brobostigongood morning eveyrone,09:22
brobostigonmorning MartijnVdS09:29
MartijnVdSheh, I wonder if this is right, or if someone Oopsed:10:03
MartijnVdSI dumped my graphics bios (intel_bios_dump), and am now reading it with intel_bios_read10:03
MartijnVdSThe HDMI ports show:10:03
MartijnVdS                Device type: 0x60d2 (DVI-D)10:03
MartijnVdS                Info: DisplayPort10:03
MartijnVdSthe DP port shows:10:03
MartijnVdS                Device type: 0x60d6 (DisplayPort/HDMI/DVI)10:03
MartijnVdS                Info: DVI10:03
=== mrparry__ is now known as mrlukeparry
MartijnVdSoh the puns11:42
shaunoI must confess, I don't quite understand why you'd want an app for your potty in the first place12:00
penguin42shauno: Indeed, or how you clean your phone after you use the app12:01
=== G4MBY2 is now known as Paulw2U
=== Paulw2U is now known as PaulW2U
SuperEngineera'noon peeps12:37
penguin42Hey Supers12:38
SuperEngineerhi penguin42 SuperMatt12:39
SuperEngineerthe strangest coincidences happen sometimes...12:39
SuperEngineerjust as some bloke called billy b deletes a g+ a/c - some strange person called Su Peren-Gineer opens one!12:40
penguin42let me guess, oddly they thought billy b wasn't a valid name?12:41
* penguin42 expects Su Peren-Gineer to produce the passport etc12:41
SuperEngineerno - a long time ago they though "superengineer" & "super engineer" were not real!12:41
SuperEngineeroh revenge is a dish best served....12:42
penguin42who would doubt it?12:42
penguin42SuperEngineer: I had my Dr at the start of my G+ name and had to remove it12:42
SuperEngineerpenguin42: lol12:43
SuperEngineerannoyingly, 1 week after I was notified superengineer wasn't "real" I found they then a private company called by same name abroad have it!!12:43
SuperEngineeragain... oh revenge is a dish best served....12:43
penguin42and I'm fairly sure they added that rule years after I created my account12:44
SuperEngineerditto here!12:44
SuperEngineerthat's how G treat the early adopters - loyalty means nowt12:44
daftykins:o you're a Dr. Penguin? neat :)12:46
SuperEngineer[he meant to a dd a "who" after "Dr."?12:47
daftykinsugh leave that overrated series alone ¬_¬12:47
SuperEngineerdaftykins: it's only over ratyed if you don't come from another planet... like what I do!12:48
daftykinsoh that old chestnut :(12:48
daftykinsi forgot you are our resident fruitcake!12:48
ali1234billy b chops?12:48
ali1234who would think this is not a valid name?12:48
SuperEngineeryup - old indeed - been telling people that evr since grammar school!12:49
SuperEngineerali1234: it was super engineer / superengineer they claimed did not exist - yet they let this non-existent person know he didn't exist!12:51
SuperEngineernow who's crazy, eh, G+!12:51
ali1234i don't even12:51
penguin42SuperEngineer: Search doesn't find Su12:54
SuperEngineerdaftykins: ...and proud of it - tho beware, I have been known for some exceptional wisdoms [& modesty]  ;)12:54
SuperEngineerhmm - how long before they catch up? yhey do say there is a lag showig up new a/cs12:55
SuperEngineerpenguin42: "Su" should show 100's of Sues etc surely?12:56
SuperEngineertry Peren-Gineer12:56
penguin42SuperEngineer: No, Peren-Gineer doesn't find anything12:57
SuperEngineeri would try myself but I doubt that would work from own a/c12:57
SuperEngineer...in which case their warning is correct - may take a while12:58
SuperEngineer[unless they're looking thru name databases of all known countries for an Peren-Gineer of course!12:58
penguin42SuperEngineer: Give them a phone number and ask them to call you and put on a suitably fruity accent12:58
SuperEngineerooo *that* might work!12:59
* SuperEngineer wonders if G m,onitor this channel & are busy deleting me! - nah!!!!13:03
penguin42SuperEngineer: Well the channel is logged publicly , and google indexes it....13:03
SuperEngineerso.. dear G -  I can think of another monitoring orginisation beginning with "G" - hmmmmmm?13:05
penguin42SuperEngineer: Just wait until you get tax requests for Su13:06
SuperEngineercan't hurt more than my current ones!13:07
SuperEngineerpenguin42: they already seem to think I should twice!13:07
penguin42that seems rather unfair13:07
SuperEngineer*pay twice13:07
