[08:14] <mungbean> !ping
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> good morning!
[08:15] <mungbean> thought my session had hung
[08:15] <mungbean> last update 11:26pm
[08:15] <MooDoo> morning
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> I have a few nickchanges from earlier this morning
[08:16] <mungbean> i put those on ignore
[08:16] <MartijnVdS> I have joins and parts on ignore, nick changes can be useful sometimes
[08:19] <mungbean> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=51.492159,-0.19092&spn=0.005291,0.013937&sll=51.492140,-0.193028&layer=c&cid=12502927659667388442&panoid=c9UMhWP_MWm9U0L48xEjYw&cbp=13,291.8,,0,18.86&gl=US&t=m&cbll=51.492132,-0.192862&z=17
[08:19] <mungbean> follow the >> arrows...
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: woo :)
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's bigger on the inside!
[08:20] <MooDoo> lol
[08:29] <mungbean> i always drink my chocolate milk too fast :(
[08:29] <mungbean> ouch
[08:39] <mungbean> how do i selectively block a user's twitter updates that are getting sent to facebook?
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> I think you can't? Except for disabling the auto-forwarding
[08:41] <mungbean> it used to be possible to hide eejit@twitter updates selectively
[08:42] <mungbean> its possible to choose to unselect games, comments and likes etc, and "other activity"
[08:44] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> heh http://www.shouldireadthedailymail.com/
[08:58] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Soyuz TM-25 landing day!
[08:59] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Not TM-34?
[09:00] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, not according to Wikipedia.  That landed on November 10th, apparently.
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: but they're more Ubuntu-relevant
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> s/they're/that one is
[09:02] <JamesTait> What is this relevance of which you speak?
[09:02] <mungbean> mir?
[09:02] <JamesTait> No, I mean "relevance".  What is it?
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> sabdfl was on TM-34.. though the TM-25 "Mir" connection is good ;)
[09:03] <mungbean> why does shuttleworth look completely different in the space pics?
[09:04] <mungbean> he doesn't look like the same person
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> does he?
[09:04] <mungbean> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Mark_Shuttleworth_NASA.jpg
[09:04] <neuro> short hair
[09:04] <neuro> younger
[09:04] <neuro> freefall
[09:04] <mungbean> Shattlbort
[09:04] <mungbean> is the russian name
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> b=v, so shattlvort
[09:05] <mungbean> Shattlvort
[09:05] <neuro> nu par ruski?
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> (Voldemort?)
[09:05] <mungbean> da konechno
[09:05] <mungbean> blurry pic
[09:06] <mungbean> ya lublu morozhenoe
[09:06] <mungbean> that pic looks photoshopped head
[09:07] <neuro> khorosho dlya vas!
[09:07] <neuro> and what flavour?
[09:08] <neuro> ya lyublyu lampy
[09:09] <neuro> ya lyublyu kover
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> Wait.. this is #ubuntu-uk(raine) now?
[09:09] <neuro> haha
[09:09] <neuro> was just thinking that
[09:09] <bigcalm> o.O
[09:09] <mungbean> koshka v sadu
[09:10] <neuro> the number of times i've seen people mess up mailman installs because they pick 'uk' for the language rather than 'gb' ...
[09:13]  * neuro is about to throw his phone out the window
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> neuro: time for a Win8 phone?
[09:14] <neuro> bloomin' constant gmail notifications about the same bloody email over an hour ago
[09:14] <neuro> gonna have to reinstall the gmail app
[09:14] <neuro> again
[09:15] <neuro> i have to do this like every couple of months
[09:15] <mungbean> CM or stock android?
[09:15] <neuro> you're funny
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: neuro is a microsoft supporter (proof: he pre-ordered an xbone)
[09:16] <neuro> iOS 6.1.3 (10B329)
[09:16] <neuro> MartijnVdS: i'm platform agnostic
[09:16] <neuro> best tool for the job and all that
[09:16] <dwatkins> I'd prefer a zbox.
[09:16] <mungbean> the best tool is android
[09:16] <neuro> although i wouldn't say i'm a "microsoft supporter"
[09:17] <mungbean> have you, or do you buy their products?
[09:17] <neuro> out of all the computers i've bought over the years, i've only kept a microsoft OS on four of them
[09:17] <dwatkins> considering MS make a loss on the xbox, buying it doesn't really constitute supporting them...
[09:17] <neuro> dwatkins: i buy games too
[09:18] <dwatkins> ...and I got Windows 8 for £25, so I imagine they made a loss on that too.
[09:18] <dwatkins> neuro: fair enough, I buy them too, but often a long time after release
[09:18] <neuro> yeah but MS take the same slice off the top regardless
[09:18] <mungbean> surely each licence is a profit?
[09:18] <neuro> depends what the dev cost was
[09:19] <dwatkins> My employer buys laptops which come with Windows, I can't really do anything about that apart from insist on having a Mac.
[09:19] <neuro> \o/
[09:19] <dwatkins> <-- bucking trends in computer technology since 1981
[09:19] <neuro> lol
[09:19] <dwatkins> (we got a BBC micro)
[09:19] <neuro> hardly
[09:20] <mungbean> acorn electron -> acorn a3000 -> uni -> PC running win95 -> 98se -> XP/linux dual -> linux
[09:21] <neuro> yeah but buying a mac is hardly bucking a trend
[09:21] <dwatkins> BBC Micro - > 486 DX/2 66 (Win 3.11 and Slackware) -> many many self-built PCs
[09:21] <DJones> I can remember selling the BBC Micros when they were first released, there were queue's out of the door and for about 50 yards down the road
[09:21] <neuro> apple hammered everyone last quarter
[09:21] <dwatkins> wow, DJones - didn't realise they were that popular
[09:21] <neuro> if you include ipads :P
[09:22] <dwatkins> Android is much more popular than iOS if you look at the stats for OS instead of the manufacturer, iirc.
