=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away === ivanka__ is now known as ivanka === luke is now known as Guest53494 === Guest53494 is now known as luke__ [08:14] !ping [08:14] pong! [08:15] good morning! [08:15] thought my session had hung [08:15] last update 11:26pm [08:15] morning [08:15] I have a few nickchanges from earlier this morning [08:16] i put those on ignore [08:16] I have joins and parts on ignore, nick changes can be useful sometimes [08:19] http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=51.492159,-0.19092&spn=0.005291,0.013937&sll=51.492140,-0.193028&layer=c&cid=12502927659667388442&panoid=c9UMhWP_MWm9U0L48xEjYw&cbp=13,291.8,,0,18.86&gl=US&t=m&cbll=51.492132,-0.192862&z=17 [08:19] follow the >> arrows... [08:19] mungbean: woo :) [08:20] mungbean: it's bigger on the inside! [08:20] lol [08:29] i always drink my chocolate milk too fast :( [08:29] ouch [08:39] how do i selectively block a user's twitter updates that are getting sent to facebook? [08:40] I think you can't? Except for disabling the auto-forwarding [08:41] it used to be possible to hide eejit@twitter updates selectively [08:42] its possible to choose to unselect games, comments and likes etc, and "other activity" [08:44] good morning everyone, [08:51] heh http://www.shouldireadthedailymail.com/ [08:58] Good morning all, happy Soyuz TM-25 landing day! [08:59] JamesTait: Not TM-34? [09:00] MartijnVdS, not according to Wikipedia. That landed on November 10th, apparently. [09:01] JamesTait: but they're more Ubuntu-relevant [09:01] s/they're/that one is [09:02] What is this relevance of which you speak? [09:02] mir? [09:02] No, I mean "relevance". What is it? [09:03] sabdfl was on TM-34.. though the TM-25 "Mir" connection is good ;) [09:03] why does shuttleworth look completely different in the space pics? [09:04] he doesn't look like the same person [09:04] does he? [09:04] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Mark_Shuttleworth_NASA.jpg [09:04] short hair [09:04] younger [09:04] freefall [09:04] Shattlbort [09:04] is the russian name [09:05] b=v, so shattlvort [09:05] Shattlvort [09:05] nu par ruski? [09:05] (Voldemort?) [09:05] da konechno [09:05] blurry pic [09:06] ya lublu morozhenoe [09:06] that pic looks photoshopped head [09:07] khorosho dlya vas! [09:07] and what flavour? [09:08] ya lyublyu lampy [09:09] ya lyublyu kover [09:09] Wait.. this is #ubuntu-uk(raine) now? [09:09] haha [09:09] was just thinking that [09:09] o.O [09:09] koshka v sadu [09:10] the number of times i've seen people mess up mailman installs because they pick 'uk' for the language rather than 'gb' ... [09:13] * neuro is about to throw his phone out the window [09:14] neuro: time for a Win8 phone? [09:14] bloomin' constant gmail notifications about the same bloody email over an hour ago [09:14] gonna have to reinstall the gmail app [09:14] again [09:15] i have to do this like every couple of months [09:15] CM or stock android? [09:15] you're funny [09:15] mungbean: neuro is a microsoft supporter (proof: he pre-ordered an xbone) [09:16] iOS 6.1.3 (10B329) [09:16] MartijnVdS: i'm platform agnostic [09:16] best tool for the job and all that [09:16] I'd prefer a zbox. [09:16] the best tool is android [09:16] although i wouldn't say i'm a "microsoft supporter" [09:17] have you, or do you buy their products? [09:17] out of all the computers i've bought over the years, i've only kept a microsoft OS on four of them [09:17] considering MS make a loss on the xbox, buying it doesn't really constitute supporting them... [09:17] dwatkins: i buy games too [09:18] ...and I got Windows 8 for £25, so I imagine they made a loss on that too. [09:18] neuro: fair enough, I buy them too, but often a long time after release [09:18] yeah but MS take the same slice off the top regardless [09:18] surely each licence is a profit? [09:18] depends what the dev cost was [09:19] My employer buys laptops which come with Windows, I can't really do anything about that apart from insist on having a Mac. [09:19] \o/ [09:19] <-- bucking trends in computer technology since 1981 [09:19] lol [09:19] (we got a BBC micro) [09:19] hardly === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [09:20] acorn electron -> acorn a3000 -> uni -> PC running win95 -> 98se -> XP/linux dual -> linux [09:21] yeah but buying a mac is hardly bucking a trend [09:21] BBC Micro - > 486 DX/2 66 (Win 3.11 and Slackware) -> many many self-built PCs [09:21] I can remember selling the BBC Micros when they were first released, there were queue's out of the door and for about 50 yards down the road [09:21] apple hammered everyone last quarter [09:21] wow, DJones - didn't realise they were that popular [09:21] if you include ipads :P [09:22] Android is much more popular than iOS if you look at the stats for OS instead of the manufacturer, iirc. [09:22] ipad 2 + ipad 4 + ipad mini + imac + macbook pro + macbook air + mac mini + mac pro = 18.6m units in Q2 2013 (17.1%) [09:22] "pple hammered everyone last quarte"? [09:22] in the courts maybe [09:22] then lenovo (13.1m), hp (13m), samsung (10.8m), dell (9.4m) [09:23] dwatkins: It was probably because schools were recommending them & were buying them for their own computer classes, we were selling those, Atari's, Spectrums, Dragon's, Oric's and the like at the time [09:23] Occasional Apple's [09:23] apple's what? [09:23] * dwatkins steals all the apostrophes [09:23] <- grammar nazi [09:24] But they were the 'top end' machines [09:24] neuro: Apple II's [09:24] yeah, and the beeb was more expensive [09:24] Apple II's what? [09:24] schools were recommending beebs because the gubment selected them [09:24] * DJones kicks neuro in the apostrophe [09:24] 's :) [09:25] DJones: start using the apostrophe correctly and i'll stop pointing it out :) [09:25] and sorry, not the gubment, the BBC [09:25] I use what feels right [09:25] has... has something changed to screen locking in saucy? [09:25] http://i.imgur.com/IhXffyP.jpg [09:25] exactly! [09:26] you can't just go around throwing down apostrophes because you feel like it [09:26] SuperMatt: why? [09:27] * DJones Hands neuro a shift key to capitalise the start of sentences to correct the grammar [09:27] why did you capitalise "hands"? [09:28] where are your full stops? [09:28] come on man, put your game face on :) [09:28] sigh [09:28] :) [09:29] mungbean: I'M KIDDING, YOU FRUIT LOOP [09:29] capitals are so last century [09:29] neuro: poker face? 😐 [09:29] MartijnVdS: nm, it was just a result of some packages I installed and removed [09:29] MartijnVdS: and you can ram that unicode where the sun don't shine ;) [09:29] SuperMatt: stop doing that ;) [09:29] though the effect was pretty good [09:29] the "lock" screen was the login screen, which was much prettier than what we have now [09:30] neuro: 💩 [09:30] STOP IT [09:30] neuro: ♫ neuro can't stand unicode ♪ [09:31] /ignore [09:31] How do you write "/ignore" without a space at the start of the line? [09:31] /say [09:31] /say [09:31] oh right, siily me [09:32] /say [09:32] :) [09:32] /ignore [09:32] thanks [09:32] /say /say [09:32] /say /say [09:32] :P [09:32] Insayption! [09:32] I think I need to go lie down now. [09:33] i've never seen any of these films that the reddit kids meme about [09:33] I vaguely remember the plot to Inception, but it wasn't very awe-inspiring. [09:34] * neuro watched it again just last week [09:34] mungbean: how old are you, 91? :) [09:34] between 30-40 [09:34] a lot of redditors are excited 17 yr olds [09:35] especially in default subs [09:35] There was a trend on some photo site a while ago to take a photo of the computer displaying an image, print it out, and do other silly things to increase the layers of abstraction, but I don't remember where I saw it. [09:35] repeating the same stuff they just learned ad naseueum [09:35] yeah, that gets old very easily [09:36] i hate memes and "in-jokes" [09:37] which is which slashdot died for me [09:37] in soviet russia...on *every* thread [09:37] haha [09:37] wine is not an emulator... [09:37] I havn't looked at Slashdot for more than a moment in years, [09:37] I think they've stopped that now most of the /. commentors don't know what soviet russia is [09:37] i used to have it on twitter but i stopped reading twitter [09:37] I quite like Hacker News, the comments there actually seem to be fairly sensible at times. [09:37] really? [09:38] every time I go to HN i read the top few comments and it puts me off the rest [09:38] dwatkins: http://neuro.me.uk/2004/11/05/ui9-redux/ [09:38] neuro: nice [09:39] Does anybody have a Nexus 7, how is connectivity with 13.04, just wondering if it connects for copying files etc by cable [09:39] You're looking at the screensaver, kid! http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/boy-at-computer-displaying-seti-40home-screen-saver-david-parker.jpg [09:39] It's even written in the image filename... [09:40] dwatkins: or did you mean something like this? http://www.flickr.com/photos/neuro/7467721/in/photostream/ [09:40] neuro: that's neat too, but I was thinking more of the loss of quality with each different type of reproduction, from monitor to photograph of monitor to printout of photograph of monitor etc. [09:41] oh, right [09:41] pff no idea :) [09:47] i met the chaps