knomesee you all later (will be around for a while tomorrow, then back on sat for a while, and eventually on mon for good for now)00:07
ochosiall the mir testing has quite some momentum it seems06:16
ochosiwe were even featured on phoronix for that06:16
elfyochosi: I'm just really confused as to how I've seeded somewhere in the region of about 70 copies and we've had about 20 people report lol 06:20
ochosithat's actually quite an ok return rate06:21
ochosie.g. when sending out questionnaires06:22
elfywell - that assumes that I'm the only one seeding :)06:24
ochosiyeah, but generally speaking a 10% return rate is still fine06:25
NoskcajI've just packaged xfce4-settings 4.11.0, but i doubt debian will take it in time for saucy. do we want to MOTU it?07:19
Noskcajmicahg, i think you're the one to answer. ^07:23
ochosiNoskcaj: nice! that'd be the new display dialog then07:31
NoskcajI'm just about to lintian clean it then i'll see if it will work in xubuntu.07:32
* Noskcaj hates SVN and git. 07:32
ochosihaven't used svn, but i have to say i like git07:41
Noskcajdebian version is on mentors, i'll start making an ubuntu version08:02
NoskcajThere, it's all ready. what files should i upload where?08:58
knomejust posted http://open.knome.fi/2013/08/07/dont-panic-the-state-of-xubuntu-and-mir/09:36
ochosinice post09:38
knomeand thanks to pleia2 and skellat giving feedback yesterday on a short notice09:39
knomeand don't get surprised if your comment doesn't get through. i've enabled moderation for all comments for now09:40
knome(mostly because i'm going to be away from the computer until fri/sat)09:41
knomebluesabre, community-approved MP 17795910:22
knomeochosi, sorry for not getting to work on the various icons and other stuff i've promised to do10:23
knomeochosi, once i get back home, i will force myself to do that :)10:23
ochosiknome: sure, no worries. i know it's summer and *hot*10:30
ochosi(approaching 40° in austria today, new heat record since the weather is being measured/recorded)10:30
knomeok, i'm off until fri/sat10:46
knomehave fun!10:46
ochosiyou too!10:46
smartboyhwochosi, how did you manage to compile the Xubuntu with XMir ISO actually? Or is it bluesabre?10:52
ochosismartboyhw: i wasn't involved in creating the iso, better ask Unit193 10:53
smartboyhwochosi, OK10:53
smartboyhwUnit193, ^10:53
cub(j #xfce13:38
theghostHi, I have a problem with Xubuntu 13.04 and 13.10. I use lightdm with autologin and want my gnome-keyring unlocked but it does not work. Gnome compab is activated. It's working perfectly if I logout and re-login but not with autologin. Where's the trick ?13:39
ochositheghost: this is the development channel, for support you can check #xubuntu13:40
theghost@ochosi ok13:41
meetingologytheghost: Error: "ochosi" is not a valid command.13:41
=== jhenke_ is now known as jhenke
pleia2knome: posted to g+ & fb16:40
mhall119pleia2: are you guys actually getting haters just for evaluating XMir?16:50
pleia2mhall119: yes16:50
mhall119wow :(16:51
mhall119let me know if there's anything I can do from the community team's side16:51
mhall119also let me know if you need me to annoy somebody in Canonical for you, regarding Mir itself16:51
pleia2the public comments have been the most tame, long emails of FUD that when pressed say "well of course I didn't try it"16:51
pleia2privately to me, less tame16:51
pleia2jono got us hooked up with some Mir devs, they're being awesome about prioritizing our bugs :)16:52
mhall119well then let me state publicly that you guys are awesome, always have been, and I'm sure you will do what is right for Xubuntu16:52
pleia2thanks mhall119!16:53
mhall119where are bugs being filed?16:56
mhall119https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir ?16:56
elfymhall119: that's where I filed mine 17:00
elfyand I'm pretty sure the others have been there as well17:01
pleia2yeah, then we follow up with devs when we collect some critical ones, ie https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-August/009219.html17:01
mhall119are you guys using a specific tag for bugs found in Xubuntu?17:04
pleia2I don't think so17:04
elfymhall119: I didn't, but then again we're not completely sure they are JUST xubuntu - opnly that we know we found them17:05
mhall119it might help, that way you could easily get a list of bugs that are known to affect Xubuntu and what their status is17:05
mhall119it could help you come decision time, you can see what's fixed and what isn't, but also how well we've been doing with fixing them17:07
elfymhall119: I agree with the first part17:08
elfythe second is kind of not :)17:08
elfyat least not in relation to 13.10 17:08
skellatpleia2: What are the purveyors of FUD expecting?  Some inter-dimensional rift will open up and spew out Lovecraftian creatures if they try XMir?  :-)  Change is difficult even with the slow, pragmatic approach we're taking.  There is an unavoidable friction gradient but to go to such venomous levels is not cool.17:08
elfypeople tend not to be if they aren't there with you 17:09
pleia2skellat: I don't think logic plays into it here, just fear :)17:09
mhall119skellat: we're actively working on fixing the Cthuhlu leak17:09
skellatmhall119: +!17:09
skellatmhall119: +117:09
pleia2it also doesn't make sense that we would seek to releaes an OS that doesn't work for most people (or that after years of trusting us, all of a sudden we're stupid sellouts who will ruin the OS)17:09
skellatpleia2: Quite a number of changes have come very fast for people to digest in 2013.  People may still be caught up in the backwash from that even though Xubuntu wasn't really affected.17:10
skellati.e. The virtual UDS shift, the rolling release debate, the Mir launch, the drive to get the phone out, etc.17:11