[09:22] <neuro> ipad 2 + ipad 4 + ipad mini + imac + macbook pro + macbook air + mac mini + mac pro = 18.6m units in Q2 2013 (17.1%)
[09:22] <mungbean> "pple hammered everyone last quarte"?
[09:22] <mungbean> in the courts maybe
[09:22] <neuro> then lenovo (13.1m), hp (13m), samsung (10.8m), dell (9.4m)
[09:23] <DJones> dwatkins: It was probably because schools were recommending them & were buying them for their own computer classes, we were selling those, Atari's, Spectrums, Dragon's, Oric's and the like at the time
[09:23] <DJones> Occasional Apple's
[09:23] <neuro> apple's what?
[09:23]  * dwatkins steals all the apostrophes
[09:23] <neuro> <- grammar nazi
[09:24] <DJones> But they were the 'top end' machines
[09:24] <DJones> neuro: Apple II's
[09:24] <dwatkins> yeah, and the beeb was more expensive
[09:24] <neuro> Apple II's what?
[09:24] <neuro> schools were recommending beebs because the gubment selected them
[09:24]  * DJones kicks neuro in the apostrophe
[09:24] <DJones> 's :)
[09:25] <neuro> DJones: start using the apostrophe correctly and i'll stop pointing it out :)
[09:25] <neuro> and sorry, not the gubment, the BBC
[09:25] <DJones> I use what feels right
[09:25] <SuperMatt> has... has something changed to screen locking in saucy?
[09:25] <dwatkins> http://i.imgur.com/IhXffyP.jpg
[09:25] <neuro> exactly!
[09:26] <neuro> you can't just go around throwing down apostrophes because you feel like it
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: why?
[09:27]  * DJones Hands neuro a shift key to capitalise the start of sentences to correct the grammar
[09:27] <neuro> why did you capitalise "hands"?
[09:28] <neuro> where are your full stops?
[09:28] <neuro> come on man, put your game face on :)
[09:28] <mungbean> sigh
[09:28] <DJones> :)
[09:29] <neuro> mungbean: I'M KIDDING, YOU FRUIT LOOP
[09:29] <mungbean> capitals are so last century
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> neuro: poker face? 😐
[09:29] <SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: nm, it was just a result of some packages I installed and removed
[09:29] <neuro> MartijnVdS: and you can ram that unicode where the sun don't shine ;)
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: stop doing that ;)
[09:29] <SuperMatt> though the effect was pretty good
[09:29] <SuperMatt> the "lock" screen was the login screen, which was much prettier than what we have now
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> neuro: 💩
[09:30] <neuro> STOP IT
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> neuro: ♫ neuro can't stand unicode ♪
[09:31] <neuro> /ignore
[09:31] <dwatkins> How do you write "/ignore" without a space at the start of the line?
[09:31] <neuro> /say
[09:31] <dwatkins>  /say
[09:31] <dwatkins> oh right, siily me
[09:32] <mungbean> /say
[09:32] <neuro> :)
[09:32] <dwatkins> /ignore
[09:32] <dwatkins> thanks
[09:32] <mungbean>  /say /say
[09:32] <mungbean> /say /say
[09:32] <mungbean> :P
[09:32] <dwatkins> Insayption!
[09:32] <dwatkins> I think I need to go lie down now.
[09:33] <mungbean> i've never seen any of these films that the reddit kids meme about
[09:33] <dwatkins> I vaguely remember the plot to Inception, but it wasn't very awe-inspiring.
[09:34]  * neuro watched it again just last week
[09:34] <neuro> mungbean: how old are you, 91? :)
[09:34] <mungbean> between 30-40
[09:34] <mungbean> a lot of redditors are excited 17 yr olds
[09:35] <mungbean> especially in default subs
[09:35] <dwatkins> There was a trend on some photo site a while ago to take a photo of the computer displaying an image, print it out, and do other silly things to increase the layers of abstraction, but I don't remember where I saw it.
[09:35] <mungbean> repeating the same stuff they just learned ad naseueum
[09:35] <dwatkins> yeah, that gets old very easily
[09:36] <mungbean> i hate memes and "in-jokes"
[09:37] <mungbean> which is which slashdot died for me
[09:37] <mungbean> in soviet russia...on *every* thread
[09:37] <BigRedS> haha
[09:37] <mungbean> wine is not an emulator...
[09:37] <dwatkins> I havn't looked at Slashdot for more than a moment in years,
[09:37] <BigRedS> I think they've stopped that now most of the /. commentors don't know what soviet russia is
[09:37] <mungbean> i used to have it on twitter but i stopped reading twitter
[09:37] <dwatkins> I quite like Hacker News, the comments there actually seem to be fairly sensible at times.
[09:37] <BigRedS> really?
[09:38] <BigRedS> every time I go to HN i read the top few comments and it puts me off the rest
[09:38] <neuro> dwatkins: http://neuro.me.uk/2004/11/05/ui9-redux/
[09:38] <dwatkins> neuro: nice
[09:39] <DJones> Does anybody have a Nexus 7, how is connectivity with 13.04, just wondering if it connects for copying files etc by cable
[09:39] <dwatkins> You're looking at the screensaver, kid! http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/boy-at-computer-displaying-seti-40home-screen-saver-david-parker.jpg
[09:39] <dwatkins> It's even written in the image filename...
