[06:05] hello all [06:07] \o [06:58] http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/r1nP2KSpAJxkBohu.large [06:59] lol === jussi01 is now known as jussi [07:50] Morning all [07:50] hi popey [07:55] morning popey [08:00] morning [08:00] I like the nice cool, gray cloud, thunderstorm in London at the moment =) [08:01] so nice and cool =) [08:01] Sun and expected 35°C here in .NL === iahmad is now known as iahmad|afk [08:06] raining here too === alan_g|EOD is now known as alan_g [08:25] just saw somebody watering the plants during a massive downpour [08:26] pmsl [08:26] mungbean: ... [08:27] public sector for you [08:35] * popey boggles at http://www.scribd.com/doc/157407829/Private-Browser-Sponsorship-Details [08:36] lol [08:37] uk.gov should sponsor it. that'll work [08:37] Are there any other ways we can sponsor Private Browser? [08:37] If you develop a plugin or extension for either Chromium or Firefox please contact us fordetails on having your plugin/extension installed by default [08:38] hahaaha-bonk [08:38] install ALL of the plugins [08:38] * DJones prepares to to disappointed or elated when they announce the new Doctor Who on Sunday [08:38] who do you want? and who we gonna get? [08:38] i don't ant the creepy guy who appeared in merlin [08:39] in fact i won't watch it at all if he's the one [08:39] what if it's Rupert Grint? [08:39] that would be spectacular [08:40] I really do rate him as an actor [08:40] brian blessed [08:40] mungbean: that would be.. bombastic [08:40] much higher than the other two, especially Emma Watson who can only talk by wiggling her eyebrows [08:40] i've never seen or watched harrypotter [08:40] i know the ginger fellow you mean though [08:41] good morning everyone, [08:41] I'd like somebody like James Nesbitt to get the part, he's got the right look of insanity that goes with the best of the doctors [08:41] i would rather it's a relative unknown [08:41] popey: it's you, isn't it? [08:41] maybe will from inbetweeners would be good ;) [08:41] argh [08:41] I hate nesbitt [08:42] +1 [08:42] housewives favourite for some reason [08:42] he's over used [08:42] popey: I think it will be somebody fairly unknown, that seems to have worked well with Matt Smith, I'd never heard of him when he got the role [08:42] came goes for all the other doctors too [08:42] colin morgan would be a good un [08:42] it's pretty much tradition to bring someone out of nowhere [08:43] for bvious reasons, you don't wanna stall your career [08:43] mungbean: the doctor who/merlin fandoms would explode [08:43] tumblr would melt down [08:43] yahoo would go out of business [08:44] i used to play a game where you guess the moment that merlin would end up with manure on his face in each episode. always happens once [08:44] there's talk that it might be one of the kids from the latest BT adverts [08:44] adverts? what ar they? [08:44] it's gotta be a girl, surely? :-p [08:45] I would *love* for it to be a woman [08:45] nope [08:45] although based on what happened last week, she'd be threatened with rape and murder [08:45] o_O [08:46] SuperMatt: uh... wut? [08:46] A woman petitioned for Jane Austen to be on the next £10 note [08:46] and got *seriously* harassed for it [08:46] trolls be trolling [08:46] http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/jul/27/twitter-trolls-threats-bank-notes-austen [08:47] SuperMatt: and that's when you start filing police reports [08:47] trolls be trolling, but we should be living in a society where no one even considers trolling this because it *should* be normal === iahmad|afk is now known as iahmad [08:48] i admit i haven't paid any attention to the news for a long time [08:48] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_actors_considered_for_the_part_of_the_Doctor [08:48] the media highlight stories of their choosing and skew real life [08:49] horsemeat thing went really quiet because media people decided it had run its course. i'm sure more companies have found it , but they don't bother reporting it anymore cos its outside of the window [08:49] same for measles etc [08:49] and you'd think only one little girl has ever gone missing [08:50] that'll be Madeleine Mccann then :-p [08:50] A lot of what I see on the news seems to be just sensationalism for the sake of selling papers. [08:51] and laziness and bias [08:51] MartijnVdS: Looking at the wikipedia article, I read it to say that "Roy Kinnear was considering becoming the 12 doctor" I know he uses a time machine but even so, that would have been a stretch [08:51] any article written about something i remotely know about seems to be incorrect [08:51] I enjoyed Russel Brand when he was on some american morning show [08:51] * dwatkins wonders if they've considered a woman for the next Doctor [08:51] mungbean: this extends to things you don't know about [08:51] hence i extrapolate that to stories i don't know about too [08:51] yep [08:51] saying "stop talking what people are wearing and actually report the news" [08:52] and btw notice the guardian are releasing selected NSA slides [08:52] they are holding some back for maximum exposure [08:53] and others for secrecy/outrage [08:53] mungbean: sure, but that's also some insurance for Snowden [08:53] nah [08:53] mungbean: if they disappear him, they can drop everything now [08:53] I do find it ironic that certain newspapers campaign to stop us from accessing pornographic websites, then dedicate many articles to showing scantily clad celebrities [08:53] drop = release all the slides [08:54] I quite like it though, because you release something saying that's all you know, the NSA respond, and then you use the rest to prove they're lying [08:54] but snowden said he could read emails from his desk [08:55] but didn't he get the ppt from lax rules on the sharepoint server? [08:55] SuperMatt: did you see the keynote from the NSA general the other day? [08:55] so when he said he, he didn't mean he [08:55] http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2013/aug/02/who-next-doctor-who-sunday <-- they have some guesses as well [08:55] I read a little about it [08:55] Peter Capaldi would be brilliant [08:56] SuperMatt: he talked a lot about accountability, but as some people pointed-out, the court cases in which they obtain authorisation to see people's e-mail etc. are secret [08:56] would just be a shame he can't use the language he used on The Thick of It [08:56] Idris Elba would make a superb Doctor. [08:57] ooh yeah [08:58] dwatkins: I strongly suggest you grab a copy of The Colbert Report from 31/07, because it *extremely* accurately portrays what is wrong with the NSA and the Bradley Manning trial [08:59] thanks SuperMatt, will read with interest [08:59] it's a tv show [08:59] oh silly me ;) [08:59] * dwatkins adds the video to his watchlist [08:59] * dwatkins curses American date formats quietly under his breath [08:59] essentially, because Manning commited "espionage" he must have been working for the enemy. Who benefitted from the intelligence? The American public. Does that make the American public the enemy? Well, the way the NSA are spying them, it sure seems like they are [09:00] hooray for poxies [09:00] *proxies [09:00] I'm now using the immunicity proxy at home [09:00] poxy proxies [09:00] It probably won't matter who the new doctor is, long time fans will probably hate the new one until the series has been going for a full series and then will realise that it was a good choice [09:00] lol [09:01] is it still moffat? [09:01] sounds about right [09:01] From what little detail Gen. Alexander gave at the Blackhat keynote, it seems it should be impossible for the NSA to spy on people without justification, but I suspect there are ways around that. [09:01] DJones: I'm more concerned about the writers, actually - many recent episodes have been quite weak, imho [09:01] just say you have justification, then don't actually have it [09:01] "people" [09:01] I mean, who's checking? [09:01] i thought they justified spying on anyone foreign or anyone with contact with foreigners [09:01] i.e. us [09:01] (or: who does the auditor report to) [09:02] and then once you have some evidence, you can piece together a case to go all out on them [09:02] dwatkins: I'd agree with that, I thought the last series was a bit weak [09:02] MartijnVdS: it's apparently a matter of stopping this by having blocks in the network as well as people being audited and watched [09:02] and what did they say? they could only trace someone if they were 51% certain they were foreign? [09:02] which means they could trace me [09:03] dwatkins: sure, but if the auditor has no incentive to be fair/honest, you can't trust a system like that [09:03] MartijnVdS: indeed, you'd have to trust everyone up the chain [09:03] MartijnVdS: and their blocking system, and know it can't be circumvented [09:03] i LOLled at a thread on reddit yesterday. somebody got visited by the police because their ex-employer had found fishy stuff in the search history around the time of boston bombing. reddit got the wrong end of stick and spent all night doing google searches thiking the fbi would knock at their door within 20 minutes [09:04] lol [09:04] mungbean: I wondered about that - so it was basically a tip-off because they'd been searching backpacks and pressure cookers from work? [09:04] i.e. employer was overly paranoid and alerted the police [09:04] yeah, the guy had recently left their employement and the sysadmin probably was clearing up their pc and found stuff [09:05] probably reported it around the time of the bombing [09:05] ...and this is why I use my PC at home as a proxy ;) [09:05] Morning all [09:05] also depends on the manner in which the guy left their employ [09:05] and whether he had a beard [09:05] ah yes, obvious sign etc. [09:06] i just received a message from myspace. somebody