[09:51] <cub> Hi xequence how's the debconf?
[09:52] <xequence> cub: Very nice
[09:52] <cub> Are you staying the whole week?
[09:53] <xequence> cub: You said something about the menu after I left last time
[09:53] <xequence> Editing the menu manually with gui tools wont work with the custom menu
[09:53] <xequence> or, it didnt before anyway
[09:53] <cub> haha yes, there was an app to change the menus
[09:53] <xequence> There are a few
[09:53] <cub> hmm I did some tests on my 13.04 and added a "Audio Programming" item with an app in it
[09:53] <xequence> alacarte is the one commonly used on gnome
[09:54] <xequence> Adding your own stuff, yes, but how about the existing custom menu entries?
[09:54] <cub> I don't remember the menu exactly but settings - main menu something
[09:54] <xequence> Adding stuff to those
[09:54] <cub> I didn't test but they were there so I suppose I would be able to hide things or add new items
[09:55] <cub> could do a test during lunch time
[09:56] <cub> Another thing, if you have the time. You mentioned earlier that the low-latency kernel might use a bit more resources than the general, so using more battery on a laptop
[09:56] <cub> How much difference do you think it is?
[09:57] <cub> I'm running US on my eee pc now and it has low battery time as it is. I won't do any audio work on it so I was thinking if I would get a few minutes more if running a general kernel
[09:58] <xequence> cub: Ive never measured, but having been running lowlatency on this machine for many hours, I dont think its a huge difference, if there is one
[09:58] <cub> Ok, I won't bother then.
[09:59] <xequence> the biggest difference between the two is probably throughput. -lowlatency has 10% less throughput, from what Ive understood
[09:59] <xequence> This is mostly bad for servers
[09:59] <cub> yeah not a problem for my browsing and libre office work. :P
[09:59] <xequence> -lowlateny might be a good desktop kernel
[10:15] <cub> I'm quite swamped at home for a couple of weeks, but I'm trying to take a look at that Accessability for visually impaired from the devel-maillist
[10:16] <cub> Josh, the OP, seems to have been quite active on the Vinux support groups so he might have some good input
[10:17] <cub> http://vinuxproject.org/ , "Vinux is a Ubuntu derived distribution optimised for the needs of blind and partially sighted users."
[10:19] <cub> from what I've seen most applications are available in the repos. The main point I think is to include Orca and maybe Brltty in the DVD so it can be started in Live mode and work during the installation process.
[10:40] <xequence> cub: I'd really prefer to stay out of that completely. Seems like there are people who know their stuff, and if someone just proposes some changes, I can help make them.
[10:40] <xequence> I'm currently working on a couple of debian packages
[10:40] <xequence> going to try get ardour3 uploaded soon
[10:40] <cub> Why not? Standard Ubuntu include Orca on installation
[10:41] <xequence> Why not, what?
[10:42] <cub> cub: I'd really prefer to stay out of that completely.
[10:42] <cub> Why should we stay out of accessibility?
[10:42] <xequence> Me, personally
[10:42] <cub> ah
[10:42] <xequence> I have enough to do as it is
[10:42] <xequence> And I don't know anything about that stuff either
[10:43] <xequence> so, if someone comes up with a good list of changes we could make, I'll happily make them
[10:43] <cub> absolutely, I was thinking I would look into how others do it, what we would need to include in the DVD. But then someone would have to do the magic to get it in there.
[10:43] <cub> As I have worked with visually impaired tools before I jumped into it.
[10:43] <xequence> might be as easy as just adding a couple of packages to our seeds
[10:43] <cub> I think so.
[10:45] <cub> I used to work as a sound tech and then later IT tech at "Synskadades Riksförbund" here in Stockholm
[10:45] <xequence> You should have the best experience in that then
[10:46] <xequence> Oh, I took a picture of myself with the t-shirt today
[10:46] <xequence> going to send it to the list
[10:46] <cub> It was some time ago, but yeah. I hope to get good feedback from Josh who can do the "real" testing
[10:46] <cub> nice. I'm waiting for my package to arrive.