behind /. at oscon this month. nice chaps [09:47] most of their content goes on the sister sites, not /. itself [09:49] my fingers rebel against me when trying to type /. [09:51] ditto [09:54] mungbean: in soviet russia, thread hates you [09:54] * mungbean stabs neuro [09:55] actually that would have been funnier if i'd managed to type what i'd intended to type [09:55] in soviet russia, meme hates you [09:55] never mind [09:58] my boy is coming to the office today to see me :D [10:07] Morning all === alan_g is now known as alan_g|tea === alan_g|tea is now known as alan_g === schwuk is now known as schwuk_away === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [11:26] http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge creeping up on $10,000,000 soon, maybe another hour or so [11:30] not really too relevant that, though? [11:32] indeed, not really. It is Schrödinger's money. Lots in the box, unless you look at the target, at which point the waveform collapses and it is nothing === prmr is now known as r === r is now known as prmr [11:36] actually, it's real money [11:36] it just hasn't been refunded yet [11:37] but it has actually been taken from people's bank accounts and credit card balances [11:39] not relevant? [11:41] 13.10 seems to have gotten a noticable speed increase over 13.04 even in virtualbox [11:42] $10,266,845 [11:43] thats a nice number to beat [11:48] DJones: it's the improvements that have been made so it runs on mobile, in theory once unity7 is replaced with unity8 it will become faster still === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [12:24] so i opened a paypal account the other day. today i got a letter asking me to "complete account setup" by adding a bank account. a real letter. by post. [12:24] nice [12:24] i wonder if this letter would serve as proof of identity for opening a bank account === JethroTroll is now known as GentileBen [12:25] probably not [12:44] sounds a bit circular. [12:46] \o/ $10M [12:46] only another 22 to go [12:46] indeed! [12:46] not long now! :D [12:47] still a few quit short on my screen [12:47] I really want it to succeed but I'm feeling I'll be getting my money back [12:47] $9,997,012 [12:47] yeah, my indicator rounds up ☻ [12:47] wish it rounded up to 32M ☻ [12:48] at least I can say I put money into it [12:48] I "did my bit" :-) [12:48] i wonder whether the edge's failure will nevertheless serve as an advert for ubuntu touch to the real clients - i.e. verizon etc [12:48] directhex, hopefully [12:49] the background sustainable looking level of sales is quite good [12:49] i suspect it already has [12:49] popey, you'd probably not be allowed to tell us until a product is announced anyway, because of damned NDAs [12:49] popey, maybe. maybe not. canonical has struggled to sell ubuntu to OEMs for various verticals - IVE, TV, etc - in the past. [12:49] indeed [12:50] that was before showing a clear demand [12:51] yeah, one thing that can be said is that even with something that doesn't exist canonical can raise 20,000 paying customers [12:52] if you look at http://ubuntu-edge.info/#change and ignore all the big peaks, and extend at that background level for 12 months you get 62M in sales (rough guess) [12:53] plus add in all the business sales locked out by unneccessary VAT and general admin daftness === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [12:53] ok, _now_ it's over $10M [12:54] yay, bit of a phyrric victory, but yay [12:55] I am curious what is going through the minds of people pledging at this point [12:57] AlanBell, probably that they'll get their money back in a week [12:58] yeah, but they are going to get a refund to a paypal account I think, so you pay money from credit card now, next week it is refunded to paypal, and you have to spend it there or take a transaction fee to remove it? [12:58] AlanBell, withdrawals to bank accounts are free (at least in the uk) [12:58] oh, OK [13:01] Personally I don't really care about the phone crowdsourcing. I'm more of a desktop/laptop user. [13:05] http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/ is broken? [13:05] http://ddj9plya1d2mr.cloudfront.net/ubuntu-13.04-desktop-amd64.iso -> This web page is not available [13:06] works for me [13:06] odd that you're getting cloudfront urls [13:07] *shrug* [13:07] at least cloud-to-butt isn't converting them to mybuttfront.net urls [13:09] o_O [13:09] breaking the torrenting rules for the office. hope the it manager doesn't catch me [13:09] it would be worse if you swapped butt and front about [13:10] https://github.com/panicsteve/cloud-to-butt [13:11] riiight [13:19] that should be