it's not. It's winter and school is happening
[06:00] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, well "Winter" holidays for you I thought;P
[06:00] <smartboyhw> Anyways...
[06:00] <Noskcaj> FYI: holidays only go for two weeks here.
[06:00] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj: So, the Testdrive hackfest, when can you stay till?
[06:00] <Noskcaj> also, I GOT SPONSORED BY IceModz.com
[06:00] <Noskcaj> !!!
[06:00] <Noskcaj> :)
[06:01] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, I knew that, thank you...
[06:01] <smartboyhw> You publicly announced that on your blog, PLZZZZZZ
[06:01] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, where's the Testdrive Hackfest wiki page?
[06:01] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, ok. but the stuff is here now. and wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Testdrive/Hackfest
[06:04] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, I saw one bug talking about pae settings, you want that bug to be fixed?
[06:04] <smartboyhw> In Testdrive project I mean (forgotten the bug no.)
[06:05] <smartboyhw> If somebody is able to add netboot to the ISO testing list, I will really give him a thumbs up:P
[06:05] <smartboyhw> Since it's a different link entirely
[06:06] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, feel free to add more things to the to-do list. can you add both of those?
[06:07] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, both?
[06:07] <smartboyhw> netboot is in there already:P
[06:07] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, I want the Google+ Hangout on 14-15 UTC.
[06:07] <smartboyhw> Plz.
[06:07] <Noskcaj> ok, change it. I'm not going to be online then.
[06:08] <Noskcaj> maybe we finish at 1500 then?
[06:08] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, well no, I just don't want to do Hangouts when I'm about to sleep.
[06:08] <smartboyhw> I will sleep at 1600
[06:14] <Noskcaj> ok
[06:15] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, changed
[06:15] <Noskcaj> :)
[06:16] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, I'm now thinking about Parallels.
[06:17] <Noskcaj> If someone pulls that off...
[06:17] <smartboyhw> Andres will drop it, so I guess in the wiki page don't say "fix" it?
[06:17] <smartboyhw> I think it's rather difficult to....
[06:17] <smartboyhw> You know, fix
[06:19] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, it's better you post to Planet Ubuntu to promote the Testdrive Hackfest
[06:19] <smartboyhw> So we can include it in the coming UWN
[06:19] <smartboyhw> And ofc, tell everyone you are now one of the maintainers:P
[06:20] <smartboyhw> WT, you got 8580 karma in Launchpad!!?!?
[06:20] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, I'll leave parallels in the hackfest for if someone wants to make it work.
[06:20] <smartboyhw> I got 7682 only:(
[06:20] <Noskcaj> Translations FTW!
[06:20] <Noskcaj> I've got about 2000 through other stuff
[06:20] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, most of mine from packaging:P
[06:21] <smartboyhw> You got 170 in Soyuz, I'm 5960
[06:21] <smartboyhw> So, too focused on packaging it seems;P
[06:21] <Noskcaj> i'd say that
[06:22] <Noskcaj> i'll be back soon. i have jobs to do and a case handle to make
[06:22] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, you got a job!?!?!?
[06:28] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, no, i mean, feed animals, carry rubbish to the bins, etc. although with a family of 7 and 50+ animals, i chould be getting payed ;)
[06:28] <Noskcaj> *should
[06:28] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, LOL\
[07:32] <DanChapman> Good Morning all :-)
[07:33] <smartboyhw> Hey DanChapman
[07:34] <DanChapman> smartboyhw, hey! How was your trip to London?
[07:35] <smartboyhw> DanChapman, greato
[07:35] <DanChapman> awesome!
[07:58] <DanChapman> jibel: hey, how are you? Any idea why the terminal test has an import error? I've been trying to figure it out but it runs fine locally.
[08:02] <jibel> DanChapman, Hi, I'm fine thanks. It is because the file is not in python path. I'll add '.' before starting autopilot, that shoudl fix the problem
[08:18] <DanChapman> jibel, brilliant cheers mate.
[08:44] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, one other testdrive thing. Have you translated it to all the languages you know?
[08:45] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, no. And translating to Chinese takes a real lot of time.
[08:45] <smartboyhw> Not like English (Australia)
[08:45] <smartboyhw> After all, it's not-Latin.
[08:45] <smartboyhw> And I only use Pinyin instead of the better Cangjie or Quick
[08:45] <smartboyhw> Since I don't know the latter two.
[08:45] <smartboyhw> I will ask people to help, no worries;P
[08:46] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, can you ask kirkland to kill the 3.21 SRU to raring?
[08:46] <smartboyhw> Obviously it can't be an "SRU", since it introduces new features
[08:47] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, ok, and will do, although kirkland and roaxsoak have power
[08:56] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, What do you think i still need to do with the hackfest on planet ubuntu? http://noskcaj10.wordpress.com/?p=143&preview=true
[08:56] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, eh, that page gave me a 404, thank you
[08:56] <Noskcaj> I'll put it up then, should be fine.
[08:59] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, I got somebody that will help translate UbuntuKylin to Chinese
[08:59] <smartboyhw> :P
[08:59] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, please tell me you typed that wrong.
[09:00] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, no I didn't. That somebody will tell a whole GROUP of people to translate.
[09:00] <smartboyhw> A GROUP of people is much faster than me.
[09:00] <smartboyhw> And as I said, my translation speed is VERY slow.
[09:02] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, ok, cool. the bit that confused me was "I got somebody that will help translate UbuntuKylin to Chinese" when kylin is already chinese. I see what you meant though
[09:02] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj, s*** I mean testdrive
[09:02] <smartboyhw> And BTW UbuntuKylin isn't translated fully INTO Chinese:P
[09:03] <Noskcaj> lololololololololololol
[09:03] <Noskcaj> :)
[09:03] <smartboyhw> lololololololololololololololololololololol
[09:03] <smartboyhw> So Noskcaj your post managed to copy everything from the wiki page. Good job.
[09:04] <Noskcaj> :)
[09:04] <smartboyhw> Don't copy next time, plz.
[09:05] <Noskcaj> smartboyhw, i tried to edit the bits that mattered
[09:26] <jibel> DanChapman, I failure left in terminal tests https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/autopilot-ubuntu-applications/35/testReport/
[09:26] <jibel> DanChapman, it is probably because the terminal is open from the current directory not $HOME
[09:28] <DanChapman> jibel, yeah just seen it. I will change it to get the cwd and test it that way. Thanks for sorting that out :-)
[09:29] <jibel> DanChapman, that or launch with gnome-terminal --working-directory=~
[09:30] <jibel> or the value of $HOME if ap doesn't expand ~
[09:35] <DanChapman> jibel, the --working-directory works a treat. thanks
[10:00] <slickymaster> good morning all
[10:11] <smartboyhw> Ouch, Noskcaj left
[10:11] <smartboyhw> Good evening slickymaster
[10:14] <slickymaster> smartboyhw: hi, morning here ;)
[10:15] <DanChapman> slickymaster, morning!
