[12:21] <jjfrv8> elfy, are you around?
[12:24] <elfy> sort of 
[12:25] <elfy> jjfrv8: what's up?
[12:25] <jjfrv8> Quick question on the testcases. Do you want us to finish up the remaining bugs that are out there? I.E., will you be adding more testcases to the test tracker?
[12:26] <elfy> as far as I'm aware we've got everything - so I'll not be adding anything now 
[12:26] <jjfrv8> Okay, I had assigned Alacarte to myself.  Can I drop it? :)
[12:27] <elfy> jjfrv8: only 2 left 
[12:27] <elfy> you can if you need to - someone else will pick it up I expect :)
[12:28] <jjfrv8> Alrighty, that way I can focus on running instead of writing :)
[12:28] <elfy> cool :)
[17:55] <GridCube> Unit193, i tried the amd64 iso but grml would not find it after choosing it from the grub menu, retried using the i386 and it worked again
[17:56] <Unit193> Hrm, if you want me to I can test that method with one computer here later on.  ISO works though.
[17:56] <GridCube> well i dont have a pendrive though :(
[17:56] <GridCube> so i can't go that road
[17:58] <Unit193> I'd assume you did update-grub after sticking the ISO in the dir?
[18:45] <Unit193> Checking some of the referring links, several have bad information, and "The team is committed to updating..." Wut?  The bad information is recommending vbox testing.  Are news sites always this wrong? :P
[19:00] <skellat> Unit193: Who needs smacking around?
[19:00] <Unit193> Everyone? :D
[19:01] <skellat> Unit193: Which news sites, I mean
[19:02] <skellat> The script for Burning Circle 125 to be recorded tonight can't get any more emphatic that under no circumstances should any virtualization environment be used for testing the ISO.  I can't do much more to triple-underline it there.
[19:02] <Unit193> Some random unheard of ones, can pull a list if need be.
[19:04] <skellat> BC syndicates to Planet and, if I try very hard to stick exactly to the script, and I can ensure a transcript appears too
[19:06] <Unit193> Google translate not being the best, can't tell for sure if what http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lffl.org%2F2013%2F08%2Fxubuntu-disponibile-la-iso-con-il-nuovo.html seems to say is what it really does, but we're now going to have two xubuntu versions? ;)
[19:06]  * skellat is summoned by his recording engineer
[19:17]  * Unit193 wonders if he should tell pleia2 that you can't use the terminal that pops up on the live CD, guesses that'd be a bad idea, so doesn't.
[19:19]  * drc was wondering if anyone got that terminal to work.
[19:19] <Unit193> It's there only to show you the log. :P
[19:20] <Unit193> It made sense at the time™
[19:20] <pleia2> Unit193: you just exit the log
[19:21] <drc> Then maybe http://vanir.unit193.tk/mir/ should be revised to indicate that?
[19:21] <pleia2> Unit193: no need to be passive aggressive about pointing out error, we're all on the same side here to make the instructions clear
[19:21] <drc> I know I didn't have any clue :(
[19:21] <Unit193> pleia2: Was I?
[19:22] <pleia2> Unit193: yes
[19:22] <Unit193> Hrm, not what I was going for...
[19:23] <pleia2> I don't know why you think it would be a bad idea to tell me I'm mistaken about something
[19:23] <pleia2> you can just tell me, no need to action it
[19:23] <Unit193> Lets try it again.  If you hit q, the log will close as will the terminal, thus you won't be able to check in that terminal.  Ah, that was kidding about me having to find words to edit the page with, heh.
[19:23] <pleia2> I could have sworn I just exited the log and typed the command there, but I am fallible
[19:24] <pleia2> see, I was mistaken, it's ok :)
[19:24] <pleia2> want to update the page and then reply on list?
[19:24] <Unit193> You could have, but I don't see how as the command is  xfce4-terminal -x less logfile  (which I just tested and seems to close.)
[19:24] <Unit193> Dowh...
[19:24] <pleia2> yes, I was mistaken
[19:25] <Unit193> (In theory, it's a different version in saucy, so technically it could be that you are not mistaken!)
[19:25] <pleia2> skellat: you sent a mail to the list with an unsubbed list, shall I let it through or do you want to resend with a subbed address?