part of the juju project really [13:35] what exactly does lavabit do that i cannot do with PGP and any email account in the whole world? [13:35] *did [13:36] there was a technical document posted recently [13:36] http://possibility.com/LavabitArchitecture.html [13:43] rather high for POP [13:44] in 2009, 80% POP, 10% IMAP, 10% webmail [13:46] can i get fail2ban to work with ipv6? or is there something similer which does work with ipv6? [13:46] I still don't see what's so special about them other than using a proprietary advertising daemon [13:47] ali1234: I guess the real advantage was that you didn't have to rely on third parties to be able to encrypt, because it's all stored encrypted on your end [13:47] although if the nsa had access to the third party's inbox, it really didn't matter [13:49] i don't understand [13:51] none of this actually explains what service they provide [13:52] worth noting that only lavabit's paid tier got the encrpytion offering, and that's a slim slice of the pie [13:53] ali1234, I don't get it either [13:59] the document seems to describe a standard cyrus setup [14:00] by 2013 the company bring in around 100k revenue. [14:00] never heard of them before they shut [14:01] to be fair, we don't hear much about most mail providers, with the 10-tonne gorilla being so popular [14:02] plain text emails are encrypted for the eyes of the mailbox owner before being written to disk, do other things do that? [14:03] brobostigon: fail2ban just runs iptables rules doesn' tit? [14:03] AlanBell: automagically? [14:03] yeah, by the server, it would wrap up encrypted mails too I guess [14:04] i didn't notice this in the doc. i did skim it though [14:04] DJones: yep. [14:04] * Do you use any particularly cool technologies or algorithms? [14:04] i mean BigRedS [14:04] Haha, that's a new one :) [14:04] my fingers slipped. [14:04] yeah see that's the thing - if you're sending or receiving plaintext emails it doesn't really matter if it is encrypted on your email server [14:04] so as soon as it is on disk, the service provider has plausible deniability [14:05] then it should be ble to do ip6 [14:05] they can just sniff it in transit, or in the receiver's mailbox [14:05] yeah - surely if you're paranoid the server's receiving crypted mail and it doesn't matter how it stores it [14:05] yeah, but you can't raid the server and take the lot [14:05] BigRedS: so just change and or add it to include ip6tables inclusive to iptables ? [14:06] you don't need to. you just go to the upstream provider and have them install a tap... [14:06] most of the users are using pop anyway [14:06] you still want paranoia wherever possible anyway (ssl in transit, asymmetric on-disk), else gpg isn't hiding *Who* you're talking to [14:06] I am not saying it is wonderful, but I think that is the thing that it is about [14:06] probably not keeping much on the server [14:06] brobostigon: I don't know for sure, but there's no good reason for it to do anything but Just Work as far as I can see [14:06] BigRedS: i see, ok. i will test that out. [14:07] presumably the NSA didn't go far enough upstream when attempting to install the tap [14:07] he says (and that appears to be 2009) 140,000 accounts, 1500 paid customers, and that the encryption is "Alas, right now this is only available to paid users". So the 1% that are actually encrypting disappear in pop/imap/etc stats [14:07] nah. more likely they got some incriminating emails from an upstream tap, but in a way that makes them inadmissible [14:08] so now they need to compell lavabit to hand them over legally, by a warrant [14:09] I have a feeling that the NSA didn't want details of other customers, instead, they probably wanted something in place so that the NSA could read anything going in and out of snowden's account. That of course would have compromised the secuirty of all accounts, so he shut it down [14:09] feds can't track what's no longer going in and out [14:11] probably that too [14:11] from how it reads with the asymmetric encryption, they'd need to keep it live to let snowdon log-in, since his password is the private key for the on-disk encryption [14:12] if he can't log in, they can't capture that, and lavabit can't decrypt the data at-rest [14:16] se they are mopping up the top tier of email providers, now going for tier 2 and lower [14:17] alternatively he could move operations to sweden/elsewhere [14:17] or sell to kimdotcom [14:20] he needs to run it himself like all the bad boys do [14:20] or use tor [14:20] as in snowden does === alan_g is now known as alan_g|tea [14:22] alan_g|tea, that sounds like a plan [14:22] most people who