[00:35] <ali1234> use a text editor for text entry
[00:36] <ali1234> then format it in word or whatever
[00:36] <Azelphur> heh, or just use a editor that doesn't suck :P
[00:36] <Azelphur> failure to save on crash, failure to autosave, and crashing on save, 3 counts of fail :(
[00:36]  * Azelphur punishes it to apt-get remove :P
[00:38] <daftykins> hate to be Captain Hindsight, but i must admit if it's going to be something a fair amount of effort is going into, i tend to save pretty early :(
[00:38] <Azelphur> yea, it was supposed to be on auto save
[00:39] <Azelphur> and I didn't exactly expect it to fall over and die from a simple action such as "save" :P
[00:39] <daftykins> does that really do anything prior to saving once though? i was imagining you meant you were sort of still in 'Untitled' mode
[00:39] <Azelphur> daftykins: no, I was editing an existing document, and it's supposed to auto-save every 5 minutes
[00:40] <daftykins> oh right
[00:40] <Azelphur> it stopped auto saving for a good hour, at least, without saying anything
[00:40] <daftykins> that's worse still then :(
[00:40] <Azelphur> and then crashed on save
[00:40] <Azelphur> yea
[00:40] <daftykins> what you need is a good reliable system like the one i just had a fiddle with
[00:40] <daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/u5QDZ9h.jpg
[00:40] <daftykins> :D
[00:40] <Azelphur> heh, well libreoffice has crash recovery, as do most sane office suites
[00:40] <daftykins> wee laptop underneath ;)
[00:40] <Azelphur> daftykins: lol
[00:41] <daftykins> also i know, i know, i don't have as many screens as you :(
[00:41] <Azelphur> is that the logitech speaker with a screen on it?
[00:41] <daftykins> but they are nice ones
[00:41] <daftykins> in the middle? nah that's just the centre channel on its' little feet
[00:43] <ali1234> no, the thing witht he bright blue stripe on it to the right of the right monitor
[00:43] <ali1234> and the big dial
[00:43] <daftykins> oooh
[00:43] <daftykins> that's the control unit
[00:44] <daftykins> weirdly inputs go into there then go over what is basically a 9 pin serial cable to the amp in the subwoofer box on the floor
[00:44] <daftykins> using digital coaxial of late
[01:19] <neuro> well, that's my star trek deep space nine marathon finished
[01:19] <neuro> forgot how bloody good it is
[01:40] <ali1234> the other day on a whim i decided to download and rewatch wild palms
[01:41] <ali1234> for a 20 year old show it's pretty good... if anything it was ahead of it's time
[01:42] <ali1234> well, i've only watched the first episode so far...
[01:48] <neuro> wow, that's going back a bit
[01:48] <neuro> don't think i ever watched it
[01:48] <neuro> holy crap, the cast looks awesome
[01:48] <neuro> ah, brad dourif, everyone's favourite movie nutjob
[01:49] <ali1234> yeah and he is a good guy in it
[01:49] <neuro> It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
[01:50] <neuro> ah, god bless youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMBb_tPPA8E
[01:51] <ali1234> some of the things they got right: teleconference holograms, patent lawyers causing trouble
[01:51] <neuro> what, wild palms?
[01:51] <ali1234> things they got wrong: everyone is old and wears a suit. lol
[01:51] <ali1234> yeah
[01:52] <neuro> it's funny how many 80s and 90s scifi occasionally predicted something pretty close to what we've got now
[01:52] <neuro> only occasionally, mind
[01:52] <ali1234> indeed. often the little things too, more than the obvious stuff too
[01:52] <neuro> yeah
[01:53] <neuro> and then there's scifi influencing tech; star trek has a lot to answer for!
[01:53] <neuro> crazy boffin types trying to invent anti-matter and warp speed
[01:53] <ali1234> i don't think wild palms influenced anyone... it was critically panned and forgotten
[01:53] <neuro> i'm pretty sure these are the guys who will get the planet sucked into a black hole, never mind the LHC
[01:54] <neuro> bear in mind it's the kids who grew up as geeks watching scifi who turned into the engineers who have ended up building a lot of this stuff, be it hardware, software or the convergence between the two
[01:54] <neuro> so maybe some proto-engineer watched wild palms and thought "... hey!"