[19:25] <pleia2> s/unsubbed list/unsubbed address
[19:26] <pleia2> (I don't mind letting it through, just don't know if you intend to use that address in public)
[19:26] <skellat> pleia2: You can let it through.  The address is shown on my LP profile which is why it went through on the LoCo list just fine even though I didn't look.
[19:26] <pleia2> okie
[19:26] <Unit193> I take it s/type/run/ won't suffice?
[19:27] <pleia2> Unit193: I'd do this...
[19:27] <pleia2> After booting the system, a terminal window with the unity-system-compositor log will display.
[19:27] <pleia2> ^^ one line
[19:27] <pleia2> then ...
[19:27] <pleia2> To confirm that you are running XMir, open a new terminal and type: ps ax | grep system-comp
[19:29] <Unit193> Done.
[19:29] <drc> and maybe give them some sort of clue what they should see if they are running xmir?
[19:29] <pleia2> er, another whitespace?
[19:29] <pleia2> drc: the 'ps ax | grep system-comp' is really the only indicator
[19:29] <Unit193> Didn't think it needed it, but I will comply.
[19:30] <pleia2> Unit193: we want to make clear that people don't think those two things are related
[19:30] <pleia2> thanks :)
[19:30] <drc> pleia2: no, I mean the output of the command.
[19:30] <pleia2> drc: ah
[19:30] <Unit193> drc: Broken screen, you're running mir. ;)
[19:30] <pleia2> I guess we assume people know how grep works, huh :)
[19:30] <drc> Again, I had to ask, 'cause I din't have a clue
[19:31] <Unit193> Yes, I like to presume people know what grep is.
[19:32] <Unit193> pgrep system-comp && echo "Yep, I'm running XMir."    :-----D
[19:32] <drc> I know how grep works, I wanted to know what <specifically> I should be looking for
[19:33] <pleia2> Unit193: could do
[19:34] <Unit193> How it is now follows the official guidelines for how to test if it's running.
[19:35] <Unit193> pleia2: Want me to change thatpart to something as well?  (Asking, because you're better with public announcements/text/wording.)
[19:36] <Unit193> So far, only pad entries are from people I've seen on IRC, not as many as I'd hope based on how many are downloading. :/
[19:38] <pleia2> Unit193: 1. sorry, which wording where? for the 'ps' command we could just say something like "a line containing "system-compostor-unity" (or whatever it's called) should show up"
[19:38] <pleia2> 2. I have to collect reports people gave directly on G+/fb :\
[19:38] <GridCube> http://i.imgur.com/1z3IKvd.png
[19:38] <GridCube> :3
[19:38] <Unit193> 1. Alrighty.  2. Awwh, dangit.  No fun for you. :/
[19:38] <pleia2> mostly it's more of the same though, slowness, backspace weirdness when typing, showing text typed in screen during shutdown
[19:39] <Unit193> GridCube: That's the stuff!
[19:39] <pleia2> if someone wants to browse Mir bug reports and see if any of that has been reported before, we can me too it :)
[19:39] <GridCube> :P i though i should screenshot it for the ml
[19:39] <pleia2> I have it on my list to do later, but my list is massive
[19:39] <pleia2> if bug reports don't exist, we can write some
[19:40] <pleia2> then send bug reports + email in reply to Mir the Mir thread on list that included Mir pepole
[19:40] <Unit193> pleia2: I looked at a few, there were some about being slow but I think I thought they were unrelated (twice as much thinking, more likely to be wrong.)
[19:40] <GridCube> Unit193, theres some reports in the g+ page
[19:40]  * pleia2 goes to make video of XMir problems
[19:41] <GridCube> some here http://ubuntu-discourse.org/t/help-test-mir-for-xubuntu/897
[19:42] <Unit193> 'To confirm that you are running XMir, open a new terminal and type <code>ps ax | grep system-comp</code>.  You should see several lines of output with "unity-system-compositor" in them.'
[19:42] <GridCube> i like that xmir its not failing as much as i was expecting it to
[19:42] <GridCube> Unit193, link the screenshot i pasted
[19:42] <elfy> pleia2: you know how to add someone to etherpad?
