[00:07] <knome> see you all later (will be around for a while tomorrow, then back on sat for a while, and eventually on mon for good for now)
[00:07] <knome> ->
[06:16] <ochosi> all the mir testing has quite some momentum it seems
[06:16] <ochosi> we were even featured on phoronix for that
[06:20] <elfy> ochosi: I'm just really confused as to how I've seeded somewhere in the region of about 70 copies and we've had about 20 people report lol 
[06:21] <ochosi> that's actually quite an ok return rate
[06:22] <ochosi> e.g. when sending out questionnaires
[06:24] <elfy> well - that assumes that I'm the only one seeding :)
[06:25] <ochosi> yeah, but generally speaking a 10% return rate is still fine
[06:26] <pleia2> yep
[07:19] <Noskcaj> I've just packaged xfce4-settings 4.11.0, but i doubt debian will take it in time for saucy. do we want to MOTU it?
[07:23] <Noskcaj> micahg, i think you're the one to answer. ^
[07:31] <ochosi> Noskcaj: nice! that'd be the new display dialog then
[07:32] <Noskcaj> I'm just about to lintian clean it then i'll see if it will work in xubuntu.
[07:32]  * Noskcaj hates SVN and git. 
[07:41] <ochosi> haven't used svn, but i have to say i like git
[08:02] <Noskcaj> debian version is on mentors, i'll start making an ubuntu version
[08:25] <lderan> cool
[08:58] <Noskcaj> There, it's all ready. what files should i upload where?
[09:36] <knome> just posted http://open.knome.fi/2013/08/07/dont-panic-the-state-of-xubuntu-and-mir/
[09:38] <ochosi> nice post
[09:39] <knome> ta
[09:39] <knome> and thanks to pleia2 and skellat giving feedback yesterday on a short notice
[09:40] <knome> and don't get surprised if your comment doesn't get through. i've enabled moderation for all comments for now
[09:41] <knome> (mostly because i'm going to be away from the computer until fri/sat)
[10:22] <knome> bluesabre, community-approved MP 177959
[10:23] <knome> ochosi, sorry for not getting to work on the various icons and other stuff i've promised to do
[10:23] <knome> ochosi, once i get back home, i will force myself to do that :)
[10:30] <ochosi> knome: sure, no worries. i know it's summer and *hot*
[10:30] <ochosi> (approaching 40° in austria today, new heat record since the weather is being measured/recorded)
[10:30] <knome> ugh!
[10:46] <knome> ok, i'm off until fri/sat
[10:46] <knome> have fun!
[10:46] <ochosi> you too!
[10:46] <ochosi> seeya
[10:52] <smartboyhw> ochosi, how did you manage to compile the Xubuntu with XMir ISO actually? Or is it bluesabre?
[10:53] <ochosi> smartboyhw: i wasn't involved in creating the iso, better ask Unit193 
[10:53] <smartboyhw> ochosi, OK
[10:53] <smartboyhw> Unit193, ^
[13:38] <cub> (j #xfce
[13:38] <ochosi> :)
[13:39] <theghost> Hi, I have a problem with Xubuntu 13.04 and 13.10. I use lightdm with autologin and want my gnome-keyring unlocked but it does not work. Gnome compab is activated. It's working perfectly if I logout and re-login but not with autologin. Where's the trick ?
[13:40] <ochosi> theghost: this is the development channel, for support you can check #xubuntu
[13:41] <theghost> @ochosi ok
[13:41] <meetingology> theghost: Error: "ochosi" is not a valid command.
[16:39] <pleia2> http://www.mylinuxrig.com/post/57612670230/my-return-to-xubuntu-a-review
[16:40] <pleia2> knome: posted to g+ & fb
[16:50] <mhall119> pleia2: are you guys actually getting haters just for evaluating XMir?
[16:50] <pleia2> mhall119: yes
[16:51] <mhall119> wow :(
[16:51] <mhall119> let me know if there's anything I can do from the community team's side
[16:51] <mhall119> also let me know if you need me to annoy somebody in Canonical for you, regarding Mir itself
[16:51] <pleia2> the public comments have been the most tame, long emails of FUD that when pressed say "well of course I didn't try it"
[16:51] <pleia2> privately to me, less tame
[16:51] <mhall119> :(
[16:52] <pleia2> jono got us hooked up with some Mir devs, they're being awesome about prioritizing our bugs :)
[16:52] <mhall119> well then let me state publicly that you guys are awesome, always have been, and I'm sure you will do what is right for Xubuntu
[16:53] <pleia2> thanks mhall119!