[10:15] <slickymaster> DanChapman, good morning
[11:06] <pitti> jibel: do you have an lxc setup to give https://code.launchpad.net/~racb/ubuntu/saucy/autopkgtest/lxc/+merge/172856 a try? if not, I'll postpone that until after the holidays
[11:06] <pitti> jibel: it currently needs cloud-images containers, not debootstrap ones, so I'll think about how to install that on ubuntu builds only
[11:12] <jibel> pitti, I am not sure to have time to test it today
[11:13] <pitti> jibel: ok, no worries; this isn't super-urgent
[15:22] <smartboyhw> balloons, PING PING PING
[15:22] <smartboyhw> Can you promote Testdrive Hackfest for us?
[15:22] <smartboyhw> us = me + Noskcaj
[15:23] <balloons> smartboyhw, evening to you
[15:23] <balloons> it's next saturday :-)
[15:23] <balloons> coming up fast :-)
[15:24] <balloons> and yes, I most certainly can
[15:25] <smartboyhw> balloons, many thanks!
[15:25] <smartboyhw> Noskcaj is now in the Testdrive team BTQW
[15:25] <smartboyhw> *BTW
[15:26] <balloons> I'm happy to see you guys have specifics to work on, a nice timeframe and hosted hangouts.. Good work, I think it will come together nicely for you
[15:27] <balloons> Actually smartboyhw I'll make a g+ event for folks
[15:27] <smartboyhw> balloons, GOOD
[15:29] <smartboyhw> Thank you!
[15:30] <balloons> smartboyhw, bah, I can't find you on g+
[15:30] <smartboyhw> balloons, !?
[15:30] <smartboyhw> Ho Wan Chan
[15:30] <smartboyhw> It's not Howard Chan at least;P
[15:30] <balloons> ahh, not howard.. :-)
[15:30] <smartboyhw> LOL
[15:30] <balloons> your in my friends, it should pop.. but it wasn't, lol
[15:30] <smartboyhw> balloons, LOL
[15:33] <slickymaster> balloons, sorry for intruding so abruptly but since you're speaking about Noskcaj, do you think he might had forgotten this https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/Orage/+merge/177683
[15:51] <balloons> ohh my slickymaster didn't even see your message :-)
[15:51] <slickymaster> balloons, np
[15:52] <slickymaster> balloons, as you were speaking about Noskcaj with smartboyhw I remember to ask you if it was possible that he might had forgotten to merge https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/Orage/+merge/177683
[15:52] <balloons> slickymaster, sure..  it sounds like he was ready to merge it. I can certainly do so, but it seems he wanted a few changes -- can you make them?
[15:53] <balloons> btw, great work on all the xubuntu testcases.. It's amazing they've all been written
[15:54] <balloons> DanChapman, ohh mate, I wanted to ask you about ubiquity.. did you get followup on the errors?
[15:54] <slickymaster> balloons, of course I can, I posted exactly that asking him,and as he haven't answered me until now I imagine that he completely forgot it
[15:54] <balloons> yea, most likely. I'd make the change and send another message. if he doesn't merge it over the weekend, I'll do it for you ;-)
[15:54] <xnox> balloons: it's best to follow up with somebody who wrote autopilot, as that's unrelated to ubiquity nor the tests.
[15:54] <slickymaster> balloons, ok, will do it, then
[15:54] <balloons> perfect
[15:55] <slickymaster> balloons, thanks
[15:55] <DanChapman> balloons, hello!
[16:00] <balloons> hey xnox, DanChapman. So the issue boils down to an autopilot bug
[16:00] <balloons> ?
[16:01] <robotfuel> balloons: what's the autopilot bug?
[16:03] <DanChapman> robotfuel, we've been getting an attribute error, Process object has no poll attribute
[16:03] <DanChapman> robotfuel, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/autopilot_ubiquity-saucy/20/ARCH=i386,TESTNAME=ubiquity,label=rabisu/testReport/ubiquity.tests.test_default/DefaultInstallTests/test_default_install/
[16:05] <balloons> DanChapman, so no changes have been pushed to the code.. and thus it started then when a new version of autopilot hit?
[16:05] <xnox> robotfuel: we had our own way to specify private dbus address, and now the new way to do it, interferes with us. and i'm not sure how to port ubiquity to new way.
[16:05] <xnox> or some such.
[16:06] <xnox> robotfuel: our wrapper script starts dbus session bus as root and starts ubiquity & autopilot with that bus in environment. but now it throws a hizzy fit =)
[16:06] <DanChapman> balloons, i made some changes to the tests but they were running fine until ap updated
[16:07] <robotfuel> xnox: do you have a bug open?
[16:07] <balloons> yes, ^^ ?
[16:07] <xnox> robotfuel: no. I wasn't sure where to investigate it further.
[16:07] <balloons> ok, well, let's get one opened up :-)
[16:08] <robotfuel> xnox: we can ask for more info if we need it
[16:10] <xnox> robotfuel:
[16:10] <xnox> bug #1207824
[16:10] <xnox> it's against autopilot & ubiquity
[16:12] <balloons> thanks xnox
[16:13] <robotfuel> xnox: thanks
[16:50] <robotfuel> xnox: this was the commit that broke your test https://code.launchpad.net/~veebers/autopilot/fix_1206011_launch_test_app_dbus_bus/+merge/177334
[16:52] <xnox> robotfuel: but i guess you want that, thus ubiquity should be fixed. but i didn't look deep enough to see how ubiquity should be fixed =)
[16:53] <robotfuel> xnox: if you have a custom dbus session bus address you need to add it to your  get_autopilot_proxy_object_for_process(my_process, None, dbus_bus=<my custom address> )
[16:53] <robotfuel> xnox: by default it's using session
[16:54] <robotfuel> xnox: which wasn't the case before
[16:54] <xnox> robotfuel: ack, thanks. I'll look into that next week =)
[17:34] <balloons> guten abend dkessel
[17:34] <dkessel> hallo balloons! :)
[17:35] <balloons> wie geht?
[17:35] <knome> was?
[17:36] <balloons> sorry knome I know exactly 0 words in Finnish :-(
[17:37] <knome> balloons, mitä kuuluu?
[17:37] <knome> balloons, == what's up?
[17:37] <knome> fixed that for you ;)
[17:38] <balloons> knome, I want to answer "the sky"
[17:38] <balloons> :-p
[17:38]  * balloons wonders how on earth to pronounce that
[17:38] <dkessel> mir geht es gut balloons. aber es ist etwas warm hier.
[17:38] <knome> lol ;)
[17:38] <dkessel> knome, mitä kuuluu?
[17:38] <knome> balloons, that joke doesn't work in finnish ;)
[17:38] <balloons> knome, hah!