[19:42] <Unit193> GridCube: I looked at the FB and G+ pages a couple times, Facebook seemed to be more "Nooo! Don't do it!" and discourse had nothing. :P
[19:42] <GridCube> elfy, they should be part of the etherpad group in launchpad
[19:43] <elfy> big sigh
[19:43] <pleia2> i approved a bunch of people this morning
[19:43] <elfy> pleia2: you know how to get it so someone can post to etherpad
[19:43] <elfy> https://launchpad.net/~steve-horsley
[19:43] <elfy> can you do him please
[19:43] <elfy> thanks :)
[19:43] <GridCube> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
[19:44] <pleia2> steve.horsley (steve-horsley) has been added as a member of this team.
[19:44] <elfy> GridCube: yea - but you can't add yourself to it afaik 
[19:44] <elfy> thanks pleia2 
[19:44] <GridCube> you can ask to join and pleia2 can accept ya
[19:44] <elfy> GridCube: not me :) it's someone else - and she did :) 
[19:45] <Unit193> ...I should really stop editing the live page, but added more instruction.
[19:45] <elfy> especially if it's just one person saying they don't understand ...
[19:45] <GridCube> Unit193, nah you keep editing all you need
[19:46] <Unit193> elfy: That was my thought. :P
[19:46] <elfy> tbh I didn't read the mail properly
[19:46] <Unit193> elfy: I will comply with whatever Lyz says though, she's the marketting/PR/whatever it's called person.
[19:46] <elfy> :p
[19:47] <Unit193> marketing
[19:49] <Unit193> http://0bin.net/paste/ijCn5RT8ow-wShup#Oy4iS1Rh+oaSyOnVLyTm0V1H4DJCcWKjkU1Xvsb0AVw=  seen all as referrers, well except for the last 3, but Google and FB both have some weird method of referring anyway.
[19:49] <drc> Which method of replying is prefered, ML or Pad?  Which ever one is, should be listed first (hint: Pad requires a account)
[19:50] <Unit193> Pad is preferred, at least by me. :P
[19:52] <Unit193> pleia2: We good, all set?
[19:53] <pleia2> Unit193: yeah, thanks
[19:53] <Unit193> \o/
[19:54] <Unit193> GridCube: And yep, linked to your image.
[19:54] <pleia2> ml requires sign up too, which I guess is why everyone has been replying in the respective social media outlets instead ;)
[19:54] <Unit193> Oi, I'm stupid. >_<
[19:54] <GridCube> Unit193, noted
[19:54] <GridCube> that was the mean of it
[19:55] <Unit193> Hah, good timing. :D
[20:02] <GridCube> Unit193, i dont know who made this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4g31weG-SM
[20:04] <Unit193> http://myswiat.wordpress.com/2013/08/03/xmir-and-xubuntu-testy/
[20:05] <Unit193> But, hadn't seen the video.
[20:06] <skellat> Is that Polish?
[20:06] <elfy> yep
[20:06] <skellat> Or Bulgarian?
[20:06] <Unit193> Right, well she reminded me to check and see how well I can get a video of a monitor. :P
[20:06] <pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1198741
[20:07] <pleia2> if anyone wants to me too it
[20:07] <pleia2> doh
[20:07] <pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1198741
[20:07] <pleia2> that's the one I meant
[20:07] <pleia2> for some reason it's a dup of the first one I posted
[20:09] <elfy> I'd like to be able to get them a bug report for my fail - but I can't think of anyway to get that for them
[20:09] <elfy> there's probably a terminal somewhere ... http://imagebin.org/266445
[20:10] <pleia2> elfy: heh, we have a few people with that issue
[20:11] <elfy> oh - is there a bug for it?
[20:11] <elfy> pleia2: worked on this machine at least
[20:12] <pleia2> elfy: doesn't look like we've filed it yet, collecting screenshots of errors
[20:13] <elfy> ok - I'd report it but I can just imagine the pointlessness of just posting a screenshot :)
[20:13] <pleia2> elfy: I figure we'll post one bug report linking to a bunch of screenshots w/ system specs, can you add to etherpad?
[20:13] <elfy> I have :)
[20:13] <pleia2> \o/
[20:14] <Unit193> -mir is dead on weekends, nobody works at Canonical.
[20:14] <elfy> the cog will too I expect pleia2 
[20:14] <elfy> that being steve horsley 
[20:14] <elfy> Unit193: IS do if they have to :D
[20:14] <Unit193> Hah. :D
[20:15] <elfy> woohoo - we have a test result on the package tracker :D
[20:16]  * pleia2 goes to do some other things while testing video uploads
[20:22] <Unit193> One last thing I was thinking about, changing "Testing XMir on Xubuntu" to "Testing XMir 0.0.8 on Xubuntu", or is it something only I would think to add? :P
[20:22] <elfy> p[ossibly only you :)
[20:25] <Unit193> Cool, I'll go hide in a corner now.
