[00:16] <Azelphur> Anyone interested in trying out torchat too? It's a pidgin plugin :)
[00:16] <Azelphur> (or a standalone app)
[00:16] <Azelphur> and it's in apt, so you can just apt-get install torchat && torchat
[00:19] <popey> Azelphur: do you need tor setup though?
[00:19] <Azelphur> popey: yea, but it's all default, I think apt-get install torchat just does it all for you.
[00:19] <popey> ah
[00:19] <popey> ok, I'm in it
[00:20] <Azelphur> got your address?
[00:20] <popey> pm'ed
[00:37] <popey> Azelphur: does torchat show me offline now?
[00:37] <Azelphur> yes
[05:04] <ali1234> awesome... someone made a software dab receiver for my rtl-sdr
[05:04] <ali1234> and it actually works!
[05:23] <shauno> oh?
[05:33] <ali1234> http://www.sdr-j.tk/index.html
[05:40] <shauno> interesting .. I'll have to give that a shot in the morning
[05:41] <shauno> I'd been looking for ways to decode broadcast TV too.  because my little el-cheapo sdr can do everything but the function that's printed on it
[05:42] <shauno> not that I bought it for the function printed on it, but I got to thinking
[08:44] <Neoti_Desktop> hi people. am wondering how traffic CCTV is connected back  the central monitoring station. i would like to know if possible makes and /or models of equitment used, IE if they use GSM what device are they using, is it an IPSEC or GRE Tunnel back to the monitoring office etc...
[08:57] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Information_Act_2000 ?
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: they probably use cables, so interference is much harder
[09:01] <isleofmandan> Morning. I don't suppose anyone here has the Dell XPS 13 DE with the 'new' AR9462 wifi card in and Ubuntu 13.04? Trying to decide if the hassle of upgrading from stock 12.04 will fix my wifi dropouts...
[09:02] <MartijnVdS> isleofmandan: there are AR9xxx fixes in 3.11, which is not yet finished, but will be in 13.10
[09:02] <Neoti_Desktop> im just intrested. as i have been asked to set up 2 camras at a remote location and all there is, is a 3G signal on vodafone, and was thinking of using some kind of 3G router??? connect the cams to it, use something like PPTP, GRE, or IPSEC to connect back to the remote location etc ????
[09:03] <isleofmandan> MartijnVdS: Thanks. I'll grin and bear 12.04 a bit longer then :/
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: 3G signals are easily blocked/overloaded to make the camera image unreliable. 3G is also expensive.
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: is there nothing visible within a few miles with better connectivity?
[09:03] <Neoti_Desktop> nope its all wooded else i would have used something like ubiquity devices... :(
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: because you can set up a (most likely 5GHz) private wifi network (with directional antennas, so not everyone can pick it up)
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: I use a setup like that on a wooded caravan park, works great
[09:04] <dwatkins> Neoti_Desktop: does it need to be viewed live, or can it be simply recorded locally and collected regularly?
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> all you need is a line of sight
[09:04] <Neoti_Desktop> they want to stream and record
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> I don't think 3G is ever going to be reliable enough
[09:06] <Neoti_Desktop> i have choosen the cams there the grandstream GXV3672_HD . i chose them become of the MJPEG stuff, and are compatibil with Zoneminder
[09:07] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: http://www.ses-broadband.com/10334323/en :P
[09:08] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[09:08] <MattJ100> Morning brobostigon
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: But, seriously: 3G might work, but you'll burn through megabytes and have possible reliability issues
[09:08] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS and MattJ100
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: a 5GHz line-of-sight wifi setup with directional antennas will probably be better
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Desktop: digging a trench even better (power has to get there too somehow, hmm.. powerline ethernet adapters?)
[09:13] <SuperMatt> morning all
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> \o SuperMatt
[09:32] <SuperMatt> hullo
[09:41] <brobostigon> ok, question, i just pushed some changes from my nexus7 yesterday to my github, now when on my normal machine and i try and git pull it complains, any ideas as to why ?
[09:41] <Neoti_Desktop> the remote site has solar panels and is running a 12v 2.5kw system
[09:42] <Neoti_Desktop> with batteries i might add...