[17:39] <knome> balloons, but the literal translation can be "what do you hear"
[17:39] <balloons> ahh, it literally means What do you hear?
[17:39] <knome> yes ;)
[17:39] <balloons> :-)
[17:39] <knome> so you can answer "i'm listening to ..."
[17:40] <balloons> dkessel, gut! es ist warm hier auch. Ich mag es :-)
[17:40] <dkessel> that explains the many finnish bands :) if people have to explain all day what they are listening to....
[17:40] <knome> hahah
[17:41] <knome> dkessel, minulle kuuluu hyvää. entä sinulle?
[17:41] <dkessel> knome: ??? :)
[17:41] <knome> dkessel, just answering your question!
[17:42] <balloons> lol! a little friday evening fun.. So knome since I stopped hacking autopilot, shall we finish the mockup from yesterday?
[17:42] <knome> balloons, later, if that works for you
[17:42] <balloons> knome, I think the ball is mostly in my court. I'll try and update things now
[17:42] <knome> sure
[17:42] <dkessel> knome, minulle kuuluu hyvää :)
[17:42] <knome> \o/
[17:42] <knome> google translate?
[17:43] <dkessel> mhh yeah some translation site :)
[17:43] <dkessel> dict.cc, actually
[17:43] <knome> heh
[17:43] <knome> who needs translation sites for finnish? O:)
[17:50]  * dkessel talks to cat: no cat, it's 30°C in here. there's lying on my lap today....
[17:50] <balloons> does he like your lap or your shoulders better?
[17:50] <balloons> knome, when you'd like to have a look; http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/254/builds/27972/testcases
[17:51] <knome> balloons, exactly what i was looking for ++
[17:51] <balloons> I want delve into the conversation now.. we can save it for later. but I have some thoughts
[17:52] <knome> i can do that now ;)
[17:52] <knome> resolved other issues already
[17:52] <balloons> lol.. well, I should keep moving forward.. I've got to roll out the next cadence week for tomorrow
[17:53] <balloons> almost today, it's getting late in europe and I want to have it up :-)
[17:53] <knome> ah...
[17:53] <knome> oki
[17:53] <knome> just ping me when you have time :)
[17:53] <balloons> ohh.. I thought it was 1700 here..
[17:53] <balloons> it's 1400.. hah!
[17:53] <balloons> sure, let's chat
[17:54] <knome> hehe
[17:54] <knome> weirdo
[17:54] <knome> ;)
[17:54] <dkessel> balloons, lol
[17:54] <balloons> ok, so looking at http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/254/builds would there every be anything else under (product) xubuntu besides xubuntu desktop tests?
[17:55] <knome> balloons, no. (and i'd remove the redundant "Tests" -part)
[17:55] <balloons> Seems a bit silly to have that distinction then, eh? Why not have this be the main screen right? http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/254/builds/27972/testcases
[17:56] <knome> balloons, in the future we can expand that to
[17:56] <knome> xubuntu autopilot tests
[17:56] <knome> or "xubuntu smoketests for new features"
[17:57] <knome> we will have one redundant level anyway, and i'd rather have it in the "top" end
[17:57] <knome> because we will always be able to skip that if we link directly to the product
[17:57] <knome> does that make sense to you?
[17:58] <knome> and to expand the idea before, the product could also be "Xubuntu alternative image tests" (if we had an alt, and if it was any different)
[18:01] <balloons> I'm just trying to get a sense for what else would be listed in the top level
[18:01] <knome> basically nothing else atm
[18:01] <knome> but my point is,
[18:01] <knome> we will have a redundant level anyway
[18:02] <knome> why not have it in the top rather than having to dig three levels into "fileroller" ? :)
[18:06] <balloons> sure, sure ;-)
[18:07] <balloons> just trying to see if any sanity existed for having something else up there
[18:07] <balloons> ok, so what does this break if anything.. hmm hmm
[18:07] <knome> if we want, we can list the autopilot tests there
[18:07] <knome> and while they aren't reported in the tracker, they can be there for completeness
[18:09] <balloons> I think it can work like this.. I was expecting the data to not line up so well, but as usual, I think this makes it easier for everyone.. me too
[18:09] <knome> (or we can simply list the autopilot tests that exist for a product)
[18:09] <balloons> yes, automated tests are an example of what else could go there
[18:10] <knome> so that's just to indicate that this is the level that will expand, if any
[18:11] <balloons> right.. again, understanding what could expand that level.. I'm thinking if we cared about say arch differences, or live session/not live session perhaps.. stuff like that might make sense there.. stuff of that high level of a distinction
[18:11] <knome> yup
[18:11] <knome> exactly
[18:11] <balloons> cool.. So, the real question is how to convert everything then
[18:11] <balloons> heh
[18:11] <knome> just do it
[18:12] <knome> ;)
[18:12] <balloons> ok, I'm going to type my way through this..
[18:12] <knome> as i said, there's the xubuntu desktop product in the production tracker ready
[18:12] <balloons> ok, so you see this page
[18:12] <knome> (just create the saucy daily milestone and make the xubuntu product appear)
[18:13] <balloons> all those milestones.. we drop and remove them from view completely (so status is archived, not released)
[18:13] <knome> mhm
[18:13] <knome> i can't see those though
[18:13] <balloons> right.. if we set them as released, they might confuse and clutter because of the changes.. we have the choice though
[18:13] <knome> i can only see up to the xubuntu desktop product
[18:14] <knome> that's something you need to decide, but i'd probably simply mark them archived
[18:17] <balloons> alright. Next we make a saucy daily milestone
[18:18] <balloons> Then we create product familes for each flavor. Next, we create a "desktop/manual test" product for each flavor and assign it as a member of the flavors product family
[18:19] <balloons> finally, we add testsuites that group each of the testcases into logical units (internet, office, etc, etc). then we add those testsuites to the "desktop/manual test" product for each flavor
[18:19] <knome> (what i also like in this new system is that it reminds the ISO tracker, and thus should be pretty intuitive for anybody having used the ISO tracker)
[18:19] <balloons> finally we publish a build pushing the desktop/manual tests out to saucy daily
[18:19] <knome> yup
[18:19] <balloons> what we lose is the ability to track package specific changes in doing this
[18:20] <knome> hmm, what changes?
[18:20] <balloons> as testcases are the only representation of a package
[18:20] <knome> do you see that as a problem?
[18:20] <balloons> that said, I think we might be able to retain our current setup for calls for testing, so we can track packages.. but then the products page might be funny.. hmm
[18:20] <knome> (i'm still not sure what you mean though)
[18:21] <balloons> right, let me give you an example
[18:21] <knome> sure
[18:21] <balloons> check this out: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/262/history
[18:22] <balloons> we tracked changes in the smart scopes ppa so the bugs and reports lined up with the ppa version.. everytime a new version was pushed, the package was updated
[18:22] <balloons> well.. sorry, a new build on the tracker was pushed
[18:22] <knome> right
[18:22] <balloons> ala, the iso tracker style
[18:22] <knome> i'm still not quite "on it" :)
[18:23] <balloons> knome, what do you mean? so in this case if "ubuntu desktop tests" is the product, we can't track it like this
[18:23] <knome> can't you track changes on the testcase level?