[20:26] <elfy> :)
[20:27] <elfy> Unit193: I'll leave this machine on tonight - see if the torrents move 
[20:29] <pleia2> jono wants to know if it would be helpful to have a meeting this week with some Mir engineers to iron out some things
[20:29] <pleia2> I won't be around after Wednesday, and I think most can be communicated via email
[20:32] <pleia2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfroweheIEU
[20:33] <elfy> sppoky fingers ... :p
[20:36] <elfy> pleia2: same as I had - didn't notice password when I logged out though
[20:36] <GridCube> pleia2, i think it would be great to have a meeting
[20:37] <pleia2> what package do we ubuntu-bug against?
[20:37]  * elfy agrees, not sure if I'll make it on Wed though - depending on time
[20:37] <elfy> pleia2: not at all sure 
[20:37] <pleia2> I am not sure we actually can
[20:37] <elfy> meet or bug?
[20:38] <pleia2> bug
[20:38] <pleia2> but I want it to do all the upload logs magic
[20:38]  * elfy gets tinfoil out for his hat 
[20:39] <Unit193> I think it's technically unity-system-compositor, but since "mir" is in the repos, I'd file on that. :P
[20:39] <pleia2> mir package isn't installed
[20:40] <Unit193> That's the source package name, binary is... libmirclient-sopmething and libmirserver-something, as well as a couple other libs.
[20:40] <pleia2> no, not in the repos for this either
[20:40] <pleia2> so should file against one of those libs?
[20:40] <pleia2> there's also the xserver-xmir package
[20:40] <pleia2> or somesuch
[20:41] <elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir
[20:41] <Unit193> Yeah, think same source package... I *think* system-compositor is the one, right?
[20:41] <pleia2> elfy: I don't want to file it manually, want it to do all the upload magic of all my system info
[20:42] <pleia2> Unit193: ok, I'll just do it under system compositor, then can fix it ;)
[20:42] <elfy> I'll boot it up if you want and see what ubuntu-bug finds if you want
[20:42] <Unit193> Apport may not let you, but worth a shot.
[20:42] <elfy> tired ... to many wants in that last sentence ... 
[20:44] <pleia2> seems this won't work since none of these packages are officially in the repo
[20:44] <pleia2> guess I'll just file manually
[20:44] <skellat> pleia2: Jono wants to do a meeting?
[20:44] <pleia2> skellat: yes
[20:46] <skellat> E-mail would be better at this point.  We've got 18 days until our go/no-go decision point on XMir as of right now.  The best thing we could get from the Mir team would be a diff from Unit193's ISO of what a proper configuration for boot up would look like in their view.
[20:46] <elfy> typing's fun
[20:46] <elfy> and it's slow rechoing
[20:47] <Unit193> Do remember, the terminal with the log is actually a change I did, easily removed. (sudo rm /etc/xdg/autostart/mir-log.desktop or in the settings manager.)
[20:48] <pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1208242
[20:48] <ganglere> "Startup Disk Creator" is usb-creator-gtk, correct?
[20:50] <elfy> if anyone wants me to  try  ubuntu-buig pleasee type it here - this is a nightamare
[20:50] <elfy> and I'll copypasta
[20:51] <elfy> not mire though
[20:51] <GridCube> hahaha yes, typing in xmir is a pain
[20:52] <Unit193> ganglere: Yes.
[20:53] <Unit193> ganglere: Not recommended at this point, IIRC.
[20:53] <skellat> Unit193: I'm not really worried about that terminal job.  I'm worried about replication.  Why can't we get what was shown in those YouTube videos in months prior to faithfully replicate across different hardware profiles?  What hideous hacks will it take?
[20:54] <elfy> ok 
[20:54] <elfy> no takers
[20:55] <ganglere> unit193, it's included as part of the daily milestone, but not prepackaged. i've filed a bug.
[20:55] <pleia2> putting together an email here: http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir-email
[20:57] <elfy> don't set grub to default to last booted ... 
[20:57] <elfy> what was that bug you posted pleia2 ? 