[09:40] <neuro> dwatkins: or did you mean something like this? http://www.flickr.com/photos/neuro/7467721/in/photostream/
[09:40] <dwatkins> neuro: that's neat too, but I was thinking more of the loss of quality with each different type of reproduction, from monitor to photograph of monitor to printout of photograph of monitor etc.
[09:41] <neuro> oh, right
[09:41] <neuro> pff no idea :)
[09:47] <popey> i met the chaps behind /. at oscon this month. nice chaps
[09:47] <popey> most of their content goes on the sister sites, not /. itself
[09:49] <mungbean> my fingers rebel against me when trying to type /.
[09:51] <popey> ditto
[09:54] <neuro> mungbean: in soviet russia, thread hates you
[09:54]  * mungbean stabs neuro
[09:55] <neuro> actually that would have been funnier if i'd managed to type what i'd intended to type
[09:55] <neuro> in soviet russia, meme hates you
[09:55] <neuro> never mind
[09:58] <mungbean> my boy is coming to the office today to see me :D
[10:07] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:26] <AlanBell> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge creeping up on $10,000,000 soon, maybe another hour or so
[11:30] <daftykins> not really too relevant that, though?
[11:32] <AlanBell> indeed, not really. It is Schrödinger's money. Lots in the box, unless you look at the target, at which point the waveform collapses and it is nothing
[11:36] <neuro> actually, it's real money
[11:36] <neuro> it just hasn't been refunded yet
[11:37] <neuro> but it has actually been taken from people's bank accounts and credit card balances
[11:39] <popey> not relevant?
[11:41] <DJones> 13.10 seems to have gotten a noticable speed increase over 13.04 even in virtualbox
[11:42] <popey> $10,266,845
[11:43] <popey> thats a nice number to beat
[11:48] <davmor2> DJones: it's the improvements that have been made so it runs on mobile,  in theory once unity7 is replaced with unity8 it will become faster still
[12:24] <ali1234> so i opened a paypal account the other day. today i got a letter asking me to "complete account setup" by adding a bank account. a real letter. by post.
[12:24] <daftykins> nice
[12:24] <ali1234> i wonder if this letter would serve as proof of identity for opening a bank account
[12:25] <daftykins> probably not
[12:44] <dwatkins> sounds a bit circular.
[12:46] <popey> \o/ $10M
[12:46] <diddledan> only another 22 to go
[12:46] <popey> indeed!
[12:46] <popey> not long now! :D
[12:47] <AlanBell> still a few quit short on my screen
[12:47] <diddledan> I really want it to succeed but I'm feeling I'll be getting my money back
[12:47] <AlanBell> $9,997,012
[12:47] <popey> yeah, my indicator rounds up ☻
[12:47] <popey> wish it rounded up to 32M ☻
[12:48] <diddledan> at least I can say I put money into it
[12:48] <diddledan> I "did my bit" :-)
[12:48] <directhex> i wonder whether the edge's failure will nevertheless serve as an advert for ubuntu touch to the real clients - i.e. verizon etc
[12:48] <diddledan> directhex, hopefully
[12:49] <AlanBell> the background sustainable looking level of sales is quite good
[12:49] <popey> i suspect it already has
[12:49] <diddledan> popey, you'd probably not be allowed to tell us until a product is announced anyway, because of damned NDAs
[12:49] <directhex> popey, maybe. maybe not. canonical has struggled to sell ubuntu to OEMs for various verticals - IVE, TV, etc - in the past.
[12:49] <popey> indeed
[12:50] <popey> that was before showing a clear demand
[12:51] <diddledan> yeah, one thing that can be said is that even with something that doesn't exist canonical can raise 20,000 paying customers
[12:52] <AlanBell> if you look at http://ubuntu-edge.info/#change and ignore all the big peaks, and extend at that background level for 12 months you get 62M in sales (rough guess)
[12:53] <AlanBell> plus add in all the business sales locked out by unneccessary VAT and general admin daftness
[12:53] <popey> ok, _now_ it's over $10M
[12:54] <AlanBell> yay, bit of a phyrric victory, but yay
[12:55] <AlanBell> I am curious what is going through the minds of people pledging at this point
[12:57] <diddledan> AlanBell, probably that they'll get their money back in a week
[12:58] <AlanBell> yeah, but they are going to get a refund to a paypal account I think, so you pay money from credit card now, next week it is refunded to paypal, and you have to spend it there or take a transaction fee to remove it?
[12:58] <diddledan> AlanBell, withdrawals to bank accounts are free (at least in the uk)
[12:58] <AlanBell> oh, OK
[13:01] <bashrc> Personally I don't really care about the phone crowdsourcing.  I'm more of a desktop/laptop user.
[13:05] <directhex> http://releases.ubuntu.com/raring/ is broken?
[13:05] <directhex> http://ddj9plya1d2mr.cloudfront.net/ubuntu-13.04-desktop-amd64.iso -> This web page is not available
[13:06] <diddledan> works for me
[13:06] <diddledan> odd that you're getting cloudfront urls
[13:07] <directhex> *shrug*
[13:07] <directhex> at least cloud-to-butt isn't converting them to mybuttfront.net urls
[13:09] <diddledan> o_O
[13:09] <directhex> breaking the torrenting rules for the office. hope the it manager doesn't catch me
[13:09] <diddledan> it would be worse if you swapped butt and front about
[13:10] <directhex> https://github.com/panicsteve/cloud-to-butt
[13:11] <diddledan> riiight
[13:19] <AlanBell> that should be part of the juju project really
[13:35] <ali1234> what exactly does lavabit do that i cannot do with PGP and any email account in the whole world?
