=== _salem is now known as salem_ [03:12] balloons: poke... right in the left rib..... === salem_ is now known as _salem === forestpiskie is now known as Guest28422 === Guest28422 is now known as forestpiskie [07:04] morning all [07:07] afternoon DanChapman [07:08] morning DanChapman [08:51] good morning [08:52] slickymaster, morning :-) [08:52] DanChapman: hello Dan [08:55] elfy: ping. Are you there? === lderan_ is now known as lderan [12:07] hi slickymaster [12:15] balloons! [12:17] balloons, stgraber: re: the bug about testcases being archived while they shouldn't... i enabled one of them in the *other* testsuite (where we actually want them to be disabled), and it's unarchived again for the testsuite where we *want* them to be enabled === _salem is now known as salem_ [12:22] stgraber, balloons: bug 1211746 [12:22] bug 1211746 in Ubuntu QA Website "Disabling a testcase in one testsuite marks it as archived on other testsuites as well" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1211746 [12:23] knome: oops, sounds like buggy SQL, I'll fix that once I'm done travelling and attending conferences [12:24] stgraber, thanks :) the workaround is giving me all admin rights to the tracker, which would probably be a good idea anyway, if doable :) [13:24] balloons, gedit is ready for a review again when you get a chance :-) [14:46] DanChapman, got it :-) [14:46] knome, ty for solving the mystery [14:47] balloons, no problem. seriously, would you approve me to get the admin access? [14:47] balloons, I would go get a coffee if you run it lol lasts like 15 mins [14:47] DanChapman, noted :-) [14:48] knome, having an additional admin wouldn't be the worst idea [14:48] balloons, if you need me to take action regarding that, just tell me to; if not, thanks :) [14:54] Hey balloons how are you? [14:55] knome, yes stgraber holds the keys to the acls, not I. [14:55] balloons, shall i ask him? [14:56] knome, I think you did :-) [14:56] smartboyhw, good, yourself? [14:56] balloons, great, just finished my piano exam today [14:56] balloons, sure, but not by your approval, if you see how that makes a difference :) [14:57] balloons is the "QA messiah" [14:57] And knome is the "flavour QA messiah" [14:57] How does that make it? [14:57] smartboyhw, ohh piano, nice. Do you enjoy playing? [14:57] balloons, yep [14:57] heh, i played the piano for 6 years, but i'm pretty bad at it [14:58] knome, at what grade are you? [14:58] smartboyhw, none :) [14:58] i said i'm pretty bad at it! [14:58] knome, lolololololololololololololololololololololol [14:58] i mean i was like 6 when i started, and 12ish when i stopped the lessons [14:58] knome, oh:( [14:59] * smartboyhw has learnt it for 9 years now。。。 [14:59] and the studying atmosphere isn't quite as it is in asia here [14:59] knome, +1 [14:59] In Asia, either you study hard or you suck:P [14:59] i.e. no jobs, no university, etc. [15:00] fortunately, it's not quite the same here regarding that eitehr :P [15:01] Heh [15:01] knome, if you became an admin, expect me to ping you a lot:P [15:01] remind you, i'm good at ignoring [15:01] knome, boo [15:02] smartboyhw, what grade are you in piano? I too played but only as a reference point for music instruction. I remember not having the hand dexterity to do very well. [15:02] balloons, eh, finished my Grade 8. [15:03] thought I'd joined ##randomnessftw [15:04] During one of my exams I had to play a piece, and the second half was in a different key. So I stopped, slid up the bench and kept playing.. my litle piano teacher was llike 5 ft tall if that with tiny hands. She told me if she could reach and play it, I shouldn't need to move either. I still could hardly reach an octave of keys [15:04] elfy, no, just #ubuntu-"quality"-discussions [15:04] elfy, LOL [15:04] :) [15:04] #randomness for the morning [15:05] elfy, it's good to be random some times;P [15:05] I'm never random ... [15:05] * smartboyhw hacks into elfy's brain and adds a random C++ code [15:06] * elfy hacked into his brain sometime in the early 80s - you are way too late [15:06] on that note, I'm going to start the gedit tests [15:07] lol [15:07] balloons, what sort of new QA projects are you having in your brain? [15:07] smartboyhw, stuff with manual testing. [15:07] and testdrive :-) [15:08] balloons, that's not NEW... [15:08] balloons, hack, we failed:( [15:08] hardly, lots of good setup came out of it.. but moving on, new stuff is click packages [15:08] balloons, \o/ [15:08] you know about click packages a little right? [15:08] balloons, yep, sort