signed up with my email address. [09:08] Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Ice Cream Sandwich Day! :-D [09:11] OMG, friday already?! +) where did the week go..... [09:11] Android 4.0? [09:12] mungbean: myspace still exists? [09:12] their email server does [09:12] create filter from message like this... [09:12] delete. [09:14] * MartijnVdS waits for the DHL man [09:17] MartijnVdS: anything exciting [09:17] MooDoo: tickets for F1 at Spa [09:18] how much are they? [09:18] they were €130ish when I bought them [09:18] I think they might have run out by now [09:19] big bucks [09:19] for the whole w/end? [09:19] yes, including GP2, GP3 and Porche Supercup races [09:43] yay, tickets are here [09:43] yay [09:43] woop [09:50] what's ionice pri 4? [09:50] The scheduling class. 0 for none, 1 for real time, 2 for best-effort, 3 for idle. [09:51] ah, the class is set to none [09:54] no all amazon albums are autoripped? [09:55] no [09:56] swines [09:56] the cd i awnt is at home [09:58] mungbean: isn't it on spotify or grooveshark? [09:58] adverts :( [09:59] which album? [09:59] i turn the sound down and forget to turn up again [10:00] http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002YTZPRS [10:00] wasn't that cheap when i bought it :( [10:01] mungbean: well there's bbc iplayer + proms :P [10:01] (radio iplayer) [10:01] digging out some other stuff instead [10:03] ugh i bought joseph's dreamcoat musical for my wife and its on my cloudplayer list :( [10:07] joseph's dreamcast? [10:08] andrew lloyd wiiber [10:09] oh..new command for the day. echo $$ [10:09] pid of current shell [10:09] useful for sudo ionice -c3 -p$$ [10:09] new command for the day: LD_SHOW_AUXV=1 /bin/true [10:10] what's that? [10:10] Good morning peeps :) [10:10] (much more useful on ARM) [10:10] dwatkins: AUXV? [10:10] AT_HWCAP: swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp thumbee neon vfpv3 [10:10] :) [10:11] AT_HWCAP: bfebfbff [10:11] dwatkins: that's the specific ARM bits required to run the binary? [10:11] uh [10:11] directhex: ^ [10:11] MartijnVdS, that's the specific arm capabilities of the platform executing the binary [10:12] MartijnVdS, it's a much more portable way to detect cpu capabilities than /proc/cpuinfo (/proc/cpuinfo doesn't work in qemu) [10:12] directhex: so.. similar to Flags in /proc/cpuinfo ;) [10:13] /proc/cpuinfo in an arm chroot or qemu generally shows your host cpu's values [10:13] i.e. values like "sse2" which are meaningless on arm, and no values like "vfpv3" which mean things on arm [10:14] really? weird :) [10:15] Does that set the variable then run /bin/true, and the exit code depends on whether the variable could be set or not? [10:16] dwatkins: it sets the environment variable just for the execution of /bin/true [10:16] ah ok, just wondered how its output might be anything other than truth [10:19] Anyone know the way to remove an icon from the systray in JFace / SWT ? [10:21] MartijnVdS: there's no way to know what extensions are needed to run a binary, short of disassembling it and looking at what instructions it uses [10:21] ali1234: The compiler that made the binary might know which extensions it used, and put it somewhere in the metadata [10:21] dwatkins, it sets the variable then runs /bin/true. the Linux linker, ld.so, detects that environment variable & spams the values to the screen. you could use *any* executable, really, but /bin/true is minimal enough not to produce its own spew [10:22] MartijnVdS: just because the compiler used some set of flags, doesn't mean that it had any effect on the output [10:23] ali1234: the compiler knows which instructions it used, right/ [10:23] it's not that simple [10:23] http://www.olli-ries.com/i-have-to-try-this/ [10:23] let's use Mono as the example (any JITter applies equally, i just know mono internals better) [10:23] try unity 8 today [10:23] you might know what flags mono is built with - but which instructions does it emit when executed? [10:24] directhex: true.. [10:24] well a JIT is just going to make it even more complicated [10:24] http://blog.alexrp.com/2013/07/21/recent-improvements-to-mono-on-arm/ is interesting and related [10:25] yeah and then you have executables which have optimized instructions which are protected from being called if the CPU doesn't support it [10:26] so really even disassembling isn't enough to know "will the binary run on this cpu" [10:26] unless you actually look at the output and determine how it was compiled [10:38] clearly youtube has detected that i've watched too many videos this morning, so it has decided not to play any more for me [10:38] the video pages load just fine, but it doesn't play videos any more [10:38] youtube = skynet [10:39] the revolution has begun [10:39] you on talktalk? [10:39] argh [10:39] people shouldn't send emails directly from the camera phone [10:39] mungbean: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha [10:39] someone just sent a 10 meg email to 150 people [10:39] which means 1.5 gig has just been used [10:39] not from their phone though [10:39] neuro: does it say, "how about a nice game of chess" [10:40] email is just the worst [10:40] SuperMatt: you know how email works, right? :) [10:40] yes, I do [10:40] bit of friday fun people http://regexcrossword.com/ [10:41] it all depends on the config how attachments are stored [10:41] mungbean: actually, there's a knock at the door, hang on ... ooh, there's an american cop asking me if i've seen some kid [10:41] but *many* aren't configured to share the attachments [10:41] SuperMatt: ? [10:41] you just seem to imply that someone sending a 10 meg email to 150 people has used up 1.5G of bandwidth [10:42] yes, it had [10:42] *has [10:42] yes, that's true in aggregate [10:42] because everyone downloaded the email [10:42] and the contents? [10:42] oh you mean this is on the same email system/ [10:42] * mungbean is confused too [10:43] i thought you meant some one with a phone had emailed 150 other random people not on the same email system [10:43] not everyone downloaded the attachments [10:44] my gripe is that users are idiots and don't realise why big attachments can be bad [10:44] yay youtube is playing again [10:44] what u watching? [10:44] i thouht u were working? [10:44] MooDoo: I started with a hard one.. done already [10:44] * mungbean has a week off next week [10:44] including no irc [10:45] mungbean: we'll miss you! [10:45] :P [10:45] *may use irc [10:45] if get fed up of talking to kids [10:46] thats not nice. i mean, if i need more variety [10:46] i am working but i'm sick of looking at scripts so i took a 20 minute youtube break [10:46] neuro> clearly youtube has detected that i've watched too many videos this morning, so it has decided not to play any more bigcalm [10:46] are you playing loads in parallel? [10:46] yeah, i'd watched like 4 3 minute videos [10:47] i still haven't sorted my nfs server problem :( [10:47] who are you, my HR manager? :) [10:47] * bigcalm looks in [10:47] sorry bigcalm , copy paste fail [10:47] Ah, okay [10:47] * bigcalm looks out [10:47] nothing to see here [10:47] * bigcalm watches some YouTube vidoes [10:49] actually, when i say youtube break, i mean cig break with some youtube :) [10:50] everyone should be sitting back for a couple of minutes at least every hour anyway [10:50] sitting in front of a keyboard staring at a screen for 8 hours a day isn't good for you [10:50] i find its mostly smokers who sat that [10:50] um, no [10:50] i don't mean get up, leave the room [10:51] i mean sit back, look away from the screen, refocus your eyes on other stuff around you [10:51] as a hobby, smoking has got to be one of the least rewarding, judging by cost [10:51] don't remind me [10:51] yeah, i'm in a basement with an upskirt window beside me [10:51] sitting around 5ft below ground level [10:52] i have a week off irc next week too [10:52] its usually male cyclists and bin men who sem to be presenting their posteriors to me though ;( [10:52] gonna try and put the laptop away and build my lancaste [10:52] hmmm, Ace Combat Infinity, PS3 only, free to play, comes out in September [10:52] not sure how i feel about that [10:53] <- Ace Combat geek [10:54] I want a hot tub holiday :-( but life and timing sucks at the moment [10:54] i will be mostly gardening and sharing the childcare [10:56] I will mostly be sitting in tapas bars eating tapas and drinking wine and / or beer [10:56] spain? [10:56] popey: Sangria! [10:56] popey: (oh wait, you weren't at that proto-UDS ;)) [10:56] avoid the san miguel [10:57] popey: The post-4.10 "UDS" in Mataro was a very sangria-rich experience 8-) [10:57] estrella dam ftw [10:58] actually all spanish beers make my tummy rot [10:58] mungbean: you can order some Dutch ones instead [10:58] :P [10:58] specifically this one:- http://bit.ly/16Ml2Up [10:59] If I was a Boss, I'd probably buy smokers e-ciggies and ban them from taking incendiary smoke breaks [10:59] popey: next to a pharmacy.. to cure the hangover? ;) [10:59] Let them argue about that one.... [10:59] that's discriminatory, and thus illegal [10:59] Hmm [10:59] Maybe just buy them e-cigs and let them use them in the office [11:00] its not discriminatory [11:00] to ban smoking [11:00] you'd force people to smoke e-cigs? [11:00] No [11:00] since he will ban smking for everyone [11:00] neuro: no, they can also just sit there not smoking anything [11:00] I work for the NHS - we already have rules that our staff are not permitted to smoke in the building, near the building, or when they are visibly identifiable as NHS employees (ie - wearing their badge) [11:01] I imagine the doctors and nurses don't generally smoke? [11:01] Giving them a means of filling their nicotine craving without the distracting and counterproductive breaks seems to be anti-discriminatory [11:01] SuperMatt: of