[01:07] <mnaines> Is there any reason why I was banned from #ubuntu this morning?
[01:52] <Flannel> mnaines: None that I can see.  You do have some history a while back, so I'll just give a blanket reminder to read and follow the channel guidelines and CoC (links in topic).  I've removed your ban.  Please make sure I did it properly.
[01:53] <mnaines> Yes, it works...
[01:54] <mnaines> I don't even know what the past bans were for anymore
[01:54] <mnaines> I know one of them was something about being oto
[01:54] <mnaines> o4o, I mean
[01:55] <Flannel> mnaines: It's nothing to worry about.  Just follow the guidelines and the CoC.  That's what matters!
[01:55] <mnaines> Fair enough
[09:57] <syko> hi
[09:58] <syko> anybody ?
[10:00] <syko> i joined freenode, and did /join #ubuntu, it says "you have been banned", i never came here but i have been banned ?
[10:00] <syko> i asked a moderator at #freenode, he says there is wideban on me
 [09:55] ~~~Irssi: Ban against *!*@119.157.* matches syko!~syk0@119.157.184.61
[10:02] <syko> ?
[10:04] <syko> !ops hi
[10:04] <syko> !ops
[10:04] <syko> please see previous msg
[10:05] <jared> syko: I'm sure someone will be along soon, apologies I don't have access to the channel you're referring to.
[10:19] <AlanBell> syko: one sec, I will sort that out
[10:20] <syko> AlanBell, a moderator on freenode told me you guys banned 119.157.x.x
[10:20] <syko> 119.157.x.x is the default ip range of PTCL
[10:20] <syko> PTCL is the biggest ISP of Pakistan
[10:20] <syko> so you banned 50/50 of Pakistan
[10:20] <syko> see https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=cr#bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=a898ec0b8e97eb61&psj=1&q=119.157.+ptcl
[10:21] <AlanBell> yeah, I know
[10:21] <syko> you are not a operator, alanbell
[10:21] <syko> it doesnt show ur name in emergencies
[10:21] <AlanBell> syko: try now
[10:21] <syko> yes
[10:21] <syko> now it works
[10:21] <syko> thank you
[10:22] <AlanBell> it was a temporary ban set last week for someone who was bouncing around lots of IP addresses
[10:22] <syko> i see
[10:22] <AlanBell> sorry you got caught in the crossfire :)
[10:22] <syko> its ok :)
[10:26] <AlanBell> syko: can you part from this channel now please, we like to help people one at a time
[10:31] <ikonia> AlanBell: that's the same guy the ban was there to catch
[16:34] <k1l> debian and mint support in one question. i think that is the highscore so far :)
[17:08] <IdleOne> Guest42793 is one of them conspiracy cooks
[17:08] <IdleOne> that is why I muted in #u
[17:09] <bazhang> also a fairly regular troll of multiple channels
[17:09] <bazhang> yodel-alay-eho!
[17:09] <IdleOne> -ehoooo!*
[17:10] <bazhang> never tried to write it before
[17:11] <IdleOne> I wasn't so much correcting as much as I was adding my voice to the yodel.
[17:11] <IdleOne> I thought it would be nice if we harmonized
[17:11] <IdleOne> :)
[21:58] <Guest42793> what the fuck is your problem
[21:58] <IdleOne> well first off, that sort of language
[21:58] <Guest42793> who is abusing their op privileges on the Ubuntu channel?
[21:59] <IdleOne> are you talking about the mute in #ubuntu?
[21:59] <Guest42793> yes, who muted me and why
[22:00] <Guest42793> i leave and come back and realized i was muted
[22:00] <IdleOne> I muted you because you kept cross posting off topic comments in both #ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic. Seeing how you just wanted to discuss off topic subjects I figured I would just mute you and stop you from breaking channel policy in #ubuntu
[22:01] <IdleOne> if you can keep your comments in #ubuntu support related only. I'll gladly remove the mute.
[22:01] <Guest42793> what exactly did i cross post, it was only one thing and started to talk on the other channel when i was told
[22:02] <IdleOne> if you know it was only one thing why ask me what it was??
[22:02] <Guest42793> is asking about Zeitgeist not related to Ubuntu?
[22:02] <IdleOne> it isn't a ubuntu support question
[22:02] <IdleOne> and you were answered
[22:02] <Guest42793> is Zeitgeist integrated in Ubuntu install ISOs?
[22:03] <IdleOne> you asked about the company that google apparently owns that is named zeitgeist
[22:03] <Guest42793> what is wrong with asking if it Google's Zeitgeist is the same Zeitgeist that is integrated in Ubuntu?
[22:04] <IdleOne> nothing actually, what was wrong was the cross posting
[22:04] <Guest42793> so if i say hello on 2  channels is considered cross posting?
