JontheEchidnayofel: yeah, that got sru'd00:08
smartboyhwScottK, I can't upgrade kopete here, there are 2 dependencies that just doesn't exist00:16
=== smartboyhw changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | https://trello.com/kubuntu | https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas 4.10.97 saucy/archive raring/beta quantal/staging precise/beta/read_notes_on_pad | 4.11.0 saucy/ninjas | 13.10 Alpha 2 released | 13.10 milestoned bugs tagged Kubuntu http://goo.gl/vHRjj | Kubuntu Developers meeting today 13:00 UTC
ScottKsmartboyhw: What dependencies in what release?02:29
jalcinesmartboyhw: is there a iCal that I can use to follow Kubuntu events?04:54
shadeslayermorning :)05:21
shadeslayerjalcine: not really05:21
shadeslayer!testers | Please help to QA bug 120841305:22
ubottubug 1208413 in kscreen (Ubuntu Raring) "Please update kscreen to 1.0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120841305:22
ubottuPlease help to QA bug 1208413: Help is needed in #kubuntu-devel. Please ping Riddell, yofel, soee, Tm_T, shadeslayer, BluesKaj, James147, smartboyhw, Quintasan, lordievader, shrini, tester56 for information.05:22
smartboyhwshadeslayer, oy?05:23
smartboyhwjalcine, no05:23
smartboyhwScottK,  kopete : Depends: libmediastreamer-base3 (>= 3.6.1) but it is not installable05:23
smartboyhw          Depends: libortp9 (>= 3.6.1) but it is not installable05:23
shadeslayersmartboyhw: kscreen needs QA05:23
smartboyhwshadeslayer, oh, in 13.10?05:23
smartboyhwshadeslayer, bye bye:P05:23
* smartboyhw does not have 13.0405:23
* shadeslayer has to resist the early morning urge to open reddit and focus on work05:25
* smartboyhw reboots to install Debian alongside (K)ubuntu05:34
shadeslayeryofel: fyi currently installing the hwe stack + kubuntu-backports / updates causes kwin to be removed05:47
shadeslayerand then when you go back, it screws up X1105:47
shadeslayersomething about libgl1 or sth ... not sure05:48
soeegood morning06:09
valorie!info inxi07:30
ubottuPackage inxi does not exist in raring07:30
shadeslayer!info inxi saucy08:11
ubottuinxi (source: inxi): full featured system information script. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.9.12-1 (saucy), package size 115 kB, installed size 438 kB08:11
shadeslayerI see, only in saucy08:11
shadeslayervalorie: you could request a backport I suppose08:11
jussi!find inxi08:30
ubottuFile inxi found in calibre, python-spyderlib, quassel-data08:30
jussiRiddell: are you about today? 08:30
Riddelljussi: sure08:59
jussiRiddell: so after investigating the tshirt/poloshirt situation a fair bit, it seems your local supplier would be the best deal. I was thinking if you buy a batch, then I will sell them, and let you know where to send each one when we have the money. The only parts we need to figure out are postage and final pricing. (as well as $design09:22
jussisay buy 25 to start off with, we put them on the sales website and see how quickly they sell. then we decide how to go forward (numbers etc) after that09:23
Riddelljussi: meh, I'm really not sure I want to spend my time packing and posting tshirts09:23
jussiok. fair enough - your price was 12.50£ right? 09:24
Riddellyeah I think so, for the polos09:24
jussialso, are we happy with just the Kubuntu logo on the front chest? 09:24
jussior do we want more? 09:24
jussi(affects price)09:24
Riddell"It will be £12.50 per poloshirt which will be a total of £250.00 for 20 of them."09:24
Riddellkeep it simple I'd say09:25
jussiok. White ok? 09:25
jussi(white is minorly cheaper than the others)09:26
Riddelljussi: white's ok yes09:26
jussiotherwise a navy blue is my preference09:26
Riddellbut yeah I'd have naxy blue as preference too09:26
jussiIll look around again. WHat price is acceptable asa a sales price? 19.95€ plus postage ?09:27
jussi(embroidered, not printed)09:27
Riddelljussi: what are you thinking for payment?09:30
Riddellthe kubuntu paypal account or something else?09:30
Riddellcos that's in £09:30
jussiRiddell: something else09:30
jussiRiddell: I will put them here: https://holvi.com/shop/Kubuntu/09:32
RiddellI'd go for €20, 19.95 just seems tacky :)09:33
jussiRiddell: Im asking for a quote still from one guyh here in .fi - friend of mine so probably will get a better deal than normal09:46
Riddelljussi: or ask my people and get them to ship over the box09:56
jussiRiddell: i suspect this guy is going to be cheaper still - lets see09:57
=== sayakb_ is now known as sayakb
smartboyhwHello Riddell yofel 10:59
smartboyhwOh, two hours till my application starts:O10:59
Riddellsmartboyhw: you sound quite nervous! don't be we're not here to make you scared11:01
smartboyhwRiddell, :)11:01
smartboyhwRiddell, interesting we at Ubuntu Studio are about to start to publicize our T-shirt shop as well11:02
Riddellsmartboyhw: oh? got any details of how that's organised?11:06
jussiapachelogger: ping11:06
* smartboyhw points Riddell to ubuntustudio.spreadsheet.fr11:07
smartboyhwBut, the Ubuntu Studio team doesn't earn ANY money11:07
smartboyhwSo, not Kubuntu style;P11:07
jussismartboyhw: that address doesnt resolve for me11:13
smartboyhwjussi, uh it's spreadshirt:P11:14
jussiyeah, spreadshirt were reasonably expensive last time I checked11:15
jussismartboyhw: I nthink the thing with ours is we dont want to "make a profit" as such, but all proceeds go back into development. So when yo0u buy a shirt, you not only get a shirt, but you contribute to making sure people continue to contribute to kubuntu11:17
smartboyhwjussi, we don't even GET the money ourselves11:17