SuperEngineerpenguin42: your comment is more polite than the one I use every time a tax notify comes through letterbox!13:08
penguin42SuperEngineer: Is it a Buttle/Tuttle type screw up?13:09
SuperEngineerbeen in "frank discussions" with them over 2 years "discussing" my opinion of their tax codong - they still haven't sent a plain English explanation after 2 years13:10
* SuperEngineer is slightly less than iompressed13:11
penguin42yeh there's absolutely no way of getting them to do anything sane as far as I can tell13:12
* penguin42 spent some time a while ago sorting out when they screwed up and said I owed tax on interest on an account - which they only gave a few digits from; turned out to be an ISA I'd closed years before13:13
SuperEngineerathough a long while ago they added someone else's work to my a/c and I ended up having to threaten court action under several charges before they stopped13:13
SuperEngineer..nearly time for a repeat of history methinks13:13
penguin42hth do you threaten court against the tax man?13:14
SuperEngineer...a paranoid person might think this is them getting revenge]13:14
SuperEngineerpenguin42: very politely & professionally13:14
ali1234a council once tried to take me to court over unpaid council tax13:14
ali1234first i heard about it was the summons13:14
ali1234i sent thema copy of the receipt for tax paid and a notice i would contest the charge13:15
ali1234they rapidly cancelled the summons and dropped the complaint13:15
SuperEngineerali1234: in the days of poll tax I was a regular reader of Computer Weekly reg [was a programmer then] -013:15
SuperEngineer..it gave me the exact state of chaos of my local tax office pootersa every week13:16
SuperEngineerheld back paymeny until last moment as passive protest - without danger ;)13:16
SuperEngineerali1234: surprising how the stance of a persomn in the right - with proof of being right - frightens them13:17
ali1234it's not surprising at al13:18
ali1234i find it is the best way to deal with bureaucracy13:18
SuperEngineerali1234: +113:18
ali1234if you are in the right, don't expend any more effort than necessary13:18
ali1234just give them enough rope to hang themselves with13:19
SuperEngineerali1234: again +1 to that as well13:19
SuperEngineerSo... anyone know if Leisure Suoite13:20
ali1234i got similar nonsense from the tv licensing people actually... at a different place though13:20
ali1234they claimed that i had to pay two tv licenses for 123A and 123B13:20
ali1234there was no A and B of course13:20
ali1234i just totally ignored that one13:20
daftykinsTV licensing is pretty frustrating13:21
ali1234since the letters didn't have my name on, just "the occupier" - to acknowledge them would validate their claim that those addresses actually existed13:21
SuperEngineerali1234: that made me literally lol!13:21
ali1234it makes me wonder though, how many vulnerable people with poor memory are paying TV license twice because of the scare tactics they use13:22
penguin42ali1234: Same with the tax guys - people get a letter saying they owe so much money on particular accounts, all looks official - then you start digging and find it's rubbish13:23
ali1234i've never had a problem with HMRC... yet13:24
daftykinsour local tax is terrible13:24
daftykinstake 5+ months to respond to letters calling out their mistakes13:24
penguin42ali1234: Lucky you13:25
SuperEngineerThankyou for calling HMRC. Press 0 if you are calling about an ongoing problem. Now press 1 if it has been ongoing for 1 year, press 2 if it has been ongoing for 2 years, press 3...13:29
penguin42press z if you want to wait for another year13:29
SuperEngineeroh if only13:29
SuperEngineerOn the bright side - you all owe me a vote of thanks for paying off the national debt all by myself13:31
* penguin42 thought he was doing that13:33
daftykinsnot my government, sorry13:33
SuperEngineerno politics!13:33
daftykinsi'm just saying i can't thank you when it's not my gov :)13:34
ali1234you know that rubbery coating then use on phones etc? what is it called?13:37
ali1234and why does it melt after a couple of years?13:37
SuperEngineerali1234: it's called "notfireproofsodontleavemebytheheaterplease"13:38
ali1234it doesn't melt from heat13:38
ali1234it seems to react badly with skin oils13:38
SuperEngineerooo - cold hands! - VAMPIRE ALERT13:38