of, you want to develop autopkgtest for it or? [15:09] we need to migrate to using it, but it breaks our automated test running abilities [15:09] balloons, yeah:( [15:10] balloons, so what are you going to do? [15:10] well, apparently be the guinea pig or lab rat if you will and test out the ideas they have to fix the issue [15:11] * smartboyhw likes being in the lab, either being the guinea pig or the lab rat or the scientist:P [15:11] balloons, ^ [15:11] smartboyhw, yes it is the best part about qa isn't it? [15:11] balloons, \o/ [15:15] ;-( my xephyr window doesn't seem to like me today [15:15] balloons, LOL [15:22] tumbling up and down [15:22] yea for working now.. apparently I just need to run the autopilot bit outside xephyr [15:23] elfy, wasn't able to see if you can, or not, spare a few minutes [15:23] I'm about slickymaster [15:24] elfy, the reason I've pinged you this morning was about the assistive technologies testcase [15:24] yep [15:24] seen it [15:25] elfy, mainly because I wasn't sure if you guys were aware that part of it already was in the settings manager testcase [15:25] no I wasn't [15:26] but it wasn't tagged xubuntu either - which is why I didn't know about it [15:26] elfy, I thought so, [15:26] balloons, so, how to be the guinea pig? [15:26] so DanChapman shall I place all my thoughts into the review, or do you want them inline here and now? [15:27] elfy, well, I've done it anyway and at least now it has its own testcase [15:27] yep - all merged and testcase sorted too :) [15:27] elfy, that's about it, just wanted to check it with you [15:28] okey doke [15:28] how have you been anyway slickymaster ? [15:28] elfy, dying while I wait for the 23rd [15:28] holidays? [15:29] elfy, vacations expecting me [15:29] balloons, either im not fussy :-) [15:29] slickymaster: not long now :) [15:29] elfy, yes. time to pick up my board and surf all day long, for three entire weeks [15:29] elfy: it seems light years away [15:30] elfy, the best part is that my kid can,'t hardly wait to do it, also [15:31] cool [15:31] elfy, I just hope I can manage to get xubuntu documentation all translated into portuguese before that [15:32] good lord - on your own? [15:32] slickymaster, NEVER translate a single documentation on your own:P [15:32] elfy, well, no one else seems to be working on it [15:32] Collabarate is a better idea [15:33] slickymaster: I would if it needs translating into english for the portuguese :) [15:33] I should get my mate to do it for Gallego lol [15:33] smartboyhw: collaboration's great if people join in [15:34] slickymaster, have you asked the team yet? [15:34] I mean, the pt translation team [15:34] smartboyhw: bad timing smartboyhw, I've already translated Mugshot and TestDrive, alone [15:34] slickymaster, eh... [15:34] slickymaster, you'd better get a team member review your translations.. [15:34] smartboyhw: they've been quite for a while [15:36] slickymaster, ? [15:36] smartboyhw: yes [15:36] quiet smartboyhw [15:36] ? [15:36] elfy, ??????????? [15:36] or rather smartboyhw - quiet not quite [15:36] elfy: thanks [15:37] smartboyhw: I meant quiet, but the fingers didn't type what the brain told them to [15:37] slickymaster, elfy ah ..... [15:37] Hmm, so you did contact them right? [15:37] In that case, high time to plan some activities in LoCo to get them translated:P [15:38] smartboyhw: yes, that's a good idea [15:40] smartboyhw: anyway I'm translating it in Rosetta, so it's kind of a work in progress, open to be worked and reviewed [15:40] slickymaster, but most people here don't know Portugese:P [15:41] smartboyhw: I meant for the members of the pt translators :) [15:41] slickymaster, :) [15:42] smartboyhw: and I suspect elfy can scratch a few words in northern spanish, which is very similar [15:42] :) [15:43] * smartboyhw didn't realize elfy knows Spanish [15:43] DanChapman, I had a few errors I was re-running to see if they would work [15:43] and I had to reboot my box :-) [15:43] balloons, oh which ones? :-) [15:45] DanChapman, lol, silly me I rebooted and lost the full detail. But, I remember test_save_and_open_a_file [15:47] which is confusing because it doesn't exist.. I suspected the merge didn't go as I thought [15:47] balloons, do you mean test_save_file_type as save and open are seperate tests [15:47] I also wanted to re-run for that reason :-) [15:47] no DanChapman that exact test [15:47] oh there aint a test called that lol [15:47] I had a feeling some of my old hackery merged in when I merged the branch [15:48] lol :-) [15:49] ok, trying