jussiyeah, studio is a bit different setup to Kubuntu11:17
smartboyhwjussi, actually the main issue is of negotiating with Canonical:P11:18
Riddell"Mackenzie Morgan (maco.m) renewed their own membership in the Kubuntu Members (kubuntu-members) team until 2014-08-13"  hoorah, maco still loves us!11:29
jussiRiddell: so I have a quote. A once off fee of 40€ for embroidery, then 14€ per shirt for the first 25 shirts. If we order more shirts later, there is no fee for embroidery, and if we order in greater quantities the price gets cheaper. How does that sound? Good enough to go to the council and get a decision? 11:44
Riddelljussi: yeah I'd say so11:45
* Riddell out for an hour11:45
=== smartboyhw changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | https://trello.com/kubuntu | https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas 4.10.97 saucy/archive raring/beta quantal/staging precise/beta/read_notes_on_pad | 4.11.0 saucy/ninjas | 13.10 Alpha 2 released | 13.10 milestoned bugs tagged Kubuntu http://goo.gl/vHRjj | Kubuntu Developers meeting within 1 hour
smartboyhwRiddell, come back for the meeting plz12:00
ScottKsmartboyhw: Neither of them have migrated from proposed yet.12:27
smartboyhwScottK, um I have the ninjas ppa here:P12:41
=== smartboyhw changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | https://trello.com/kubuntu | https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas 4.10.97 saucy/archive raring/beta quantal/staging precise/beta/read_notes_on_pad | 4.11.0 saucy/ninjas | 13.10 Alpha 2 released | 13.10 milestoned bugs tagged Kubuntu http://goo.gl/vHRjj | Kubuntu Developers meeting within 15 minutes
=== smartboyhw changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | https://trello.com/kubuntu | https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas 4.10.97 saucy/archive raring/beta quantal/staging precise/beta/read_notes_on_pad | 4.11.0 saucy/ninjas | 13.10 Alpha 2 released | 13.10 milestoned bugs tagged Kubuntu http://goo.gl/vHRjj | Kubuntu Developers meeting within 15 minutes
Riddellgood afternoon12:56
smartboyhwRiddell, I think we can soon start the meeting:)12:56
Riddellsmartboyhw: want it here or in #u-meeting?12:57
* smartboyhw pings apachelogger and debfx and Riddell and ScottK and JontheEchidna and Quintasan and yofel 12:57
smartboyhwRiddell, here12:57
* jussi waves12:57
smartboyhwAnd jussi and others:P12:57
smartboyhwThat's 3 already, we can start:P12:57
ScottKNo, it's early yet.12:58
smartboyhwScottK, yeah, 2 minutes12:58
smartboyhwActually, if you guys want to , we can hold it in #ubuntu-meeting12:58
ScottKHere is good12:59
smartboyhwScottK, because I want meetingology to appear:P12:59
jussihere is good12:59
jussiheya shadeslayer12:59
smartboyhwWhoa, that's a lot of people here:)12:59
ScottKsmartboyhw: We usually do these here.12:59
smartboyhwScottK, alright13:00
ScottKWe don't really need meetingology for this.13:00
* ScottK looks at Riddell to lead the meeting.13:00
smartboyhwScottK, it's :00 here now13:00
ScottKIt is.13:00
Riddellgood afternoon friends13:01
smartboyhwGood evening13:01
Riddellwho's here for a kubuntu-dev meeting?13:01
smartboyhwo/ as the applicant13:01
shadeslayerand the rest of us as smartboyhw's nightmare13:01
smartboyhwshadeslayer, LOL13:01
* ScottK pokes at debfx and JontheEchidna13:02
Riddelldoes anyone remember the wiki page describing the process? I can't seem to find it13:02
Riddellbut I think it's just a simple majority of people from https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-dev/+members13:02
yofelit should be a simple +3 AFAIR13:02
smartboyhwRiddell, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDevelopers13:02
shadeslayerI think it was a simple matter of cookies13:03
smartboyhwWell, majority of attendees, and the attendess >= 313:03
=== smartboyhw changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | https://trello.com/kubuntu | https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas 4.10.97 saucy/archive raring/beta quantal/staging precise/beta/read_notes_on_pad | 4.11.0 saucy/ninjas | 13.10 Alpha 2 released | 13.10 milestoned bugs tagged Kubuntu http://goo.gl/vHRjj | Kubuntu Developers meeting NOW
smartboyhwFor a nice and fresh topic:)13:03
Riddellsmartboyhw: do you have a wiki page?13:04
smartboyhwRiddell, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/smartboyhw13:04
smartboyhw(Wasn't really detailed with packages worked on)13:04
smartboyhwThe one with packages detail should be @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/smartboyhw/KubuntuDevApplication13:04
Riddellbut it's not?13:05
smartboyhwOr /KubuntuDeveloperApplication13:05
Riddellah yes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/smartboyhw/KubuntuDeveloperApplication13:05
smartboyhwRiddell, that's the list of packages at least13:05
Riddellsmartboyhw: excellent, so now we get to test you a bit on your packaging knowledge13:06
Riddellsmartboyhw: I'm an archive admin, what do you think I look at when reviewing a package that has been uploaded13:07
smartboyhwRiddell, has been uploaded? 13:08
smartboyhwLintian warnings13:08
smartboyhwWhether it's NEW13:08
Riddellsmartboyhw: uploaded to New yes13:08
smartboyhwIs it installable13:08
smartboyhwdh version (shouldn't be too low)13:09
smartboyhw.install files13:10
smartboyhw(Shouldn't have duplicates or not-installed files unless necessary or included in another package)13:10
Riddellyep all that.  copyright is an important one for archive admins, do you know what we'll be looking for there?13:10
Riddell(in New reviews)13:10
