[01:00] <snap-l>  Hello there
[01:00] <snap-l> Who all is here?
[01:00] <rick_h> party
[01:00] <rick_h> oh right, meeting eh?
[01:00] <snap-l> Yeppers
[01:01] <waldo323> hi
[01:01] <waldo323> good evening
[01:01] <snap-l> Good Evening
[01:02] <snap-l> Anyone else on the line?
[01:04] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/518/detail/
[01:04] <snap-l> Agenda is here
[01:04] <snap-l> Going to wait a few minutes, and then get started
[01:09] <snap-l> OK, let's get started.
[01:10] <snap-l> First up, welcome to the August 2013 meeting for the Ubuntu MI Loco
[01:10] <snap-l> Glad you're all here. ;)
[01:10] <snap-l> First order of business is Ohio Linuxfest
[01:10] <snap-l> Who all is going?
[01:11] <waldo323> part of me will be there in spirit
[01:11] <rick_h> nope
[01:12] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm not going to be able to make it either
[01:15] <snap-l> The only person I know who is going is jcastro
[01:15] <snap-l> So perhaps our involvement will be less "official". :)
[01:15] <snap-l> Anywho, it's on the radar and coming up in case someone can help out with things
[01:16] <snap-l> but from the sound of it it's not going to be well attended by us.
[01:16] <snap-l> Ah well
[01:17] <snap-l> If someone wants to do something and organize it, there's still some time to get something together
[01:17] <snap-l> so don't let that disuade you. :)
[01:17] <rick_h> hah
[01:17] <snap-l> Anywho, moving on
[01:17] <snap-l> Unfortunately it turns out just about everything overlaps this year
[01:18] <snap-l> and much as maker Faire and PyOhio overlapped, so too does Ohio Linuxfest and Ubuntu Global Jam S-Cycle
[01:18] <snap-l> I'm thinking because it overlaps OLF, we should do something online again
[01:18] <snap-l> Ie: Participate when you can over the weekend
[01:19] <snap-l> That way folks who go to OLF can still participate
[01:19] <snap-l> and those who are busy with other things that weekend can also participate during the weekend.
[01:19] <waldo323> what are the suggested ways to participate?
[01:19] <snap-l> Glad you asked. :)
[01:20] <snap-l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[01:21] <waldo323> helpful you are
[01:21] <snap-l> Mostly triage / fix bugs, Testing, Docuumentation, Translations, packaging, and Being Friendly.
[01:21] <snap-l> Oh, wait, I mean improving Ubuntu Friendly
[01:21] <snap-l> which is different than being normally friendly. :)
[01:22] <snap-l> https://friendly.ubuntu.com/
[01:22] <snap-l> I think it's determining what laptops and hardware are more friendly to Ubuntu than others
[01:23] <waldo323> aah i was hoping that going around holding doors for people and giving them an ubuntu disc would work for that
[01:24] <snap-l> That's under the Ubuntu Chivalry project
[01:24] <waldo323> sign me up and send me discs :)
[01:24] <snap-l> unfortunately it was replaced after the Ubuntu Middle Ages
[01:24] <waldo323> or usb sticks
[01:25] <snap-l> The Ubuntu Renaissance saw to that.
[01:25] <waldo323> aww
[01:25] <snap-l> Now we just paint Circles of Friends on sistine chapels. :)
[01:26] <snap-l> Anywho, Global Jam, September. We'll have one more meeting to plan and such, but the gist is we'll meet online during the weekend
[01:26] <snap-l> Any questions? Concerns? Alternate plans?
[01:32] <waldo323> not at this time, at least not for the bug jam
[01:33] <snap-l> OK, last but not least: Ubuntu Release Party
[01:33] <snap-l> This should be celebrating the release of 13.10
[01:33] <snap-l> woo woo
[01:33] <snap-l> which I'm sure you've all been following closely.
[01:34] <brousch> hah
[01:37] <snap-l> Anywho, think about what you'd like to see at the release party
[01:38] <snap-l> because frankly I'd like to see someone else plan it if possible. :)
[01:40] <snap-l> But hey, there's another month or so to plan that
[01:40] <snap-l> so just keep that in my backs of your minds.
[01:40] <snap-l> Anything else on the release party?
[01:41] <waldo323> should it be the weekend after, day of, weekend before, or should that be left up to who ever plans it?
