[00:40] <jrwren> python3.3 is a little faster than 2.7
[00:40] <rick_h> yea, it's what they say. Which is nice because 3.0 was slloooooooow
[00:41] <jrwren> brousch: use pypy!
[00:41] <jrwren> :)
[00:59] <rick_h> man, I should have done a wc on that email.
[00:59] <rick_h> people, don't ask why things don't work with JS turned off...it's not a legit question any more
[01:03] <jrwren> lol, i run  no script, I still don't ask those questions.
[01:03] <rick_h> do you run noscript on all JS? The only legit use I can see is 3rd party JS
[01:36] <jrwren> FF has 3rd party JS disabled by default now :)
[01:36] <jrwren> i run noscript on all JS
[01:36] <jrwren> then I enable site by site.
[01:36] <jrwren> it doesn't take long to get a trusted profile of sites going
[01:36] <greg-g> jrwren++
[01:37] <jrwren> and if I don't trust a site, i don't enable JS
[01:37] <jrwren> bonus: awesome ad blocker
[01:37] <jrwren> i never get some unwanted flash movie advertisement
[01:37] <jrwren> i never see the fortune.com ad, i just click enxt.
[01:37] <jrwren> and I save bandwidth on all those pageloads. I never see the ads
[01:38] <jrwren> noscript is a huge reason I still use firefox and am not chrome only
[11:09] <snap-l> rick_h: ping
[11:10] <snap-l> Bookmarked http://www.businessinsider.com/tech-ceos-favorite-productivity-hacks-2013-8?op=1
[11:10] <snap-l> BReadability shows this: https://bmark.us/bmark/readable/885acc8f0d9299
[11:10] <snap-l> There's some images missing
[11:10] <snap-l> not a big deal, but wondering what happened. :)
[11:11] <snap-l> I should probably make an issue for this and post into #bookie instead.
[11:11] <snap-l> <- mea culpa
[11:14] <snap-l> MOved this to #bookie
[11:42] <rick_h> snap-l: so it's probably the logic around picking the body content. Notice that the ones with missing images are missing any <p> or <div>
[11:42] <rick_h> they're bullet lists
[11:42] <rick_h> more list content than 'wordy' content
[11:43] <rick_h> snap-l: bug like that is more about breadability and can be added as a bug there to try to improve the scoring/parsing of this type of content.
[11:43] <rick_h> https://github.com/mitechie/breadability/issues?state=open
[11:46] <snap-l> kk
[11:48] <snap-l> Filed it there.
[11:49] <rick_h> thanks
[11:49] <rick_h> thanks for finding a page we parse better than readability on lol
[11:49] <rick_h> I could spend a month just working on breadability
[11:50] <snap-l> Maybe that could be a sprint at some point? :)
[11:51] <rick_h> yea, I'm thinking of putting one together the 31st maybe
[11:52] <rick_h> I'm thinking of the test coverage one, but if anyone's interested in how readable parsing works I'd be happy to go through that.
[11:52] <snap-l> That one is more interesting for me, honestly.
[11:52] <rick_h> I find it kind of interseting to see the scoring log info go by and try to figure out how it thinks
[11:52] <snap-l> (The readability piece)
[11:52] <snap-l> Testing is for chumps. :)
[11:53] <rick_h> sudo pip install breadability && breadability -bd "http://www.businessinsider.com/tech-ceos-favorite-productivity-hacks-2013-8?op=1"
[11:53] <snap-l> (actually, I'm getting the testing religion)
[11:55] <snap-l> That's neat. :)
[11:56] <snap-l> Now how to work this into my workflow
[11:56] <snap-l> I may never need a bookmarking site again. ;)
[11:56] <rick_h> yea, with that flag it logs out each decision, how many points a node got, why it was being removed, etc.
[11:56] <rick_h> hah, instead ofa tmp file write it out as an email in your rss2inbox? Then have your bookmarks there as well
[11:57] <rick_h> if you want to tinker with this stuff can run you through it at CHC tonight
[11:57] <rick_h> it's a fun problem sometimes
[12:15] <snap-l> Yeah, I might give it a look-see
[12:16] <snap-l> Also: Packt is now part of the O'Reilly fold
[12:16] <snap-l> 50% off Packt books
[12:16] <snap-l> which makes them about reasonable
[12:21]  * snap-l picked up the LMMS book that he was eyeballing
[12:30] <rick_h> orly? packt bought by oreilly?