[11:02] <smartboyhw> Hello xequence 
[11:06] <DarkEra> heya smartboyhw and the others
[11:06] <smartboyhw> Hey DarkEra haven't seen you for a while:)
[11:08] <DarkEra> that's true, been busy renovating the house, family came over for a visit and i'm still on my netbook. I think i'll be able to get a new machine somewhere in the first quarter of 2014
[11:10] <smartboyhw> DarkEra, oh
[11:12] <xequence> Hey everyone
[11:12] <DarkEra> hi xequence 
[11:12] <xequence> Just posted a pic of me wearing the t-shirt
[11:12] <smartboyhw> xequence, where?
[11:12] <xequence> hoping it doesnt get blocked
[11:12] <xequence> on our devel mail list
[11:12] <smartboyhw> *blink*
[11:13] <smartboyhw> xequence, haven't received it yet
[11:13] <xequence> It requires approval
[11:13] <smartboyhw> xequence, wait, why do YOU need approval?
[11:14] <xequence> because of the jpg file
[11:14] <smartboyhw> Hmm...
[11:14] <smartboyhw> xequence, just can't you approve yourself?
[11:15] <xequence> Just about to
[11:16] <smartboyhw> xequence, LO
[11:16] <smartboyhw> *LOL
[11:16]  * smartboyhw proposes to set that image as the default wallpaper for Ubuntu Studio 13.10.
[11:19] <DarkEra> nice :)
[11:19] <smartboyhw> xequence, real nice
[11:20] <smartboyhw> xequence, Any changes of products should go through one or more of the leading
[11:20] <smartboyhw> members. Myself and madeinkobaia in particular, before released.
[11:20] <smartboyhw> It's important for me that we maintain a nice quality and well designed
[11:20] <smartboyhw> products.
[11:20] <smartboyhw> I think I would rather write a proposal on that:P
[11:22] <xequence> There are currently only three people involved in the webshop
[11:22] <xequence> me, madeinkobaia and ttoine - who runs it
[11:23] <smartboyhw> xequence, yep:)
[11:23] <xequence> Pretty much everything needs to go through me, but if there is a good routine in place, I can just trust the people who are working on it
[11:23] <smartboyhw> I think though, we should be able to get it out soon
[11:23] <smartboyhw> ttoine, do respond to the mail:)
[11:24] <smartboyhw> I do have the question in mind of who gets the money of the profits generated by the product sales
[11:24] <smartboyhw> I really don't know
[11:24] <smartboyhw> xequence, are you in your home while taking the photo?
[11:28] <xequence> my sisters place here in Switzerland
[11:29] <xequence> smartboyhw: We are on top of the problems surrounding the webshop. If you have questions aside from those presented in my email, please answer it
[11:30] <xequence> smartboyhw: Otherwise, as I've suggested to you many times. Find something to work on, and do your best to do that work well
[11:30] <smartboyhw> xequence, ?
[11:31] <xequence> smartboyhw: you are a member of many teams, but you spend most of the time jumping into all sorts of discussions
[11:31] <xequence> you are 14 years old, right?
[11:32] <xequence> it would be good if you take some time to think about the difference in age and experience you have
[11:32] <smartboyhw> xequence, 15 now, actually
[11:32] <xequence> and act according to your age a bit more
[11:32] <xequence> if you want to help, please do
[11:32] <xequence> but, find something to work on
[11:33] <smartboyhw> xequence, um, what are YOU expecting as to "act according to my age"？
[11:33] <smartboyhw> From my parent's perspective, it's study... study... study...
[11:33] <xequence> for one thing, dont start arguing with people here for no reason
[11:34] <smartboyhw> xequence, I don't start arguing here with no reason
[11:36] <xequence> Negating foolishly is one type of arguing
[11:36] <xequence> What we do here is try to improve multimedia for Debian/UBuntu
[11:38] <xequence> It is good to keep that in mind in every situation and try not to spend energy on unimportant details
[11:43] <cub> smartboyhw, I asked ttoine about the prices and possible earnings from the shop. There won't be any earnings, which was also part of the licencing IIRC
[11:47] <cub> xequence, the Settings -> Main Menu managed to change in the custom menus as well, just tested on my 13.04.