[22:04] <IdleOne> Seeing how google zeitgeist is not the same thing as the zeitgeist in ubuntu, that makes it off topic.
[22:05] <Guest42793> both channels are Ubuntu channels and not everyone is on both channels who may know the answer
[22:05] <IdleOne> Do you want to resolve this mute and have it removed or do you just want to argue about it?
[22:05] <Guest42793> bot
[22:05] <Guest42793> both
[22:06] <IdleOne> I see. I am not going to argue either or remove the mute. Have a good day.
[22:07] <Guest42793> how would i know if Google Zeitgeist is the same Zeitgeist that Ubuntu uses? which what the reason i was asking about it
[22:08] <Guest42793> was*
[22:08] <Guest42793> both are called Zeitgeist and both are logging agents
[22:08] <tsimpson> maybe you can fine the web page for the company and see if it mentions a the software
[22:10] <Guest42793> so now i am not allowed to get any Ubuntu support because an op didn't like a support question that i asked
[22:11] <tsimpson> that wasn't really a support question
[22:11] <tsimpson> and that's not even the reason for the quiet, as was explained
[22:12] <Guest42793> if you were looking for an answer to a question, would you not want multiple opinions to help you discover the answer?
[22:13] <tsimpson> sure, if there were multiple unrelated channels which could be such a source
[22:14] <tsimpson> but that's not the case, as #ubuntu is _only_ for Ubuntu technical support
[22:14] <Guest42793> i asked a Ubuntu question on Ubuntu channels, what is wrong with that?
[22:14] <IdleOne> if it was a support question (I am not saying it was) why ask it in the offtopic channel where the topic clearly says that it isn't a support channel, and if it isn't an ubuntu support question (which I believe it isn't) why ask in in the support channel
[22:14] <tsimpson> just because it has the word "Ubuntu" in it doesn't make it an Ubuntu technical support question
[22:16] <IdleOne> Would me asking where to get my Ubuntu logo/circle of friends tattoo touched up be am appropriate question for #ubuntu?
[22:16] <IdleOne> s/am/an/
[22:16] <Guest42793> first, you should put only "technical" or software related support on the ubuntu channel, which Zeitgeist happens to be software related to Ubuntu
[22:17] <tsimpson> you're still stuck on the "related to Ubuntu" thing, that's not the point
[22:17] <tsimpson> it has to be an Ubuntu technical support question
[22:18] <tsimpson> "How do I install zeitgeist" would qualify, for example
[22:18] <Guest42793> Technical is not even on the channel topic
[22:18] <Guest42793> support just means support
[22:19] <tsimpson> stop trying to find ways of saying you didn't "technically" do anything
[22:19] <tsimpson> that's not going to work for you
[22:19] <Guest42793> a Firefighter support team
[22:19] <tsimpson> either you can accept that it's against our rules, or you can't
[22:19] <Guest42793> its proper english
[22:20] <Guest42793> if you go to dell they have phones numbers for Customer Support and Technical Support, when anyone just says support it usually implies customer/user support
[22:21] <tsimpson> so you can't accept it, that means I can't help you with removing the quiet
[22:22] <Guest42793> but that is not even the point, why should an op one Ubuntu be able to dictate that someone can say or ask on another channel
[22:22] <Guest42793> on*
[22:22] <tsimpson> they are there to keep the channels on-topic
[22:22] <Guest42793> it was, apparently i was muted because i asked the same question on two different channels
[22:23] <tsimpson> yes, you cross posted
[22:23] <tsimpson> which is another thing ops look out for
[22:23] <Guest42793> if i am an op on this channel and see you ask the same question on the linux channel, why should i mute you?
[22:23] <tsimpson> the channels have unrelated topics, so any cross posting is obviously off-topic in one of the channels
[22:24] <tsimpson> if you're an op on your own channel you get to make up your own rules, we have ours and they are linked to in the topic of #ubuntu
[22:24] <Guest42793> is channels are unrelated then why should it matter?
[22:24] <Guest42793> if*
[22:24] <Guest42793> that is totally BS
[22:25] <tsimpson> they have an unrelated topic, one is for technical support and the other isn't
[22:25] <tsimpson> it's not hard to understand
[22:26] <Guest42793> so if you don't know if the question is a support or off topic question, what is wrong with asking on both channels?
[22:26] <tsimpson> support questions go one place, off-topic stuff goes to another
[22:26] <tsimpson> not both
[22:26] <Guest42793> this is just another sign of ops abusing their privileges
[22:27] <tsimpson> those are our rules
[22:27] <tsimpson> if you don't agree with our rules, that's fine, you're free to find other avenues of communication
[22:27] <Guest42793> you didn't even answer my question "so if you don't know if the question is a support or off topic question, what is wrong with asking on both channels?"