[01:55] <ali1234> also they have a dig at scientology before it was cool to do that
[01:55] <neuro> ha
[01:55] <neuro> remember scientology has been around since the late 50s :)
[01:56] <ali1234> of course, but it wasn't really on the radar back in 1993
[01:56] <neuro> you'd be surprised
[01:56] <ali1234> most people back then probably wouldn't even have got the reference
[01:56] <neuro> just that there wasn't the same penetration of internet access to propogate it
[01:56] <neuro> well in the states, maybe
[01:56] <neuro> i've been reading a lot about it lately
[01:57] <neuro> some of the shenanigans that go on, if they can be proved, are pretty heinous
[02:03] <neuro> sorry, got sucked into this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVkVWnvmjl0
[02:03] <neuro> i love these guys
[02:06] <ali1234> the lighting in that game is amazing
[02:07] <neuro> looking straight into the sun kinda sucks at times
[02:07] <neuro> they've fixed that in battlefield 4 apparently
[02:07] <neuro> i'm pretty good with the Beretta, just not quite as good as that guy :)
[02:08] <ali1234> why is there a wilhelm scream at 2:11? is that actually in the game??
[02:08] <neuro> no :)
[02:08] <neuro> he added the KLONK followed by the wilhelm
[02:08] <neuro> the rest of the audio is as-is
[02:08] <neuro> sounds amazing in surround
[02:12] <ali1234> yea i don't even understand how anyone knows what is going on in this game... it's just like a massive pileup of carnage
[02:12] <neuro> you catch on quickly :)
[02:13] <neuro> there are a lot of audio and visual cues to help you out
[02:13] <ali1234> "shoot guys with orange writing on them"
[02:13] <neuro> well most of the game modes are objective based, so if that's all you did, you'd suck
[02:14] <ali1234> it's really hard to tell from these videos
[02:14] <neuro> capture/defend this area, destroy/defend that crate, CTF, etc etc
[02:14] <neuro> ravic is playing Conquest in all of those clips
[02:15] <neuro> if you look at the map at bottom left, there are red and blue boxes, some of which are flashing
[02:15] <neuro> basically these are flag points on the map you need to capture
[02:15] <neuro> A, B, C, etc
[02:15] <neuro> numbers vary from map to map depending on size etc
[02:16] <neuro> if you stay within the flag area, you can capture it
[02:16] <neuro> if there are more of their guys in the area than yours, you can't capture it
[02:16] <neuro> both teams have 'tickets', default usually about 100-200
[02:16] <neuro> every time a player dies and respawns, that eats a ticket
[02:17] <neuro> if a team holds >50% of the flags, then the opposing team's tickets start decreasing at about 1 every 2 seconds
[02:17] <neuro> first team to lose all their tickets, loses
[02:17] <neuro> sounds complicated, but you pick it up very very quickly
[02:18] <neuro> if one of those boxes down at bottom left is flashing, someone is capturing it, reversing it from red (opfor) to blue (your team) or vice versa
[02:18] <neuro> oh and if you hold a flag, you can spawn at it, rather than at your deployment at the edge of the map
[02:19] <neuro> and optionally, if you are in a squad (of up to 4), and at least one of them is alive and on the ground or in a vehicle with a spare seat, you can spawn on them too
[02:20] <neuro> i've been playing this since release in oct 2011 (and battlefield bad company 2 and battlefield 1943 before it), so i'm used to it now :)
[02:23] <neuro> oh, this *does* work if you're not signed in ... http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/evilneuro/stats/115000054/xbox/
[02:23] <neuro> 'tis I
[07:18] <ubcqtml> /join #yrs
[07:18] <ubcqtml> sorry
[09:05] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[09:07] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[12:11] <popey> A'noon
[12:23] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[12:24] <popey> yo
[12:25] <bigcalm> Howdy popey
[12:25] <bigcalm> popey: which country are you in today?
[12:41] <popey> bigcalm: home
[12:58] <neuro> i wonder if ...
[12:58]  * neuro is listening to "Canyon Battle" by M83, Anthony Gonzalez, Joseph Trapanese, from the album Oblivion. 256kbps AAC 
[12:58] <neuro> huh
[13:08] <neuro> ouch, edge now nearly 11m off the pace :(
[13:10] <neuro> they basically need to repeat some of the biggest crowdfunding campaigns
[13:10] <neuro> every day
[15:29] <penguin42> Gah, Scottish power don't seem to know how to do live updates; all their systems for doing meter entry seem to be down - both web and phone
[15:52] <penguin42> anyone used coccinelle?
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: what is it?
[16:07] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: It's a 'semantic patch' program - you give it a description of some C and it generates a patch to change it; e.g. if you added an extra parameter to every use of foo() you could get it to go through your code and add it, or search for a particular common type of mistake
[16:15] <penguin42> except I can't get it to take the really neat use one of the developers has just posted; it finds errors of the form           a = b,   c=d;    where the , should be a ;
[18:09] <markie-> Wow everything is exactly how i left it
[20:09] <popey> Evening all
[20:11] <AlanBell> hi popey
[20:18] <penguin42> hey Popey
[20:18] <daftykins> hey all \o
[20:27]  * penguin42 had better take this music player off loop - it's been doing The Eagles for a few hours
[20:41] <AlanBell> you can check out any time you like but you can never leave
[20:42] <penguin42> indeed
[21:21] <Azelphur> Is anyone aware of a decent, p2p encrypted chat network?