smartboyhwRiddell, the copyright should be correct for each file13:11
smartboyhwWith the correct License13:11
Riddellyeah licences is an important thing we'd check13:12
Riddellsuspicious-source checks for any PDF files, do you know why they might be a problem?13:12
Riddellwe also use that during New reviews13:12
smartboyhwRiddell, because of 1. license issues 2. proprietary or non-free features needed13:13
Riddellif it was under the GPL why might it still be a problem?13:13
Riddellothers: nudge you can question too13:14
smartboyhwIt is a generated file13:14
* shadeslayer is waiting for Riddell to finish :)13:14
smartboyhwIt should be generated at compile-time instead?13:14
Riddellsmartboyhw: lovely13:15
Riddellnot necessarily generated at compile time but the source does need to be there as it's not perferred modifiable form13:15
Riddellshadeslayer: go ahead13:15
shadeslayersmartboyhw: we have a bunch of fields in the control file, one of them is X-Debian-ABI, why do you think we have that?13:16
smartboyhwshadeslayer, because the package has a ABI version bump13:16
shadeslayerso why not just bump the so version?13:16
Riddellwho from?13:16
smartboyhwshadeslayer, bumping so version can cause the whole library to change13:17
Riddellsmartboyhw: if you're packaging a new version of a library and you notice changed symbols what should you do?13:18
smartboyhwAnd bumping So version means a new thing13:18
smartboyhwRiddell, pkgkde-symbolshelper patch:P13:19
smartboyhwActually not13:19
smartboyhwRegenerate the whole symbols file is better13:19
Riddellsmartboyhw: just that? what's the point of symbols files?13:19
shadeslayersmartboyhw: okay, another question, what's the structure of an actual deb?13:19
smartboyhwRiddell, shared libraries13:19
smartboyhwshadeslayer, it will contain like this13:20
smartboyhw/usr/lib for the libraries13:20
yofelon that topic: what is a deb file actually?13:20
smartboyhwusr/share for the icons, etc.13:20
shadeslayersmartboyhw: actually, I think yofel phrased my question a bit better :)13:20
yofel(from a technical POV)13:21
smartboyhwyofel, shadeslayer it's a Debian software package format used on Debian-based systems, which works with dpkg, apt-get or aptitude13:21
smartboyhwNormally, it is tar archives13:21
yofelthat is true, but what's the actual file structure?13:21
ScottKActually it's ar, not tar on the outside.13:22
shadeslayerssshhhh :P13:22
smartboyhwScottK, my fault, I did want to type ar:P13:22
smartboyhwyofel, a control.tar.gz, consisting of the meta-info13:22
smartboyhwAnd a data.tar.gz (or any ar file),13:23
smartboyhwconsisting of the usr/lib, usr/share, usr/bin...13:23
yofelnoting that ar isn't tar, ok13:24
smartboyhwyofel, ar != tar13:24
smartboyhwGot it13:24
* shadeslayer is satisfied with that as well13:24
* smartboyhw likes tar:P13:24
smartboyhwMore questions plz:P13:24
yofelone other thing about X-Debian-ABI, what's required for it to be used?13:24
shadeslayer^^ I did ask that, didn't get a proper reply :P13:24
smartboyhwyofel, shadeslayer when a new version of library breaks the previous one13:25
smartboyhwActually, the previous good oneP13:26
yofelthat's *when* it is used, but it doesn't just work out of the box13:26
shadeslayersmartboyhw: a test is failing in a package and it really needs to be uploaded, what would you do to fix the package?13:26
smartboyhwyofel, breaks/conflicts?13:26
* apachelogger sits in13:26
smartboyhwshadeslayer, is the test very important?13:27
smartboyhwi.e. the whole package is NOT working?13:27
yofelsmartboyhw: no, I guess you never noticed. Look at kde-workspace/debian/patches/enable_debianabimanager.diff for example13:27
* apachelogger leaves again13:27
smartboyhwapachelogger, ?13:27
debfxsmartboyhw: how do you need to change the packages when upstream moves a file from one package/orig tarball to another?13:27
shadeslayersmartboyhw: nope13:27
shadeslayerapachelogger: not so fast :>13:27
smartboyhwshadeslayer, Upload it first,13:28
smartboyhwThen patch the test13:28
smartboyhwUpload a new version with new -ubuntu version?13:28
smartboyhwdebfx, you mean, from .bz2 -> .xz or?13:28
shadeslayersmartboyhw: sure, but how would you disable the tests13:28
smartboyhwshadeslayer, override it in debian/rules13:29
shadeslayerright, *how*?13:29
debfxsmartboyhw: no, for example a file is moved from kopete to kde-runtime13:30
smartboyhwdebfx, ah13:30
apacheloggerwhy would you deactivate all tests if one test is failing?13:30
smartboyhwdebfx, delete the file in kopete.install, add it in kde-runtime, make sure kde-runtime breaks the previous kopete versions and upload13:30
smartboyhwbreaks/conflicts sorry13:30
debfxsmartboyhw: which one? breaks and conflicts?13:31
smartboyhwdebfx, and:P13:31
* smartboyhw likes using “/” for "and"...13:31
debfxsmartboyhw: what's the difference between breaks and conflicts? :)13:32
smartboyhwdebfx, breaks means the installing package will not be configured unless the previous one is uninstalled13:33
smartboyhwConflicts means the two packages will not be configured and unpacked at same time13:33
smartboyhwapachelogger, hmm, then maybe patch the package itself so the scripts running the tests will not run the failed one?13:34
ScottKsmartboyhw: Take a look at http://paste.debian.net/24321/ and tell me what your reaction to that being in a source package would be?13:34
apachelogger(technically the breaker will not even be unpacked)13:34
apachelogger(technically conflicts means they will not ever be unpacked at the same time)13:34
smartboyhwScottK, the formatting is a bit weird13:35