course they do [11:01] though I'm sure that contractors do [11:02] smkoing amonst nursing/doctors is huge [11:02] SuperMatt: you'd be surprised [11:02] more than other professions [11:02] Oh hell, yes, most of the nurses I've dated smoked like chimneys [11:02] lol [11:02] sounds like u get around [11:02] really? I would have thought seeing cancerous lungs, and people only able to breath with aid, that they would be put off it [11:02] In the past [11:03] I was a doctor once - I'd say the stress drives you into drinking / smoking more than average [11:03] oh right [11:03] if you've never smoked , i wonder why you'd think you'd need a fag [11:03] I've never been a smoker but I have had periods when I'd drink for stress reasons [11:03] awilkins: you can't ban smokers from taking smoke breaks [11:03] nor can you ban them from smoking, full stop [11:03] I was told by my GP once that I should go drinking more [11:03] sure you can [11:03] I had terrible stress headaches [11:04] what you *can* do is ban smoking *on the premises* [11:04] e.g. at the front door, on the grounds, etc [11:04] "your precribed hours are X" "your break time is Y" [11:04] neuro, It's already illegal in the UK to smoke in any working premises [11:04] Whether you work there or not [11:04] awilkins: i didn't say "in" [11:04] i worked with somebody that didn't touch a fag all day, then chain smoked at home [11:04] you can discipline staff for taking excessive breaks [11:04] neuro, I know - we can't ban it we just make it very inconvenient [11:04] but talking about e-cigs is irresponsible [11:05] especially considering they are potentially unhealthy [11:05] I was thinking if you made it easier for them not to have to take a smoke break, that would improve productivity [11:05] mungbean: i'm kinda like that [11:05] They are way less unhealthy than incendiary ones [11:05] do we have any good studies on that? [11:05] because I've started to notice *kids* smoking them [11:05] why? [11:05] wtf [11:05] yeah [11:05] No studies. But the majority of carcinogens in burning fags come from the burning process [11:05] because it's legal for them to do so [11:05] http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/06June/Pages/e-cigarettes-and-vaping.aspx [11:06] e-cigs are currently unlicensed [11:06] does it make you feel nice? [11:06] i'm sure other things do too [11:06] like riding a bike [11:06] and playing xbox [11:06] Smoke contains this vast chemical cocktail of nasty things with ring-molecules of carbon in [11:06] Nicotine is a neurotoxin, sure, but not a carcinogen [11:07] SuperMatt: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/Scienceresearch/UCM173250.pdf [11:07] please, do continue to elucidate on the badness of smoking [11:07] while i spark up this marlboro gold ... [11:07] SuperMatt: so you're suggesting some kids are maybe starting the hobby straight onto e-cigs? [11:07] hobby? [11:07] "hobby", eh [11:07] well thats how it starts [11:08] its not a habit on your first fag [11:08] or the 10th [11:08] Hmm, that study is like comparing a study of a clean room to a study of a foundry floor [11:08] yes, definitely a hobby [11:08] mungbean: yup [11:09] An activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure. [11:09] now, if that means they go on to real cigaretts, that's a bad thing [11:09] They have a nice clean piece of apparatus and use a gas chromatograph... with burning fags they study "tars" - which sounds cleaner.... [11:09] hahahahahahahahahahahahaha [11:09] if it actually keeps kids off cigarettes, then we have to look at the impact of that [11:09] mungbean: so you'd call going out to the pub a "hobby"? [11:09] The baccy companies have successfully lobbyed the UK to classify the ecigs as medical devices now though [11:09] yes, its a pastime [11:10] anything done recreationally to pass the time is a hobby, I would have thought [11:10] That will make them stupidly expensive instead of the current "pretty cheap" compared to fags (mostly because of the tax) [11:10] or maybe i'd call it socialising [11:10] It's a drug habit [11:10] i'm smoking by myself, how is it socialising? [11:10] A socially accepted one [11:10] the pub with friends is socialising [11:10] But a drug habit, like ethanol, caffeine [11:10] *starting* e-cigs is a hobby [11:11] People make their own concoctions for them - that seems rather more hobbyist than buying tobacco [11:11] They even make nicotine free ones [11:11] smoking never starts as a habit [11:11] The psychological component of the act of inhalation etc can't be dismissed [11:12] Smoking is sufficiently disgusting that the only sensible explanations of taking it up are peer pressure and nicotine addiction [11:12] you could call it a hobby of self-euthanasia ;) [11:12] awilkins: but when does nicotine additction start? [11:12] awilkins: clearly, you're not a smoker [11:13] neuro, No, my father was, so I lived with it much of my life [11:13]