[12:00] <xequence> cub: Cool. I assume thats the original menu?
[12:00] <xequence> meaning, you didnt add what Len has been working on during saucy
[12:01] <cub> No this is my test VM for 13.04. Just ordinary apt-get updates done on it
[12:01] <smartboyhw> xequence, OK so if you want me to find something to work on, give me a list at least...
[12:01] <smartboyhw> cub, great:)
[12:01] <cub> Since I run a Mac at work I installed a VM to be able to check ubuntuforms stuff while at work. Since that's my best contributions so far . :P
[12:03] <xequence> smartboyhw: linux-rt, testing documentation, developing ubuntustudio-controls, look at the packages we have in the repo and clean out those we dont use (ubuntustudio-sounds)
[12:03] <smartboyhw> xequence, actually, I do want to do linux-rt:)
[12:03] <smartboyhw> Maybe I should play with it
[12:04] <xequence> I cant promise you will be the one who uploads it, but if you do the work, I'll make sure to give you the credit for it
[12:04] <smartboyhw> xequence, here's the problem: I do remember compiling the 3.10 -rt patch failed for me;P
[12:05] <xequence> smartboyhw: you'll need to do it the ubuntu way
[12:05] <xequence> using dpkg tools
[12:05] <smartboyhw> xequence, any docs?
[12:06] <xequence> smartboyhw: use linux-lowlatency as an example. Create a debian.rt flavor
[12:06] <smartboyhw> xequence, sure, where's your saucy linux-lowlatency git code?
[12:06]  * smartboyhw thinks that is more convenient 
[12:06] <xequence> I dont have it myself yet
[12:07] <smartboyhw> xequence, uh oh, apw doesn't have the saucy code online
[12:07] <smartboyhw> :(
[12:08] <xequence> hmm, doesn't seem like apw has it up either
[12:08] <smartboyhw> Damn:P
[12:08] <xequence> you can get the source with apt-get or pull-lp-source though
[12:08] <smartboyhw> xequence, yeah
[12:08] <xequence> you can then make it a git repo if you want
[12:08]  * smartboyhw goes ask in #ubuntu-kernel to get apw make a git repo for -lowlatency
[12:09] <xequence> smartboyhw: no
[12:09] <smartboyhw> xequence, oh?
[12:09] <smartboyhw> saucy I mean...
[12:09] <xequence> smartboyhw: I'll be taking over the development repo soon enough
[12:09] <smartboyhw> xequence, OK, /me parts #ubuntu-kernel
[12:10] <xequence> Making a git repo is good if you want to keep track of your commits
[12:10]  * smartboyhw likes vcs :)
[12:10] <smartboyhw> Uh, but cloning the vanilla Ubuntu kernel git code takes a lot of time...
[12:14] <smartboyhw> xequence, saucy will probably include the 3.11 kernel, so we will only be shipping 3.10 if we want -rt...
[12:14] <smartboyhw> Fortunately, that will not happen for 14.04 LTS:P
[12:15] <xequence> I was thinking we add the rt kernel for 14.04, so no hurry
[12:15] <xequence> but its good if we can build it soon
[12:16] <smartboyhw> xequence, sure thing:)
[12:17] <ttoine> cub, smartboyhw I confirm: no benefit at all with the current licence.
[12:18] <smartboyhw> ttoine, yeah....
[12:18] <ttoine> zequence, when will we speak about the shop ?
[12:18] <smartboyhw> ttoine, please ping xequence now:)
[12:18] <ttoine> who is xequence ?
[12:18] <smartboyhw> xequence, = zequence 
[12:18] <smartboyhw> In debconf
[12:18] <xequence> ttoine: I'm not at home right now, an cant login to my server at home
[12:18] <ttoine> definitive ?
[12:19] <xequence> ttoine: I wrote an email on the list. Did you read it?
[12:19] <ttoine> xequence, ok.