[22:28] <tsimpson> then you ask in _one_ of those channels and see if someone tells you it'd be better off asking in the other channel
[22:29] <Guest42793> if i see you say something i don't like on a channel called #computers does that mean i should mute you on the Official Ubuntu Support channel?
[22:29] <Guest42793> think about it
[22:29] <IdleOne> I didn't see you cross posting from out of the ubuntu namespace. I saw you do it from within our namespace.
[22:30] <IdleOne> what you post in other channels that have nothing to do with ubuntu don't concern me as it relates to my op duties
[22:30] <Guest42793> if had a Dell computer and complained about customer support, managers would actually do something about it because customers are important, but here it is the total opposite
[22:31] <IdleOne> you're not a customer, you haven't paid us anything.
[22:31] <Guest42793> when linux software in general there is a sense of snob
[22:31] <tsimpson> we do have an appeal process if you'd rather go through that
[22:31] <tsimpson> !appeals
[22:32] <Guest42793> exactly, which is why there is a sense of snobiness in linux
[22:32] <Guest42793> and why linux does not adopt more users from windows
[22:32] <tsimpson> now you have the link if you want to appeal
[22:32] <tsimpson> anything else we can help you with?
[22:32] <LjL-Alps> maybe we should run an Adopt A Windows User campaign
[22:33] <Guest42793> so basically it was pointless even coming here
[22:33] <IdleOne> indeed
[22:33] <tsimpson> Guest42793: if you disagree with the action, I suggest you follow the instructions in the above link
[22:34] <Guest42793> which appeal is probably just going to go to you
[22:34] <tsimpson> they go to the IRC Council
[22:35] <tsimpson> they will decide if it was right or wrong
[22:36] <Guest42793> think about it, if i muted you on a channel and you wanted the mute overturned you would have to come back to me and beg LOL
[22:36] <LjL-Alps> well if it were your channel, how would that not be reasonable? you set the rules.
[22:37] <tsimpson> depends on the process whoever runs that channel has in place
[22:37] <Guest42793> i'm glad successful companies always put their users first
[22:37] <IdleOne> We aren't a company
[22:37] <Guest42793> LjL-Alps, you do not own nor invented Ubuntu
[22:38] <tsimpson> everyone here is a volunteer
[22:38] <IdleOne> We are a community of volunteers trying to help keep a little bit of sanity in a large number of irc channels with a large number of users. Some of those users don't like the rules and they are free to not use the channels.
[22:38] <LjL-Alps> Guest42793: yet the whole infrastructure that does own and has invented Ubuntu appointed various people, among which me, to run these channels.
[22:39] <Guest42793> yeah, ops should actually be voted by Ubuntu users, anyone can volunteer that does not mean they have automatic authority over every else just because they are a volunterr
[22:39] <IdleOne> they are
[22:39] <tsimpson> Guest42793: ops are assigned by the IRC Council, the IRC Council is voted for by IRC users and assigned by the Ubuntu Community Council
[22:40] <LjL-Alps> Guest42793: i'm sure most of these companies you mention that put their users first have their users vote on their management
[22:40] <Guest42793> ops should actually be paid, so that if anyone does have issues with an op they will lose their pay
[22:40] <LjL-Alps> you're full of ideas, why don't you mail the IRC Council about them
[22:40] <IdleOne> Will you pay membership fees to be able to use our irc channels?
[22:40] <Guest42793> if it is volunteer it should be by vote, if it is by pay people vote by how they spend their money
[22:40] <IdleOne> this money you think ops should be paid needs to come from somewhere
[22:41] <Guest42793> If people do have good experience with Ubuntu they will donate
[22:41] <tsimpson> we clearly aren't going to resolve your quiet right now, is there anything else?
[22:41] <Guest42793> tsimpson, why not
[22:42] <tsimpson> because you don't agree with our rules, or how we apply them
[22:42] <tsimpson> time for you to move on in the appeals process
[22:42] <Guest42793> a portion of Ubuntu's revenues should to support to ensure better quality support to help users instead of arguing with them
[22:42] <tsimpson> so there's nothing else?
[22:43] <Guest42793> tsimpson, your rules are anything you say and do is right. period.
[22:43] <Guest42793> think about it, there is nothing wrong with asking the same question on 2 different channels when both channels are Ubuntu topic channels
[22:43] <tsimpson> well that's not true as we have them documented in the #ubuntu topic
[22:44] <tsimpson> you disagree with them, fine
[22:44] <tsimpson> but that means we can't help you in here any more
[22:55] <IdleOne> @mark Guest42793 ~superman@24-246-51-209.cable.teksavvy.com