shadeslayerI think that is intentional :P13:35
smartboyhwFix it?13:35
apacheloggersmartboyhw: that would seem more reasonable13:35
smartboyhwapachelogger, OK13:35
ScottKsmartboyhw: That's called minified javascript.  It's a problem because it's not the preferred form of modification, so it can't be considered source.13:37
smartboyhwScottK, sorry, I touched C, C++ and Python before, but never js13:37
ScottKSo you can't just copy it into the binary for Main/Universe.13:37
ScottKYou'll find it often in documentation.13:37
Riddellsmartboyhw: do you know the current best practice for packaging python?13:38
yofelsmartboyhw: symbol files have the version when the symbol was added attached to every symbol (e.g. '_ZN4KWin12glBindBufferE@ABI_1_2 4:4.10.80'). What is it used for? And where does ABI_1_2 come from?13:38
Riddellwhich debhelper module?13:38
smartboyhwRiddell, yofel one question at a time...13:38
smartboyhwRiddell, dh_python ?13:38
debfxsmartboyhw: would it be enough to just use Breaks?13:38
shadeslayerokay, too many questions, I think I'll hold off on mine for now 13:38
yofelsmartboyhw: just answer them in the order they're asked13:39
smartboyhwyofel: It means the minimum version that the symbols exist. ABI_1_2 come from the SOVERSION13:39
smartboyhwAnd maybe the ABI version?13:39
smartboyhwdebfx, no13:39
* apachelogger thinks yofel likes ABI a lot :P13:39
yofelsmartboyhw: where is that minimum version used?13:39
* yofel wonders how apachelogger realized that yofel is evil13:40
smartboyhwdebfx, breaks can't ensure what happens when the two packages are unpacked AT THE SAME TIME13:40
smartboyhwi.e. when upgrading both packages13:40
shadeslayersmartboyhw: I have a line like this in debian/rules : -dh_foo : <more lines afterwards> : what does the - there indicate?13:40
debfxsmartboyhw: yes. is there a better alternative to Conflicts in this case?13:41
apacheloggeryofel: should you ever run out of evil ask me for questions.txt it shall give you plenty more evil :P13:41
yofelsmartboyhw: almost correct, ABI_ comes from debian abi manager, usually it says 'Base' there. 1 is the SOVERSION, 2 is X-Debian-ABI13:41
yofelapachelogger: :O13:41
* shadeslayer would like to see apachelogger's questions.txt13:41
smartboyhwdebfx, I thought Conflicts are mostly replaced by breaks now...13:41
Riddellsmartboyhw: dh_python isn't current best practice but I did have to look that up to double check, how would you look it up to find out?13:42
apacheloggershadeslayer: you were likely happy enough to see questions from it13:42
shadeslayerProbably, but can't hurt to see more ;)13:42
smartboyhwRiddell, in the Debian guides?13:43
smartboyhwRiddell, and it should be dh_python2 I think..13:43
Riddellsmartboyhw: yep, good answers :)13:43
apacheloggersmartboyhw: what are udeb files? do we use them? why & whatfor?13:43
smartboyhwapachelogger, udeb is a micro-deb that does not have the requirements for changelog, copyright, etc.13:44
debfxsmartboyhw: right, but you said correctly that breaks isn't enough. instead of Conflicts you should use Breaks+Replaces for moving files between packages.13:45
smartboyhwI don't think the Kubuntu team uses it, you will normally use it for kernels (like in d-i)13:45
smartboyhwdebfx, yep:)13:45
* smartboyhw really doesn't know the answer to shadeslayer's -dh question, uh oh:P13:45
apacheloggersmartboyhw: what's etc? do we use udebs? whatfor do we use udebs?13:45
smartboyhwapachelogger, even md5sums13:46
shadeslayersmartboyhw: so basically - is used to indicate that even if dh_foo fails, the package build should not fail13:46
shadeslayerand the buildd can safely ignore that error13:46
Riddellsmartboyhw: for the -dh question you can say what format the debian/rules file is in and how you'd research that format to find out the syntax13:47
apacheloggerit's the obvious answer to every code question ^^13:47
shadeslayerI still have to read manual for said format :P13:47
* shadeslayer hides from apachelogger13:48
* yofel notes that smartboyhw hasn't answered what those minimum versions are used for either - actually tell 2 dpkg-/dh_ parts that use that information13:48
shadeslayersmartboyhw: what's a virtual package?13:49
smartboyhwRiddell, debian/rules is in a makefile13:50
smartboyhwRiddell, because most debian/rules has a #!/usr/bin/make -f header:P13:50
apacheloggerI found a god one13:50
apacheloggeror a good one, lololo13:50
smartboyhwapachelogger, ?13:50
apacheloggersmartboyhw: you still have not answered whether we use udeb files and what we use them for if we use them?13:51
shadeslayerapachelogger: there are a bunch of unanswered questions 13:51
apacheloggerthen you get the singlest most evil question in the world ^^13:51
smartboyhwapachelogger, if you use them you use it only for kernels or partman right?13:51
apacheloggerkinda, there's a reason for that though13:52
smartboyhwOr for packages that has requirements such that it shouldn't contain so many different iinfo...........13:52
smartboyhwSince these packages can only be done in RAm13:52
smartboyhwshadeslayer, virtual package13:52
smartboyhwIt normally is used to contain specific packages13:52
smartboyhwFor example, calligra depends on different calligra components13:52
shadeslayeruhm I think you're confusing virtual packages with meta packages :)13:53
smartboyhwshadeslayer, oops:P13:53
smartboyhwshadeslayer, it's used for provides13:54
smartboyhwWhen one package provides a functionality13:54
ScottKWhat's wrong with "Depends: default-mail-transport-agent"13:54
smartboyhwScottK, then it doesn't know which mail transport agent to install13:55