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: what's the error?
[09:51] <brobostigon> git pull
[09:51] <brobostigon> There is no tracking information for the current branch.
[09:51] <brobostigon> Please specify which branch you want to merge with.
[09:52] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:53] <brobostigon> git pull
[09:53] <brobostigon> Updating 8daa2c3..1fa173d
[09:53] <brobostigon> error: unable to unlink old 'BareSaabv2/BareSaabv2-due/BareSaabv2due/BareSaabv2due.ino' (Permission denied)
[09:54] <bigcalm> Tut
[09:54] <brobostigon> and it isnt old as it claims, i updated it about 10 mins ago.
[09:54] <MartijnVdS> ah! permission denied
[09:54] <MartijnVdS> that would explain why it fails :)
[09:55] <brobostigon> ok, how do i fix this?
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> did you chmod things?
[09:55] <brobostigon> no
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> what did you check out, did you do it on Ubuntu?
[09:56] <brobostigon> as i said, i made a few changes to that file on my nexus7 yesterday and submitted them, then this morning, i wanted those changes on my main machine, and it throws that wobbler.
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> so you run git on a n7?
[09:56] <brobostigon> i am using debian.
[09:56] <brobostigon> yes.
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> git runs on android now?
[09:57] <brobostigon> yes.
[09:57] <MartijnVdS> I know permissions on android can be strange sometimes.. but I'm not sure of the details
[09:57] <brobostigon> hmmm, ok. that might explain it then.
[09:57] <MartijnVdS> especially if you use multiple apps on one file
[09:58] <brobostigon> one single app, one one single file,
[10:00] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, is there a way to normalise it again? and then ditch the nexus7 to do changes.
[10:19] <popey> morning
[10:20] <bigcalm> Hola
[10:48] <dvrr> Hiiiiiiii
[10:49] <^2fC> hellloooo :-)
[10:52] <dvrr> How give  database connection in tomcat server for multipul  database instances
[10:53] <dvrr> MooDoo:helloooo
[13:09]  * penguin42 is in one of those 'perhaps I should change telco providers' mood evenly balanced with the 'it's working don't touch it'
[15:43] <MartijnVdS> http://haxit.blogspot.nl/2013/08/hacking-transcend-wifi-sd-cards.html
[15:48] <penguin42> nice; this is an SD card running Linux?
[15:48] <MartijnVdS> yeah, with an arm5 core in there
[15:48] <MartijnVdS> so you can do SD, wifi and ARM on something the size of an SD card now
[15:49] <moreati> there are cards linke that, which take a microsd card for the storage
[15:49] <moreati> http://www.pqigroup.com/prod_in.aspx?mnuid=1286&modid=138&prodid=426
[15:52] <penguin42> I'm tempted by one of those Trascend ones now - pity he hasn't posted the cpuinfo/free info
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: you can probably ask him :)
[16:00] <bigcalm> moreati: good to see that you're still alive. The LUG misses you!
[16:01] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Transcend seem to have the code on: http://uk.transcend-info.com/Support/DLCenter/index.asp?#Detail
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> oh it's GPL of course, the busybox people would sue them otherwise ;)
[16:07] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hey don't knock it, Transcend seem to have full kernel and busybox source there
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> does it contain everything needed to build valid replacement kernels/busyboxes?
[16:08] <MartijnVdS> like build scripts, etc.
[16:11] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: That I can't tell without trying it, seems to be a KA2000 chipset
[16:11] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: googling that leads to Ford 8-)
[16:11] <penguin42> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tokyohackerspace/D-675xo0Y_s
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> "Pop the back off the card and
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> there's a TTL level serial port."
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> WANT
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> oh they,re a bit on the expensive side
[16:13] <penguin42> yeh the transcends are about 40gbp - which is a bit pricey for the spec, but hey it is tiny
[16:15]  * popey has 13 issues of 2600 from 1999-2002.. pondering ebaying them.. not likely to get much am I?
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> from back when you were a l33t h4x0r?