xephyr again [15:51] * smartboyhw is trying out the terminal amuttp/temp-dir [15:51] touch/tm/temp-dir/a [15:51] touch /tmp/temp-/c [15:51] mkdir/tmp/temp-dir2 [15:52] Sorry for that lol [15:52] I was trying the terminal autopilot test [15:53] And found out that I can't escape it:*( [15:54] smartboyhw, lol done that many times forget i started it and end up with bugs in my test where ap has typed and i didnt notice :-D [15:54] lol [15:55] that's the whole idea of running them in xephyr.. it's in own caged onscreen xserver and you can use your pc while it does it's business.. [15:55] * DanChapman goes to look into xephyr [15:56] Try this: sudo apt-get install xserver-xephyr, Xephyr -ac -br -noreset -screen 800x600 :1, DISPLAY=:1.0, autopilot run terminal [15:57] it seemingly doesn't need anything special to run.. so no window decorations required.. I went back and forth on running something like fluxbox or openbox in there [15:57] balloons, E: Command line option ‘r’ [from -br] is not known [16:02] ohh? it's not important [16:03] got it going does it take ages for the test to start? [16:03] DanChapman, yea, things seem a bit funny running it in there [16:05] I've been playing with it to see if it can meet our needs.. I'm not sure what the long pauses are caused by [16:08] ohh, 1024x768 might be a better size.. the file open dialog gets big ;-) [16:11] far two slow for my liking :-) [16:11] to [16:11] *too [16:12] I agree, a pure vm works better.. I want it to work somehow, but at least you know about it now ;-) [16:12] its my fat fingers :-) [16:13] I'm running the full gedit test in it now, we'll see how long it takes and if it works or not [16:32] balloons, still running? [16:32] DanChapman, yea, haha [16:32] ouch! [16:52] still running [16:52] lol thats gotta be near on an hour now [16:53] yea, I've been in a meetin', but I'm swapping it over to a vm [16:57] and we're running in a vm now.. I'm guessing it will beat the xephyr run :-) [16:57] should hope so :-D [16:59] anyways on the code itself, I'm intrigued.. you've done a lot of nice work, and it makes me think of having an emulator for gtk apps [17:03] I will say this is interesting: GeditTerminalTests [17:04] balloons, an emulator would be pretty cool. But don't the class names have to match the object name? [17:04] perhaps it would be better to just use typical command line to launch the application with arguments, rather than the terminal [17:04] balloons, yeah i like that one [17:05] Ok easy enough to change [17:05] It's cool that you've done the work to test both.. and to be fair, it's closer to how a user would launch. But I'm concerned about that undirected typing [17:05] we know what happens ;-) [17:05] that said, when there are points you want to check interactions like this, where does it go? in the gedit test or the terminal test? [17:07] both i would say. [17:09] DanChapman, re:emulator, what do you mean the class names must match objectNames? [17:09] the two tests in GeditTermTests will need breaking out to seperate test classes to be able to launch frm cmd line instead of using terminal [17:11] DanChapman, testing command line options could prove interesting, heh, there's many options [17:12] block processblock process [17:13] I suppose only --new-document and --new-window would be interesting in addition to the files tests you have [17:14] I havn't really looked into them so i maybe wrong but if i remember right the docs said emulater names should be that of the object i.e GtkWindow. But the names aren't the same across apps [17:14] DanChapman, my only other comment on the code is are we able to assert focus before typing? does gtk give us such a property? [17:14] yeah that would be cool [17:14] focus of? [17:14] the textbuffer for intstance [17:15] DanChapman, ahh I gotcha.. yea, the diversity might limit how useful it could be.. but there are definitely things you've done in here that would help other tests, that's the hard bit [17:16] re-using that code easily [17:17] sometimes there is an is_focus property but sometimes it stays at 0. let me just check gedit [17:17] aww, xephyr tests finished and vm is finished.. not sure which one "won" [17:17] Ran 63 tests in 4388.826s [17:17] Ran 63 tests in 813.501s [17:18] I know part of the trouble with gtk stuff is that the properties didn't update.. I assumed gtk issues, but we could blame autopilot I suppose :-p [17:18] well I say seemingly didn't update.. [17:19] so that's it.. they all pass, the test layout looks great and very well thought out [17:19] I think