[21:22] <ali1234> bitmessage
[21:22] <Azelphur> interesting
[21:30] <Azelphur> ali1234: bitmessage seems more like an email deal
[21:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: torchat looks pretty cool :)
[21:45] <moreati> Azelphur: re you looking for IRC style chat rooms or IM one to one style?
[21:46] <Azelphur> moreati: IM, IRC would be cool too though
[21:46] <moreati> for the later there's OTR
[21:46] <Azelphur> moreati: OTR is a bit naf, as it still lets the service owner know who you are talking to, when, and for how long
[21:46] <moreati> supported by Pidgin I believe
[21:46] <moreati> ah, yes
[21:47] <moreati> would jabber over SSL have the same weakness? Would that differ if both parties were on the same/different servers?
[21:47] <Azelphur> moreati: yea, it would have the same weakness
[21:47] <moreati> Eve could tell when you were connected certainly
[21:48] <Azelphur> I've found a few things I plan on using regularly after seeing them
[21:48] <Azelphur> Bitmessage seems to be a very good secure email alternative, TorChat2 looks like it'll be a pidgin plugin really soon which will be sweet
[21:48] <Azelphur> so that gets you email & IM
[21:48] <moreati> ah, statistical analysis of packet times would show who was chatting with who
[21:49] <shauno> jabber over ssl still requires that you trust the service provider
[21:49] <Azelphur> ^
[21:50] <MattJ> Jabber \o/
[21:50] <Seeker`> Jabber \o/
[21:50] <Azelphur> MattJ: jabber is getting downvoted in this conversation :P
[21:50] <Azelphur> (sorry!) :P
[21:51] <MattJ> Jabber/XMPP can be used via Tor, it can be completely anonymous...
[21:51] <Azelphur> MattJ: even if you use it via tor, that doesn't stop the service provider from knowing who is talking to who
[21:52] <shauno> well, that A is talking to B.  the upshot of that method is the service provider may have no idea or A or B are
[21:53] <MattJ> Indeed
[21:53] <MattJ> Though you can get quite far sometimes
[21:53] <MattJ> But at that point you run your own servers...
[21:53] <Azelphur> yea
[21:53] <MattJ> which can also communicate over tor :)
[21:54] <MattJ> ( https://blog.thijsalkema.de/blog/2013/06/11/xmpp-federation-over-tor-hidden-services/ - by an Adium dev actually)
[21:56] <Azelphur> nice
[21:56] <Azelphur> that's pretty sweet
[21:56] <Azelphur> are there any public servers that implement that?
[21:56] <MattJ> None that I know of, yet
[21:56] <MattJ> I know several that are already accessible as hidden services
[21:58] <Azelphur> cool
[21:58] <Azelphur> looks interesting :)
[22:00] <shauno> I still find freenet interesting, but it won't (and can't) do realtime
[22:02] <shauno> on the topic of tinfoil, I can't seem to find any vps in Iceland that aren't either unrealistically expensive, or owned by non-icelandic parent companies
[22:10] <ali1234> what's the difference between email and instant messaging?
[22:12] <shauno> mostly the client these days.  but email doesn't present any status
[22:12] <shauno> I don't know if you're online, busy, etc.  I can't be certain an email has actually been delivered yet, let alone seen
[22:14] <ali1234> well, such things are quite hard to do in an anonymous, encrypted way
[22:15] <shauno> why?
[22:16] <shauno> I mean, if you take the linked example - jabber as a hidden service over tor.  each user maintains a connection to the jabber server.  all status ordinarily available over jabber still applies
[22:16] <penguin42> well you could encrypt the responses based on public key and only give people you know an online status
[22:22] <ali1234> because encryption isn't really enough
[22:22] <penguin42> why?
[22:26] <daftykins> got a dead disk in a simple RAID array to sort this week
[22:26] <daftykins> got the report at midnight Friday night that one's popped its' clogs ^_^
[22:26] <penguin42> daftykins: Now the question is will the spare last until you get the new one in?
[22:27] <daftykins> to be honest the storage isn't even used actively now, so it wouldn't even matter if it totally failed
[22:27] <daftykins> warranty's gone too though
[22:27] <penguin42> oh that's ok, in that case it won't fail - only critical things fail viciously
[22:27] <daftykins> and it's a 1.5TB disk which it seems aren't even available anymore :>
[22:27] <daftykins> hahaha
[22:28] <daftykins> yep
[22:28] <daftykins> too true
[22:30] <ali1234> penguin42: because as mentioned, encryption doesn't hide who is talking to who
[22:31] <daftykins> i wonder if, since the forum fiasco, they'll actually honour my request to have my account deleted this time
[22:31] <daftykins> i was told they refuse to delete accounts even if you ask ¬_¬
[22:32] <shauno> hence the addition of tor; you have no idea who 'who' is
[22:32] <penguin42> ali1234: Oh I see, the problem though is that the only way of stopping spam is to be able to know who you're talking to
[22:32] <ali1234> bitmessage uses proof of work to prevent spam
[22:33]  * penguin42 looks
[22:35] <penguin42> ali1234: Hmm that's quite neat
[22:36] <ali1234> tor doesn't provide as much security as most people think. if your connection is monitored, and the chat server connection is monitored, it doesn't really matter what path the packets take in between
[22:36] <ali1234> bitmessage + tor is probably quite effective though
[22:37] <ali1234> since there's no server and everything is broadcast
[22:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: what's your opinion on torchat?