[16:17] <mgdm> on that note, go to a YouTube video, and type '1337' (no quotes and not in the search box), and look at the comments
[16:17] <mgdm> (for those who've not heard that already)
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> or 1980
[16:18] <mgdm> hehe, nice
[16:20]  * penguin42 had some computer mags from late 70s that my dad had bought and I was clearing out, I was giving them to people in the office who were born in that month
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> heh
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> we have a few 1980s issues of computer magazines in the office
[16:20] <mgdm> if you find a Jan 1983 one... :-)
[16:20]  * popey rummages ebay to find other people selling similar
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> the ads are the greatest
[16:21] <popey> also, I am selling my last joggler
[16:21] <mgdm> i forgot abut my joggler, and found it the other day
[16:21] <mgdm> going to make it do Android shortly
[16:21] <mgdm> (don't suppose they run Ubuntu Touch, eh? :)
[16:21] <penguin42> mgdm: Let me guess, one of hte ones bought on the #50 deal from a couple of years ago?
[16:22] <mgdm> penguin42: indeed
[16:22] <mgdm> ~4 years ago, I think
[16:23] <penguin42> hehe yes
[16:23] <penguin42> I didn't buy one because I thought I'd probably do the same
[16:24] <mgdm> I got it, then moved to a different city
[16:24] <mgdm> or indeed, a city
[16:26] <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281149901788?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
[16:26] <popey> *cough*
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> "1 person is viewing this item per hour"
[16:27] <popey> nice job if you can get it
[16:27] <popey> also selling a yubikey! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281149907420?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> pre-pwned? :)
[16:27] <popey> nope
[16:28] <popey> clean as a whistle, never inserted into anything
[16:28] <popey> missus
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> already have one (from $boss)
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> popey: but.. good idea
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> popey: I need to clean out my cupboard :)
[16:31] <popey> yeah, thats what triggered it, clearing out stuff
[16:34] <ali1234> i also need to get rid of a lot of junk
[16:34] <popey> i should get rid of my old laptops too
[16:35] <Azelphur> ali1234: my ASICs are in the UK :o
[16:35] <ali1234> from who did you buy them?
[16:35] <Azelphur> BFL, last june preorders.
[16:36] <Azelphur> 180GH/sec ;)
[16:41] <penguin42> any Virgin Media broadband users?
[16:41]  * penguin42 is starting to consider moving to them
[16:41] <mgdm> I'm on a VM connection just now, it's not mine though. The 'superhub' thing seems to drop the wifi for about 10 seconds every now and again
[16:41] <penguin42> the loss of a static-ip would be a pain, but my ADSL has dropped in speed a bit and I'll never get it
[16:41] <ali1234> on VM you practically have a static IP
[16:42] <ali1234> when i used them it didn't change in 2 years
[16:42] <ali1234> with cable, you get the speed they actually advertise, instead of 20-50%
[16:43] <ali1234> also "drops every 10 minutes" describes every wifi connection i have ever used
[16:43] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh the speed is what attracts me; I'm getting about 7.5Mbps/950kbps on ADSL2 (was 10-11Mbps/1Mbps) - VM's 30Mbps tier is only about 20% more
[16:43] <shauno> "practically static" works well here - 28 day dhcp leases  lol
[16:44] <mgdm> my wifi at home (WRT54GS running OpenWRT) is solid as a rock
[16:44] <penguin42> yeh but practically static doesn't feel enough for making peepholes in my mailserver
[16:44]  * penguin42 isn't particularly worried about the wifi stability, I'm happy to use separate wifi boxes for that
[16:44] <shauno> it hasn't been an issue here .. if I'm disconnected for more than 28 days, I tend to know about
[16:45]  * penguin42 is in an annoying blackspot for BT infinity - just these two postcodes
[16:46] <ali1234> oh, and try to avoid the superhub
[16:46] <penguin42> ali1234: What's a superhub and what choices would I have?