SuperEngineerali1234: skin  oils?  basic design flaw if so13:39
ali1234basically it dissolves into something roughly the same as when a rubber band melts into good13:39
ali1234yeah so what i want to do is find out what the hell the stuff is so i can find some other chemical to clean it off before it goes bad13:39
penguin42ali1234: I guess it's some kind of mixture of stuff and they eventually separate13:40
SuperEngineerali1234: isopropyl alcohol?13:40
ali1234nope, doesn't work13:40
ali1234acetone works but damages the plastic underneath13:40
SuperEngineer[only guessing - not sure]13:40
ali1234when it goes bad it has the consistency of chewed chewing gum13:41
SuperEngineerolive oil?13:41
SuperEngineer...with care13:41
MartijnVdSyou want to get rid of oils13:41
penguin42then soap?13:41
ali1234soap doesn't work13:41
SuperEngineeryup - that's how the Romans knew it cleared yukky stuff - but the oil needs removing cleaning13:42
* penguin42 can see ali1234 taking his phone into the shop to be repaired and the tech smelling it13:42
alistairhello, there was a midi module different to snd-virmidi (which doesnt work once installed) which gives 16 internal midi through channels, does anybody know what it is called?13:42
ali1234it's never a problem on phones inside warranty13:42
ali1234it takes about 6-8 years to go bad13:42
ali1234but they are using it on everything these days13:43
ali1234i've got an electric drill which has it on the andle which is starting to go13:43
MartijnVdShttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_fuel :)13:43
SuperEngineeron a drill handle try wet&dry / glass paper?13:44
SuperEngineerno delicates nearby to damage13:44
ali1234^ people describe the issue13:44
ali1234yeah sand paper doesn't work... it's like trying to sand paper chewing gum13:45
ali1234it just clogs the paper13:45
* SuperEngineer scrubs that idea then13:45
ali1234the only way i know to get it off is to scrape it off with a knife and that still takes ages13:45
SuperEngineerLixton fluid?13:46
penguin42haha reference to Andromeda Strain13:46
ali1234i wish they wouldn't use this stuff, whatever it is13:47
MartijnVdSali1234: urethane rubber13:47
SuperEngineerLixton fluid  =  real good at cleaning things like rubberised / synthesised rubberised products to remove all yuk13:47
penguin42I think I'd try and coat over it13:47
ali1234hmm so basically, ammonia13:47
MartijnVdSali1234: and even then it's only temporary13:48
ali1234it's not13:48
ali1234i have a few things which i have entirely stripped the coating off13:48
MartijnVdSit's not?13:48
ali1234underneath it's normal plastic13:48
MartijnVdSbut you can't "fix" the rubber13:48
ali1234i don't want to13:48
MartijnVdSnot permanently anyway13:48
ali1234i want to remove it13:48
ali1234the rubber is only a very very thin coating, probaby less than 0.1mm13:49
ali1234it serves no purpose at all other than to make the product feel like it is higher quality than it actually is13:50
SuperEngineerLixton fluid  =  real good at cleaning things like rubberised / synthesised rubberised products to remove all yukthen13:50
SuperEngineerali1234: change the casing - add external casing? forget the bad design underneath13:50
SuperEngineer..or would that make phone /drill unuseable?13:50
ali1234pretty much13:51
MartijnVdSreplace the rubber with sugru :P13:51
ali1234another example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Pw8vHjgcw13:52
SuperEngineerali1234: a few years back I was on a course...13:53
ali1234neuro: melty rubber coating13:53
neuroew, i'm *eating*13:53
SuperEngineerwas related a tale about cleaning certain things [can't say]13:54
ali1234this guy sanded his mouse down13:54
neuro[stealth bombers]13:54
penguin42poor thing13:54
ali1234there should be a way to remove the rubber without damaging the plastic underneath13:54
SuperEngineer...they sent a samble off to labs and asked for ways to clean without destroying13:54
ali1234i mean if the rubber is dissolving but the plastic underneath is fine, then there must be some solvent which will dissolve the rubber properly without harming the plastic13:55
SuperEngineer...a long chemical formula was returned as the required "cleaner". response was - but what is that?13:55
SuperEngineerMr Sheen cleaner!13:55