[22:42] <ali1234> never looked at it
[22:42] <Azelphur> I'm thinking that might be good
[22:42] <Azelphur> torchat2 looks particularly cool
[22:42] <Azelphur> I'm on bitmessage now anyway, someone say hello so I can see how it works :) BM-2D94ExvKBzVRiCj81BmXrjC4rhep81jY9g
[22:46] <ali1234> not sure if my client still works
[22:48] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://pastebin.com/PpF5PkTB I did this :)
[22:48] <ali1234> i'm using bashrc's ppa
[22:48] <ali1234> it has indicators
[22:48] <ali1234> oh there we go, it connected
[22:48] <Azelphur> cool
[22:49] <ali1234> tbh i would prefer a command line client like bitcoind
[22:50] <popey> there's an indicator with the python one from github
[22:50] <ali1234> the new version is supposed to support "chans" whatever that means
[22:50] <ali1234> oh cool, maybe he got the patch upstream?
[22:50] <popey> guess so
[22:50] <popey> Azelphur: sent you a test message
[22:50] <Azelphur> cool :)
[22:50] <Azelphur> how long do they typically take to arrive?
[22:51]  * popey shrugs
[22:51] <popey> mine looks like its processing other messages
[22:51] <Azelphur> yea, I'll probably leave mine open 24/7 to help out with processing.
[22:51] <ali1234> a couple of minutes usually
[22:51] <ali1234> the first one can take longer due to ... stuff
[22:51] <Azelphur> stuff \o/
[22:52] <popey> so does it make sense for you to have one identity for establishing contact, publicly known?
[22:52] <popey> and then move to other addresses per person / task?
[22:52] <Azelphur> popey: I think so, since nobody can tell who mail is addressed to.
[22:53] <popey> is it safe to use the first message to "switch channel" to another address mentioned in the reply?
[22:53] <Azelphur> I don't see why not
[22:53] <ali1234> it can be any less safe than just carrying on with the original channel
[22:53] <ali1234> can't*
[22:53] <Azelphur> nobody can do anything without the private keys, I think
[22:55] <Azelphur> bitmessage needs a message received sound, that'd be handy :)
[23:00] <popey> Azelphur: get it yet?
[23:00] <Azelphur> nope :<
[23:00] <daftykins> most secure messaging EVAR
[23:00] <daftykins> nobody knows you did it! not even you
[23:00] <daftykins> ;)
[23:00] <Azelphur> haha
[23:00] <popey> ☻
[23:01] <Azelphur> I have got 10 connections and I'm processing messages like mad
[23:01] <ali1234> it's like bitcoin - you have to catch up
[23:01] <Azelphur> ah
[23:01] <ali1234> also i suspect it got a bit more popular in the past few days
[23:02] <popey> will leave it running overnight i think
[23:02] <ali1234> so first "real" test of the network if you like
[23:02] <Azelphur> ali1234: there's no way to tell when you're caught up it seems though, hehe
[23:02] <popey> yellow blob turns green?
[23:02] <Azelphur> popey: yellow blob is it whining about wanting a port forwarded
[23:02] <popey> ah
[23:04] <ali1234> looks like mine has crashed
[23:08] <popey> mine has stopped processing
[23:08] <ali1234> oh, it finally got azelphur's pubkey
[23:08] <popey> 4713 person to person messages, 505 broadcast messages
[23:08] <Azelphur> ali1234: oh? how'd you know?
[23:09] <ali1234> because it says on the debug log
[23:09] <Azelphur> ah :)
[23:10] <popey> "Message sent: waiting on acknowledgement"
[23:12] <Azelphur> I still got nothin ;)
[23:16] <popey> great tool ☻
[23:17] <penguin42> popey: It's waiting for the NSA to read it first
[23:17] <Azelphur> indeed :P
[23:53] <ali1234> yeah it seems to be crashing while trying to solve the proof of work when sending the message
[23:53] <ali1234> HEAD is probably broken
[23:54] <Azelphur> ali1234: haha, joining #bitmessage too I see :)
[23:54] <Azelphur> I just joined myself to ask about this