smartboyhwSince there are many packages providing it13:55
ScottKSure it does.  default-mail-transport-agent is only provided by one package.13:55
shadeslayersmartboyhw: how would you get details of a virtual package from the command line13:55
shadeslayeri.e equivalent of apt-cache show for virtual packages13:56
Riddellfolks: time to start wrapping up, no new questions please13:56
smartboyhwshadeslayer, what details do you want?13:56
ScottKsmartboyhw: A package should almost always have an alternate to a virtual depends, like mail-transport-agent | postfix13:56
shadeslayersmartboyhw: what packages provide that virtual package13:57
Riddellshadeslayer: ahem13:57
smartboyhwapt-cache showpkg?13:57
shadeslayercool, I'm done :)13:58
smartboyhwScottK, oh13:58
ScottKThat's if there are multiple providers of the virtual package.  Actually my first example was fine.13:58
smartboyhwThank you all for grilling me:)13:58
smartboyhwScottK, uh .....13:59
Riddellsmartboyhw: we've been chatting a bit in a private channel (I know, very naughty of us)13:59
smartboyhwRiddell, private channel?!13:59
* smartboyhw does not understand13:59
smartboyhwOh, got it13:59
smartboyhwVery naughty13:59
ScottKThere's only one default-mail-transport-agent, but multiple providers of mail-transport-agent, so the latter needs the alternate depends.13:59
smartboyhwScottK, ah14:00
Riddellsmartboyhw: we're all very happy you put yourself through the grilling and want to you to be in kubuntu-dev but are a bit concerned at the lack of detailed knowledge in areas14:00
smartboyhwRiddell, I remembered14:00
smartboyhwWhen shadeslayer had his grilling14:00
Riddellsmartboyhw: could we ask you to do some informal training sessions with kubuntu-devs to brush up and come back next month?14:01
smartboyhwPeople said: "He still needs to learn a lot more"14:01
smartboyhwThen why can't I?:P14:01
smartboyhwPeople learn through experience14:01
smartboyhwI mean, I will still get to you guys when I have questions14:01
smartboyhwAnd I normally will want to get some person reviewing before uploading14:01
smartboyhwRiddell, uh informal?14:02
apacheloggerI still want to ask my evil question :(14:02
smartboyhwapachelogger, you can still asK:P14:02
apacheloggernah then I can't use it next time :P14:02
shadeslayerapachelogger: you also did not ask your customary "Everyone is sloshed except you before release day"14:02
apacheloggerI know14:03
apachelogger<- has 5 more questions queued :P14:03
apacheloggerbut oh well14:03
yofelsmartboyhw: well, then not having upload permissions for a month more won't hurt much, will it? You've learned a lot lately, but I think you need to be a bit more competence until we're happy to let you upload packages unreviewed14:03
Riddellsmartboyhw: or come back earlier than next month but I'd be reluctant to give you upload access if you don't know what symbols files are for etc14:03
yofels/to be//14:03
kubotuyofel meant: "smartboyhw: well, then not having upload permissions for a month more won't hurt much, will it? You've learned a lot lately, but I think you need  a bit more competence until we're happy to let you upload packages unreviewed"14:03
Riddellsmartboyhw: but don't let this put you off! we need you for 4.11 this week!14:05
shadeslayerfrom me, you just need a bit more experience before I give a full +1, please do reapply soonish :)14:05
smartboyhwRiddell, yofel next month sure:)14:05
apacheloggerPSA: for general training everyone try to write the tiniest possible debian/rules that does not use dh (i.e. debhelper <=6)14:05
ScottKapachelogger: How about one that doesn't use debhelper at all?14:05
apacheloggeralso possible14:06
smartboyhwapachelogger, everyone? Including Riddell and yofel and shadeslayer ?14:06
apacheloggeralbeit more codes 14:06
ScottKThere may still be a package or two in the archive that doesn't use it.14:06
apacheloggersmartboyhw: sure14:07
Riddellhello doesn't use debhelper I think14:07
yofelwould be fun, I haven't looked at all the targets in a while14:07
apacheloggerI do always find it questionable when people don't know what is going on underneath dh14:07
smartboyhwNo dh, uh oh:P14:07
* shadeslayer recalls some targets, but not all of them14:07
apacheloggerand what would be needed to create a bare minimum deb14:07
Riddellah, classic http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/rules14:08
apacheloggermine's 29 lines with comments and all14:08
smartboyhwapachelogger, oh, all the targets?14:08
apacheloggerthe targets that are necessary :P14:08
smartboyhwI thought I was in pre-jurrasic era:P14:08
apacheloggerRiddell: for some reason google's dns never wants to resolve 19inch.net14:08
apacheloggerit's le weird14:08
smartboyhwapachelogger, heh14:09
Riddellapachelogger: google's dns?14:09
shadeslayerapachelogger: stop using the silly dns resolver14:09
shadeslayerapachelogger: use http://www.opennicproject.org/ instead14:09
shadeslayerso happpy :D14:09
apacheloggerAre you looking for an alternative DNS provider that is open and democratic, are you concerned about censorship?14:09
shadeslayerpn5 is completely built for raring and saucy now14:10
apacheloggerthat doesn't even make sense14:10
Riddelldig @ starsky.19inch.net  works14:10
apacheloggeroh true14:10
apacheloggerthis machine doesn't have it hardcoded14:10
apacheloggerit's the ISP's DNS14:11
* apachelogger sighs at austria14:11
yofelsmartboyhw: for the record, about my symbol version question. I would've been happy with dpkg-gensymbols (which sets those versions) and dpkg-shlibdeps (which calculates versioned library dependency versions from that)14:12