[18:23] <balloons> no, you can't push a new build for a testcase
[18:23] <balloons> we track products, lol
[18:24] <knome> so do you see that as a problem?
[18:25] <balloons> knome, for this type of thing, yes
[18:25] <knome> we can still track the product bugs/changes, and isn't that what's important for an OS to track?
[18:25] <balloons> we need the current setup in order to be able to track a package
[18:26] <balloons> I would say for our normal "daily" testing that the tracking isn't needed
[18:26] <balloons> indeed, perhaps it's not needed for calls for testing eitheir.. you can argue those things. That said, it's not possible to do if it is needed
[18:26] <knome> if you need to track say, Unity, just create a Unity product under the Ubuntu family, right?
[18:26] <balloons> yes
[18:26] <knome> we always can do different things
[18:27] <balloons> and we'd make a milestone just for it as always
[18:27] <knome> sure
[18:27] <balloons> so you'd see saucy daily, as we've presented it
[18:27] <knome> but i'd say not all packages need to have their own product
[18:27] <balloons> then a unity test -- scopes milestone or something
[18:27] <knome> at least not from xubuntu's point of view
[18:27] <balloons> I agree.. it's not sustainable.. the admin interface is overrun quickly doing that
[18:29] <balloons> ok, so, heh, shall we do this for this week's testing :-)
[18:29] <knome> sure.
[18:29] <knome> again, the xubuntu desktop product is ready in the production tracker if you want to see how it looks like in reality ;)
[18:29] <balloons> ahh yes, you keep mentioning this..
[18:30] <knome> ;)
[18:30] <knome> well, we created it with this mindset
[18:30] <knome> so it's a real example
[18:30] <balloons> ohh lookey there
[18:30] <balloons> :-)
[18:30] <balloons> LOL
[18:30]  * balloons is a slow floater
[18:30] <knome> hehe
[18:31] <knome> that's why i've been so convinced this is the right way - we already did the brainwork ;)
[18:31] <balloons> ok, so new familes are xubuntu, ubuntu and multi-flavor
[18:32] <balloons> i'll need to add at least lubuntu to start as well I think
[18:32] <knome> sounds correct
[18:33] <balloons> k, archiving the milestones
[18:33] <knome> :)
[18:35] <balloons> ok, only saucy daily exists
[18:36] <knome> wooo
[18:36] <balloons> k, xubuntu first since it's ready
[18:36] <knome> \o/
[18:37] <balloons> boom
[18:37] <balloons> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases
[18:37] <knome> awesome.
[18:37] <balloons> it's beautiful
[18:37] <knome> it is
[18:37] <knome> no redundant clicking
[18:38] <balloons> as always knome your input is most treasured.. many thanks
[18:38] <knome> just get-to-the-point and enable people to test
[18:38] <knome> no problem :)
[18:38] <balloons> i like the grouping.. seeing it in action is believing..
[18:38] <knome> we might want to move Xfce as a product at some point
[18:38] <balloons> I wanted to go with the grouping idea, but I didn't quite bring it this far along.. I think this can work
[18:38] <balloons> I was going to ask you about that :-)
[18:38] <balloons> since it's shared :-)
[18:39] <knome> but let's keep it as is for now
[18:39] <knome> oh btw, xubuntu desktop seems to be under the ubuntu family ;)
[18:39] <balloons> yea, everything was reset to ubuntu
[18:39] <balloons> almost every product I should say
[18:39] <knome> :)
[18:39] <balloons> fixed :-)
[18:40] <knome> nice
[18:40] <knome> elfy, ping
[18:42] <balloons> so brainstorming multi-flavor.. I'm thinking kernel, and x stuff.. put that in one product.. then make just a generic "packages" product too, or make it all under one banner.. hmm perhaps one banner is fine
[18:43] <knome> hehe, yip
[18:43] <knome> *yup
[18:43] <knome> any "packages" or "tests" group is redundant
[18:43] <balloons> do we have a better term than multi-flavor?
[18:43] <knome> you *are* on the *PACKAGES* *TESTING* tracker
[18:44] <knome> common ?
[18:44] <balloons> ok, multi-flavor is up.. renaming is easy, so :-)
[18:44] <dkessel> hm let's see if the jenkins tests still fail if i install ALL build-deps as a pre-condition....
[18:45] <elfy> knome: pong
[18:45] <knome> elfy, http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/
[18:45] <knome> elfy, see how we're organized now?
[18:46] <elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases
[18:46] <elfy> nice
[18:46] <knome> isn't it!
[18:46] <knome> balloons, re multi-flavor
[18:47] <elfy> that's awesome
[18:47] <knome> balloons, i'd probably add products like "X", "audio"
[18:47] <balloons> would you? I was debating
[18:47] <knome> balloons, does that make sense?
[18:47] <balloons> btw, I like common.. elfy your thoughts on what to call it?
[18:47] <elfy> agnostic
[18:47] <knome> balloons, and please stop using "Tests" ;)
[18:47] <elfy> but common works
[18:48] <knome> balloons, as i said, it's redundant, you are on the *TESTING* tracker
[18:48] <knome> :)
[18:48] <balloons> anywhere you see tests, feel free to rename
[18:48] <balloons> I've been doing it as I see them
[18:48] <knome> hehe
[18:48] <knome> i'll run a big commit some day then :P
[18:48] <balloons> of course, we'll have to sync the lp source
[18:48] <balloons> yea :-)
[18:48] <balloons> but testsuites was were I was worrying about it
[18:48] <knome> elfy, we might want to rethink the mandatory/run once/optional tests
[18:48] <balloons> that's stored in the tracker
[18:48] <balloons> the cases we can do a big commit and fix
[18:48] <elfy> balloons knome - I'd +1 calling the multi flavour thing common
[18:48] <balloons> that's easy
[18:49] <balloons> ok, common it is.. switching
[18:49] <elfy> knome: agreed - I was thinking that about 1 minute ago :)
[18:49] <knome> elfy, thinking that core components like xfce panel should be mandatory
[18:49] <elfy> yep
[18:49] <knome> elfy, and things like xfce dict optional
[18:49] <knome> don't know what to group under run-once though
[18:50] <elfy> knome: let me deal with the 3 I want to sort out tomorrow and then I will look at mandatory - let you know so you can yay or nay
[18:50] <knome> probably something like the settings manager, which is kind of tested with all the rest of the settings tests too
[18:50] <elfy> settings manager needs to be looked at imho
[18:50] <knome> elfy, please set up a pad at pad.ubuntu.com to do that so we can collaborate on it :)
[18:51] <elfy> knome: yep - will do :)
[18:51] <knome> ta
[18:51]  * elfy is only setting aside half a day for forum account/sso mishaps tomorrow 
[18:51] <knome> heh
[18:51] <knome> only ;)
[18:51] <elfy> rest is all xubuntu stuff
[18:51] <elfy> knome: I got home at 6pm - I've just done 70 odd mails to people
[18:52] <knome> huhu
[18:52] <elfy> not even looked at any on the forum today - been a complete nightmare
[18:52] <knome> isn't it always?