that's all my comments [17:19] I agree, this can do a lot more than what's in there right now [17:21] there is an is_focus property available for the buffer so i will get that in there [17:22] good evening [17:22] dkessel, evening [17:22] can i have a look at what you guys are talking about? this sounds interesting [17:23] dkessel, DanChapman I think can now be crowned the gtk autopilot test master.. he's producing some nice stuff :-) [17:24] dkessel, we spoke a little of using xephyr.. that experiment failed as too slow and inconsistent. After that we spoke about DanChapman [17:24] balloons, cheers for the list i'll get that implemented [17:24] where's that branch? :) [17:24] 's gedit test. Here's the merge proposal: https://code.launchpad.net/~dpniel/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/gedit/+merge/178280 [17:24] dkessel, lp:~dpniel/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/gedit [17:33] wow, so much stuff. and it even has some nice error messages with possible causes for the test failure... [17:34] dkessel, yeah i noticed in the testtools docs that assertThat has an extra param to display friendly messages :-D [17:35] DanChapman, why? "assertion failed" is not nice enough for you to understand the failure? ;D [17:41] dkessel, lol its nice enough for me but i wrote the test so i know the steps. It just looks nicer anyway saying 'Dialog didn't open' instead of assertion error 0 != 1. [17:41] DanChapman, yup :) [17:43] * dkessel always hates when tests at his workplace break and just say "AssertionFailedError" ("Expected 10, but got 1" is not much better either) [17:44] :-) [17:49] DanChapman, dkessel :-) Indeed, it's a nice little trick worth employing [18:06] balloons, it would be cool to have a script like the ubiquity-runner to run autopilot tests but I don't know enough about bash to see if it can be modified to work for other tests [18:08] DanChapman, what do you mean? [18:13] balloons, lp:~jibel/+junk/ubiquity-autopilot-runner basically it creates a clean vm from an iso pulls the test branch and runs it although it does some extra bits to be able to run ubiquity. the xephyr thing got me thinking and that runner works pretty well [18:14] DanChapman, OHHH.. I gotcha. Yes, you could indeed run that locally on say the whole test suite, just like in jenkins [18:14] I don't see why not [18:56] right calling it a day folks. balloons have pushed the changes for is_focus and changed the terminal tests will work on --new-doc and window in the morning [18:56] DanChapman, woot.. tomorrow sounds like merge day for it then [18:57] sounds good to me :-) [19:04] balloons: what's up? [19:05] m-b-o, guten tag [19:05] :) [19:05] no smoke tests for the weather app, somethings really broken? [19:05] m-b-o, wie sagt man "the sky"? [19:06] hehe.. the smoke tests are still running, there was some issues this morning with the builds [19:06] der himmel? [19:06] balloons: haha ;) [19:07] m-b-o, danke. so, der himmel [19:08] anyways, I'm curious as ever to see the weather app output [19:08] yesterday it showed network issues, and also the tab switching was infinite looping. I disabled that test, you might have seen [19:09] it's a bug in the emulator (the looping), but why it's not finding the tab to switch to is troubling, hence I opened a bug against weather app too [19:09] is it still that "percentage-from-the-left" thing? [19:10] no, not at all.. the tabs are selected much more sanely now :-) [19:10] I had this bug alawys, when I've tried to get from the last tab back to the first [19:11] as the first tab is attached at the end [19:11] hmm, care to add some comments to the bugs? [19:11] it very well could be an underlying emulator issue [19:11] I mean completely [19:12] balloons: I think so :) [19:12] elopio, you about? [19:18] ballons: I guess the index of the attached first tab (after the last) is not right. [19:18] m-b-o, chatting about weather in #ubuntu-touch [19:23] balloons, Hello [19:48] is anyone else still having issues with usb-creator and unetbootin? [19:54] phillw: not with unetbootin but I have nothing but trouble with usb-creator [19:55] * elfy is glad we don't have it as a default [19:56] elfy: I have recently found :Usb creator For anyone having problems with the startup disk creator / unetbootin / casper (casper is the bit / system that adds persistency to your usb device), you could do worse than grab the deb version of live-usb-install. I tried it tonight with 13.10 and went without a hitch. It's available fromhttp://live.learnfree.eu/download that