[12:30] <brousch> So next year we need to turn Sunday morning at PyOhio into gaming time. Get some Munchkin going.
[12:44] <snap-l> rick_h: I think they're just distributing the books
[12:44] <snap-l> brousch: You're speaking my language. :)
[12:44] <snap-l> I brought Martian Dice just in case
[12:45] <snap-l> and much like the other games I brought to PyOhio, it went back home unplayed
[12:46] <brousch> I think we'd need a dedicated time slot for it
[12:46] <brousch> Sunday morning is obvious
[12:47] <snap-l> Yeah, but that means I'd have to wake up. :)
[12:47] <snap-l> And waking up is hard to do
[12:49] <brousch> I'll bang on your door. I was up at 6AM
[13:06] <snap-l> Well that was fun
[13:07] <snap-l> Networkon the desktop machine just went *poof*
[13:42] <snap-l> Having all sorts of hardware fun this morning
[13:42] <snap-l> hoping it's not related to my video card
[13:42] <rick_h> snap-l: hardware hates you man
[13:42] <snap-l> or rather hoping it is, and not that my motherboard is deciding it too hates me
[13:43] <snap-l> Yeah, this is becoming apparent.
[13:43] <brousch> I hate hardware. I long for the day when I can own a disposable screen and keyboard and do it all in the cloud
[13:43] <brousch> It is getting close
[13:44] <jrwren> that is silly
[13:44] <jrwren> that day is now.
[13:44] <jrwren> the problem is the screen is the most expensive part.
[13:44] <snap-l> brousch: And not that good
[13:44] <jrwren> I could do all my work on a BBB, but I need a KB and screen.
[13:45] <jrwren> and guess what??? the issue to which you responded will still happen. network will still drop on your cloud terminal.
[13:45] <brousch> Then the day has not arrived yet
[13:45] <snap-l> brousch: Then that day will never come
[13:45] <snap-l> Best find your rake and start digging in the sand because that's a more achievable goal
[13:52] <brousch> What is the goal of that?
[13:53] <snap-l> There is no goal, just to find inner peace through repetition
[13:54] <brousch> Chromebook is pretty close to my ideal
[13:54] <brousch> But not everything is a webapp yet
[14:10] <jrwren> you want to be subject to google eh?
[14:11] <snap-l> Praise be to Google
[14:19] <brousch> Indeed
[14:20] <brousch> jrwren: The concept of the Chromebook is pretty close to my ideal :P
[14:25] <ColonelPanic001> :(
[14:26] <brousch> :-*
[14:45] <jrwren> zomg: http://geert.vanderkelen.org/mysql-connector-python-1-1-0a/
[14:45] <jrwren> the fact that prepared statements just got in is INSANE
[14:45] <jrwren> I feel like this is 1996
[14:47] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm not following why this is a big deal that they weren't implemented
[14:49] <rick_h> because prepared statements or bust says all the things for long long time
[14:49] <rick_h> it's like just now escaping data in templates by default
[14:52] <snap-l> Does this person work directly for Oracle?
[14:52] <snap-l> I'm getting the impression this wasn't a high priority item
[14:55] <snap-l> Honestly haven't been following the MySQL end of things so any of this is news.
[16:03] <rick_h> Blazeix: background on your chrome twitter post?
[16:03] <Blazeix> rick_h: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6165708
[16:05] <Blazeix> and resulting www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/07/google-chrome-password-security-flaw
[16:05] <Blazeix> "One security manager at a publishing company said: "The fact you can view the passwords means they are stored in reversible form which means that the dark coders out there will be writing a Trojan to steal that password store as we speak."
[16:05] <Blazeix> scary that someone called a 'security manager' would say that
[16:07] <rick_h> huh?! wtf did they think chrome was doing to auto enter your passwords into a site?
[16:07] <Blazeix> exactly!