[18:52]  * knome hides
[18:53] <elfy> :) 'my e-mail is exactly the same it is broken' 'umm - no they aren't - do you want me to fix'
[18:53] <balloons> ok, so we should probably group the tests a bit better
[18:54] <balloons> you see this isn't as pretty: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50385/testcases
[18:54] <elfy> balloons: anyway - multi-flavor tests is spelt wrong ... there's a U in flavour :p
[18:54] <balloons> hah!
[18:54] <knome> balloons, firefox + thunderbird + networkmanager -> network
[18:54] <balloons> something wrong with the colour too eh?
[18:54] <elfy> all seems out of line here
[18:54] <knome> balloons, alsa + pulseaudio -> audio
[18:55] <balloons> yea.. me and my horrible english
[18:55] <elfy> :)
[18:55] <elfy> you can't help it balloons - I blame your teachers :)
[18:55] <knome> balloons, kernel + xmir -> core
[18:55] <balloons> why thank you elfy :-)
[18:55] <knome> balloons, or xmir + mesa -> graphics core or sth
[18:55] <elfy> :)
[18:55] <balloons> ok,it's set to common.. an easy word to spell
[18:56] <elfy> lol
[18:56] <elfy> looks good to me
[18:57] <balloons> so elfy knome for now shall we agree to set aside the issue of some common apps across flavors.. beyond the couple big ones we pull out.. for instance, simple scan. or should we try and get them all?
[18:58] <knome> balloons, i'd think grabbing the biggest ones is fine
[18:58] <elfy> agreed
[18:58] <knome> otherwise we end up putting everything under common
[18:58] <balloons> k. So firefox and thunderbird (we don't have a chromium test, we should note a bug for it if we don't have one)
[18:58] <balloons> what else besides the core things of Graphics and Kernel?
[18:59] <elfy> testshttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manualtests/+bug/1185946
[18:59]  * balloons notes his spelling is on display again
[18:59] <knome> balloons, can't think of much more
[18:59] <knome> balloons, we'll group when we hit something
[18:59] <knome> (pidgin?)
[18:59] <balloons> network manager and orca are in there
[19:00] <balloons> not sure how many flavors use nm
[19:00] <elfy> not sure who uses pidgin as default without checking
[19:00] <knome> that's why i there was a question mark ;)
[19:00] <knome> -i
[19:00] <balloons> I think we'll leave it to the big browsers for now and see what happens
[19:00] <balloons> so now, last thing we need is grouping these
[19:01] <elfy> better to add things later than have to fiddle about removing things and putting them elsewhere
[19:01] <knome> balloons, i already msg'd you some proposals
[19:01] <balloons> yes, indeed..
[19:01] <knome> the odd tests can then be grouped under "others" IMO
[19:02] <balloons> remove the redundant naming eh.. you must really hate that!
[19:02] <knome> yes!
[19:02] <balloons> after this is over I'll want to clean up all the old stuff to make the admin pages saner
[19:02] <knome> hehe
[19:03] <knome> yeah... was thinking about that too
[19:04] <dkessel> jamespage, are you there? i saw your name on the ubuntu jenkins package page... maybe you can help me
[19:04]  * dkessel wonders how jenkins itself can be built for ubuntu at all....
[19:05] <balloons> dkessel, :*-(
[19:06] <dkessel> balloons, even with all build-deps, the tests (and product code) still cannot find some java packages they depend on...
[19:07] <balloons> pretty.. http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50385/testcases
[19:07] <balloons> phillw, any chance your about?
[19:07] <knome> balloons, that does look good :)
[19:07] <dkessel> test cases for common...mhhh
[19:08] <dkessel> that reads strange
[19:09] <balloons> dkessel, your input appreciated
[19:09] <balloons> slickymaster, check out the changes to the packages tracker.. input appreciated :-)
[19:09] <balloons> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds
[19:10] <knome> can be fixed by changing the template to "$PRODUCT testcases in $MILESTONE"
[19:10] <dkessel> well - maybe not call it "multi-flavo(u)r" again ;)... but "test cases for all flavors" would kind make sense
[19:10] <knome> but not accurate
[19:10] <knome> not *all* flavors have say, firefox
[19:10] <dkessel> oh ok. then i misunderstood.
[19:11] <dkessel> d'oh. maybe i should've added the build-deps for "saucy", not raring....
[19:11] <knome> balloons, what do you think if we reordered the words as i proposed? that'd fix the issue, and must be trivial to do
[19:12] <knome> balloons, or just "$PRODUCT in $MILESTONE" if you want to get shorter :)
[19:14] <balloons> knome, ok, I got lost somewhere
[19:14] <knome> balloons, lol, dkessel's point...
[19:14] <knome> balloons, currently:  Testcases for Common in Saucy Daily
[19:15] <knome> balloons, change to: Common (testcases) in Saucy Daily
[19:15] <knome> balloons, fixes the naming problem
[19:15] <balloons> knome, ahh.. that's a coding change
[19:15] <knome> balloons, yup.
[19:15] <knome> balloons, trivial one though
[19:15] <balloons> well.. actually no
[19:16] <balloons> hmm
[19:16] <knome> how so?
[19:16] <balloons> lol
[19:16] <knome> it's just text.
[19:16] <balloons> yes yes
[19:16] <dkessel> knome, good idea
[19:16] <knome> balloons, in iso, currently:  Testcases for Ubuntu Desktop amd64 in Saucy Daily
[19:16] <knome> balloons, change to: Ubuntu Desktop amd64 (testcases) in Saucy Daily
[19:17] <knome> much more to-the-point as well
[19:17] <balloons> fair enough.. we should file a bug then
[19:17] <knome> yay
[19:17] <balloons> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+filebug
[19:17] <knome> i can do that in a few minutes unless you jump on it before :D
[19:19] <knome> ok, filing
[19:21] <Letozaf_> balloons, buonasera :)
[19:22] <knome> balloons, do you have a tag for all trackers?