pleia2yeah, that was all handled poorly, I'm still not thrilled about it, but it's time to move on17:11
skellatpleia2: I know that, you know that.  Moving on is a very difficult thing for far too many people, though.  That's what we're dealing with still.17:12
pleia2skellat: *nod*17:12
skellatmhall119: That's an area where the community team can help, to an extent.  People holding onto adverse moments and not letting go helped deplete the ranks of Ubuntu Ohio quite a bit.  Helping people move forward while recognizing that there is some ill/bad will floating around that needs resolution is gonna be needed one of these days.17:14
skellatWe've seen it pile up in other areas beside my local bailiwick and the XMir case.  17:17
mhall119skellat: I agree, unfortunately I'm not sure how to get people to let go and move on17:17
mhall119oddly enough, telling them to let go and move on doesn't usually work :)17:17
elfynot sure there is a way to be honest17:17
skellatmhall119: Locally knocking heads works wonderfully with the politicians17:18
* elfy has more than enough experience of those people17:18
mhall119we've been actively pushing changes internally so that we don't make the same mistakes again, and hope that over time we can re-build the lost trust and good will17:18
elfynot sure there's much the cc can do about it either17:18
skellatmhall119: Internal change is good but it has to be expressed outwardly17:18
skellatSometimes Mr. Shuttleworth is the worst possible person to express such, though17:19
elfymhall119: time heals most things eventually for most people - you'll never gain back some, but ... 17:19
mhall119skellat: not much I can do there :)17:19
skellatI know17:20
skellatA few good centering statements setting the scene as to where the project stands, where things are going, and the like can do wonders to help at least letting people know where things stand.  Doing that before vUDS-1308 can be useful.17:21
skellatBut alas, we're far afield from XMir now17:22
* skellat really has to stop doing back room lobbying of politicians17:23
elfyno reason to stop - just do it in -offtopic ;)17:24
skellatelfy: No, I've been doing it in real life/meat space17:24
mhall119or #ubuntu-community-team, where it's ontopic17:24
skellatmhall119 is definitely not a politician17:24
elfynot seen anythign about the next vuds anywhere17:24
ochosiwait, "meat space"? you mean a butchery?17:25
ochosithe phrase "those bloody politicians" gains a new perspective...17:25
ochosislowly but surely i'm really really looking forward to the day we'll use gtk317:26
ochosihidpi support and all that jazz...17:26
mhall119skellat: no, I'm too practical and introverted to be a politician17:28
mhall119elfy: next vUDS is later this month17:28
mhall119if you want new BP's for it you can start filing them now17:28
mhall119though I expect most will just follow-up on last vUDS's BP getting ready for 13.1017:29
Unit193pleia2: Dang, sorry about that mail, bummer you got it. :/18:11
xubuntu-mir353hi everyone18:28
xubuntu-mir353can i post here unity system compositor log18:28
xubuntu-mir353xmir doesn-t start18:29
Unit193Try in http://paste.openstack.org and post the link here, please.18:29
xubuntu-mir353where can i find similar common problem about xubuntu&xmir18:30
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
NoskcajDoes anyone want the ubuntu version od xfce4-settings 4.11 ? I've finished packaging it.20:08
ochosiNoskcaj: you couldput it in a PPA, but in general it would be nice if we got it in saucy imo20:18
lderani can give it a try in a bit :)20:18
NoskcajI'll do that now20:18
ochosiNoskcaj: also, i talked to bluesabre abiut packaging some dev-packages for xfce to make building easier of some components20:19
ochosiso if you wanna do more packaging, that'd also be useful20:20
ochosior more daily archives for xfce stuff20:20
NoskcajAs long as i don't have to use SVN or git, i'll keep packaging20:22
ochosiwell xfce is all in git20:22
lderani've only packaged 1 thing so far lol20:23
ochosibut what would you prefer? bzr?20:23
lderanif you need a hand with git I could attempt to help :)20:26
NoskcajI'm not a fan of version control in general, and have bad experiences with both of the above20:26
Noskcajmostly SVN20:26
ochosiwell pretty much all software development happens with some version control software20:26
ochosianything else is crazy imo20:27
ochosibut what's the problem? in the end you use a release tarball anyway, so no need to interact with git or anything20:27
NoskcajMostly that SVM won't let me commit xfce changes, or use the per-user URL20:28
ochosi but svn hasnt been used for xfce for years now..?20:29
Noskcajsorry, SVN for xfce-debian20:31
NoskcajI've not done anything upstream because i don't know any C and that bug tracker is the least informative thing i have ever seen20:32
Noskcaj /rant20:32
ochosibugzilla takes some getting used to20:32
ochosibut then it's ok20:33
ochosigotta go sleep now, ttyl and kudos for the packaging!20:33
lderangood night ochosi 20:33
Noskcajg'night ochosi 20:33
NoskcajThere, the new settings release is now on my ppa. ppa:noskcaj/packaging21:27
lderanawesome :D21:31
Unit193http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/trunk/changes/918?start_revid=938 from 899-current (938), see anything interesting?21:40
Unit193I don't see anything worth a re-build.21:40
bluesabreknome: thanks!23:24
bluesabreso, now what?23:24
bluesabreActually, already had 3 cookies today :)23:26
micahgNoskcaj: we don't want 4.11.x releases in Ubuntu yet, need to have a firm 4.12 release schedule before we'd take those23:40

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