[16:56] <mhall119> where are bugs being filed?
[16:56] <mhall119> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir ?
[17:00] <elfy> mhall119: that's where I filed mine 
[17:01] <elfy> and I'm pretty sure the others have been there as well
[17:01] <pleia2> yeah, then we follow up with devs when we collect some critical ones, ie https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-August/009219.html
[17:04] <mhall119> are you guys using a specific tag for bugs found in Xubuntu?
[17:04] <pleia2> I don't think so
[17:05] <elfy> mhall119: I didn't, but then again we're not completely sure they are JUST xubuntu - opnly that we know we found them
[17:05] <mhall119> it might help, that way you could easily get a list of bugs that are known to affect Xubuntu and what their status is
[17:07] <mhall119> it could help you come decision time, you can see what's fixed and what isn't, but also how well we've been doing with fixing them
[17:08] <elfy> mhall119: I agree with the first part
[17:08] <elfy> the second is kind of not :)
[17:08] <elfy> at least not in relation to 13.10 
[17:08] <skellat> pleia2: What are the purveyors of FUD expecting?  Some inter-dimensional rift will open up and spew out Lovecraftian creatures if they try XMir?  :-)  Change is difficult even with the slow, pragmatic approach we're taking.  There is an unavoidable friction gradient but to go to such venomous levels is not cool.
[17:09] <elfy> people tend not to be if they aren't there with you 
[17:09] <pleia2> skellat: I don't think logic plays into it here, just fear :)
[17:09] <mhall119> skellat: we're actively working on fixing the Cthuhlu leak
[17:09] <skellat> mhall119: +!
[17:09] <skellat> mhall119: +1
[17:09] <pleia2> it also doesn't make sense that we would seek to releaes an OS that doesn't work for most people (or that after years of trusting us, all of a sudden we're stupid sellouts who will ruin the OS)
[17:10] <skellat> pleia2: Quite a number of changes have come very fast for people to digest in 2013.  People may still be caught up in the backwash from that even though Xubuntu wasn't really affected.
[17:11] <skellat> i.e. The virtual UDS shift, the rolling release debate, the Mir launch, the drive to get the phone out, etc.
[17:11] <pleia2> yeah, that was all handled poorly, I'm still not thrilled about it, but it's time to move on
[17:12] <mhall119> +1
[17:12] <skellat> pleia2: I know that, you know that.  Moving on is a very difficult thing for far too many people, though.  That's what we're dealing with still.
[17:12] <pleia2> skellat: *nod*
[17:14] <skellat> mhall119: That's an area where the community team can help, to an extent.  People holding onto adverse moments and not letting go helped deplete the ranks of Ubuntu Ohio quite a bit.  Helping people move forward while recognizing that there is some ill/bad will floating around that needs resolution is gonna be needed one of these days.
[17:17] <skellat> We've seen it pile up in other areas beside my local bailiwick and the XMir case.  
[17:17] <mhall119> skellat: I agree, unfortunately I'm not sure how to get people to let go and move on
[17:17] <mhall119> oddly enough, telling them to let go and move on doesn't usually work :)
[17:17] <elfy> not sure there is a way to be honest
[17:18] <skellat> mhall119: Locally knocking heads works wonderfully with the politicians
[17:18] <skellat> :-)
[17:18]  * elfy has more than enough experience of those people
[17:18] <mhall119> we've been actively pushing changes internally so that we don't make the same mistakes again, and hope that over time we can re-build the lost trust and good will
[17:18] <elfy> not sure there's much the cc can do about it either
[17:18] <skellat> mhall119: Internal change is good but it has to be expressed outwardly
[17:19] <skellat> Sometimes Mr. Shuttleworth is the worst possible person to express such, though
[17:19] <elfy> mhall119: time heals most things eventually for most people - you'll never gain back some, but ... 
[17:19] <mhall119> skellat: not much I can do there :)
[17:20] <skellat> I know
[17:21] <skellat> A few good centering statements setting the scene as to where the project stands, where things are going, and the like can do wonders to help at least letting people know where things stand.  Doing that before vUDS-1308 can be useful.