[13:35] <ali1234> *did
[13:36] <popey> there was a technical document posted recently
[13:36] <popey> http://possibility.com/LavabitArchitecture.html
[13:43] <mungbean> rather high for POP
[13:44] <mungbean> in 2009, 80% POP, 10% IMAP, 10% webmail
[13:46] <brobostigon> can i get fail2ban to work with ipv6? or is there something similer which does work with ipv6?
[13:46] <diddledan> I still don't see what's so special about them other than using a proprietary advertising daemon
[13:47] <SuperMatt> ali1234: I guess the real advantage was that you didn't have to rely on third parties to be able to encrypt, because it's all stored encrypted on your end
[13:47] <SuperMatt> although if the nsa had access to the third party's inbox, it really didn't matter
[13:49] <ali1234> i don't understand
[13:51] <ali1234> none of this actually explains what service they provide
[13:52] <shauno> worth noting that only lavabit's paid tier got the encrpytion offering, and that's a slim slice of the pie
[13:53] <diddledan> ali1234, I don't get it either
[13:59] <mungbean> the document seems to describe a standard cyrus setup
[14:00] <mungbean> by 2013 the company bring in around 100k revenue.
[14:00] <mungbean> never heard of them before they shut
[14:01] <shauno> to be fair, we don't hear much about most mail providers, with the 10-tonne gorilla being so popular
[14:02] <AlanBell> plain text emails are encrypted for the eyes of the mailbox owner before being written to disk, do other things do that?
[14:03] <BigRedS> brobostigon: fail2ban just runs iptables rules doesn' tit?
[14:03] <mungbean> AlanBell: automagically?
[14:03] <AlanBell> yeah, by the server, it would wrap up encrypted mails too I guess
[14:04] <mungbean> i didn't notice this in the doc. i did skim it though
[14:04] <brobostigon> DJones: yep.
[14:04] <AlanBell> * Do you use any particularly cool technologies or algorithms?
[14:04] <brobostigon> i mean BigRedS
[14:04] <BigRedS> Haha, that's a new one :)
[14:04] <brobostigon> my fingers slipped.
[14:04] <ali1234> yeah see that's the thing - if you're sending or receiving plaintext emails it doesn't really matter if it is encrypted on your email server
[14:04] <AlanBell> so as soon as it is on disk, the service provider has plausible deniability
[14:05] <BigRedS> then it should be ble to do ip6
[14:05] <ali1234> they can just sniff it in transit, or in the receiver's mailbox
[14:05] <BigRedS> yeah - surely if you're paranoid the server's receiving crypted mail and it doesn't matter how it stores it
[14:05] <AlanBell> yeah, but you can't raid the server and take the lot
[14:05] <brobostigon> BigRedS: so just change and or add it to include ip6tables inclusive to iptables ?
[14:06] <ali1234> you don't need to. you just go to the upstream provider and have them install a tap...
[14:06] <mungbean> most of the users are using pop anyway
[14:06] <shauno> you still want paranoia wherever possible anyway (ssl in transit, asymmetric on-disk), else gpg isn't hiding *Who* you're talking to
[14:06] <AlanBell> I am not saying it is wonderful, but I think that is the thing that it is about
[14:06] <mungbean> probably not keeping much on the server
[14:06] <BigRedS> brobostigon: I don't know for sure, but there's no good reason for it to do anything but Just Work as far as I can see
[14:06] <brobostigon> BigRedS: i see, ok. i will test that out.
[14:07] <AlanBell> presumably the NSA didn't go far enough upstream when attempting to install the tap
[14:07] <shauno> he says (and that appears to be 2009) 140,000 accounts, 1500 paid customers, and that the encryption is "Alas, right now this is only available to paid users".  So the 1% that are actually encrypting disappear in pop/imap/etc stats
[14:07] <ali1234> nah. more likely they got some incriminating emails from an upstream tap, but in a way that makes them inadmissible
[14:08] <ali1234> so now they need to compell lavabit to hand them over legally, by a warrant
[14:09] <SuperMatt> I have a feeling that the NSA didn't want details of other customers, instead, they probably wanted something in place so that the NSA could read anything going in and out of snowden's account. That of course would have compromised the secuirty of all accounts, so he shut it down
[14:09] <SuperMatt> feds can't track what's no longer going in and out
[14:11] <ali1234> probably that too
[14:11] <shauno> from how it reads with the asymmetric encryption, they'd need to keep it live to let snowdon log-in, since his password is the private key for the on-disk encryption
[14:12] <shauno> if he can't log in, they can't capture that, and lavabit can't decrypt the data at-rest
[14:16] <mungbean> se they are mopping up the top tier of email providers, now going for tier 2 and lower
[14:17] <mungbean> alternatively he could move operations to sweden/elsewhere
[14:17] <mungbean> or sell to kimdotcom
[14:20] <diddledan> he needs to run it himself like all the bad boys do
[14:20] <diddledan> or use tor
[14:20] <diddledan> as in snowden does
[14:22] <diddledan> alan_g|tea, that sounds like a plan
[14:22] <BigRedS> most people who run it themselves do so on a VPS, though
[14:24] <shauno> I'm still on the hunt for a reasonably priced vps provider in iceland (who isn't owned by an overseas parent)
[14:25] <mungbean> most of my emails are from the train company and amazon
[14:25] <mungbean> hence gmail
[14:25] <shauno> I don't particularly have anything to hide, I just find it an interesting challenge
[14:26] <mungbean> i have a self hosted zimbra server too
[14:26] <diddledan> ewww
[14:26] <diddledan> zimbra == bloat
[14:26] <mungbean> :-|
[14:26] <mungbean> not if you're running your company infrastructure off it
[14:26] <diddledan> hmm
[14:27] <shauno> I mean, I don't care who reads my mother's birthday card, but I still seal the envelope
[14:27] <diddledan> yeah that improves it's size-to-benefit
[14:27] <mungbean> its fantastic
[14:27] <diddledan> but for individuals or for resellers it's evil
[14:27] <mungbean> and solid
[14:27] <SuperMatt> can I email someone to test I have my enigmail set up correctly?