[16:46] <ali1234> try to get the engineer to give you a standalone modem
[16:46] <ali1234> i don't know if they still do them
[16:46] <ali1234> the superhub is a huge piece of crap that does everything badly, like the bt superhub
[16:46] <ali1234> or homehub or whatever its called
[16:47]  * penguin42 used to be on cable ~10 years ago but switched to DSL when the company I worked for started giving it out and hadn't changed back, but 3x the speed is tempting
[16:50]  * penguin42 wonders if they'll be able to reuse the same cabling and if I'll have to wire it downstairs again
[17:11] <daftykins> phone line vs. coax? :)
[17:21] <penguin42> daftykins: No! I mean whether they can reuse the coax installation from 10 years ago when I previously had cable
[17:26] <daftykins> oh so you might go *back* to cable?
[17:26] <penguin42> nod
[17:26] <shauno> where we're going, we don't need line rental
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> Can you get cable internet without cable TV in the UK?
[17:27] <penguin42> daftykins: I can't get Infinity
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> because you can't here..
[17:27] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yes
[17:27] <shauno> here, you can, but they pretend you can't.  you have to order it over the phone (so they can try to upsell) instead of online
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah you can get "business" cable here, which is more expensive
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> Also, you still get analog TV channels even if you get a the digital package..
[17:28] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: For £22.50/month I can apparently get 30Mbps/2Mbps broadband only
[17:29] <daftykins> i always signed up for virgin media way back when without TV services with no issue
[17:29] <daftykins> back when things were simple with no rubbish routers :<
[17:29] <penguin42> ali1234: I don't see a way not to get the superhub
[17:30] <shauno> I've learnt to love this trash router UPC gave me.  you can confuse it into giving you multiple IP addresses :)
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: 44/month @ 150mbit/s is the cheapest cable/internet-only for me, or 49 with a static IP but max 60 mbit/s
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> And the "Fibre is bad" propaganda on their website.. LIES
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> 100/100 > 150/4
[17:31] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I can go upto 120mbps, that's 35/month
[17:31] <penguin42> what arguments do they have for fibre is bad?  It's GPON over there isn't it?
[17:32] <popey> hm. just dug out a digi box which we got when we first setup virgin cable, and plugged it in, getting complaints it's not registered
[17:32] <popey> engineer coming tuesday
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: They say their network is just as future-proof, and "measured speed" is higher on their network
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: which it isn't
[17:35] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Thing is I don't really like the cable company, but once something like a speed drops on the DSL there's very little chance of getting it to go faster again
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah, I know the problem - I waited for years to get fibre :)
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> Working for your ISP has a downside if you can only get DSL ;)
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: If you want to meet the brewing brothers, they'll be in town this week: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=510144532401880&set=a.451423728273961.1073741825.417406958342305&type=1&theater :)
[17:44] <daftykins> :o
[17:45] <AlanBell> interesting!
[17:45] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Will he remember the meeting afterwards?
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: if you take a picture with him, sure ;)
[17:46] <daftykins> this remote desktop software they just referred to on LAS seems interesting - http://guac-dev.org/
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: what's the server like? or is it just a client?
[17:47] <daftykins> not tried yet
[17:47] <daftykins> read the page :D
[17:47] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: are they doing all the days?
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I don't know
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: @vandestreekbier does though ;)
[17:49] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: OK so it sounds like it's another one using java to do the screen scraping
[18:19] <AlanBell> penguin42: nope
[18:19] <AlanBell> it is using rdp or vnc to screen scrape
[18:19] <AlanBell> then re-serving that to a browser client
[18:20] <AlanBell> so on the server you configure the VNC or RDP connections to initiate
[18:20] <AlanBell> looks quite cool, but not quite as general purpose as it first sounds
[18:24] <ali1234> VNC based? so in other words it's garbage?
[18:27] <penguin42> AlanBell: Are you sure - it talks about a java module that's served to the client
[18:27] <AlanBell> yeah, that is the viewer
[18:28] <AlanBell> erm, maybe it isn't
[18:28] <penguin42> AlanBell: ? I thought the point was the viewer was HTML5
[18:29] <AlanBell> javascript, not java
[18:29] <ali1234> http://guac-dev.org/doc/images/guac-arch.png
[18:29] <ali1234> ^ everything you need to know
[18:30] <penguin42> AlanBell: http://guac-dev.org/doc/gug/installing-guacamole.html#compiling-guacamole-client  ah I think the Java is a tomcat thingy on the server side that sides the client
[18:31] <AlanBell> yup
[18:31] <penguin42> ali1234: No
[18:31] <penguin42> ali1234: That doesn't really give enough detail
[18:32] <AlanBell> works for me :)
[18:32] <ali1234> what more detail do you need?