run it themselves do so on a VPS, though [14:24] I'm still on the hunt for a reasonably priced vps provider in iceland (who isn't owned by an overseas parent) [14:25] most of my emails are from the train company and amazon [14:25] hence gmail [14:25] I don't particularly have anything to hide, I just find it an interesting challenge [14:26] i have a self hosted zimbra server too [14:26] ewww [14:26] zimbra == bloat [14:26] :-| [14:26] not if you're running your company infrastructure off it [14:26] hmm [14:27] I mean, I don't care who reads my mother's birthday card, but I still seal the envelope [14:27] yeah that improves it's size-to-benefit [14:27] its fantastic [14:27] but for individuals or for resellers it's evil [14:27] and solid [14:27] can I email someone to test I have my enigmail set up correctly? [14:27] bigbarry@whitehouse.gov [14:27] lollers [14:28] bigbarry? whosat? [14:28] nobody@nsa.gov [14:28] i hope thats his real addy [14:28] barry obama [14:28] aah [14:28] obi-one (where "obi" is short for "obama" ;) [14:28] I've not heard him referred to as barry often enough to associate the name [14:28] if you're going to go for barry, at least make him an o'bama ;) [14:28] he woulda got elected if he called himself barry o'bama [14:29] the irishmans choice [14:29] I dunno if you've caught the news in the last 7 years, but he did get himself elected [14:29] didn't he get elected anyway? [14:29] wow [14:29] it worked then [14:29] wasn't the other guy a mormon? === alan_g|tea is now known as alan_g [14:30] moron* [14:30] I love how no one has offered up their email address :( [14:30] he won by default then [14:30] * SuperMatt cries in the corner [14:30] SuperMatt, I don't have decipherability set up [14:30] u wanna encrypt a mail? [14:30] you need my pub key? [14:31] surely it'll find out your pubkey from keyservers, no? [14:31] i haven't registered with one [14:31] oh right [14:31] then yes? [14:31] i don't have a pub key (for GPG) [14:31] anymore [14:31] i sort of lost it [14:31] that's a good idea.. I need to copy my private key onto this machine [14:42] need to work out whether AMD 8380 or Xeon X5570 are faster [14:48] i think its the intels [14:50] intel. [14:50] there, easy answer [14:50] users have a choice of 1 queue with 32 cores of AMD or submit to the blades queue with 64 cores of intel [14:50] guess what they choose [14:53] ok SuperMatt you can try me at dan@bang-on.net - my public key id is 0349ED21 [14:59] diddledan: I've emailed you, though I'm not sure what to do with your key id? :/ [14:59] I've signed my email [15:00] SuperMatt, the key id is only if you want to encrypt [15:00] of course [15:00] because it needs your public key [15:00] ok, well you should have something signed from me [15:07] hmm, it doesn't seem to want to verify it in enigmail - let me try the commandline [15:08] eep [15:08] aah, might be that it can't find your pubkey in my keyring - I've not imported it yet [15:09] B46A6CE6 [15:10] it verifies correctly on the commandline so your signature is good [15:10] just wondering why my enigmail isn't working *prods it* [15:12] lol [15:13] enigmail doesn't woek [15:14] ? [15:17] it just fails to wire into the right point in the thunderbird pipeline, meaning a high likelihood that any mail you send from enigmail won't validate in gpg [15:22] I think I understand what you mean [15:23] I thought that to validate it just had to have the line "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- " at the top. That's how I've been encrypting my mail for years [15:23] so what would work better for gpg-based comms? [15:23] er, that'd be signing, obviously [15:24] mail.app wfm ;) [15:24] mutt works for me :) [15:24] shauno, I'm not on os x atm [15:25] and isn't gpg in mail.app an evil unsupported hack? [15:25] sure, but it works [15:26] if it's a hack, it's quite a well-done one [15:26] mail.app doesn't provide an api [15:26] so it's using undocumented stuff, i.e. hack [15:27] that's what prompted my (admittedly bad) sense of humour. thunderbird does have an api. apparently api!=results :p [15:27] the funny thing about our internal irc channel at work is the regularity you get root passwords copy pasted into it [15:28] mungbean, I won't believe it until I see the logs [15:28] diddledan: would you mind encrypting something for me? [15:29] done [15:29] got it, thanks :) [15:30] encrypted reply... nice :) [15:30] ssshhhh! [15:30] dammit, now everyone knows [15:31] oh man [15:31] traffic analysis [15:31] i have a plugin in my browser which lets me do gpg in gmail [15:31] popey: oh, shiny [15:31] mailvelope [15:31] http://www.mailvelope.com/ [15:32]