[14:27] <mungbean> bigbarry@whitehouse.gov
[14:27] <SuperMatt> lollers
[14:28] <diddledan> bigbarry? whosat?
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> nobody@nsa.gov
[14:28] <mungbean> i hope thats his real addy
[14:28] <mungbean> barry obama
[14:28] <diddledan> aah
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> obi-one (where "obi" is short for "obama" ;)
[14:28] <diddledan> I've not heard him referred to as barry often enough to associate the name
[14:28] <shauno> if you're going to go for barry, at least make him an o'bama ;)
[14:28] <mungbean> he woulda got elected if he called himself barry o'bama
[14:29] <mungbean> the irishmans choice
[14:29] <shauno> I dunno if you've caught the news in the last 7 years, but he did get himself elected
[14:29] <diddledan> didn't he get elected anyway?
[14:29] <mungbean> wow
[14:29] <mungbean> it worked then
[14:29] <mungbean> wasn't the other guy a mormon?
[14:30] <diddledan> moron*
[14:30] <SuperMatt> I love how no one has offered up their email address :(
[14:30] <mungbean> he won by default then
[14:30]  * SuperMatt cries in the corner
[14:30] <diddledan> SuperMatt, I don't have decipherability set up
[14:30] <mungbean> u wanna encrypt a mail?
[14:30] <mungbean> you need my pub key?
[14:31] <SuperMatt> surely it'll find out your pubkey from keyservers, no?
[14:31] <mungbean> i haven't registered with one
[14:31] <SuperMatt> oh right
[14:31] <SuperMatt> then yes?
[14:31] <mungbean> i don't have a pub key (for GPG)
[14:31] <mungbean> anymore
[14:31] <mungbean> i sort of lost it
[14:31] <diddledan> that's a good idea.. I need to copy my private key onto this machine
[14:42] <mungbean> need to work out whether AMD 8380 or Xeon X5570 are faster
[14:48] <mungbean> i think its the intels
[14:50] <directhex> intel.
[14:50] <directhex> there, easy answer
[14:50] <mungbean> users have a choice of 1 queue with 32 cores of AMD or submit to the blades queue with 64 cores of intel
[14:50] <mungbean> guess what they choose
[14:53] <diddledan> ok SuperMatt you can try me at dan@bang-on.net - my public key id is 0349ED21
[14:59] <SuperMatt> diddledan: I've emailed you, though I'm not sure what to do with your key id? :/
[14:59] <SuperMatt> I've signed my email
[15:00] <diddledan> SuperMatt, the key id is only if you want to encrypt
[15:00] <SuperMatt> of course
[15:00] <SuperMatt> because it needs your public key
[15:00] <SuperMatt> ok, well you should have something signed from me
[15:07] <diddledan> hmm, it doesn't seem to want to verify it in enigmail - let me try the commandline
[15:08] <SuperMatt> eep
[15:08] <diddledan> aah, might be that it can't find your pubkey in my keyring - I've not imported it yet
[15:09] <SuperMatt> B46A6CE6
[15:10] <diddledan> it verifies correctly on the commandline so your signature is good
[15:10] <diddledan> just wondering why my enigmail isn't working *prods it*
[15:12] <SuperMatt> lol
[15:13] <directhex> enigmail doesn't woek
[15:14] <diddledan> ?
[15:17] <directhex> it just fails to wire into the right point in the thunderbird pipeline, meaning a high likelihood that any mail you send from enigmail won't validate in gpg
[15:22] <SuperMatt> I think I understand what you mean
[15:23] <BigRedS> I thought that to validate it just had to have the line "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- " at the top. That's how I've been encrypting my mail for years
[15:23] <diddledan> so what would work better for gpg-based comms?
[15:23] <BigRedS> er, that'd be signing, obviously
[15:24] <shauno> mail.app wfm ;)
[15:24] <BigRedS> mutt works for me :)
[15:24] <diddledan> shauno, I'm not on os x atm
[15:25] <diddledan> and isn't gpg in mail.app an evil unsupported hack?
[15:25] <shauno> sure, but it works
[15:26] <mgdm> if it's a hack, it's quite a well-done one
[15:26] <diddledan> mail.app doesn't provide an api
[15:26] <diddledan> so it's using undocumented stuff, i.e. hack
[15:27] <shauno> that's what prompted my (admittedly bad) sense of humour.  thunderbird does have an api.  apparently api!=results :p
[15:27] <mungbean> the funny thing about our internal irc channel at work is the regularity you get root passwords copy pasted into it
[15:28] <diddledan> mungbean, I won't believe it until I see the logs
[15:28] <SuperMatt> diddledan: would you mind encrypting something for me?
[15:29] <diddledan> done
[15:29] <SuperMatt> got it, thanks :)
[15:30] <SuperMatt> encrypted reply... nice :)
[15:30] <diddledan> ssshhhh!
[15:30] <diddledan> dammit, now everyone knows
[15:31] <SuperMatt> oh man
[15:31] <MartijnVdS> traffic analysis
[15:31] <popey> i have a plugin in my browser which lets me do gpg in gmail
[15:31] <MartijnVdS> popey: oh, shiny
[15:31] <popey> mailvelope
[15:31] <popey> http://www.mailvelope.com/
[15:32] <BigRedS> oooh
[15:32] <SuperMatt> diddledan: you need to get your key signed by a trusted third party!