[18:32] <penguin42> ali1234: It's not clear to me whether you can share and view from each of the rdp/vnc/others and web interface
[18:33] <ali1234> what do you mean "each"
[18:34] <penguin42> ali1234: It's not clear from that diagram if it can use any of those protocols for sharing and/or any of those protocols for viewing
[18:34] <ali1234> it can't
[18:35] <penguin42> ali1234: In that case I stand by my case that that diagram doesn't contain enough detail
[18:35] <ali1234> what?
[18:35] <ali1234> i still have no idea what you are talking about
[18:35] <penguin42> shrug
[18:35] <ali1234> what is the difference between "sharing" and "viewing" by the way
[18:36] <penguin42> ali1234: whether I can make my desktop visible to others or whether I can see others desktops
[18:36] <ali1234> using VNC?
[18:36] <ali1234> yes, of course you can. that's what VNC does
[18:36] <penguin42> ali1234: Using guacamole in between
[18:37] <penguin42> I know I can with plain vnc, I don't know what guacamole is bringing to the mix from that diagram
[18:37] <ali1234> well suppose you have a VNC server (at the bottom)
[18:37] <ali1234> and a HTML5 browser (at the top)
[18:37] <ali1234> guacamole allows you to connect them together
[18:37] <penguin42> ali1234: Well you're supposing a lot!
[18:38] <ali1234> are you looking at the same diagram i am looking at?
[18:38] <penguin42> ali1234: guac-arch
[18:38] <penguin42> ali1234: You're right that is one reading of it
[18:39] <ali1234> see at the bottom where it says "RDP VNC Other" and underneath that it says "remote desktops"
[18:39] <ali1234> those are the remote desktops
[18:39] <penguin42> yeh
[18:39] <ali1234> at the top there is "HTML5 web browser"
[18:39]  * penguin42 sees that as well
[18:39] <ali1234> and then there's guacamole in the middle with arrows connecting them together
[18:39] <ali1234> i don't see what other ways you can interpret this
[18:40] <penguin42> ali1234: OK, does it let me use an RDP client to connect to the guacamole server to view a VNC servers output?
[18:40] <ali1234> no. see where the top arrow is labelled "guacamole protocol" not "RDP protocol"
[18:40] <penguin42> ali1234: Well sure but that's the arrow connected to the web browser, it doesn't tell you whether you can connect other viewers on the ports on the bottom (they are two way arrows)
[18:41] <ali1234> well the diagram also doesn't contain any dinosaurs
[18:41] <ali1234> but i am pretty sure dinosaurs are not involved
[18:41] <penguin42> shrug
[18:41] <ali1234> yes, you can connect other viewers to the stuff on the bottom. you can connect a vnc client to the vnc server for example
[18:41] <penguin42> ali1234: It seems a bit of a dumb design if it's got that 1 way architecture
[18:42] <ali1234> the arrows are two way because the data goes in both directions
[18:42] <ali1234> display pixels go one way, user input goes the other way
[18:43]  * penguin42 would have thought it would make more sense to make the viewer side cope with multiple protocols as well then you could let any talk to any
[18:43] <ali1234> what would be the point?
[18:43] <ali1234> the entire point of it is that you don't need any client at all
[18:44] <ali1234> of course it's not really any different to the old vnc system that served up a java client on a http server
[18:45] <ali1234> except this time it is written in javascript and most of the logic is server side
[18:46] <penguin42> ali1234: yeh you're right not having any client is nice, it does need gluing together to be more what I expect from the type of sharing systems people use for conferencing though - where you can hand off from one user to another
[18:46] <ali1234> i don't understand what conferencing has to do with it?