SuperEngineer..idea: if you get the one with hard bits in , it might remove the rubber stuff13:56
ali1234i keep finding more and more stuff with this rubbery crap on it now i'm actually looking13:56
ali1234and nearly all of it is starting to go sticky13:57
penguin42definitely the andromeda strain13:57
ali1234the volume control knob on my speakers13:57
ali1234a load of pens with rubbery grips13:57
ali1234the nexus 7 back cover even has it13:58
ali1234that's not old enough to be melting yet13:58
ali1234but it will13:58
penguin42you probably find it's contagious - you transfer the goo off one of them to another via your hands and that starts the other one leaching13:58
ali1234very likely13:58
SuperEngineer...and some car dashboard knobs have it13:58
penguin42SuperEngineer: and then the tyres....13:58
ali1234yeah that's the thing13:58
ali1234actual rubber objects seem unaffected13:59
ali1234only plastic objects with the thin coating seem affected13:59
SuperEngineerpenguin42: you're driving far enough if your tyres desolves before wearing out!  ;)13:59
ali1234it could be because the thin layer easily breaks down13:59
ali1234or it could be a different type of rubber13:59
ali1234leather seems to accelerate the breakdown14:00
ali1234ie using a leather case on a phone14:00
neurostupid kernel updates14:00
SuperEngineerali1234: surely that's the friction effect with the leather outer?14:01
SuperEngineerouter = case14:01
* penguin42 decides to finish off his sorbet, I don't think it's going to get warm again14:02
ali1234hmm maybe14:02
ali1234or it could be something to do with the tanning process, or it could even be fake plastic leather leeching chemicals14:02
ali1234latter probably more likely14:02
* neuro sighs14:02
daftykinsaww what's up neuro?14:03
neurobrought up my irc proxy vm14:03
neuroafter migrating it to a new iscsi datastore14:03
neuroand it needed a kernel update :P14:03
neuroso had to do a reboot there14:03
neurohence the grumble and discon/recon14:04
neurobut oh how i love esxi :)14:04
daftykinsyou run one at home?14:04
neurobut i've migrated everything off local datastores onto a synology nas iscsi target14:05
neuroso i can shut one down14:05
neuroelectricity-- ftw14:05
daftykinstwo at home, crikey14:06
SuperEngineerwhoops - promised neighbour I'd go for a drink with - see yazall in an hour[ish] folkjs14:06
daftykinswhat are you running there :P14:06
daftykinsSuperEngineer: hf14:06
neurodaftykins: not much: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/grabs/Screen%20Shot%202013-08-04%20at%2015.06.09.png14:07
daftykinsnice little testbed i see14:07
neuronot really14:07
daftykinsalso i don't think you've got enough in the system tray14:08
neurocochrane is my irc proxy and LAN dhcpd, copernicus is an old test win98 vm, fearless is my old mail server, hathaway is my server config master host and BT ingress box, intrepid is my general shell box and Sky ingress box, memoryalpha is me thinking about replacing intrepid, shenandoah ... no idea what that was ;) and wormhole-gw is my main pfsense router for the house14:08
neuroso it's more production that lab14:10
daftykinswhat are the physical systems hosting them?14:10
neuromy old one is a dell dimension 5150 (Pentium D 2.8GHz, 4G RAM but only 3.2G visible)14:10
neurothe main one is some random zoostorm thing off ebuyer, Pentium G840 2.8GHz, 16G RAM14:11
neurointel dual GigE NIC on the old one, three intel GigE NICs on the new one, internal NICs disabled on both14:11
neuroand now a synology ds213j acting as datastore14:11
neurowhich is nice </fastshow>14:12
daftykinspretty elaborate stuff for home14:13
neuronot in my opinion14:14
neuroelaborate would have been to spend 500 quid on vsphere starter edition and built up a proper cluster14:14
daftykinswell i've got a file server that runs VMs, but it's a single box with vmware workstation atop it14:14
penguin42neuro: Are you multipathing the iscsi?14:14
neuroyeah, i didn't want my VMs to have a lot of OS underneath them14:14
daftykinshaving two boxes sounds like you're going for redundancy too XD14:14
neuropenguin42: not to my knowledge, no14:14
neurodaftykins: it's just a timeline thing14:15
neurohave been running the old dell since ~ 200914:15
neurogot the zoostorm last year14:15