[15:33] <diddledan> yeah
[15:33] <diddledan> but who do I know that is going to go on record as actually knowing me?!
[15:34] <ali1234> evil mole pa...
[15:34] <SuperMatt> surely a friend or something?
[15:35] <shauno> I think he's right there.  dan doesn't have many friends that'd admit it :p
[15:35] <diddledan> :-D
[15:37] <SuperMatt> hahaha
[15:37] <diddledan> seems enigmail works for encrypted messages automatically decrypting them, but doesn't recognise a signed message
[15:38] <diddledan> this is in ubuntu serious salami
[15:38] <SuperMatt> maybe updates to thunderbird have messged it about a bit
[15:38] <mungbean> maybe geary should resubmit their kickstarter but for raising $20k to add very smooth PGP support
[15:39] <SuperMatt> they need pgp, simple archiving like thunderbird has got, and saving outgoing messages to sent
[15:39] <SuperMatt> because I'm very surprised that's not in there already
[15:39] <MartijnVdS> proper gmail-imap support
[15:39] <MartijnVdS> I know it's not "normal" IMAP, but just support it natively. Please :)
[15:40] <diddledan> I really need to move away from gmail - it's sucking my lifeforce
[15:40] <SuperMatt> I've configured my own mail server
[15:40] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: at least it's not reddit
[15:41] <mungbean> the 100$K kicstarter was promsiing transparent GPG
[15:41] <diddledan> SuperMatt, I'm thinking of doing the same
[15:41] <diddledan> I've already got a decent server that I pay for.. might as well use it
[15:41] <SuperMatt> indeed
[15:41] <SuperMatt> I run mail and web on a single 1gig vps
[15:41] <SuperMatt> it's enough for me
[15:42]  * diddledan hides his monster
[15:42] <diddledan> I've got a dedicated unit at hetzner
[15:42] <SuperMatt> and now I'm looking in to getting a class 2 ssl cert
[15:42] <diddledan> is that physical-address-validated?
[15:42] <SuperMatt> yup
[15:43] <diddledan> I've got a wildcard ssl cert that's domain validated
[15:43] <SuperMatt> well I'm trying to get the wildcard bit
[15:43] <SuperMatt> cos I've got a number of certs right now
[15:44] <diddledan> I can't remember who I went with for mine now
[15:44] <diddledan> hopefully they'll email me when it comes to renewal
[15:45] <diddledan> looks like it was a geotrust reseller
[15:53] <diddledan> so how does one keep gpg keyrings in sync across several devices?
[15:53] <shauno> I don't.  if I need a key, it's on the keyserver
[15:54] <shauno> seems little benefit in curating my own personal stash
[15:55] <diddledan> what about syncing your own key tho, say you get it signed by someone at oggcamp how do you ensure all your devices have that signed version as opposed to the naked version?
[15:57] <shauno> don't you get the your public key signed?
[15:57] <shauno> so that'd just go back to the keyserver too
[15:57] <diddledan> hmm
[15:57] <diddledan> furry nuff
[16:20] <diddledan> damned clients. damn them all to having clients of their own!
[16:21] <diddledan> latest issue is we have a client that tells us our code doesn't work but doesn't tell us how it's not working
[16:21] <diddledan> just sends screenshots with nothing indicating what's actually wrong. just a screenshot of a webpage in IE.
[16:22] <diddledan> we're supposed to determine exactly what's wrong with that with no other hints
[16:22] <bigcalm> Best to have a phone call with the client
[16:23] <diddledan> yeah, I might try that tomorrow, but I'm supposed to be on a different job that's rush rush
[16:42] <joshmyers> hey guys, I want to pass arguments into a simple bash script, but I would like to set some sane default for of the arguments are not passed in. How could I do that here? https://gist.github.com/2429412bc9c7deaadb5e
[16:46] <shauno> stage=${1:-"Default"}
[16:47] <shauno> not the prettiest construct, but effective
[16:48] <joshmyers> ah ok
[16:48] <joshmyers> great thanks shauno
[16:48] <joshmyers> and I can do that for any of the arguments
[16:49] <shauno> yeah.  and you can mix the literal & vars too, so stage=${1:-$defaultstage}, etc
[16:49] <shauno> the '1' is the same one from $1, you're just saying "$1 or else $defaultstage"
[16:50] <joshmyers> ok gotcha
[16:50] <joshmyers> like this: https://gist.github.com/50be6aa6c77f3c6ef6de
[16:51] <shauno> you got it
[16:51] <joshmyers> awesome, muchos thanks
[18:18] <ali1234> argh... just don't write complex stuff like that in bash
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> yeah, use perl instead
[18:20] <ali1234> eh... i'd prefer that tbh
[18:21] <ali1234> perl fits that niche pretty well... of things to complex for a shell script but not quite complicated enough for a real programming language
[18:27] <Myrtti> uh, I'm having a slow moment
[18:27] <Myrtti> but
[18:27] <Myrtti> http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/myrtti/9512199206/
[18:29] <Myrtti> should I try fsck -A?
[18:30] <ali1234> what have you got to lose?
[18:31] <ali1234> you should probably image the entire drive before attempting repair if there is anything important on it
[18:31] <Myrtti> I don't know, I've never manually run fsck before
[18:32] <Myrtti> well.