[18:47] <penguin42> ali1234: I've used systems for teleconfering where people can share their desktop to do a presentation, and they're normally a centralised server system for that
[18:48] <penguin42> teleconferencing
[18:48] <ali1234> so under this model everyone would just open their browser and go to the server
[18:48] <ali1234> and then they would see your desktop
[18:48] <penguin42> ali1234: Not quite
[18:48] <ali1234> yes, that's literally all they would have to do
[18:49] <penguin42> ali1234: In the nicest systems you can hand off so that you can switch from viewing one presenters desktop to the next - so the interface people see isn't just necessarily a viewers interface
[18:49] <ali1234> your computer is running VNC or RDP. guacd connects to it, then broadcasts the display to each HTML5 client
[18:49] <ali1234> so all that is required to support that is a panel that lets you change what RDP server guacd connects to
[18:49] <ali1234> which it probably already has
[18:50] <penguin42> it seems very broken way to do it
[18:50] <penguin42> making it have to connect into the client like that just won't work for most across firewalls/nating - you'd think you'd want the client to be able to proxy that
[18:50] <ali1234> it doesn't connect in to the client
[18:51] <ali1234> it's a web server
[18:51] <ali1234> the client connects to it
[18:51] <penguin42>  'ali1234: your computer is running VNC or RDP. guacd connects to it,'
[18:51] <ali1234> yes
[18:51] <penguin42> ali1234: That is what I'm saying is broken
[18:51] <ali1234> your computer is running VNC server, exporting it's remote desktop
[18:51] <ali1234> guacd connects to the VNC server as a VNC client and reads the display
[18:51] <penguin42> yeh, that's broken
[18:51] <ali1234> then converts it to a stream of javascript nonsense
[18:52] <ali1234> then the browser connects to the web server and reads that, and displays it
[18:52] <penguin42> yes yes, that's broken
[18:52] <ali1234> perhaps, but that is the what they set out to create
[18:53] <ali1234> it doesn't have any more firewall issues than just using VNC does
[18:53] <penguin42> ali1234: And hence doesn't really solve any problems
[18:53] <ali1234> i agree
[18:54] <ali1234> like i said, it's not any different to the old VNC java client, except that now it is written in HTML5
[18:54] <penguin42> ali1234: Now if the JS client they served to you had a way to tunnel the VNC/RDP/whatever back then it's almost useful
[18:54] <ali1234> tunnel it back to where?
[18:54] <penguin42> ali1234: Tunnel it from your vncserver to the guacd so that the guacd didn't have to connect in via your firewall
[18:56] <penguin42> ali1234: Then it would let arbitrary users of different OSs share screens with each other whatever firewall/NATing they had
[18:56] <ali1234> well firstly guacd doesn't... VNC can be set up so that the server connects out
[18:56] <penguin42> really? I've never seen VNC server setup for that
[18:56] <ali1234> so what you want is an entire remote desktop client and server written entirely in HTML5?
[18:57] <penguin42> ali1234: Well yes it would be ideal if you could have the destop server delivered to you via HTML as well; but I'm happy if it just proxied from an existing local vncserver or rdpserver
[18:58] <ali1234> or i suppose really what you want is a way to set up a TCP tunnel between two web browsers, with a connection service that is accessed using HTML5
[18:58] <penguin42> ali1234: I want to be able to go to a website and share my desktop with an arbitrary selection of [verifiiable] people
[18:58] <ali1234> that would be a pretty neat general purpose thing to have
[18:59] <penguin42> ali1234: can js listen on a local socket?
[18:59] <ali1234> i think it can with HTML5
[18:59] <ali1234> websocket?