neuroalways wanted to transition from one to t'other14:15
neuroonly really got the impetus to do it now14:15
neuroalso cheap nas14:15
neuronow i can turn off the old one for the first time in about 4 years (power cut in april notwithstanding)14:16
neuroin fact i've just powered it off14:18
daftykinsyou want a UPS there :)14:18
neuroheh yeah14:18
penguin42neuro: I got one of those zoostorm's for my dad - not bad for the price14:18
neuropenguin42: they're rubbish14:19
neurothe RAM was bad from the get go14:19
neurodidn't care that much as I was replacing it anyway14:19
neuroand the hard drive is failing14:19
neurowhich is partly why i wanted the VMs off the local storage14:19
penguin42neuro: Oh I think one of the DIMMs had bounced in transit - was fine when I pushed it back in14:19
neuronow i can replace the HDD with the 500G WD Black I bought at same time as NAS14:19
neurodo a full reinstall of ESXi14:19
neuroand then re-add the VMs to inventory from the iSCSI target14:20
daftykinsheh, yeah that's generally how it works ;)14:20
neuropenguin42: no, they were *bad*, i.e. proper bad, i.e. failed a memtest14:20
neurodaftykins: wouldn't have minded so much, as my important data (like homedirs etc) gets mounted onto my VMs over NFS from my other NASes14:21
neurobut it would cause my router VM to cark it every couple of weeks14:21
neurolots of weird disk timeout errors on the esxi logs14:21
neuroso that's the point where i really got driven to migrating everything onto network storage, and consolidate the VMs on one machine14:22
neurobut the replacing HDD job shall wait until next w/e :)14:22
* neuro spies a fellow he.net tunnelbroker user :)14:23
neuro2001:470:1f09:... ;)14:23
* penguin42 goes through a ubuntu-kernel config - are there ANY ubuntu arcnet users?15:44
penguin42and calxeda drivers built on x8615:45
penguin42gah I searched for a spare part for my dads razor and now I've got a spare part site offering me entirely random sets of spares for anything16:04
daftykinsso many spammy sites that waste your time when trying to do such things now16:07
daftykinslike those google results that link to somebody searching for <x> on their site ¬_¬16:07
penguin42to be fair I think the site did actually have the thing I wanted - but more than amazon so I bought it from amazon16:08
penguin42but now they're going to try and sell me it for months16:08
neuroit's the sites that purport to have loads of user manuals on them that wind me up16:10
daftykinsah yes16:12
neuroedge is now $5.9m off the pace :(16:17
penguin42neuro: Just have to see if Mark puts the remainder in at the end16:18
penguin42...or the devs employed on it16:18
neuro"New tier: sabdfl-only tier, $32m - $however_much_is_in_the_kitty"16:18
daftykinssomeone was saying he'd end up putting in tonnes even if it hit the limit16:19
daftykinsso he can't really finish it himself16:19
neuro25% raised with 41% campaign time passed16:20
daftykinsstill crawling along i see16:20
neuroif it completes, it vindicates the choice of crowdfunding16:20
neuroif it fails and nothing happens afterwards, it says crowdfunding was a bad choice16:21
neuroif it fails and sabdfl funds the shortfall, it still says crowdfunding was a bad choice16:21
daftykinswould it not be more of a reflection on the product?16:21
neuroi don't think so16:21
penguin42neuro: Well the other question to ask is where the $32M figure came from16:21
neurothere's plenty of interest in the phone16:21
neurothere's been no real breakdown or explanation as to how the money would be spent16:22
neuroother than "it'll all go to make the phones" (paraphrase)16:22
neuroand imho the campaign has been badly mishandled16:22
neurowith all these random tiers being introduced at odd times16:22
neuroand the t-shirts ... *facepalm*16:22
neurooh and the best bit, if they make $32m on the nose, they won't really have $32m in hand (indiegogo fees aside)16:24
neurobecause they're refunding the difference between the $830 cost and the lower cost16:24
penguin42neuro: I mean I assume there was some slack in it to ensure they had enough to do what they wanted16:24
neurobut we have no idea16:25
neurobecause there's no outline of how the funding will be deployed16:25
daftykinsalmost time for LAS16:25