[19:22] <knome> aha, qa-tracker
[19:23] <balloons> Letozaf_, buonasera
[19:23] <Letozaf_> I have been working on that rssreader app problem, but swipe does not work even if I got the Canonical feed correctly now
[19:23] <knome> balloons, bug 1207877
[19:23] <balloons> Letozaf_, we've been busy messing with the qatracker if I can sidetrack you for one moment
[19:23] <Letozaf_> balloons, sure, I will be back in another moment when you are not so busy :p
[19:25] <balloons> Letozaf_, we want your opinion :-) o
[19:25] <balloons> have a look: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds
[19:25] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh! sure
[19:25]  * Letozaf_ is looking 
[19:28] <balloons> so knome basically had the idea, along with the xubuntu crew to change how the layout works to be very similar to the iso tracker
[19:28] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes it look fine, with a lot of links for understanding better what to do and how
[19:28]  * elfy waits for irclog to  catch up as he lost connection
[19:28] <Letozaf_> balloons, thats very helpful
[19:29] <balloons> so the products are split between what's common and what a flavor specific, and you'll see how nicely they've grouped things: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases
[19:29] <knome> elfy, that's why you need a screen on this channel :)
[19:30] <balloons> ahh, yea, having a permanent connection is rather nice
[19:30] <elfy> knome: oh yea - I'll go look ... piskie will tell me all :)
[19:31] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes look neat
[19:31]  * balloons wonders how many aliases elfy has
[19:31] <slickymaster> balloons, sorry for interrupting, but it's just a quick update. Already made the changes to https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubuntu-manual-tests/Orage/+merge/177683
[19:31] <slickymaster> balloons, it's ready for merge
[19:31] <balloons> Letozaf_, great.. So I have to group the ubuntu tests together and we should be good to go for this week :-)
[19:31] <elfy> balloons: about 10 ...
[19:31] <balloons> knome, or elfy could you merge slickymaster's changes whilst I help Letozaf_ ?
[19:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes I
[19:32] <elfy> you can just never tell who'll tell tales :p
[19:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, think it will be good
[19:32] <elfy> knome: I can do it shortly if you like
[19:32] <balloons> always iterating along.. I'm curious to see what everyone else will think.. anyways, to rss reader!
[19:32] <knome> elfy, sure. thanks :)
[19:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, thanks, I pushed everything here: https://code.launchpad.net/~carla-sella/ubuntu-rssreader-app/anotherSwipeCnt
[19:32] <balloons> ty both!
[19:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, yw
[19:33] <balloons> k Letozaf_ I'll bzr pull to update :-)
[19:33] <slickymaster> balloons, elfy, knome, thanks. Got run. My wife is waiting for me
[19:33] <balloons> enjoy slickymaster !
[19:33] <slickymaster> cy
[19:33] <Letozaf_> balloons, I have clicked on the canonical feed before swiping, and the click is correct, do not understand why swipe does not work
[19:33] <balloons> elfy, about 10, wow.. I think I know of 3
[19:34] <forestpiskie> balloons: you might know of themadmonk
[19:34] <balloons> Letozaf_, ohh good.. if the click is correct, this should be easy to fix, lol :-)
[19:34] <balloons> forestpiskie, nope, that's new
[19:34] <balloons> to me
[19:34] <elfy> :)
[19:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, ha ha... :p
[19:34] <elfy> knome: I knew that having screen somewhere would be a good idea ... anyway - time to eat
[19:35] <Letozaf_> balloons, I put a sleep just to see that the click works, it's just for debugging
[19:35] <knome> elfy, bon appetit
[19:39] <balloons> Letozaf_, conflicts ofc, lol.. because I changed things too.. I'll just revert to your stuff
[19:39] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok
[19:40] <Letozaf_> balloons, :)
[19:40]  * balloons remembers bzr shelve and bzr unshelve
[19:41] <Letozaf_> balloons, :?
[19:41]  * Letozaf_ uses google
[19:42] <Letozaf_> balloons, cool
[19:43] <dkessel> mh, jenkins autopkgtest build fails with saucy build-deps, too :-(
[19:44] <balloons> dkessel, when you become an autopkgtest expert too, you can update me :-)
[19:44] <knome> sudo apt-get install balloons
[19:44] <dkessel> lol
[19:44] <dkessel> sudo apt-get install autopkgtest-expert-wisdom
[19:44] <knome> or is it just in a private PPA?
[19:44] <balloons> ohh.. to think if I was a package
[19:45]  * balloons dreams
[19:45] <knome> mistype me and you'll get "half of gnome"
[19:45] <knome> (something we in xubuntu refer to when some package pulls in unwanted dependencies)
[19:46] <balloons> --no-install-recommends is your best friend
[19:46] <balloons> I want knome only, not elfy too!
[19:47] <balloons> :-p
[19:47] <dkessel> balloons, maybe its best if i post to ubuntu-devel-discuss (if that is an open list) and ask for help...
[19:48] <knome> balloons, not when building the ISO seed ;)
[19:50] <balloons> dkessel, I'm sorry, I thought we sent something along already to someone who could help
[19:50] <balloons> and yes, it's an open list.
[19:53] <Letozaf_> balloons, I've been trying, whatever values I put in self.pointing_device.drag it drags high
[19:54] <balloons> Letozaf_, sorry, it's failing long before for me
[19:54] <balloons> one sec
[19:55] <balloons> Letozaf_, ok, I think that's solved.. one issue with the test is that it wants to remove a topic that might not exist
[19:55] <balloons> as in my case :-)
[19:56] <balloons> we might want to roll this into the add test.. so it adds and removes.. anyways
[19:56] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh sorry, the Canonical feed should already be added... otherwise it does not work
[19:56] <Letozaf_> balloons, have to complete the test still, it's just work in progress
[19:56] <balloons> right :-)
[19:57] <balloons> so anyways, it's running now
[20:02] <balloons> Letozaf_, ok so I fixed the get_topic issue
[20:02] <Letozaf_> balloons, what was it ?
[20:03] <balloons> Letozaf_, well I used the objectName.. I did several things
[20:03] <balloons> it wasn't selecting the right topic for me
[20:03] <balloons> so let's see if it works now that it does
[20:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, weired, I could click the topic, but it doesn't matter as long as it works :)
[20:06] <balloons> Noskcaj, check out http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds
[20:07] <Noskcaj> balloons, will do
[20:07] <dkessel> mail is out, good night!
[20:07] <balloons> dkessel, gut nacht1
[20:08] <balloons> lol Letozaf_ it simple doesn't go to the proper place
[20:08] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes but I cannot get it to go to the right one :p
[20:09] <Noskcaj> balloons, looks good.
[20:09] <Letozaf_> balloons, maybe I need a map :p
[20:09] <balloons> Letozaf_, I printed the coords.. its moving to 15,16
[20:09] <balloons> that's no good.. hmm
[20:10] <balloons> let me try adding in the qmlview coords :-)
[20:10] <balloons> Letozaf_, ohh d'oh!