apacheloggersmartboyhw: I like that write-a-rules thing so much if I were you I'd practise writing rules :P14:12
smartboyhwapachelogger, the only target I can't understand is binary-indep14:13
smartboyhwyofel, I know about dpkg-gensymbols (the one throwing off the symbols diff if it's wrong)14:13
apacheloggerarch: all = binary-indep14:13
smartboyhwapachelogger, ah14:13
shadeslayerokay cya later14:14
apacheloggeror rather, if you invoke dpkg-buildpackage with whatever silly flag there is to only build arch: all packages it will invoke binary-indep rather than binary or binary-arch14:14
smartboyhwapachelogger, got it14:14
smartboyhwSo, what types of "informal" sessions have you planned for me? Give me a schedule at least...14:14
smartboyhws/you/you guys/14:15
kubotusmartboyhw meant: "So, what types of "informal" sessions have you guys planned for me? Give me a schedule at least..."14:15
* apachelogger thinks Riddell meant like you asking a random dev "can you plz tell me everything you know about udebs" (or symbols, or whatever)14:15
smartboyhwapachelogger, random dev?14:15
* smartboyhw picks random dev as apachelogger 14:16
apacheloggeryofel_: do you have time to tell me all you know about being evil WRT ABI?14:16
=== apachelogger is now known as yovel_
=== yovel_ is now known as apachelogger
apacheloggercool, I'll pm14:16
yofel. . .14:16
apachelogger^ there, I did my training deed and tought smartboyhw how to request training :P14:17
smartboyhwapachelogger, what the..14:17
yofelhow nice of you ^^14:17
smartboyhwHow "nice" of you:P14:17
smartboyhwapachelogger, so, do you have time telling me all you know about the evil udebs?14:17
apacheloggerunfortunately no, I am not at home... I hear yofel_ has time to tell you about symbols and what not ^^14:18
Quintasanoh damn it14:18
Quintasandem time zones14:18
QuintasanI lost my opporunity to grill smartboyhw, didn't I?14:18
apacheloggerQuintasan: you had been late regardless14:18
yofelwell, which reminds me I need to read up on udebs myself. I usually care about them enough to know that they're stripped-down debs used by d-i14:19
Quintasanapachelogger: late for what apart from smartboyhw grilling?14:19
yofelQuintasan: you'll get another chance in a month14:20
smartboyhwyofel, anytime to talk about symbls then?14:20
smartboyhwA month is a weird restriction (LOL)14:20
Quintasanyofel, smartboyhw you might to want to keep it public14:20
apacheloggersmartboyhw: actually about udeb... they indeed lack the metadata that you'd find in a regular deb reason being that they are meant for bootstrap and you don't raelly need metadata for bootstrapping,which is also why only core packages have udebs to begin with14:21
QuintasanI could use a refresh too14:21
apacheloggerQuintasan: you are late to me offering free booze14:21
Quintasanapachelogger: Come to Poland.14:21
Quintasankubotu: order beer for apachelogger14:22
* kubotu gives apachelogger a nice frosty mug of beer.14:22
apacheloggerlet's meet in cz, they got better beer anyway14:22
* smartboyhw waits for yofel to start14:24
smartboyhwActually, it's good you give me another month, I need to work on linux-rt:P14:25
yofelI'm a bit busy now really14:25
yofelwhat I asked today is essentially documented in the dpkg-gensymbols and dpkg-shlibdeps manpages. 14:27
yofelwhich reminds me that we didn't ask what an shlibs file is for14:27
Quintasandid we get the symbols file :P14:28
Quintasansymbols file question*14:28
apacheloggerkubotu: hi14:29
kuboture, apachelogger14:29
yofelQuintasan: as I knew that he knows that we use them for ABI management, we only asked about debian abi manager and symbol versioning14:29
apacheloggerkubotu_: hi14:29
kubotuhowdy, apachelogger14:29
kubotu_'afternoon, apachelogger :)14:29
Quintasanyofel: I see.14:29
apacheloggerkubotu_: nick kubotu14:30
=== kubotu_ is now known as kubotu
apacheloggerjussi: ^ migration complete14:30
smartboyhwYou guys should make a full doc on "what should a new Kubuntu packager learn"...14:31
* smartboyhw looks at dpkg-gensymbols and dpkg-shlibdeps manpages14:31
smartboyhwQuintasan, then can you run me a tutorial:P14:32
smartboyhwOr just any dev/14:34
QuintasanI mean, read the damn docs14:34
QuintasanAfter that you should generally ask questions14:35
smartboyhwQuintasan, OK14:35
Quintasanif there is something not clear14:35
smartboyhwQuintasan, what is a substvars?14:35
smartboyhwAh, I got it now:P14:36
QuintasanDid you actually finish reading?14:36
smartboyhwQuintasan, maybe I should ask: Where is shlibs files generated?14:37
* smartboyhw can't seem to find it in the manpages14:37
QuintasanIIRC they are generated in debian/ during the build process14:38
Quintasanby dpkg-genshlibs or sth like that14:38
smartboyhwQuintasan, no that command I think14:38
yofeldpkg-shlibdeps you mean14:38
Quintasanah yes14:39
smartboyhwyofel, wait, does dpkg-shlibdeps generate the shlibs files?14:39
smartboyhwI can't seem to understand that part14:39
* smartboyhw understands the symbols14:39
=== smartboyhw changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - Friendly Computing | https://trello.com/kubuntu | https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas 4.10.97 saucy/archive raring/beta quantal/staging precise/beta/read_notes_on_pad | 4.11.0 saucy/ninjas | 13.10 Alpha 2 released | 13.10 milestoned bugs tagged Kubuntu http://goo.gl/vHRjj |
apachelogger  debian/*/DEBIAN/symbols14:39
apachelogger              Shared  library  information  generated  by  the  current  build14:39