[16:07] <Blazeix> the amount of stupidity being displayed is staggering. the chrome security lead is commenting in that hn thread, and I feel sorry for him
[16:08] <rick_h> ugh
[16:08] <greg-g> see! identi.ca is still the best social network
[16:08] <greg-g> I posted to craigslist, twitter, and identi.ca asking for a ride to Tahoe on Friday
[16:08] <greg-g> guess where i got a positive response
[16:08] <greg-g> (a ride, that is)
[16:11] <snap-l> greg-g: That's because people like you there. :)
[16:12] <greg-g> awww, I take that as a compliment instead of an underhanded poke (that people don't like me other places) ;)
[16:15] <snap-l> Well, it's both. :)
[16:16] <snap-l> You're a celeb on identi.ca,
[16:16] <snap-l> and on twitter there's a broader audience that can't necessarily help out
[16:16] <snap-l> and Craigslist is where creepy hitchiker-devourers lurk
[16:18] <rick_h> Blazeix: this is nuts. "As people have pointed out, you can inspect the password via web inspector etc. This is another, serious security flaw and one that I think the HTML WG ought to look into."
[16:19] <rick_h> it's in the html!!!!! of course you can!!!
[16:19] <Blazeix> yeah, i was raging hard
[16:19] <Blazeix> can't imagine what the chrome guys are doing
[16:19] <rick_h> "our users are stupid, remember when we were small and only tech-heads used us and filed useful bugs?"
[16:23] <rick_h> lol " I just checked what rquick said (Firefox 22 on Mac is Firefox->Preferences->Security->Saved Passwords-> Show Passwords) and there's all my passwords. Yikes!"
[16:23] <rick_h> "What Google has done is just bad practice. There is no legitimate reason for allowing all of a users' online passwords to be stored and retrieved in plain text."
[16:23] <rick_h> it's the freaking browser FEATURE that you have to OPT IN to!!!
[16:24] <greg-g> uh oh
[16:24]  * greg-g decides not to catch up on scrollback
[16:28] <Blazeix> i'm glad to have a rage-buddy like rick_h. i couldn't get anyone at work to rage with me. they would recognize the stupidity, but not rage :)
[16:29] <rick_h> well, I mean...it's just *wrong* not even stupid
[16:29] <rick_h> "There is no legitimate reason for allowing all of a users' online  passwords to be stored and retrieved in plain text.
[16:29] <rick_h> "
[16:29] <rick_h> that is just a lie
[16:29] <rick_h> not stupid
[16:30] <Blazeix> yeah, plus, it's not really stored in plain text. it's encrypted on disk
[16:31] <rick_h> and this article is so much FUD that it's edited up to correct for its lies
[16:31] <Blazeix> using OS-level encryption facilities. so if someone steals your harddrive, they don't have your password
[16:31] <rick_h> "in 2010 firefox...oh right...still does the SAME THING"
[16:31] <Blazeix> malware can steal it, but there's no protection against that
[16:31] <Blazeix> short of not saving passwords
[16:32] <rick_h> right, just don't use the feature
[16:58] <snap-l> reminds me of the people who ut 15 locks on their front door, and then get wide-eyed when they realize every one of their windows is an entry-point
[16:59] <snap-l> And if you just realized this, I'm so sorry.
[17:00] <greg-g> "luckily" I live in a city where all accessible windows are gated up
[17:00] <greg-g> :(
[17:01] <snap-l> greg-g: Didn't you realize you lived in a gated community? :)
[17:02] <greg-g> haha
[17:03] <rick_h> Blazeix: my sprint t-shirts just arrived and they're strangely applicable! http://uploads.mitechie.com/2013-gui-sprint.jpg
[17:03] <snap-l> heh
[17:07] <greg-g> I... don't ge tit
[17:07] <greg-g> s/ t/t /
[17:08] <rick_h> greg-g: the shirt?
[17:10] <greg-g> ya
[17:11] <rick_h> greg-g: so at the sprint one of the devs went talking about some project, and lack of test, but it was ok because it had a lot of users, and broken things were found pretty quick...and
[17:11] <greg-g> heh
[17:11] <rick_h> and basically I told him "sssh, I want to be friends..."