[01:42] <waldo323> i think washtinaw user group meets that night
[01:43] <waldo323> *Washtenaw
[01:44] <snap-l> If someone wants to run with the ball I'm happy to let them run
[01:45] <snap-l> As long as the answer to "who is planning the release party" is "not me", I'm quite content.
[01:46] <waldo323> how planned does it need to be?
[01:48] <snap-l> Not particularly. Just find a spot for people to hang out in a place that is flexible for around 20 folks
[01:48] <snap-l> I was surprised at how many folks we had for the one we had at the brewery
[01:48] <snap-l> I think they were surprised as well
[01:53] <waldo323> my initial thoughts are RO Brewery or Black Lotus Brewery but i'll have to see about my availability before I step up
[01:53] <snap-l> That would be awesome. :)
[01:54] <waldo323> is there a way to have a poll on our loco site?
[01:54] <waldo323> or somewhere else so we can get an idea what date would be best for those who would attend?
[01:54] <snap-l> I don't think so, but Google Docs has a poll
[01:59] <snap-l> Anywho, I think that wraps this meeting
[01:59] <snap-l> Thank you everyone for coming. :)
[02:05] <waldo323> thank you for hosting
[03:19] <jrwren> meeting scheduled during trueblood airings will not be attended :p
[03:59] <Blazeix> i bet they'd reschedule if you raised it with HBO
[12:25] <snap-l> jrwren: That's what laptops are for. :)
[12:25] <snap-l> Show can't be all that interesting
[12:30] <snap-l> Also, Good morning
[12:30] <rick_h> morn
[12:32] <rick_h> snap-l: 12.04? or 13.04?
[12:32] <snap-l> 12.04
[12:33] <snap-l> I have no interest in trying anything later at the moment
[12:39] <snap-l> I think there must be some people on vacation because the network is amazingly fast at work.
[13:37] <brousch1> Mailpile looks interesting http://www.mailpile.is/
[13:37] <brousch1> I have wondered for a couple of years why there's no good Python webmail client
[13:40] <jrwren> can anyone link me to some "internal juju" docs. Some thing which describes what juju is actually doing when I juju init and juju deploy. e.g. juju init creates machine zero. why? for what is it used. How is the charm deployed? push? userdata? userdata to do pull? when is charm install run?
[13:43] <rick_h> jrwren: hmm, I'm not sure what docs go into that at that level. I can give you some answers but some I don't know
[13:44] <rick_h> jrwren: the docs are being updated and in looking at them it's not at that level from what I can see.
[13:44] <rick_h> http://blog.labix.org/2013/06/25/the-heart-of-juju is interesting, but again, not 'behind the scenes' as much
[13:45] <brousch1> Read the code!
[13:57] <jrwren> thanks rick_h
[13:57] <jrwren> good point brousch1
[14:02] <rick_h> jrwren: so node 0 is to run the juju api server which stores all the metadata and actually pushes deploys and such
[14:03] <rick_h> jrwren: there's a mongodb server with an api service running. juju talks to it and commands go from there to things on the inside of the environment
[14:06] <brousch1> I can see why people like their IDEs on windows. It's frickin annoying to use anything less
[14:07] <snap-l> Yeah, you don't realize how spoiled you are under Linux / UNIX
[14:07] <snap-l> It's like expecting all water to taste like it has iron in it
[14:08] <rick_h> meh, right tool for the job. If it sucks as doing the job change the tool
[14:08] <snap-l> rather, Windows folks are used to everything tasing like it has iron in it
[14:08] <rick_h> not spoiled, just choosing good tools
[14:08] <rick_h> don't try to tow a camper with a Mini
[14:08] <snap-l> rick_h: Yes, but if you're only used to minis you will never think to tow a camper
[14:09] <brousch1> You just tow very small campers
[14:10]  * rick_h is making campgruond reservations so in the camper mindset
[14:10] <snap-l> along the tiny british coastline
[14:11] <rick_h> and <3 google maps for checking out campground spots via sat. to help pick good spots :)
[14:13] <rick_h> this is awesome https://twitter.com/Earth_Pics/status/364354667829927936/photo/1
[14:19] <snap-l> Yeah, I would love to know
[14:27] <brousch1> The tip of the foolishness I need to deal with on Windows https://github.com/van-dam-iron-works/WinBootstrapPyEnv
[14:37] <jrwren> rick_h: when you got 29mph were you pulling that camper?
[14:38] <rick_h> jrwren: huh?