[12:19] <ttoine> no, I didn't see this email. but I was thinking more about anouncement on the blog and social networks
[12:19] <ttoine> and a link on our website menu
[12:20] <xequence> ttoine: Yes, but I think there are a few details Id like to go through first
[12:20] <ttoine> yes ?
[12:21] <xequence> Basically, as I wrote in the email, I would like it if you could sum up the legal details, so I can use that as reference
[12:21] <xequence> and, I'd like to look at what more we can do for the webshop. To design it
[12:22] <xequence> We should settle for something, and the run with it
[12:22] <xequence> at least until 14.04
[12:22] <xequence> and changes for products should always go trough me and madeinkobaia. 
[12:22] <xequence> before making them available, that is
[12:22] <ttoine> to design it ?? we can't design a lot of stuff in spreadshirt...
[12:23] <xequence> Well, maybe I should create my own account there, so I can see how it works
[12:24] <ttoine> xequence, I won't create new available stuff, but I will continue to play with spreadshirt and see how we can create more stuff
[12:24] <ttoine> the next step is to add vectorial stuff for embrodery, I am on the way for that (baseball cap, polo, etc...)
[12:25] <ttoine> xequence, why wait until 14.04 ???
[12:25] <xequence> I meant about the look of the webshop
[12:25] <ttoine> xequence, there is 5 themes
[12:25] <xequence> and some art will only be available after 14.04
[12:25] <xequence> 5 themes, nothing more?
[12:25] <ttoine> the other way is to insert it to our website through iframe code
[12:25] <cub> "you can get any colour you like, as long as it's black."
[12:26] <ttoine> xequence, something like that. Not a lot of option. Otherwise we have to pay 60 € per year to become a premium partner
[12:26] <ttoine> cub, for shirt
[12:26] <ttoine> not for the shop
[12:27] <xequence> ttoine: I see.
[12:27] <xequence> ttoine: Could you send me the iframe code by email? I'll try playing with that while making the page for the webshop.
[12:29] <ttoine> xequence, cub http://i.imgur.com/BIwodSi.png
[12:29] <cub> xequence, that reminds me, have you heard anything from nick on the progress with the wordpress stuff?
[12:29] <ttoine> here is the look and feel options
[12:29] <xequence> cub: No. He kind of disappeared
[12:30] <cub> Oh ttoine there seems to be baby clothes in the shop? My daughter wants one, I'm sure. :D
[12:30] <ttoine> you select a theme, and then you can change some stuff
[12:31] <ttoine> xequence, So at the moment, the work I did is useless
[12:31] <cub> mhm they would want to keep some features and design for the premium partners.
[12:31] <ttoine> the same for the work of madeinkobia
[12:32] <ttoine> cub, yes
[12:33] <xequence> ttoine: What do you mean by useless?
[12:33] <ttoine> if it is confidential for 9 monthes...
[12:34] <ttoine> it means that for 14.04 you may want to produce new artwork and stuff
[12:34] <ttoine> I think we should launch the shop now
[12:34] <ttoine> and get feedback
[12:34] <xequence> ttoine: For 14.04, we will have new artork that is specific to that release. Doesn't mean we will be cancelling what we did now
[12:34] <xequence> ttoine: the time it takes is not up to me
[12:34] <xequence> it takes the time it takes
[12:35] <xequence> the important thing is that the work is good
[12:35] <xequence> we are all busy
[12:35] <xequence> no reason to be in a hurry
[12:35] <ttoine> but you think the work is not good enough at the moment ?
[12:35] <xequence> it takes you many months to get something done, then you expect everyone else should be lightning fast
[12:35] <cub> Aren't you kind of in agreement? Launch a shop now with the designs that is in there. Then a overhaul in time for 14.04?
[12:35] <xequence> please
[12:36] <xequence> lets just take the time we need
[12:36] <ttoine> xequence, what does it miss ? I can't understand why we need more time ?
[12:36] <ttoine> it is online, we have nice stuff available
[12:37] <xequence> ttoine: So, I should just post a link at our website and we are all done?
[12:37] <xequence> ttoine: did you read my email yet?