page also has further details on it. For lubuntu users, download the [19:56] it seems to work well :D [19:57] I never use it phillw [19:58] I do, for my 'ubuntu on a stick' :D [20:00] :) [20:01] Letozaf_, hello [20:02] ooh, sweet, they even ask for us to suggest adding new versions to the database! I've just asked that 13.10 be added :) [20:03] balloons, for the calendar app test, if I add eventually to the two lines you suggested, I get this error: TypeError: Eventually is only usable with attributes that have a wait_for function or callable objects [20:05] Letozaf_, ahh yes [20:05] just add lambda: to the front [20:05] balloons, ok thanks [20:06] or depending on if you need the variable or not, you can remove the parathesis from the call and use the function directly [20:06] confusing perhaps [20:09] balloons, I will try both and see what happens :) [20:09] Letozaf_, as in. [20:09] blah = function() [20:09] instead can be blah = function [20:09] then it will allow use of eventually.. or even just [20:10] assertThat(function, eventually()) [20:10] balloons, ok understood :) [20:10] :-) whew, good [20:11] balloons, :p [20:12] ooh, there's a new version... just grabbing :) [20:22] balloons, done ! it worked putting lambda to the front :) [20:22] :-) [20:28] hi guys! does anyone have problems with testdrive-gtk? [20:29] SergioMeneses, I used it just today [20:29] SergioMeneses, so I would say no [20:29] for me :-) [20:30] balloons, I'm trying to open it but doesnt work [20:30] let me try by console [20:33] balloons, look: ERROR:gtkpreferences:Could not obtain the Ubuntu ISO list from rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage... [20:34] SergioMeneses, Noskcaj might be able to tell you more, but try moving or deleting the .testdrive folder [20:34] I would move it first in case it doesn't change anything and you want your cached images :-) [20:35] SergioMeneses, that said, it sounds like a network error [20:35] balloons, I have the same feeling [20:35] is the app not handling missing the list very well? [20:36] balloons, it's rare because I can open the link correctly http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ === hobgoblin is now known as elfy [20:46] weird [21:35] balloons, it was a network issue apparently [21:35] as you said [21:36] nice === salem_ is now known as _salem [22:19] balloons: I'm here. [22:19] elopio, I opened a bug on tab switching, it will loop forever [22:22] balloons: can I get the number please? [22:22] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1211619 [22:22] Launchpad bug 1211619 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "Autopilot emulator can loop infinitely while searching for tab" [Undecided,New] [22:23] elopio, ^^ [22:24] balloons: cool. I'll look into the weather app. [22:24] thanks!@ [22:37] balloons: do you have the test that causes the loop? [22:37] elopio, yes, branch weather app. it's disabled and has a note on it [22:37] in the test_mainview.py [22:41] balloons: it didn't loop here. [22:42] does it happen on your machine? === infinity2 is now known as infinity [22:50] elopio, no.. but it happens in the smoke testing [22:50] see the runs from august 11th [22:51] elopio, so there's 2 issues. One, we should add a control onto that while loop to stop after we've gone through every tab once [22:51] 2, figure out why for some reason we don't get to a certain tab [22:52] balloons: the thing is that the only way to know if we have gone through all the tabs is to get the number of tabs [22:53] elopio, sure.. so get the number of tabs and don't loop more than the number? [22:53] and if the number of tabs is correct, we should never loop. [22:53] if the number of tabs is incorrect, nothing will work. [22:53] well, I would say a hard limit on the tabs as well then [22:54] balloons: I will limit the number of switches. But I'm more interested in understanding why it fails. [22:54] also, I have no idea how to see the smoke testing runs of the 11th :) [22:54] elopio, right :-) The limit just prevents the horrible loop :-) [22:55] one sec, I'll link you [22:57] elopio, this is weird actually. [22:57] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/image/3469/ubuntu-weather-app-autopilot/255413/ [22:57] that was from the 11th.. and it worked? [22:57] oh, so I was looking at the right place :D [22:57] this is from today, it loops: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/saucy-touch_ro-mako-smoke-ubuntu-weather-app-autopilot/11/console [22:58] balloons: do you keep the videos for that somewhere? [22:58] i