[14:38] <snap-l> 29mpg
[14:38] <rick_h> jrwren: ah no. empty
[14:38] <rick_h> jrwren: with the camper was 15mpg
[14:39] <jrwren> lol, mph. wow, I need more coffee for sure.
[14:39] <snap-l> brousch1: Any particular reason you're installing distribute separately?
[14:39] <rick_h> snap-l: pip requires distribute if you want to use it for packages in there.
[14:39] <rick_h> snap-l: so you have to install it along for the ride before pip comes in so pip can work right
[14:40] <snap-l> Isn't it part of setuptools .8?
[14:40] <rick_h> I know they're merged, but guessing it's not the version he's using?
[14:40] <jrwren> i don't see the big deal. I do almost that identical boostrap process on linux rather often. I don't use ubuntu everywehre :)
[14:40] <snap-l> kk
[14:40] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, when I did python3 setup I had to do those steps manually
[14:41] <brousch1> I haven't moved to the new setuptools yet
[14:41] <snap-l> brousch1: Ah, no worries then
[14:41] <snap-l> newer versions of distribute will install setuptools anyway (.7 and onward)
[14:41] <brousch1> So maybe I get it for free from the distribute bootstrap
[14:42] <snap-l> likely. I pinned ours to 0.6.49 (the last stand-alone distribute) for a project.
[14:43] <rick_h> if anyone has some spare time looking for some brave bookie testers. I've got a serious branch that actually uses celery now and is sweet. Auto loads content of pages on import, auto starts imports on submit, etc.
[14:43] <rick_h> add a new bookmark via bookmarklet or manual and the page content is almost there before you can get back to hit the eyeball icon to look at it :)
[14:43] <snap-l> I'm only looking for casual, non-commital, and light-hearted bookie branches. ;)
[14:43] <rick_h> boooo, commitment issues
[14:44] <brousch1> I have 0.6.49
[14:44] <snap-l> Yeah, so you're using the stand-alone distribute
[14:45] <brousch1> I should look into the new one. No point in going old right now
[15:23] <rick_h> a little brousch1 <3 at the end http://therealkatie.net/blog/2013/aug/5/young-coders-pyohio/
[15:58] <rick_h> :( https://twitter.com/gregferrell/status/364409864321110016
[16:02] <snap-l> Nice.
[17:08] <brousch1> rick_h: Woohoo on the kivy!
[17:18] <jrwren> interesting: http://www.stylight.com/Numbers/pipes-and-filters-architectures-with-python-generators/  from a couple weeks ago pycoder weekly mail
[17:22] <jrwren> i've never seen reduce used that way
[17:22] <jrwren> in any language, or if I have, i've forgotten.
[17:39] <greg-g> random thought: since the email spec says + addressing is acceptable (you know, me+bugs@domain.com is delivered to me@domain.com) shouldn't websites not allow multiple accounts that are just + addresses of the same root?
[17:39]  * greg-g overhears people in coffee shop testing their webapp with test accounts that are u+alice@, u+bob@, etc
[17:39] <snap-l> Not all services handle it that way
[17:39] <rick_h> greg-g: yea, if anyone bothered to check
[17:40]  * rick_h does a `bookie user list G +`
[17:40] <snap-l> I think it's a convention, but you could theoretically have different accounts referenced by the +
[17:40] <greg-g> snap-l: well, there supposed to
[17:40]  * greg-g checks spec
[17:41] <snap-l> But yeah, email is fun that way
[17:41] <rick_h> greg-g: email = email.replace(/\+[^@]/, '')
[17:41] <snap-l> rick_h: Don't you DARE do that. :)
[17:42] <rick_h> :)
[17:42] <greg-g> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5233
[17:43] <greg-g> maybe a better one: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3598
[17:43] <snap-l> Implementations SHOULD
[17:43] <snap-l>    allow the separator character to be configurable so that they may be
[17:43] <snap-l>    used with a variety of mail systems.
[17:44] <rick_h> yea, a lot of web apps don't allow a + in the email
[17:44] <rick_h> drives gmail users bonkers
[17:44] <snap-l> I remember getting yelled at by SF users for that.
[17:44] <rick_h> I've got 4 of them in bmark.us.
[17:44] <jrwren> http://adambard.com/blog/Reducers-explained-through-Python/  cool
[17:44] <snap-l> Well, not yelled ay per se... more "comic book guy"ed
[17:45] <greg-g> hah
[17:45] <jrwren> SHOULD v MUST
[17:45] <rick_h> ah specs, where no one wants to be locked down to anything
[17:46] <snap-l> And then we get yelled at for being pedantic. :)
[17:46] <snap-l> or not being pedantic enough
[17:57] <jrwren> did you know dovecot has a lucene plugin base on CLucene which indexes all mailboxes ?