[17:11] <rick_h> and another guy broke out the phrase on the t-shirt and it because the theme :)
[17:28] <Blazeix> rick_h: haha, awesome!
[17:29] <jrwren> FF lets you put a master passwrod on
[17:29] <rick_h> jrwren: as an option
[17:29] <jrwren> so that the password are encrypted on disk and you enter a password when you start FF
[17:29] <jrwren> yes, chrome doesn't have that option.
[17:29] <rick_h> jrwren: if the issue is "users are too stupid to realize wtf is going on"
[17:29] <jrwren> so there is a sense that chrome does need a feature
[17:29] <rick_h> it's no different
[17:29] <jrwren> i can have a password on my chrome?
[17:30] <rick_h> except when it starts and you unlock it, you still walk away with your passwords exposed
[17:30] <rick_h> jrwren: yes, use lastpass
[17:30] <rick_h> care about your passwords
[17:30] <greg-g> redirecter!
[17:30] <jrwren> holy shit, that is not even close to compariable. exiting this conversation.
[17:31] <greg-g> jrwren wasn't defending anything ,just saying "hey, why can't I put a master password on my Chrome password manager, like both Fx and Lastpass do?"
[17:31] <rick_h> greg-g: because, as the chrome guys point out, it's a false sense of security
[17:32] <rick_h> greg-g: it doesnt' change the passwords on disk, it doesn't change the feature to view them in the browser, it doesn't change the ability for someone to grab your computer and look
[17:32] <rick_h> "I've got my passwords protected...so long as I walk away from my computer, without FF open, and don't give them long enough to copy the encyrpted files off the disk..."
[17:33] <greg-g> so, I guess ya'll don't know about the user studies that have been done about this
[17:33] <rick_h> any other time...I'm just as fubar as every other browser that has the password saving feature
[17:33] <greg-g> it isn't about 'encyrption omg nsa'
[17:33] <greg-g> it's about "I don't want my mom to log into my facebook"
[17:33] <rick_h> fine, then don't let your mom log into your computer or account
[17:33] <rick_h> or don't save the password
[17:33] <greg-g> a master password does that
[17:34] <greg-g> they're going to move to just a pin-code type thing soon, too, I believe
[17:34] <rick_h> www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/07/google-chrome-password-security-flaw is not about a pin code to prevent mom from your facebook account
[17:34] <greg-g> again, don't bring it back to a flawed article that I'm not defending :)
[17:35] <rick_h> ok, so this new topic without any baggage from earilier events. A master password is good for Johnny because he can lock his mom out of his facebook?
[17:36] <greg-g> basically, but even that is too combersome for him (as the user studies showed), so users just leave it unsecure by default (chrome's default/only option), but given the user studies, Fx will provide a more simple way of saving/retrieving passwords using a pin
[17:37] <rick_h> ok, so chrome should follow FF's lead of plans to make things safer for Jonny's facebook. Carry on FF
[17:38] <Blazeix> jrwren: chrome's passwords are encrypted on disk
[17:38] <Blazeix> i know that's your main point, but just fyi
[17:38] <Blazeix> er, s/that's/that's not/
[17:40] <jrwren> encrypted with what key?
[17:41] <Blazeix> platform specific, on windows http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa380261(v=vs.85).aspx
[17:41] <Blazeix> basically just prevents the case where someone steals your laptop
[17:41] <jrwren> oh lovely! I alwyas liked that MSFT api
[17:42] <greg-g> unless you don't have a password on your account and you just suspend, right?
[17:42] <jrwren> even then they are encrypted on disk, IIRC
[17:42] <jrwren> the ms api accounts for that
[17:42] <greg-g> sure, but I could just open your laptop, open Chrome, and done
[17:42] <jrwren> right
[17:43] <greg-g> so, how many of you ever seen non techies set a userpassword on their laptops?
[17:43] <greg-g> everyone I see has it autologin when they open their laptop lid
[17:43] <rick_h> heh, I make my wife use one :)
[17:43] <greg-g> rick_h: I haven't yet convinced carrie :/
[17:44] <rick_h> but that's what I mean? If you don't care about the reste of your computer, why do you care about the chrome passwords?