have a bug open against weather, as the actual problem I'm not sure lies in the sdk or autopilot [22:58] elopio, no video possible on the devices ;-( [22:58] that makes it hard. We need more loggging for autopilot. [22:59] I'll work on that next week. [22:59] I can try and recreate on the device [22:59] I think they are run with -vv [22:59] if not they should be :-) [23:00] balloons: that would be awesome. I'll be implementing the loop prevention. [23:00] it will be the same, but it won't take 30 minutes to fail. [23:00] exactly, that was my hope [23:02] I can see different coordinates on the desktop. That might be the problem. [23:23] elopio, I have something I'd like your opinion on. What do you think of adding a polling wrapper for select calls, as opposed to using something like self.assertThat(thing, Eventually(Not(Is(None)))) [23:24] i don't like the readability of tests as they are with all those silly asserts, when I already have a function in the emulator for the call. [23:29] balloons: https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/fix1211619-tab_loop/+merge/180018 [23:30] I'm parsing your previous sentences... [23:31] balloons: about that, I think that autopilot should raise and exception when select_single or select_many don't find any object. [23:31] that's what selenium does. [23:31] the most common case is that you will like that scenario to fail. [23:31] elopio, I think I agree. .sorry my sentences were bad but you got it [23:32] if you have a weird case where you just want to probe if the element is there, you can assert that the exception is raised. [23:32] let me show you a branch diff [23:32] elopio: we decided not to do that so it's easier to test whether an object exists or not [23:32] balloons: no, they were fine. It's just that I'm slower in english. [23:32] elopio: in hindsight, it may not have been the correct decision, but we can't change it now [23:32] balloons: for that, on selenium-simple-test we added a element_exists method. [23:32] thomi, hmm [23:33] it returns true or false, doesn't fail. [23:33] elopio: however, it should be trivial to check for None in the emulator [23:33] so I don't think this is a big issue [23:34] lp:~nskaggs/ubuntu-terminal-app/polling-test-idea [23:34] we do it most of the times, I think. For example, on the Tabs: [23:34] assert tabs is not None, _NO_TABS_ERROR [23:35] elopio, thomi see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-terminal-app/polling-test-idea/view/head:/tests/autopilot/ubuntu_terminal_app/emulators.py [23:36] balloons: can't be that done with Eventually? [23:36] I think I like the idea better than all the asserting for none in the test [23:36] ah, that's what you don't like [23:36] sorry. It's not my english that's slow today :) [23:37] haha.. no my explanation was horrible, trust me [23:38] there is a NotEquals matcher in test tools. [23:39] I would prefer we add an IsNot [23:39] self.assertThat([42], Eventually(IsNot([42]))) [23:39] or we can ever do an EventuallyIsNot, if that's so common. [23:39] *even [23:39] eventuallyisnot is pretty common [23:40] so which way do you think is best ? [23:40] EventuallyIsNot = lambda x: Eventually(Not(Is(x))) [23:40] I vote for that. Instead of adding an alternate polling method. [23:41] elopio, this should be easier to see the difference; https://code.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/ubuntu-terminal-app/polling-test-idea/+merge/180020 [23:41] well, we can change the polling method if you wish.. I just don't want to be writing the - self.assertThat(panel_popover, Eventually(NotEquals(None))) lines all the time [23:42] with yours you remove the lambda though [23:42] yea that was silly of me.. many of those did nothing [23:42] balloons: another option would be to add a wait parameter to the select_single [23:42] select_single(blah, wait=True) it will wait until the element is available. [23:43] elopio, as you mentioned changing autopilot would be nice, but if there's no going back, well :-) The easy thing is for us to make a wrapper in the emulator (bring back get_object? shudder) [23:43] elopio, but you see my basic idea of waiting for a function to notequal none [23:43] elopio: you don't need to add the wait parameter - just use the Eventually matcher [23:43] _poll_for_object [23:44] thomi: the wait parameter would be a builtin eventuallyIsNotNone. [23:44] if it's that common, it might be useful. [23:44] elopio: what I'm saying is that we already have that [23:44] balloons: I understand your _poll_for_object. [23:44]