[12:38] <xequence> ttoine: Lets just work together, ok?
[12:38] <xequence> preparing the art for the t-shirts was not easy
[12:39] <xequence> some things take time
[12:39] <xequence> we waited for you for two months
[12:39] <xequence> but, theres no hurry after all
[12:44] <cub> xequence, about the accessibility things, I suppose I need to have something done before the 22nd of Aug, feature freeze?
[12:45] <xequence> cub: Yes. That's really the date when all our changes should be done. After that, we only fix bugs, if any are found
[12:47] <xequence> I can't get the code to ubuntustudio-controls
[12:47] <ttoine> xequence, watch your mails
[12:47] <xequence> If anyone wants to try, its: bzr branch lp:ubuntustudio-controls
[12:47] <smartboyhw> xequence, why you can't get?
[12:48] <ttoine> xequence, actually, If I would have the artwork before summer, I could have open the shop earlier. in June and July, I had no time.
[12:49] <xequence> ttoine: I'm not a magician, neither is madeinkoabia
[12:49] <smartboyhw> xequence, I can get the code here I think...
[12:49] <xequence> ttoine: We just have to work with what we have
[12:49] <ttoine> xequence, me too
[12:49] <ttoine> I know that
[12:49] <xequence> ttoine: Thanks for the email. Very informative
[12:49] <ttoine> xequence, all that is in the email was already discussed on this channel, it is just a summary ;-)
[12:50] <xequence> ttoine: Its better you sum it up, who have the details. I would never have remembered that your name was involved, for instance
[12:51] <ttoine> xequence, it is just that I am involved in Ubuntu Studio for a long time now. And sometime it is frustrating to see how long it takes to get things done...
[12:51] <ttoine> they just need a legal contact
[12:51] <smartboyhw> That's because we are a small team I think, and we all have our lifes *sigh*
[12:52] <xequence> smartboyhw: YOu had no problems getting the source?
[12:52] <ttoine> by the way, it means that if we do something bad with the licence, I am the legal contact, so please, don't play ;-)
[12:52] <smartboyhw> xequence, well at least gitting the source isn't a good idea;P I ran apt-get source instead
[12:53] <xequence> I need to be able to upload to the branch as well
[12:53] <xequence> seems like there's a LP bug
[12:53] <smartboyhw> xequence, or you mean ubuntustudio-controls?
[12:53] <smartboyhw> I thought xequence is talking about linux:P
[12:54]  * cub thinks the new theme on the spreadshirt site looks better.
[12:54] <smartboyhw> xequence, hmm I can't branch it
[12:54] <smartboyhw> It seems stuck in the midle
[12:54] <smartboyhw> *middle
[12:56] <xequence> yes
[12:56] <xequence> Ill file a bug
[12:56] <xequence> ü0p9o7gz65teqayqawertzpü$
[12:56] <smartboyhw> xequence, !?
[12:56] <xequence> just cleaning my keyboard :D
[12:56] <smartboyhw> xequence, LOl
[12:56] <knome> that looked like a secure password though
[12:58] <smartboyhw> knome, +1 
[12:58] <DarkEra> lol, yeah it did
[13:01] <ttoine> knome, +1
[13:01] <knome> wonder if pwgen could produce characters with accents
[13:06] <xequence> knome: You mean like, with a French accent (jk)?
[13:07] <knome> xequence, yes ;)
[13:07] <smartboyhw> good jk
[13:08] <xequence> Finnish accent is like a bad speech synthesizer that speaks all the letters as they are
[13:08] <xequence> so, basically, accentless
[13:08] <knome> hehe
[13:11] <xequence> Found a nice example of an indicator app that also works for gnome (gir)
[13:12] <xequence> going to try to hack something up before feature freeze, for ubuntustudio-controls
[13:53] <xequence> smartboyhw: would you mind confirming the bug LP: #1211317
[13:54]  * smartboyhw confirms
[13:54] <xequence> smartboyhw: Thanks
[13:55] <cub> Hmm does Ubuntu Studio run on Apple macbooks?