[20:58] <pleia2> elfy: I posted a couple :)
[20:58] <pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1208242
[20:58] <pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1198741
[20:59] <elfy> the first one - thanks :) me too'd it 
[21:01]  * pleia2 adds some more gfx card info from others who reported the same
[21:01] <elfy> but as I said yesterday - if I only have a 50% success rate at even booting the iso - I'm never going to +1 using it 
[21:02] <pleia2> elfy: I'm still willing to be surprised in the coming weeks, I wouldn't say "never" so soon ;)
[21:02] <elfy> pleia2: you want me to add my card? or do you want to add it with the rest? 
[21:02] <pleia2> elfy: go for it
[21:02] <elfy> pleia2: if it works it works
[21:03] <Unit193> I have a 117MB file I don't want to upload to a video hosting service, how would you like to view it? :P
[21:04] <Unit193> ...Very crappy video.
[21:05] <elfy> pleia2: posted
[21:05] <elfy> and I'm always willing to be surprised too 
[21:06] <skellat> If it can be done successfully, great.
[21:06] <skellat> If not, then it is still okay.
[21:06] <skellat> That's why we have the go/no-go meeting.
[21:07] <elfy> pleia2: I'll do a bug with the screenshot I've got of the complete fail - then if you have other's from social stuff you could add them
[21:07] <pleia2> I need a simple video editor, suggestions? :)
[21:07] <pleia2> elfy: perfect, thank you
[21:07] <drc> pleia2:   pitivi?
[21:07] <pleia2> really just need to chop out a segment
[21:07] <pleia2> drc: thanks
[21:09] <Unit193> Heh, that's what I was thinking, but never used it.  Isn't OpenShot another one?
[21:09] <pleia2> doesn't seem to want to edit mp4 videos
[21:10] <pleia2> nm, I just don't know how to use it ;)
[21:10]  * pleia2 figures out
[21:10] <elfy> pleia2: you know that bug - that showed your password - should have marked it a security vulnerabilty :p
[21:11] <GridCube> !info ffmuliconverter
[21:11] <pleia2> elfy: it was, it was unsecurityified
[21:11] <GridCube> !info ffmulticonverter
[21:11] <GridCube> what
[21:12] <GridCube> https://sites.google.com/site/ffmulticonverter/
[21:13] <elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1208250
[21:13] <elfy> pleia2: there you are 
[21:13] <pleia2> ty
[21:13] <pleia2> skellat: want to add your video to that bug? ^^
[21:15] <pleia2> lderan: your mir.jpg seems to have disappeared, can you upload it somewhere more permanent?
[21:16] <elfy> I noted those 2 bugs on the discourse thread for this xubuntu mir testing
[21:22] <elfy> pleia2: and the cog has posted to the new bug - good bunch forum staff :p
[21:25] <pleia2> the cog?
[21:25] <drc> small cog...big machine
[21:26] <Unit193> I had made a wiki of the etherpad for easy reading.. :P
[21:26] <pleia2> Unit193: where?
[21:26] <pleia2> I'm just copying+organizing over in the -email etherpad
[21:26] <elfy> pleia2: steve horsley - is the cog in my world :)
[21:27] <pleia2> elfy: ah, ok :)
[21:27] <Unit193> Just transferred part of the wiki, so if it's slightly broken... http://vanir.unit193.tk/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki:mir and the video is uploaded. \o/
[21:27] <elfy> toz is another forum staff guy that uses xubuntu 
[21:27] <Unit193> http://vanir.unit193.tk/mir/DSCF3866.AVI
[21:27] <lderan> pleia2, weird it should be there 
[21:28] <skellat> pleia2: Feel free to add the video where necessary
[21:28] <elfy> I added Xubuntu to my bug pleia2 - maybe do the same? 
[21:28] <elfy> nvm 
[21:29] <elfy> I can do so 
[21:29] <Unit193> Do I win on worst one yet? :P
[21:29] <lderan> pleia2, ah typo'ed the url
[21:29] <elfy> anyway - done for the day - piskie will watch over you all 
[21:29] <elfy> night
[21:31] <skellat> Unit193: I'm still downloading your video
[21:35] <Unit193> lderan: Noooo!  IE10! :P
[21:35] <lderan> nooooo
[21:37] <skellat> Unit193: You win.  That looks like something a bad SNES cartridge might have produced back in the day.
[21:37] <Unit193> \o/
[21:37] <Unit193> Not really old hardware...