[18:59] <ali1234> maybe it can only connect out
[18:59] <penguin42> I'd assume it can make a localhost connection - with suitable security - so I guess it could try connecting to your local vncserver although I'd hope that browsers generally stop it
[19:01] <ali1234> basically what you want is for guacd to also be written in HTML5
[19:01] <ali1234> but it is not
[19:02] <penguin42> ali1234: Not necessarily - I'm happy for it to be a centralised thing; but I want the way to connect to it to go through my browser
[19:02] <ali1234> right
[19:02] <ali1234> it is a proxy
[19:02] <penguin42> yeh
[19:02] <ali1234> it connects to the VNC server using guacd
[19:02] <ali1234> it connects to your browser using http
[19:02] <ali1234> (nominally)
[19:02] <ali1234> you want it to do both using http
[19:03] <penguin42> yep
[19:03] <ali1234> well, maybe one day
[19:03] <ali1234> websocket isn't suitable for this
[19:03] <ali1234> and web browsers are obviously really paranoid about what stuff they make available
[19:04] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm not desperate to use VNC server, but it does solve a problem, in that being able to use vncserver, rdp whatever means you can find a desktop sharing thing that already works
[19:06] <ali1234> that's not the problem they are trying to solve
[19:06] <ali1234> they are trying to solve the problem where you need to install a VNC client to access your computer
[19:07] <ali1234> where as with this you only need a HTML5 browser
[19:07] <penguin42> ali1234: But as you said given the old vncviewers that worked in browsers I'm not sure what they've really gained
[19:07] <ali1234> well the old VNC java client is pretty rubbish
[19:07] <penguin42> I guess being able to remote access the rdp as well is nice
[19:07] <ali1234> and of course it needs java
[19:08] <ali1234> yeah, RDP is much much better than VNC
[19:08] <ali1234> VNC is horrible anyway
[19:08] <penguin42> nod
[19:08] <penguin42> ali1234: I've never seen a linux rdp server though
[19:08] <ali1234> it's called X11
[19:08] <silner> Aren't they trying to avoid Oracle Java?
[19:09] <penguin42> ali1234: Well no, I really mean rdp
[19:09] <penguin42> ali1234: And something like spice protocol I guess would be to add to the list
[19:09] <ali1234> what does RDP do that X11 does not?
[19:09] <ali1234> i suppose reconnecting/multiple viewers
[19:10] <penguin42> ali1234: ANd file transfer, access to remote printers/etc
[19:10] <hamitron> does it do basic Direct3d now too?
[19:10] <ali1234> so if you RDP into a server and print a file, it comes out your local printer?
[19:11] <ali1234> that's pretty cool
[19:11] <penguin42> ali1234: Yes it can do that, it can also pass samba filesharing across the connection
[19:11] <ali1234> i would never have even guessed that would be available
[19:11] <penguin42> ali1234: So you can load from your local storage into the thing you're remotely using
[19:13] <ali1234> yeah i bet guac can't do any of that
[19:14] <penguin42> ali1234: Nod
[19:14] <ali1234> the idea though, i suspect, is to serve up some web desktop eventually, and do away with VNC, RDP etc
[19:15] <penguin42> yeh
[21:04] <malicoy> I'm trying to install ubuntu on my new computer but i keep getting a "Missing operating system" error when I boot. Help!?
[21:08] <ali1234> malicoy: start at the beginning and tell us what you did
[21:12] <malicoy> I downloaded ubuntu from their website then used unetbootin to put the OS onto my 1 terabyte external drive from my mac computer. i then plug the external drive into my new computer and boot from the usb and get the error.
[21:14] <ali1234> hmm ok
[21:15] <ali1234> what type of computer is the new computer?
[21:15] <ali1234> does it have windows or another OS pre-installed or is it totally blank?
[21:15] <malicoy> Its is a custom computer with no OS
[21:16] <ali1234> ok. what motherboard? and is it in UEFI or BIOS mode?
[21:17] <ali1234> i kind of suspect you've used the wrong install disc, htere's one for each
[21:18] <malicoy> The mother board is an ASRock 960GM-VGS3 FX
[21:18] <malicoy> BIOS mode
[21:19] <ali1234> if you downloaded the image with a mac it may have redirected you to download the UEFI version, because macs use that. but i'm not sure
[21:20] <ali1234> i don't know if unetbootin even supports UEFI to be honest
[21:20] <ali1234> precisely which ISO did you download?
[21:21] <shauno> did you format the disk using the mac, or was it already formatted?
[21:22] <malicoy> ubuntu from http://www.ubuntu.com/
[21:22] <shauno> worth being aware the mac will default to partitioning with non-hybrid gpt, so bios won't see a partition map
[21:23] <ali1234> there is an easier way to make a USB boot disc, if you don't mind wiping the whole USB disc, or if you have a spare flash drive >1GB
[21:23] <malicoy> i formatted it on the mac to fat32
[21:23] <ali1234> just dd the iso directly to the raw device
[21:23] <malicoy> dd?