[17:58] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, but then you're doing searches against the back end
[17:58] <jrwren> which might be good
[17:58] <jrwren> i run dovecot on my laptop
[17:59] <rick_h> I'm pretty happy with notmuch (xapaian and packaged) locally
[17:59] <rick_h> jrwren: ah, I run dovecot on my server, but nothing locally
[18:00] <greg-g> notmuch is good enough for me, but I know people are swearing by dovecot locally (instead of offlineimap)
[18:00]  * rick_h didn't realize dovecot would be able to be a 'sync' layer to replace offileimap
[18:01] <greg-g> yep
[18:01] <jrwren> i just found it easier to setup.
[18:01] <jrwren> and it works great.
[18:01] <jrwren> I don't know if it syncs or not.
[18:02] <jrwren> i just fetchmail from an unstable Exchange server.
[18:02] <jrwren> so my stability improvement is HUGE
[18:02] <rick_h> well call me curious I guess if it can replace offlineimap. offlineimap hangs on my server once in a while and I've got to kill it
[18:20] <snap-l> Yeah, I use fetchmail and dovecot with a local maildir
[18:42] <brousch1> OK, now my install script is much less embarrassing. Added support to automatically download and install Python, PyWin32, and the environment. Also Python3.3 https://github.com/van-dam-iron-works/WinBootstrapPyEnv
[20:28] <brousch1> Do you think that python on windows bootstrap is appropriate for pypi?
[20:31] <snap-l> Not sure, but wouldn't hurt to try
[20:39] <rick_h> meh, there's a ton of sample packages from books up there
[20:39] <rick_h> brousch1: if you want to pip install it then put it up there I say
[20:40] <brousch1> It doesn't make sense as a pip install. It installs pip!
[20:41] <rick_h> hah!
[20:41] <rick_h> then no, I'd not put it up there
[20:41] <rick_h> I'd put it on github
[20:41] <rick_h> git clone helper && helper.run
[20:48] <snap-l> Jesus, you'd think the Washington Post was the center of the universe on Twitter.
[20:49] <rick_h> yea, kind of a big deal though. one of the big papers in the country.
[20:49] <rick_h> though /me only has 2 references to it
[20:49] <snap-l> Wonder if the folks from Geeknet will stick around there
[20:50] <snap-l> I follow Jeff Jarvis
[20:50] <brousch1> Having git installed on Windows does not seem like a good assumption, so my instructions have you download the project as a zip, unzip it, then run the appropriate .bat
[20:50] <snap-l> and several other folks that feel this is a big deal.
[20:50] <rick_h> snap-l: heh, well there's your first mistake :P
[20:50] <snap-l> If you're a developer in 2013 and don't have git installed... well, I can't help you.
[20:51] <brousch1> Come on now. It's useful for n00bs
[20:51] <rick_h> develeper != noob
[20:51] <rick_h> at least shouldn't :/
[20:52] <snap-l> Cue the "disruption" articles
[20:52] <rick_h> ugh
[21:15] <rick_h> http://162.209.74.229:6543/ cool, running on rackspace server for free :)
[21:16] <rick_h> time to make it go boom!
[21:17] <rick_h> heh, and broken things
[22:40] <greg-g> ok, who uses gnome shell here? and have you noticed the "you can't expand a column in nautilus bigger than the current window can take, ie: you can't expand the filename col very far until it stops, because the right most column has hit the edge of the window" bug?
[22:41] <greg-g> I bet its a feature, but dammit
[22:47] <snap-l> Just attached a HDMI cable to the monitor.
[22:47] <snap-l> And figured out how to arrange things so it's at full resolution
[22:47] <snap-l> Hurray for pointless but satisfying upgrades. :)
[22:58] <snap-l> JoDee is pissed.
[22:59] <snap-l> She ordered something from JoAnn Fabrics that arrived in Madison Heights on Saturday
[22:59] <snap-l> They handed it off to the post office today
[22:59] <snap-l> she hasn't seen it yet
[22:59] <snap-l> Meanwhile I had a package that was supposed to arrive on Tuesday show up today.
[22:59] <snap-l> (from Amazon)
[23:00] <snap-l> Needless to say she'll be much more reluctant to buy anything from JoAnns online