[18:32] <Myrtti> here goes nothing
[18:37] <Myrtti> time to do backups
[18:39] <Myrtti> so yeah
[18:39] <Myrtti> managed to fix it with fsck but taking backups
[18:42]  * neuro larts davmor2
[18:43] <davmor2> neuro: stick frankie boyle in too for good measure then at least one of the proclaimers is going :)
[18:44] <neuro> but frankie boyle wasn't in The Thick of It
[18:44] <davmor2> neuro: true
[18:44] <neuro> which was kind of my point
[18:48] <davmor2> neuro: I still stand by my statement you have too much time on your hands :P
[18:48] <neuro> err a thought that took 5 seconds to come to, and another 60 seconds to send the tweet?
[18:48] <neuro> i never understand these sort of comments ... "you have too much time on your hands" ... "go outside and get a life" ... etc
[18:49] <davmor2> neuro: too much time I tell you far to much
[18:53] <christel> one of our staffers, kloeri, looks exactly like the proclaimers
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> christel: would he walk 500 miles?
[18:55] <brobostigon> lol.
[18:55] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: more important would he walk 500 more?
[18:56] <christel> he totally would!
[18:56] <christel> ;)
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> And would he do it so he can be the man who walked 1000 miles to fall down at your door?
[18:57] <christel> no :(
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> Speaking of this.. has everyone seen the latest xkcd what-if?
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> http://what-if.xkcd.com/58/
[18:57] <davmor2> wouldn't you fall at a door if you just walked a 1000 miles :D
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: a mile a day is very doable.
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: it'll take 2.5 years.. but it's doable
[18:58] <davmor2> neuro: I take it back MartijnVdS has way too much time on his hands you only had some time on yours :)
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I do? :)
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> \o/ XBone launch in .nl has been delayed already.
[19:02] <neuro> what is this "xbone" of which you speak?
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> neuro: the thing you pre-ordered.. XBox 180
[19:02] <neuro> didn't order one of those
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> neuro: Isn't that the new XBox MS are launching?
[19:05] <neuro> which is called the Xbox One
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> Yeah, and because Microsoft changed a lot about the game-loading and online/sharing bits after Sony announced the PS4, poeple started calling it the "XBox one-eighty"
[19:06] <neuro> whatever :)
[19:06] <davmor2> surely an xbone is either soil or ash
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> also, people call it "xbone", for "XBox ONE"
[19:06] <neuro> yes, i know
[19:06] <neuro> i'm not one of those people
[19:06] <neuro> i'm also not one of those people who say "Micro$oft"
[19:06] <neuro> or "Crapple"
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> When did I say "Micro$oft"?
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> (yeah just now)
[19:07] <neuro> you didn't
[19:07] <neuro> but it's the same idea
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> neuro: what about micros~1? ;)
[19:07] <neuro> never did that either
[19:07] <neuro> it's childish
[19:07] <davmor2> neuro: wait a minute I've never seen you and RMS in the same room are you sure you don't say Crapple as your alter ego ?
[19:08] <neuro> i've met rms and there were witnesses, so let's just put that conspiracy theory to rest :)
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> neuro: you're his puppeteer?
[19:09]  * neuro wanders off to watch the football
[20:31] <mungbean> i was gonna do stuff tonight :(
[20:32] <mungbean> feel like i've been hit by the tired stick.
[21:00] <neuro> well, that was a shame
[21:00] <neuro> but a good game nonetheless
[21:28] <ali1234> wow, i didn't know the radio times even had a website
[21:42] <shauno> I sometimes wonder if even the bbc know how many websites they own
[21:45] <ali1234> wouldn't surprise me if the streaming site they intended to block was being run on the side by some bbc IT bod
[21:53] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps:)
[21:55] <diddledan> can someone tell me if they're getting nginx reporting "bad gateway" on dev.openwrt.org? I can't seem to access it atm
[21:55] <shauno> it seems to be much easier than that.  a blocked site creates a dns record under their domain, pointing to an innocent third-party.  you then try to visit that record from within the block, and the IP gets added to The List
[21:56] <bigcalm> diddledan: taking a long time to get a response from that URL
[21:56] <diddledan> bigcalm, thanks
[21:56] <shauno> that's how they got torrentfreak blocked last week
[21:56] <diddledan> it's not just me then :-)
[21:56] <bigcalm> 504 Gateway Time-out
[21:57] <diddledan> shauno, huh?
[21:58] <diddledan> shauno, you sense make no
[21:59] <ali1234> diddledan: he was replying to me, not you :P
[21:59] <diddledan> ali1234, even so, it doesn't make much sense afaict
[21:59] <ali1234> yeah it does
[22:00] <ali1234> what happens is they order a block on the ip of www.piratedownloadz.com
[22:00] <ali1234> so them www.piratedownloadz.com just gets a new IP. then they block that
[22:00] <ali1234> so then they point their hostname and some legit site, and the autofilters block that
[22:01] <ali1234> that's the simple version anyway
[22:01] <ali1234> but i'm not so sure that's what happened here
[22:02] <ali1234> it looks like a lot of sites are all on the one IP for some reason - maybe nt though, i dunno
[22:02] <shauno> that's what happened to torrentfreak earlier in the week, and seems easily repeatable
[22:02] <ali1234> yeah
[22:02] <diddledan> torrentfreak got blocked by some blocked site pointing to it? o_O
[22:03] <ali1234> yeah the filtering software is basically a minimal effort, possibly even designed to fail
[22:03] <diddledan> two birds one stone
[22:04] <diddledan> torrentfreak surely should have been blocked anyway?
[22:04] <ali1234> why? it's just a news site
[22:04] <diddledan> really?