apachelogger              process that also invoked dpkg-shlibdeps.  They are generated by14:39
apachelogger              dpkg-gensymbols(1).   They are only used if the library is found14:39
apachelogger              in a package's build tree. The symbols file in that  build  tree14:39
apachelogger              takes precedence over symbols files from other binary packages.14:39
yofeldpkg-shlibdeps does generate some during build14:40
apacheloggerrtfm I say :P14:40
smartboyhwyofel, apachelogger oh so dpkg-shlibdeps generate shlibs itself, I read the manpage and thought “Where does it come from?":P14:40
apacheloggerthen you didn't read the manpage :P14:42
apacheloggercause I just pasted from the manpage :P14:42
manchickenapachelogger: Can you RTFM me to a document showing me how to run those code quality tools you were using?14:45
manchickenI'm dealing with interview prep right now, so I can't do anything on that project at the moment, but I want to be able to verify my code using the same tools you did prior to submitting again :)14:45
manchickenThe krazy checker gives me all sorts of fun trouble.14:49
apacheloggerwell, it's perl software it's meant to do that ^^14:50
Riddellhmm, with 4.11 from ninjas I can't install kopete14:50
yofelinstalls fine here14:51
manchickenapachelogger: Ooh, touchet.14:51
* Quintasan checks14:51
manchicken(touché even?)14:51
Riddellyofel: do you have libmediastreamer-base3 ?14:52
apacheloggermanchicken: latter14:52
yofelyes, but that's from saucy-proposed, so that explains it14:53
yofel(I have -proposed enabled with a 50 pin)14:53
smartboyhwRiddell, me too14:53
Riddellyofel: but how does kopete build against it?14:53
smartboyhwyofel, boo14:53
* smartboyhw doesn't have -propoesd here14:53
Riddelldoes ninjas build against -proposed14:53
smartboyhwRiddell, yes14:54
yofelninjas builds against -proposed, yes14:54
Riddellthat's a good thing, just not great when we have a stuck package like this14:54
Riddelllinphone Valid candidate 14:55
QuintasanThat said copying packages from ppa to main won't do, will it?14:55
Quintasanto repositories*14:55
yofelwell, afaik it's possible, we just never do it14:56
RiddellI don't think we want to do it, too error prone14:56
Riddellhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt  says something about sipwitch14:56
ScottKRiddell: I'm working on it.15:01
yofeltsdgeos: are we getting nepomuk-core respins? or should we just patch vishesh's fixes in?15:02
vHandayou are15:02
vHandaplease wait a little while longer15:03
RiddellScottK: linphone has always been a mess, this is probably why we dropped its use by kopete in the first place15:03
vHandastill testing some stuff15:03
RiddellScottK: I recently added that back on request of upstream but we can remove it again if it's a problem15:03
ScottKRiddell: There's a whole dependency mess around it.15:03
ScottKNo, you can leave it.15:03
smartboyhwyofel, Riddell see your inbox15:06
smartboyhwshadeslayer, ^15:06
apol_is kde 4.11rc2 available yet? 15:10
apol_I don't see it here http://community.kde.org/KDE_SC/Binary_Packages15:10
smartboyhwapol_, um, we are working on 4.11.0:)15:10
apol_oh :(15:11
smartboyhwapol_, which series are u using?15:11
smartboyhw13.10 and 13.04 and 12.04 are available15:11
apol_I use archlinux, it was for a blogger who wanted to do some testing of 4.1115:11
smartboyhwapol_, which release is he using?15:11
apol_13.04 i guess15:12
smartboyhwapol_, it's available in kubuntu-ppa/beta15:12
smartboyhwTell him to sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kubuntu-ppa/beta15:12
smartboyhwAnd sudo apt-get update15:12
smartboyhwAnd sudo apt-get dist-upgrade15:12
apol_smartboyhw: so you do have packages of the rc afterall?15:12
yofelyes, the binary packages page just wasn't updated15:13
apol_ok, thanks yofel15:13
smartboyhwyofel, Riddell shadeslayer do reply to the e-mail if you want me experienced enough to be dev:P15:19
smartboyhwGood night (need to sleep early, piano exam tmr)15:19
Riddellhmm kamoso gets removed when I install kde-full15:22
Riddellis it time to run kubuntu-batch-backport ?15:29
yofelwell, you'll have to update nepomuk later15:30
yofelotherwise go ahead15:30
* Riddell moves unstable backport hooks to stable and runs >./kubuntu-batch-backport -v 4.11.0 -f saucy -t raring -V 4.11.015:32
yofelRiddell: -V should be 13.0415:43
Riddellyofel: doh15:46
ScottKIf you rebuild kopete now, the result should be installable.15:48
RiddellScottK: what's changed?15:49
ScottKRemoved a bunch of crap from -proposed that wasn't going to get sorted otherwise.15:49
ScottKremove-package -s saucy-proposed -m "Unbuildable set of entangled packages with ucommon - See Debian #716855" ucommon libccrtp libzrtpcpp sipwitch libexosip2 libosip2 linphone siproxd15:49
ubottuDebian bug 716855 in libucommon-dev "libucomon-dev: Dependency on libgnutls28-dev makes sflphone unbuildable" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/71685515:49
Riddelllovely, thanks ScottK 15:50
ScottKSo now it'll be back to the older versions in -release, which work.15:50
RiddellI'll rebuild kopete in ninjas15:50
Riddellhmm plasma-runners-addons  Breaks: kamoso (<< 2.0.2+)16:04
Riddellbut there's no such thing as 2.0.2+ in debian16:06
Riddellmm it'll be the youtube icon but that's been renamed16:08
ScottKafiestas: Mabye we need a new kamoso release ...16:11
Riddellah it's a packaging bug16:13
afiestasScottK: yes :/16:13
Riddellbut yeah a new kamoso release with those youtube icons renamed would make sense16:13
afiestasand with kipi plugin 2 support16:14
afiestasbleh, will do the release today16:14
