[00:01] <crankharder> I dont think .override files would work since there may not be an original service to override
[15:05] <gQuigs> is it planned to recommend removing the symlinks from /etc/init.d/  at some point?
[15:06] <gQuigs> In 12.04,  the networking upstart service is almost nothing. while the init.d job is real,   then in raring it's a symlink to the upstart job.  then in saucy it appears to be back as a real init.d job...
[15:09] <gQuigs> basically, I've seen a number of users confused by how to do simple stuff like restarting networking..
[15:40] <ajp> getting weird message: initctl: Rejected send message, 1 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.140" (uid=1000 pid=11332 comm="initctl start upstartPDF ") interface="com.ubuntu.Upstart0_6.Job" member="Start" error name="(unset)" requested_reply="0" destination="com.ubuntu.Upstart" (uid=0 pid=1 comm="/sbin/init")
[15:41] <ajp> when I try to run $: initctl start upstartPDF
[15:42] <ajp> can anyone tell me why? script here: http://pastebin.com/uiXkd901
[15:43] <jodh> ajp: did you try Google? http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#strange-error-when-running-start-stop-restart-or-initctl-emit
[15:43] <jodh> ajp: you need to be root.
[15:43] <ajp> oh duh, thanks i'm going to retry
[15:43] <jodh> ajp: also, do you really need to run that job as root? if so, why does it live in a home directory? If it really must, you'll probably have to set 'env HOME=...' in the job. Better still, run it as a session job if you can.
[15:45] <ajp> the upstart script calls a bash script in the home folder that monitors a samba shared folder and converts large PDFs to small PDFS
[15:46] <ajp>  it's on a headless server that hosts our file share and scans from the printers
[15:46] <ajp> not sure what you mean by session job
[15:47] <ajp> it was working at one point but now it doesn't work by default, not sure what's going on
[15:47] <ajp> jodh
[15:49] <jodh> ajp: if you are running Ubuntu, you'll need to be using Raring or newer to make use of Session Jobs: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#session-jobs
[15:50] <jodh> ajp: I'm just saying that running a program as root from a home directory is unusual. You may need to set variables (like $HOME) to make it work if that script calls other scripts for user matthew.
[15:52] <ajp> there really is only one user, matthew. 
[15:52] <ajp> how am I running it as root? I don't see the line you are talking about "exec"?
[15:53] <jodh> ajp: where does the .conf file live?
[15:54] <ajp> "/etc/init"
[15:54] <xnox> gQuigs: in debian jessie and ubuntu saucy, indeed symlinks to upstart-jobs are no longer required. Instead update-rc.d and friends were updated to cope with upstart jobs.
[15:54] <jodh> ajp: right, so you are running the job as root.
[15:54] <ajp> i see. 
[15:55] <jodh> ajp: so to repeat, please be sure you need to run that job as the root user!
[15:55] <gQuigs> xnox: oh ok, so should I report bugs against packages that still have them?  (obviously low priority bugs..)
[15:55] <jodh> ajp: if you don't and you can't use a Session Job, read http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#run-a-job-as-a-different-user
[15:57] <xnox> gQuigs: no bugs need to be reported.
[15:57] <xnox> gQuigs: package that migrate away from installing symlinks, remove them as of when they do them.
[15:59] <gQuigs> xnox: didn't quite parse that last line...  if a package doesn't require the symlinks isn't that a bug?
[16:00] <gQuigs> xnox: or is there some other compat. that needs to be added first?
[16:00] <xnox> gQuigs: that's not what i said.
[16:01] <xnox> gQuigs: it's ok for symlinks to be there, but they do need trasition before symlinks can be removed. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpstartCompatibleInitScripts and the matching thread started by slangasek on ubuntu-devel for further details.
[16:18] <gQuigs> xnox: oh.. so the symlinks are being replaced by sysV jobs.. that error out if run on a system with upstart as init... 
[16:18] <gQuigs> xnox: thanks that link / mailing list was very helpful
[16:21] <xnox> gQuigs: kind of reverse, symlinks used to override sysv jobs, and now we are stopping to do so.
[16:24] <gQuigs> xnox: right, but those new sysv jobs better be set to Error out.. 
[16:27] <gQuigs> or we will really really confuse users.. 
[16:34] <xnox> gQuigs: only if the user runs the job manually, all the tools were modified to run upstart job first (if exist) and not call sysv init job at all.....
[16:41] <gQuigs> xnox: AFAIK the only way in 12.04 to stop/start networking is via /etc/init.d/networking
[16:41] <gQuigs> xnox: the upstart command appears to do nothing at all, so this is a big change for users who do that
[16:42] <xnox> gQuigs: you need to specify instance.
[16:50] <gQuigs> xnox: "networking" upstart job is always in stop/waiting on 12.04...  what do you mean about specifying an instance?
[16:53] <xnox> gQuigs: sudo initctl list | grep network
[16:54] <xnox> gQuigs: on saucy, networking is "start/running" and there are a bunch of other jobs "network-interface" with particular instances specified in (), e.g. (eth0)
[16:58] <gQuigs> xnox: yes on 12.04 I definitely get networking stop/waiting
[16:58] <gQuigs> but I do see the other interfaces..  which via upstart you would have to go one by one?
[16:58] <xnox> not sure. maybe things have changed in ubuntu since 12.04.
[16:59] <xnox> i mostly code upstart itself, and i didn't look into networking jobs much.
[17:03] <gQuigs> xnox: oh ok, thanks for your help!
[17:21] <ajp> jodh: it was working before for months and it just stopped working one day. any ideas why?
[17:45] <ajp> jodh: the bash script works fine by itself but when I try to integrate it into upstart, It doesn't do it's job
[18:03] <jodh> ajp: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#checking-how-a-service-might-react-when-run-as-a-job, http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#determining-why-your-service-fails-to-start, http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#see-the-environment-a-job-runs-in
[18:18] <ajp> jodh: well I just read all that and I still don't understand why it would work for months then all of the sudden it doesn't work at all?
[18:21] <ajp> anyone?