neuroand it seems (but it's not clear) that only those who bought the $3830 perk *before* the graduated tier limit was introduced will get refunded16:26
neuroso if you buy an $830 one now, you won't get anything back16:26
neuroit's all very confusing16:26
penguin42neuro: I guess some of it is rightly commercially confidential - like how much you have to pay to factories to make things or design whatever16:26
neurobut they have a "habit of openness and transparency"16:26
neuroit's all very weird to me16:27
penguin42yeh but I can see there being limits to that; you wouldn't put peoples salaries up there and you couldn't put how much you were prepared to pay vendors because then you couldn't negotiate for cheaper16:27
neuroyou can guesstimate though16:28
neurobut that's all we can do16:28
neuroand do you really think they don't already have a manufacturer lined up?16:28
neuro"we have experienced operators and manufacturing partners in place"16:29
neuro"We’ve been working with manufacturers and carriers, so everything we need is already in place. We also have a team based in Taiwan where the bulk of the production will occur"16:29
neurothey don't need to bid amongst manus to get cheaper pricing16:29
neurothey know who they're working with16:29
neuroso they'll know the costs16:29
neurootherwise, why stick a finger in the air and say "ummmm ... $32m?"16:30
penguin42it's a power of 2?16:30
neuroi really don't want to fund a manufacturing project with a product as an end goal that makes geek jokes out of the funding level, especially at *that* amount :)16:30
neuroi don't know ... as much as I like Canonical and want them to succeed at all things, especially Ubuntu-related ones, I think this is a clusterfrak waiting to happen16:31
penguin42neuro: Not sure, I mean they're going high spec so it'll certainly push some tech along so that could be good - I won't be buying one because I'm too mean16:32
neuroi won't be buying one because I prefer the iOS ecosystem, and I don't have the spare cash to blow on a phone just to play on16:32
neuroif I'm buying a phone now, I'm buying it to use every day16:32
neurobeen burned by buying random phones in the past (hello Nokia E71, Samsung Galaxy S2)16:33
daftykinswhat was wrong with the S2? they seem quite capable smartphones even toda16:33
* penguin42 has an £80 android phone16:33
neurohated it16:33
neuroscreen too unwieldy, too plasticky, battery life awful, nasty OS, etc etc16:34
neurooh, and syncing to/from my mac with kies was a total joke16:35
daftykinsit's had a fair few updates of android over the years16:35
daftykinsif you tried to use their software to sync rather than the native device accounts, then you're kinda asking for trouble16:36
neuroum, ok?16:36
neurothat's a bad indictment of the ecosytem then, isn't it?16:36
daftykinsunless it was just files, like music you were syncing16:36
neuro"buy this awesome phone, but don't use the manufacturer supplied PC/Mac software"16:37
neuroit was all sorts of stuff including some music16:37
daftykinsno it's not, because Samsung Kies has nothing to do with Android16:37
neurobut it has everything to do with a Samsung Galaxy S216:37
neurohow is Average Joe Phone User supposed to tell the difference?16:37
daftykinsi think they'd be more inclined to just paste to the folders :)16:38
neuronot if they're told otherwise16:38
neuroe.g. by the instruction manual, the phone, the manufacturer ...16:38
daftykinsi don't tend to consider inexperienced users16:39
neurothen you're being selective to suit the needs of your argument16:39
daftykinsand you're not by choosing a user type to begin with?16:39
neuroi was pointing out the most common type of user16:39
daftykinsalso it's a discussion not an argument :D16:39
neuroargument. n. A fact or statement used to support a proposition; a reason.16:40
daftykinsseems a bit extreme to get down to dictionary definitions16:40
neuroi didn't say we were having *a* argument :)16:40
neuroyou're twisting the meaning of the word, it seemed a reasonable thing to do16:41
daftykinswe've somewhat tangented now though16:41
neurowell, *you* did ;)16:41
neuromaking me use wiktionary for goodness sake ;)16:41
daftykinsultimately i think a judgement of a phone based on one poor software utility it comes with that might be useful for some uses is a bit weak16:41