afiestasthough I don't have a webcam to test so I will need your help :p16:14
afiestasScottK: Riddell can you try branch 2.1 ?16:16
afiestasdon't mind the 2.1, we can release it as 2.0.2 if you need it that way16:16
ScottK2.1 is fine.16:17
* Riddell git clones kamoso16:17
Riddellafiestas: I want to do  git checkout remotes/origin/2.1 ?16:18
afiestasit should work just with16:18
afiestasgit checkout 2.116:18
Riddelloh problem, my webcam doesn't seem to be working16:19
Riddellit wasn't working with google handouts when we tried either16:19
Riddellanyone else able to help?16:20
Riddellafiestas: compiles and runs fine but my webcam doesn't want to work so not a good tester16:24
Riddell!testers | kamoso 2.116:24
ubottukamoso 2.1: Help is needed in #kubuntu-devel. Please ping Riddell, yofel, soee, Tm_T, shadeslayer, BluesKaj, James147, smartboyhw, Quintasan, lordievader, shrini, tester56 for information.16:24
ScottKOK, so I see the kopete build failed.16:25
ScottKI did rebuilt 4.10.97 successfully.16:25
QuintasanRiddell: I'm on it16:26
RiddellQuintasan: on kamoso?16:29
Quintasanafiestas: there is 2.0.2 and origin/2.1 branch, which one is it?16:30
afiestas2.0 shouldn't be building with libkipi16:31
Riddell"protocols/jabber/googletalk/libjingle/talk/session/phone/linphonemediaengine.cc:203:57: error: 'AudioStream' has no member named 'ms'"16:31
Riddellthis stuff is way more trouble that it's worth16:32
ScottKIf you drop that, you can drop my changes to make it build on ppc16:32
Quintasanafiestas: Anything in particular I should look out for or general functionality testing will suffice?16:35
RiddellQuintasan: send us a mugshot!16:35
afiestasQuintasan: gneral functionality plus Youtube upload (that shouldn't wprk)16:35
QuintasanRiddell: http://wstaw.org/m/2013/08/12/picture_1.png16:39
Quintasanafiestas: I need kipi-plugins to get yt upload?16:40
afiestasQuintasan: in theory no16:43
afiestasyou need libkipi though16:43
Quintasanin practice I don't see YT upload option16:45
* Quintasan rebuilds16:45
RiddellQuintasan: sexy times!16:46
QuintasanI really need to retake my profile picture16:47
Quintasanthis time in HD16:47
Quintasanafiestas: I have absolutely no idea how to try sending that video to YouTube :D16:48
* Quintasan can't find any option to do that16:48
afiestasQuintasan: right click on the thumbnails?16:49
Quintasanafiestas: Trash or Open options there only16:49
afiestasthat shouldn't happen16:49
Quintasanii  libkipi10            4:4.10.2-0ubunt amd64           library for apps that want to use kipi-plugins16:49
QuintasanSo libkipi is installed16:49
Riddelldid it compile against it?16:49
afiestasdo you have libkipi20 ?16:50
Riddellhow about libkipi-dev ?16:50
Quintasanand no libkipi2016:50
Riddelllibkipi-dev and libkipi1116:50
Riddellldd /usr/bin/kamoso | grep kipi16:50
Riddellshould say /usr/lib/libkipi.so.1116:50
Quintasan        libkipi.so.10 => /usr/lib/libkipi.so.10 (0x00007ffbd57c3000)16:51
QuintasanIt's linking against 10, guess I need to find my saucy vm16:51
Quintasanto try with 1116:51
baltolkienAkonadi and Nepomuk works in Kubuntu with KDE 4.11 RC?16:53
Quintasanbaltolkien: I see no reason why it shouldn't16:55
Blizzzbaltolkien: i lost my believe akonadi will work reliably one day16:55
baltolkienWell, In my laptop doesn't work16:55
baltolkienI just upgrade but doesn't work :(16:55
baltolkienAkonadi don't register at D-Bus16:56
jbichais qt5 ok for transmission? or do you need this reverted for now? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transmission/2.82-0ubuntu116:58
RiddellQuintasan: you don't need saucy, you need kde sc 4.1116:58
RiddellQuintasan: what do you have?16:58
Quintasan4.10 since I'm on my laptop16:58
Quintasanlooking for the vm I have16:59
jbichanever mind, I guess you don't ship transmission by default anyway16:59
Riddelljbicha: um, I don't know, I've never used it16:59
Riddelljbicha: so you'd be as good testing it as anyone I guess17:01
QuintasanRiddell, afiestas: Uh, for yt upload it might take a while but the rest of Kamoso works normally17:06
QuintasanI can take pictures and videos and whatnot17:06
RiddellQuintasan: not got 4.11 installed?17:07
QuintasanNot on my laptop. I'd rather have stable stuff there installed17:08
QuintasanRiddell: My PC is running saucy but I'm back in hometown now so no access to it17:08
Riddell4.11 is two days away from being stable :)17:10
* Riddell uploads 4.11 to ninjas for raring17:10
Blizzz(except for akonadi, that is two eternities away – sorry for being grumpy)17:16
ScottKjbicha: Did you see http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/2013/08/qt-in-debian-using-qt4-andor-qt5-in.html17:16
jbichaScottK: I just added qt5-default to build-depends and transmission-qt built and ran which was good enough for me17:18
ScottKYeah, that should be enough.17:18
RiddellScottK: you're a debian ftpmaster?17:25
ScottKFTP assistant, but yes.17:25
Riddellelite :)17:25
QuintasanScottK is so 1337 words are not enough :D17:28
yofelQuintasan: are the kipi-plugins installed17:28
Quintasanyofel: Yes, they are. I already removed everything and I'm setting up virtualbox17:29
jussiyofel shadeslayer valorie please + or - the tshirts thing on the list19:12
=== petersaints_ is now known as petersaints
valoriewill do20:59
valorieI still want a polo though20:59
ScottKRiddell and shadeslayer: Are you in the "Blue Systems developers working on Frameworks in August" group?22:48
RiddellScottK: group where?23:04
ScottKRiddell: http://agateau.com/2013/08/12/frameworks-5-push23:23

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