[21:23] <ali1234> yes. just a raw copy
[21:23] <malicoy> what is dd?
[21:23] <ali1234> i think macs have dd right?
[21:24] <dwatkins> yeah, they do
[21:24] <ali1234> it's a shell command
[21:24] <dwatkins> you can even get a progress bar with 'pv'
[21:24] <shauno> that's where I went wrong doing the same; I had the partition formatted fat32, but the partition map itself as gpt so my PC couldn't see it
[21:24] <dwatkins> ...although that probably requires homebrew, so ignore me
[21:25] <ali1234> seems like shauno has the answer anyway ^
[21:26] <malicoy> shauno: how did you solve it?
[21:26] <shauno> if you format it on the mac, make sure to go into the options button that lets you pick; http://cl.ly/image/201y222h2X2h
[21:27] <malicoy> i think i can do that
[21:28] <shauno> I don't know if it's your problem, but the mac defaults to making gpt without mbr, which pc-bios won't like  (most systems try to do both gpt & mbr to avoid this)
[21:29] <malicoy> my disk utility doesnt have those options
[21:30] <shauno> it should if the mac is intel (the last 8 years or so)
[21:32] <dwatkins> wouldn't it be simpler to use unetbootin for the Mac, or am I missing something?
[21:32] <shauno> this is how I get to those options: http://cl.ly/image/270Y1r2l2R2Q
[21:32] <shauno> if it says 'master boot record' at the bottom like that example, then I'm totally wrong and you can ignore me :)
[21:32] <malicoy> yeah it does....
[21:33] <shauno> then I'll shut up  (just one I've tripped over trying to do exactly what you're doing)
[21:33] <malicoy> i did use unetbootin, i'm still getting the error
[21:40] <directhex> unetbootin doesn't work with uefi at all
[21:41] <directhex> if you usef unetbootin, don't expect gpt and efi to work
[21:43] <dwatkins> I tried this procedure, and it worked on one of my Macs but not on another: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFIBooting
[21:44] <ali1234> the goal isn't to boot on the mac though
[21:44] <ali1234> it is to boot on a BIOS motherboard
[21:44] <dwatkins> ah ok
[21:52] <ali1234> i'm kind of half tempted to install windows on a spare computer so i can play some gaemz
[21:52] <dwatkins> Half-life 2, Portal and Left4Dead 2 will run on Ubuntu ;)
[21:52] <ali1234> yeah but i hate FPS games
[21:53] <dwatkins> What sort of games do you like, ali1234?
[21:53] <ali1234> i like sand box games, empire building, and puzzle-adventure games like zelda
[21:54] <ali1234> i want to play saints row 3 and darksiders that i got from humble bundle a while ago
[21:54] <dwatkins> I like the 3D GTA games for their sandbox nature.
[21:55] <ali1234> i also want to try out arma free, cos even though it's a FPS, it goes for total realism, which means it avoids most of the things i don't like about FPS games
[21:55] <dwatkins> 0 AD looks neat.
[21:56] <dwatkins> http://play0ad.com/ that is
[21:57] <ali1234> oh also i just got this game called "men of war" which is like a RTS but with more tactics and less "who can micromanage their factories the best"
[21:57] <dwatkins> My absolute favourite game right now is Homeworld 2, for the fact it's a strategy game in 3D.
[21:57] <ali1234> actually it has no factories at all apparently
[21:58] <ali1234> the thing that puts me off most games is when it comes down to knowing the cheesy tactics
[21:58] <ali1234> i don't blame the players for this, i blame the game designers
[23:05] <andylockran> Wow - saucy and xMir are both running incredibly well on my acer revo
[23:06] <andylockran> happy days
[23:13] <daftykins> ye olde ion1 system?
[23:15] <andylockran> yep - does that mean that xmir is just falling back to standard X
[23:18] <daftykins> i guess you'd have a Xorg.0.log if so?