* neuro sighs16:41
daftykinsproblem? :)16:42
Myrtti"I will not buy non-Nexus Android devices. I will not buy non-Nexus Android devices. I will not buy non-Nexus Android devices." etc.16:42
neurokies being crap was one data point from many16:42
neuroor did you not read what I wrote?16:42
daftykinsoh yeah you did have other things16:42
neuro"screen too unwieldy, too plasticky, battery life awful, nasty OS, etc etc"16:42
daftykinsMyrtti: too true16:42
Myrtti(main reason why I don't is because I loathe the extra stuff the manufacturers smack on the Android, like the necessity of using stupid apps to do interaction between phone and computer16:42
neuroMyrtti: it was a good deal at the time16:43
penguin42Myrtti: I put cyanogenmod on my cheap phone - actually that's one reason I bought it16:43
daftykinsandroid back then is quite different to android today16:43
neuroi wanted a non-personal phone to use for business stuff16:43
neuroended up upgrading to an iphone 4s and using my old iphone 4 for that purpose16:43
daftykinsi could never get on with iOS, it's pretty terrible at feedback16:44
daftykinsyeah, like whether it's working on a process or not16:46
daftykinsyou're pretty rude neuro.16:47
neuroi'm not, you're just being economical with the things you're saying :)16:47
daftykinssometimes it'll just sit there like you didn't do anything, then maybe flash an error ages afterwards if you're for example - setting up an email account or something similar16:47
daftykinssame with a lot of OS X software in fact16:48
daftykinsthere's very little visual representation that it's 'working'16:48
neuroi just set up a mail account on my phone16:49
neuroi got a spinner with text telling me what it was doing when it was doing stuff16:50
neuro"Verifying ..."16:50
neuro"Adding account ..."16:50
neuroand usually when there is network activity while it's doing Stuff, a spinner appears in the top status bar16:50
daftykinsdepends what OS versions we're talking i guess16:51
neurowhatever the latest greatest is16:51
neuroit's always done that IME16:51
daftykinswell surely you can see the futility of that one comparison16:51
neuroenlighten me then?16:52
daftykinsi don't know, i'm not sure that that would be a valid use of time16:52
neuroso you're telling me i'm wrong because you say so?16:52
daftykinsultimately it boils down to the 'it works for me'16:52
neuroexcuse me while i don't put much weight on that :)16:53
neuroyou said the feedback was terrible16:53
neuroi just ran through the scenario you mentioned16:53
neurothe feedback seemed acceptable (yes, to me)16:53
Myrttiso, who's awaiting for the new doctor then?16:53
neuroi'm not sure how much more feedback would have been required16:53
daftykinsneuro: right but you're making a big jump to assume that what you're seeing is what i was seeing in my example16:54
daftykinsneuro: if you were working on a bug tracker would you tell all the people that their bugs are invalid because it 'works for me' ? :P16:54
neurosure, but i'm not sure how much different it could have been to be honest16:54
neuroit would depend how many people responded with "works for me"16:55
neuroand that's sometimes a valid response, as it permits responders and the submitter to work in different directions to find out what the root cause is, since it's either a non-repeatable issue or something wrong with the submitter's system16:55
neuros/repeatable/reproducable/ is what i meant to say there16:56
Myrttino one?16:56
neuroMyrtti: couldn't care less tbh16:56
daftykinsMyrtti: not a fan i'm afraid16:56
neuroi've gone right off who lately16:56
Myrttiso a duck walked into a pub16:56
neuroespecially with their DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUN end to the last episode16:56
daftykinsyou are an odd one16:57
neuroexcuse me?16:57
Myrttiand the barkeep asked what he wanted, and the duck said a beer please16:57
Myrttihaving served the beer to the duck he asked "how are you going to pay for it, you don't have pockets for the money"16:58
Myrtti"put it on my bill"16:58
neurosaw that coming a mile away :D16:58
Myrttiyeah, that was kinda the point16:58
neurodaftykins: please do elaborate on why i'm "odd"16:58
neuroMyrtti: a horse walks into a bar16:59
daftykinsprobably safer if i leave it there16:59