[20:11] <balloons> stupid stupid
[20:11] <Letozaf_> balloons, what :p
[20:13] <balloons> ok, so the x axis was totally wrong
[20:13] <balloons> we only care about the width of the screen.. the location is meaningless
[20:16] <balloons> fixing the y axis now
[20:16] <balloons> I grabbed the qml view and using the width and hight properties
[20:16] <Letozaf_> balloons, but where the x and y values of the canonical topic wrong ? I mean in vis
[20:17] <balloons> Letozaf_, no, but they are relative values I believe
[20:17] <balloons> on our pc screens it matters
[20:17] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh!
[20:18] <balloons>         startX = int(qmlView.x + qmlView.width * 0.35) stopX = int(qmlView.x + qmlView.width * 0.50)
[20:18] <Letozaf_> balloons, and the y ? was that fine ?
[20:19] <balloons> Letozaf_, no.. so the y value I'm trying to figure out
[20:19] <Letozaf_> balloons, sorry :p
[20:19] <balloons> you have qmlView.y and qmlView.height
[20:20] <elfy> knome: ok - merged orage now
[20:20] <balloons> canonical topic.y for me is 15.. the coord for me is listed as 52 and the height is listed as 600
[20:20] <knome> elfy, ta ta
[20:21]  * elfy must send a note to the list - not sure who's marking bugs - that was one of the 3 I had down as committed and needing to go to tracker
[20:21] <balloons> Letozaf_, playing in vis now to understand things better
[20:21] <Letozaf_> balloons, thanks
[20:24] <Letozaf_> balloons, for showing the toolbar you did        lineX = qmlView.x + qmlView.width * 0.50       startY = qmlView.y + qmlView.height - 1      stopY = qmlView.y + qmlView.height * 0.95
[20:24] <Letozaf_> balloons, maybe this can help understand
[20:25] <balloons> yes, you grab the coord, qmlView.y + the offest
[20:25] <balloons> the offset in the toolbar case is qmlView.height * a percentage
[20:25] <balloons> in our case, we need to know where the thing we clicked is at :-)
[20:25] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes but how ?
[20:26] <Letozaf_> balloons, that's why I said  I need a map :p
[20:26] <balloons> well, I thought we'd have the proper offset
[20:26] <balloons> but it seems the x, y isn't?
[20:26] <Letozaf_> balloons, no it clicks on the upper left side of the screen
[20:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, well not clicks, swipes
[20:27] <balloons> Letozaf_, lol.. it doesn't do that anymore :-)
[20:29] <balloons> Letozaf_, so it should be something like lineY = int(qmlView.y + canonicalTopic.y)
[20:29] <balloons> but that's just a little too high.. something is missing
[20:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, maybe we need the qmlViwe.height light for the tooldbar
[20:32] <balloons> Letozaf_, yes I agree
[20:32] <balloons> the tabbar at the top rather
[20:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, but that percentage, could it be right or what ?
[20:35] <balloons> hmm
[20:35] <balloons> autopilot vis has the answer I think
[20:35] <balloons> let me confirm
[20:36] <balloons> indeed
[20:36] <knome> tabbar? sounded like swedish
[20:36] <balloons> so the qmlView is 400x600 on my screen for example
[20:36] <balloons> now, the units are relative, so we can depend on these values.. however, the page view is only 524 units
[20:37] <balloons> thus in my case the top section is 76 pixels high
[20:37] <knome> lol, and is... "tabba" is "a goof", "tabbar" is "goofs"
[20:37] <Letozaf_> knome, :p
[20:37] <balloons> Letozaf_, so we should be able to grab the page height instead and subtract them to get the offset we need
[20:38] <Letozaf_> balloons, I'm a  bit lost :p... let me see if I see the values you see
[20:39] <balloons> look at the mainview width and height
[20:39] <balloons> then look at the pagestack, and click one of the pages.. you'll see a slightly smaller value
[20:40] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh right the header is 76 also for me
[20:40] <balloons> right.. but it could change, so we'll do the math
[20:40] <balloons> let me add that and we should be good :-)
[20:41] <Letozaf_> balloons, also my page is 600 x 400
[20:41] <Letozaf_> balloons, well 400 x 600
[20:43] <Letozaf_> balloons, the globalRect property seems to have the right values
[20:43] <Letozaf_> balloons, of the page I mean, all together
[20:43] <balloons> yes, but I don't think we want to use that
[20:43] <balloons> it has absolute pixels
[20:43] <Letozaf_> balloons, no, you're right
[20:44] <balloons> bah, just need to get the objectName squared.. almost got it
[20:44] <balloons> ;-)
[20:47] <balloons> :-(
[20:49]  * Letozaf_ is lost in vis
[20:49] <balloons> it worked
[20:49] <balloons> woot
[20:50] <Letozaf_> balloons, gooooood!
[20:51] <Letozaf_> balloons is magic :O
[20:52] <balloons> ok, so I'll push my branch back up so you can see
[20:53] <Letozaf_> balloons, thanks :)
[20:59] <balloons> Letozaf_, lp:~nskaggs/ubuntu-rssreader-app/carla-remove-topic
[20:59] <Letozaf_> balloons, I will pull it now thanks
[21:00] <balloons> you should be able to bzr merge if you'd like
[21:02] <Letozaf_> balloons, I have already branched it in another directory :p
[21:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, so I can look at it and understand, at least I will try to :p
[21:04] <Letozaf_> balloons, it works!!! thank you!
[21:04] <Letozaf_> balloons, I owe you a milkshake (you do not drink beer :p)
[21:04] <balloons> Letozaf_, your most welcome. So know you get to finish up the heavy lifting.. does what we did make sense?
[21:04] <balloons> Letozaf_, :-) I'm happy to do it..
[21:04] <balloons> i had to learn something too!
[21:04] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes
[21:04] <balloons> your always finding these troublesome things
[21:04] <balloons> :-)
[21:05] <Letozaf_> balloons, :p
[21:05] <Letozaf_> balloons, going to bed now, I will carry on tomorrow, thanks a lot and have a nice week end
[21:05] <balloons> enjoy!
[21:05] <balloons> ciao Letozaf_
[21:05] <Letozaf_> balloons, ciao e buon fine settimana
[21:06] <balloons> ci vediamo lunedi
[21:32] <elfy> balloons: odd issue - you know anything ? go here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu click Report a bug - I've just confirmed someone else's issue - it goes to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[21:32] <balloons> elfy, that redirect is intended
[21:32] <elfy> mmmm
[21:32] <elfy> why?