[21:38] <skellat> I think that AVI needs to be a bug attachment
[21:40] <Noskcaj> interesting bug that just turned up. bug 1208243
[21:41] <Unit193> I never got to see the desktop. :(
[21:43] <Unit193> "Antique hardware is not in use"  Mine is. :P
[21:44] <skellat> Noskcaj: That would be due to it not being seeded and included on the disc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5949026/
[21:46] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/TgycjehjLCtTEfwJZklH
[21:47] <skellat> We didn't ship it in 13.04 either
[21:56] <pleia2> lderan: ah, thanks!
[21:57] <lderan> its pretty premanent until i have a power cut :P
[21:58] <pleia2> lderan: hm, actually, it didn't load the installer?
[21:58] <pleia2> the installer doesn't use xmir, xmir is only started when you go to "try" afaik
[21:59] <pleia2> skellat: can you add your machine specs to the video? (something so that the bug report references back to your info)
[22:01] <skellat> pleia2: Another comment made but done
[22:06] <lderan> pleia2, i tried it with 13.04 and it loaded fine so thought it was something to do with the xmir
[22:13] <pleia2> ok, I'm about ready to send off the email at http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir-email
[22:25] <skellat> pleia2: I'm okay with it.
[22:29] <pleia2> sent!
[22:31] <lderan> \o/
[22:36] <knome> pleia2, thanks for the answer
[22:36] <pleia2> what answer?
[22:36] <knome> pleia2, email reply to jono
[22:37] <pleia2> oh, I sent one directly to him too
[22:37] <knome> oh, ok
[22:37] <knome> right, just got that. :)
[22:37] <pleia2> :)
[22:38] <knome> also, i'm going to be off from wed this week until pretty much next week
[22:38] <pleia2> I leave wednesday night
[22:38] <knome> the project? :)
[22:38] <pleia2> haha
[22:38] <pleia2> california :)
[22:39] <knome> oki
[22:39] <pleia2> going to a conference over the weekend
[22:39] <knome> aha, which one?
[22:39] <pleia2> so mostly gone thurs-sun
[22:39] <pleia2> the freenode one, fosscon.org
[22:39] <knome> aah
[22:39] <knome> anything interesting there (excluding you)?
[22:40] <pleia2> coolbhavi is flying in for a couple talks
[22:40] <knome> don't know the nick
[22:40] <pleia2> mostly I want to go becaus it's in philly and my friends are there :)
[22:41] <knome> (or person, i'm pretty sure)
[22:41] <knome> i have friends wedding on sun!
[22:42] <skellat> pleia2: Well, at least you'll be passing Ashtabula...and Erie, Clarion, Harrisburg, Indiana, Kutztown, Lancaster, and a whole lotta other places
[22:42] <pleia2> :)
[22:43] <pleia2> ok, need to take a break from xubu-things
[22:44] <lderan> hope you have fun :D
[22:44] <knome> isn't lancaster in the brits? :P
[22:44] <lderan> think so
[22:44] <skellat> knome: Ohio has one and so does Pennsylvania
[22:44] <knome> pleia2, enjoy your well-earned break!
[22:45] <skellat> The Pennsylvania one is near Philadelphia
[22:45] <skellat> (Relatively speaking)
[22:46] <knome> relatively speaking, we almost sit next to each other (comparing to pluto)
[22:47] <lderan> poor pluto :(
[22:47] <Unit193> Still is in my book, and think they reinstated it.
[22:49] <drc> nope...still a dwarf-planet/ plutoid
[22:52] <skellat> It is like when Ashtabula gets lumped in as part of "Greater Cleveland".  We're only 60 miles away from the outer suburbs of Cleveland but, hey, what do I know...
[22:54] <knome> by those standards, i live in the helsinki city centre!
[22:54] <knome> by most standards, i do live quite near anyway!
[22:55] <skellat> US Census Bureau officially **does not** include Ashtabula as part of the Cleveland metro area.  We're considered a "micropolitan" area for statistical purposes.
[22:56] <drc> metropolitan statistical area?
[22:56] <skellat> drc: Yep
[22:56] <drc> marketeers are so smart :(
[22:57] <knome> ok, i'm off
[22:57] <knome> see you later
[22:57] <lderan> me too
[22:57] <lderan> good night all
[22:57] <knome> nighty
[22:59] <drc> bed bugs and all that....