Myrttia photon walks into a hotel16:59
daftykinsplus LAS has almost started16:59
neurono, really16:59
neuroi'm interested16:59
Myrtti"do you have any luggage, sir?" "no, I'm traveling light"17:00
penguin42neuro: Actually, the horse walked into a macdonalds: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-2340393517:00
neurowhat the ...17:00
neurowhy not tie up the horses and go inside?17:01
neurowere they planning on eating their mcdonalds while riding away from the drive through?!17:01
daftykinsit was a complaint about the policy regarding drive-throughs17:01
daftykinsbecause you have to be in a car, which is quite frankly retarded17:01
Myrttiso a motorbike wouldn't be allowed then?17:01
neurothe drive through lane is for motor vehicles17:02
daftykinsmotorbikes aren't allowed either from what i remember reading, nah17:02
neurosome mcdonalds now have the lanes blocked off on the other side from the restaurant by parts of the car prk17:02
daftykinsi only briefly encountered this thing when i was at Uni17:02
daftykins'cause we don't have mcdonalds etc. down here17:02
daftykinsso i thought to myself once, hey why does the drive-through stay open later? can i cycle over and queue up? apparently not17:03
daftykinsnever tried though17:03
neuroand yes, they serve people on bikes and mopeds17:04
neurojust not pedestrians or bicycles17:04
neuroor horses17:04
daftykinspretty daft imo17:07
neuronot really17:07
neuroinsurance rationale most likely17:07
neurothe hassle if someone got hit by a car in the drive through lane would likely be epic17:07
neurobest just to have it laid down by policy that you can only be served from a motor vehicle17:08
daftykinsit's common sense daft17:08
daftykinsnot bureacratic crap daft17:08
neuroit's common sense, full stop17:08
daftykinswow you really are a one.17:08
daftykinsk i'm off to other channels17:08
neurowhat's your deal, sir?17:08
neuroare you trolling me or something?17:08
neuroclearly, the answer was "yes"17:10
penguin42apparently they were worried that horses might be startled by the motor vehicles17:23
shaunoa bit late to the party, but I used to walk-thru kfc's drive-thru17:52
penguin42so we have reference data for mcdonalds and kfc - any others?18:03
penguin42shauno: Did you try it on a horse?18:03
shaunoinsufficiently equipped for the task I'm afraid18:18
SuperEngineer...and the new Dr. Who is.... @linus_torvalds - & will be known as "the swearing Dr". [just pipped Mark Shuttleworth! at the post apparently]18:26
ali1234i would watch that18:33
ali1234it's the guy from luther though right?18:34
ali1234i guess not18:38
* penguin42 wiggles finger wildly trying to get something to crash on a touchscreen18:42
SuperEngineerpenguin42: take that finger out of there of there you naughty person!18:43
penguin42SuperEngineer: But I was making my (x)eyes go crosseyed!18:43
SuperEngineerpenguin42: :D18:43
SuperEngineerHas anyone tried Leisure Suite Larry on Steam in Ubuntu yet?18:46
* penguin42 notes IMDBs entry for Peter Capaldi states that in World War Z he played the W.H.O. Doctor18:47
SuperEngineer[as in - does it l=play or would I be wasting my pennies?]18:47
SuperEngineerpenguin42: that's good/clever research. like it!18:48
penguin42SuperEngineer: You have to wonder if they knew that when they cast him18:49
ali1234i still can't figure out what was supposed to have happened in the last two series18:49
penguin42ali1234: You weren't supposed to , you were just supposed to have watched it18:53
ali1234i feel like i missed an episode18:54
ali1234or several18:54
ali1234actually come to think of it's been that way since david tennant18:56
neurocan't wait for all the kiddies to go googling for peter capaldi ... this is the first video that shows up in the results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjAyazqtQj818:57
neurodanger, tis a malcolm tucker video18:57
neurohence VERY VERY sweary18:57
neurobut VERY VERY good18:57
neurofor less sweariness, i leave you with the happy plane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zVVKXT8Vi018:59
=== Hornet- is now known as Hornet
directhexhm, neil gaiman retweets ubuntu edge20:22
directhexthat's gotta be worth a few thou20:23
bigcalmGood evening peeps :)21:10

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