[21:32] <balloons> basically the bugsquad doesn't want generic bugs to triage from ubuntu
[21:33] <elfy> ok
[21:33] <balloons> so to help there workload, that redirect exists.. they prefer things filed using ubuntu-bug :-)
[21:33] <knome> hmm, i don't get that
[21:33] <elfy> neither do I - but then I don't do anything with bugs
[21:33] <balloons> whew, I finished arranging ubuntu.. I'm going to try something for lubuntu.. see what is out there
[21:34] <balloons> right, I would chat with the bugs guys a bit more.. but afaik, that's how that works
[21:34] <balloons> now if your logged in, it might not redirect you, depending
[21:34] <balloons> welp.. ok, so nvm.. redirects me too :-)
[21:39] <balloons> ok, so ubuntu gnome and lubuntu are all set it.. lubuntu even has some tests :-)
[21:39] <phillw> balloons: I am
[21:39] <balloons> phillw, right on cue
[21:39] <balloons> have a look mate:
[21:39] <balloons> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds
[21:40] <phillw> balloons: yup, looked... now seriously puzzled as to why there is only one lubuntu offering?
[21:41] <balloons> well, you've got to help me expand it ;-) The basic idea was to sort things out and flatten the views, and make things more similar to the iso tracker
[21:42] <balloons> knome really helped pioneer the idea, and we spent a couple days hashing on it this week
[21:46] <phillw> balloons: whilst I'm sure it does make things much easier on the eye for people, do not for get that 1) lubuntu are the only flavour with server who have an alternate image 2) with last weeks issue from the release team, we are now the ppc holders. I'd love for it to be cut down as it is, but these two sets of ISO's are *really* important to lubuntu and part of raison d'etre
[21:50] <balloons> phillw, I'm confused -- this is about the package side.. no matter how you run lubuntu, you've got lubuntu packages ;-)
[21:50] <balloons> on the iso tracker, all those images will of course be tracked and tested, etc
[21:51] <balloons> on the packages side, we've lumped them together as one.. now, we can happily consider adding tests on the packages tracker for specific arch's, etc
[21:51] <phillw> balloons: you have also lost me, I've had a real long day today.
[21:51] <balloons> we spoke about that briefly today.. for xubuntu and ubuntu, we'll leave it as is
[21:51] <balloons> phillw, ahh.. no worries then.
[21:53] <phillw> I'll catch up with things over the w/end... between dead bodies on the rail line and points failures in the tracks... It has been a blooming LONG train journey there and back. balloons I promise to look into it over the w/end. I'm still trying to catch up with emails.
[21:53] <balloons> in a nutshell, the packages tracker has the a listing of testcases for all default apps in every flavor (well, that's our goal, some flavors have more tests written than others). We want to test all the default apps, just like we test the images. We've changed the layout to make it easier to see what needs tested in each flavor by sorting the testcases between "common" and flavor specific
[21:53] <phillw> balloons: did you see the one re: OVH, which was preying on minds?
[21:53] <balloons> if you click xubuntu, you see all the xubuntu tests, click common, you'll see the common things like kernel, etc
[21:55] <balloons> don't worry to omuch about it now
[21:55] <phillw> balloons: I'm sorry, but I've not gotten people from lubuntu for the test case re-writes. mine were some time ago. I've been spending time on wiki stuff.
[21:55] <balloons> like yourself, it's time for me to wind down and find some food!
[21:55] <balloons> phillw, I know I know.. I think this will help folks want to write more tests.. We have a list of stuff needing done, and a very clear place they will end up
[21:56] <balloons> well, know we have a very clear place :-) hence I think it will help
[21:56] <balloons> anyways, cheers mate
[21:56] <balloons> elfy, knome , Noskcaj good night to you as well
[21:56] <elfy> night balloons
[21:56] <Noskcaj> night balloons
[21:57] <phillw> having a newcomer take a look at the ppa wiki, reminded me just how much we take for granted of a new person joining.
[21:57] <phillw> g'night balloons have a good week end.
[21:57] <elfy> phillw: try using the packages.qa manual
[21:57] <elfy> oh sorry - there isn't one :p
[21:58] <elfy> documentation is in peoples heads :)
[22:01] <phillw> elfy: try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PPA_Testing hopefully easier for n00b to understand. It is all very well to have a page that lasts 10 pages on for 'glossary', but a newcomer would never take that all on board. I am used to getting told off by Liz for pre-assuming knowledge. As a way to get around this, I've asked a person how is a new-commer, but a very good author to review my pages. It may look simplistic to you and others, but when 
[22:01] <phillw> deatils of what we are talking about on one page.
[22:01] <phillw> s/how/who
[22:02] <elfy> that looks easy to follow
[22:05] <phillw> we have the next one to for adding in the *test* repo's :D
[22:06] <phillw> elfy: it may seem easy, but even for me trying to write in newcommer language, I take for accepted terms that we all use that will not understand.
[22:07] <phillw> *that they will not*
[22:08] <knome> nighty balloons :)
[22:08] <phillw> elfy: that new page is built from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/PPA_Testing Has all the same instructions, just less explanation. This is what I'm quietly trying to get done :)
[22:10] <elfy> phillw: I know what you mean - I had the same thing with bzr and then getting to grips with packages.q.com
[22:10] <elfy> planning to write stuff out
[22:15] <phillw> elfy: if you need an "over view" and do not mind the questions, Linda has already shown herself to be very good on such pages. Basically, she has to be able to understand it. Pages may be longer, but someone dropping onto them for the 1st time have a darn good chance of uderstanding it. Her work on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware changed that page totally in explaining *why* is does stuff, instead of of >> Just do this<<
[22:17] <phillw> section 'A' didn't even exist :D
[22:17] <elfy> phillw: probably hard to do that way - as if it was me then I'd want to look physically at what I was writing - and you'd need to be an admin
[22:19] <phillw> I write them technically correct, and explain as I think they should be. It is only when a literate newcommer reviews things, do we realise that we forgot some of the basics :) This is no slur on us, we have to get it technically correct, but having a 'techcnical author' review our stuff is a gain to everyone who follows.
[22:20] <elfy> I agree - but if said reviewer cannot see what you're writing about ...
[22:21] <phillw> He he, the HOURS I spent on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities and I still have stuff to add!
[22:29] <phillw> elfy: they will ask, because if they cannot; you cannot expect a new comer to understand. Here's a blast from the plast.... http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=35 when you editied it, you asked me to remove your name. over 2,000 people have viewed it since :)
[22:30] <phillw> s/palst/past
[22:32] <elfy> phillw: you're not understanding me :)
[22:32] <elfy> write something about win7 - ask me to review it - how can I - got no access :)
[22:34] <Noskcaj> elfy, I just borrow/take on of my brother's computers for that
[22:34] <Noskcaj> ;)
[22:39] <phillw> elfy: I was quietly warned away from Win7, now that Win8 has had the start button added it is getting pretty good reviews
[22:39] <Noskcaj> phillw, 8.1
[22:41] <phillw> Noskcaj: what ever they call it. when I replaced an XP machine, I was quietly advised to go to Win 8 with the update.
[22:44] <phillw> that win did offer (very quietly) a free update from win7 to Win8, does speak volumes. for my self? I'm glad, XP goes EOL in march... talk about cutting it fine!