[13:55] <smartboyhw> cub, no.
[13:56] <xequence> smartboyhw: Why do you say that?
[13:56] <smartboyhw> xequence, maybe yes...
[13:57] <smartboyhw> But we don't provide images do we?
[13:57] <xequence> cub: It's been a while since I tried it. Have never installed, but live images used to work in the past without problems
[13:57] <xequence> smartboyhw: We don't provice Mac specific images no.
[13:58] <smartboyhw> You can install through pat-get
[13:58] <smartboyhw> *apt-get
[13:58] <smartboyhw> But no images:P
[13:58] <cub> I have to try that. I stumbled across a questions about it on askubuntu and got curious. A collegue is running Fedora on his Macbook here.
[13:59] <xequence> cub: I installed debian on a ibook without problems. But that's powerpc
[14:00] <cub> sure I installed Debian recently on my ancient iMac
[14:00] <xequence> Maybe there's something specific about the booting?
[14:00] <cub> but it would be cool to dual boot US at work and shut down the "Fedora rules" arguments at work. ;)
[14:01] <xequence> EFI instead of BIOS
[14:01] <cub> I'll bring a USB stick tomorrow.
[14:01] <xequence> cub: Try installing onto usb stick first
[14:01] <xequence> that way you wont mess anything up
[14:02] <xequence> or a separate usb drive
[14:02] <cub> yeah, that's how he's running Fedora at the moment.
[14:02] <cub> but they recommend usb3
[14:02] <xequence> but, make sure to install GRUB onto the right harddrive
[14:02] <xequence> usb3 is much faster of course
[14:02] <cub> my macbook is too old for that.
[14:03] <xequence> its just loading time that is slower
[14:03] <xequence> apps are just as fast otherwise
[14:04] <xequence> applications are loaded into RAM, and as long as you arent writing to disk at 100% capacity, its just RAM and CPU working while you use the app
[14:05] <xequence> HCS+ is not writable to my knowledge
[14:05] <xequence> only readable
[14:05] <xequence> the MAC file system with journaling enabled
[14:05] <cub> Mostly web based systems here so
[14:06] <xequence> There's a bunch of developers her gathered around a round table, standing. Writing git stuff on a big card board
[14:07] <xequence> They've been at it for about two hours now
[14:07] <cub> :d
[14:08] <xequence> I got the indicator working with our logo and everything. Working in Gnome3. Nothing more then a menu of starters for now, but that will have to do, if I dont have time for anything else
[14:08] <xequence> should work on all DEs
[14:09] <xequence> Poettering is having a talk about systemd in 20 minutes
[14:09] <xequence> that should be fun
[14:10] <cub> define fun? ;)
[14:10] <cub> Have you got a screenshot of the indicator?
[14:11] <xequence> cub: It'll be fun if opinions are apart, which they should be
[14:11] <xequence> well, seem to be anyway
[14:12] <xequence> !paste
[14:14] <xequence> http://imagebin.org/267278
[14:14] <cub> ooh nice
[14:15] <xequence> need to save batteries. bbl
[14:31] <xequence> OvenWerks: I was just trying ubuntustudio-installer. I'm on precise, so not the best way to test, but - starting with the desktop file opens a terminal when you run it
[14:32] <xequence> OvenWerks: Starting from the terminal does not show any options to install
[14:32] <xequence> OvenWerks: Is this only me?
[14:33] <xequence> OvenWerks: I'm about to rewrite ubuntustudio-controls from scratch, making it an indicator app, with a starter for ubuntustudio-installer among other things
[14:39] <xequence> So, that's why I was interested in seeing how to start ubuntustudio-installer
[15:16] <smartboyhw> xequence, if you want updates on the -rt work, check out https://github.com/smartboyhw/ubuntu-saucy-rt
[17:47] <xequence> Apparently edubuntu has a lot common with us, on not being desktop orientated
[17:50] <xequence> It's too late in the game to start changing our desktop. But, for 14.04, we should prepare this stuff
[22:21] <OvenWerks> zequence: been away for a bit will back track and answer some questions in a bit.