[17:22] <skellat> But alas, we're far afield from XMir now
[17:23]  * skellat really has to stop doing back room lobbying of politicians
[17:24] <elfy> no reason to stop - just do it in -offtopic ;)
[17:24] <skellat> elfy: No, I've been doing it in real life/meat space
[17:24] <mhall119> or #ubuntu-community-team, where it's ontopic
[17:24] <skellat> mhall119 is definitely not a politician
[17:24] <elfy> not seen anythign about the next vuds anywhere
[17:25] <ochosi> wait, "meat space"? you mean a butchery?
[17:25] <skellat> :-D
[17:25] <ochosi> the phrase "those bloody politicians" gains a new perspective...
[17:26] <ochosi> slowly but surely i'm really really looking forward to the day we'll use gtk3
[17:26] <ochosi> hidpi support and all that jazz...
[17:28] <mhall119> skellat: no, I'm too practical and introverted to be a politician
[17:28] <mhall119> elfy: next vUDS is later this month
[17:28] <mhall119> http://uds.ubuntu.com/
[17:28] <mhall119> if you want new BP's for it you can start filing them now
[17:29] <mhall119> though I expect most will just follow-up on last vUDS's BP getting ready for 13.10
[17:29] <elfy> yea
[18:11] <Unit193> pleia2: Dang, sorry about that mail, bummer you got it. :/
[18:28] <xubuntu-mir353> hi everyone
[18:28] <Unit193> Howdy.
[18:28] <xubuntu-mir353> can i post here unity system compositor log
[18:29] <xubuntu-mir353> xmir doesn-t start
[18:29] <Unit193> Try in http://paste.openstack.org and post the link here, please.
[18:30] <xubuntu-mir353> where can i find similar common problem about xubuntu&xmir
[18:33] <Unit193> Well...
[20:08] <Noskcaj> Does anyone want the ubuntu version od xfce4-settings 4.11 ? I've finished packaging it.
[20:18] <ochosi> Noskcaj: you couldput it in a PPA, but in general it would be nice if we got it in saucy imo
[20:18] <lderan> i can give it a try in a bit :)
[20:18] <Noskcaj> I'll do that now
[20:19] <ochosi> Noskcaj: also, i talked to bluesabre abiut packaging some dev-packages for xfce to make building easier of some components
[20:19] <Noskcaj> cool
[20:20] <ochosi> so if you wanna do more packaging, that'd also be useful
[20:20] <ochosi> or more daily archives for xfce stuff
[20:22] <Noskcaj> As long as i don't have to use SVN or git, i'll keep packaging
[20:22] <lderan> :P
[20:22] <ochosi> well xfce is all in git
[20:23] <lderan> i've only packaged 1 thing so far lol
[20:23] <ochosi> but what would you prefer? bzr?
[20:26] <lderan> if you need a hand with git I could attempt to help :)
[20:26] <Noskcaj> I'm not a fan of version control in general, and have bad experiences with both of the above
[20:26] <Noskcaj> mostly SVN
[20:26] <ochosi> well pretty much all software development happens with some version control software
[20:27] <ochosi> anything else is crazy imo
[20:27] <ochosi> but what's the problem? in the end you use a release tarball anyway, so no need to interact with git or anything
[20:28] <Noskcaj> Mostly that SVM won't let me commit xfce changes, or use the per-user URL
[20:29] <ochosi>  but svn hasnt been used for xfce for years now..?
[20:31] <Noskcaj> sorry, SVN for xfce-debian
[20:32] <Noskcaj> I've not done anything upstream because i don't know any C and that bug tracker is the least informative thing i have ever seen
[20:32] <Noskcaj>  /rant
[20:32] <ochosi> hehe
[20:32] <ochosi> bugzilla takes some getting used to
[20:33] <ochosi> but then it's ok
[20:33] <ochosi> gotta go sleep now, ttyl and kudos for the packaging!
[20:33] <lderan> good night ochosi 
[20:33] <Noskcaj> g'night ochosi 
[21:27] <Noskcaj> There, the new settings release is now on my ppa. ppa:noskcaj/packaging
[21:31] <lderan> awesome :D
[21:40] <Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/trunk/changes/918?start_revid=938 from 899-current (938), see anything interesting?
[21:40] <Unit193> I don't see anything worth a re-build.
[23:24] <bluesabre> knome: thanks!
[23:24] <bluesabre> so, now what?
[23:26] <Unit193> Cookies.
[23:26] <bluesabre> Yes.
[23:26] <bluesabre> Actually, already had 3 cookies today :)
[23:40] <micahg> Noskcaj: we don't want 4.11.x releases in Ubuntu yet, need to have a firm 4.12 release schedule before we'd take those