[17:44] <greg-g> especially since she has her gmail always logged in... ugh
[17:44] <rick_h> there's nothing worse in there?
[17:44] <Blazeix> if they can't be bothered to set a password on their laptop, won't they be too lazy set a master browser password?
[17:44] <rick_h> greg-g: and what user, that auto logs in, will use a master passowrd on their browser?
[17:44] <rick_h> I guess I'd love to see that stufy
[17:44] <greg-g> just saying, the "encrypted on disk" thing isn't really all that much better
[17:44] <rick_h> study
[17:45] <greg-g> didn't say that, ya'll are putting words in my mouth
[17:45] <greg-g> those are two different use cases
[17:45] <rick_h> no, we're asking
[17:45] <greg-g> 1) stupid users who don't use passwords, so "encrypted on disk" doesn't mean shit
[17:45] <greg-g> 2) people who want to have security a little bit, please give them something
[17:45] <greg-g> there's other ones as well, but those are the two easiest to understand
[17:47] <brousch> I want effortless "it just works when it's me" and "it doesn't work when it's not me"
[17:47] <brousch> make it so
[17:47] <greg-g> :)
[17:47] <greg-g> isn't that the fingerprint reader idea? :)
[17:48] <_stink_> have it ask for a depraved joke
[17:48] <_stink_> that's the brousch test
[17:48] <greg-g> hahaha
[17:48] <Blazeix> for (1), they're hosed no matter what, there isn't a solution
[17:48] <greg-g> Blazeix: yep, which was only the point I was making :)
[17:49] <Blazeix> but "encrypted on disk" helps out those who have an account password
[17:49] <Blazeix> which i guess you're arguing is a minority, except maybe in a business setting
[17:49] <greg-g> right, so that's use case (3), which, I suppose, might be more common than 2 (masterpassword wanters) but no idea relatie to 1
[17:50] <greg-g> yeah, business setting you'r eprobably right
[18:35] <rick_h> hmm, so amazon sent me a box of things I never ordered
[18:35] <rick_h> no receipt, box is in my name
[18:38] <rick_h> hmm, not really a "So amazon sent you extra crap" box in the help here
[18:44] <brousch> Someone in the amazon Warehouse loves you
[18:44] <rick_h> geeze, over $500 worth of stuff :/
[18:44] <greg-g> anything good?
[18:44] <rick_h> only good thing is a JBL Charge
[18:45] <rick_h> http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Portable-Wireless-Bluetooth-Speaker/dp/B00BNIO4H8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375901096&sr=8-1&keywords=jbl+charge
[18:45] <rick_h> then three targus usb3 -> desktop workstation devices
[18:45] <rick_h> http://www.amazon.com/Targus-Docking-Station-Ultrabooks-ACP70USZ/dp/B005YR1PV2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375901130&sr=8-2&keywords=targus+superspeed
[18:46] <rick_h> amazon, I've love to give you back your stuff...but I can only do 'select returns from your orders' and since I didn't order it...can't submit it
[18:50] <rick_h> ah, joy. To the help forums we go.
[18:53] <jrwren> greg-g: where does carrie hang out? I'd like to steal her laptop :)
[18:54] <greg-g> jrwren: it is currently in a cabin in Tahoe ;)
[18:58] <brousch> Sounds like the plot of a short story
[19:12] <snap-l> rick_h: Sheesh, they could have sent you better stuff
[19:13] <snap-l> I mean the speaker is cool, but the desktop workstations are pretty meh
[19:32] <brousch> Hitting fail in my python3.3 django project. No py3 for django-debug-toolbar and django-windows-tools
[19:35] <brousch> I should see if Pyramid is any better
[19:36] <snap-l> Yes, you should
[19:37] <brousch> I have a lot bigger learning curve with it, though. I have to look up things like how to start a project
[20:28] <brousch> Pyramid setup was nicer than I remembered. I also remember being overwhelmed by all of the files and dirs pcreate sets up, but now I see it's just stuff you end up manually creating in Django later
[20:39] <brousch> For an unopinionated framework, Pyramid sure includes a lot of different templates
[20:40] <brousch> Oh no! There's zope in my pip freeze!