[22:05] <diddledan> I wouldn't know, I don't frequent underground sites
[22:05] <ali1234> torrentfreak isn't an underground site
[22:05] <ali1234> it's just a blog, like slashdot
[22:05] <diddledan> "torrent" is classed as underground by "the man"
[22:06] <diddledan> like kazzaa
[22:06] <ali1234> http://torrentfreak.com/radiotimes-com-blocked-by-uk-isps-due-to-rightsholder-error-130814/
[22:07] <ali1234> "According to PC Pro,  the problems were not caused by an EZTV-style DNS issue, but a  long-feared problem – that sites with shared resources would be all fall  victim to overbroad blocking."
[22:07] <shauno> the official line is that radiotimes was actually sharing an IP with "a naughty site".  which seems implausible, since radiotimes is half on akamai (if that'd been blocked we'd notice), and half inside a netblock owned by the BBC
[22:07] <diddledan> there was nothing illegal about kazzaa just like there's nothing illegal about torrent but the association caused by illegal use causes people to see "torrent" and assume it's illegal
[22:07] <ali1234> yeah, that's what seems implausible about it to me too
[22:07] <ali1234> my ISP doesn't participate in any of this nonsense anyway
[22:07] <diddledan> mine either
[22:08] <diddledan> and if it did I'd move
[22:08] <diddledan> I use third-party dns resolvers, too
[22:08] <shauno> mine block tpb, but nothing else yet
[22:09] <shauno> (but they at least dragged it through the courts first, instead of just rolling over like the other big ISP here)
[22:09] <diddledan> bt, virgin and sky are all rolling over and playing dead
[22:10] <diddledan> they don't care whether it's censorship as long as consumers pay them
[22:10] <mibofra_cell> diddledan oh hi :)
[22:11] <diddledan> moo
[22:12] <diddledan> I like aaisp's response to david "dictator" cameroon's great smutwall
[22:13] <shauno> I'm hoping that'll end up an acceptable response.  be nice to see people acting like adults for a change
[22:13] <diddledan> https://order.aa.net.uk/h1order.cgi <-- see the "active choice" section
[22:13] <diddledan> in fact, that's not the right one
[22:15] <shauno> as I understand it, the govt position is "play ball or we'll have to create legislation.  and you know how messy that'll be" ?
[22:15] <diddledan> yeah
[22:15] <diddledan> it sucks
[22:15] <ali1234> oh great, the smb client in nautilus is broken
[22:15] <ali1234> smbclient -L -U works fine, nautilus just asks for a password over and over
[22:15] <diddledan> either "do it like we said, or we'll make you do it like we said"
[22:16] <shauno> that makes things like AA's response awkward, because it might work today, but we don't know if it'll count as "playing ball" yet
[22:17] <diddledan> see, it worries me because I obviously need to click the "yes, tell the government I'm a pervert" button
[22:17] <mibofra_cell> diddledan did you rember my problem with minecraft? It was a problem by mojang auth xD . 1)desabilitated auth control on server 2)after I've recived an mail from mojang that said my account was abilitated to multiplayer game xD
[22:18] <mibofra_cell> And I was going crazy with java and ufw xD
[22:18] <diddledan> mibofra_cell, not really, no
[22:18] <mibofra_cell> Ok so that's the conclusion
[22:18] <diddledan> shauno probably has a good simile for the way my memory works
[22:18] <mibofra_cell> *anyway
[22:18] <shauno> it doesn't.
[22:18] <diddledan> bingo!
[22:19]  * Monotoko sighs
[22:19] <Monotoko> I hate IRC sometimes
[22:19] <diddledan> Monotoko, sorry
[22:19] <Monotoko> not you :P
[22:19] <diddledan> :-p
[22:19] <ali1234> mibofra_cell: i remember
[22:19] <ali1234> glad you sorted it
[22:20] <Monotoko> vital emergency at work... postfix appeared to be bouncing everything, I've barely touched postfix in my life so I couldn't figure out why
[22:20] <Monotoko> all I got was RTFM
[22:20] <diddledan> ergh
[22:20] <ali1234> stack exchange is usually pretty helpful with postfix
[22:20] <ali1234> not much use in a hurry tho
[22:21] <diddledan> yeah, sometimes real-time help can be less approachable than the qmail crowd
[22:21] <Monotoko> IRC is the most use in a hurry if you can get someone to help... I ended up restoring the postfix conf from a backup
[22:21] <Monotoko> which appeared to fix it
[22:21] <ali1234> if i had to run postfix servers i would be angry too (angrier)
[22:21] <diddledan> begs the question what changed
[22:21] <ali1234> maybe just a restart?
[22:21] <Monotoko> tried a restart
[22:22] <Monotoko> and a hard reboot
[22:22] <Monotoko> (never a good idea on a live server)
[22:22] <diddledan> ali1234, what do you run mailwise if anything?
[22:22] <ali1234> diddledan: whatever you get on an ubuntu server
[22:22] <ali1234> and i just let it get on with it
[22:22] <diddledan> ali1234, postfix
[22:22] <ali1234> i don't use it for receiving
[22:22] <Monotoko> it gets mail, connects to MySQL then forwards it to whichever address is in the mysql table
[22:22] <diddledan> :-p
[22:22] <ali1234> only sending out wordpress sign up emails etc
[22:23] <diddledan> aah
[22:23] <Monotoko> and suddenly it decided "user not found" for everyone
[22:23] <ali1234> for real mail, i use gmail
[22:23] <diddledan> yeah it's pretty fire and forget for that
[22:23] <ali1234> even so, it's caused me problems
[22:23] <ali1234> minor ones, which i was eventually able to solve, but problems none the less
[22:23] <Monotoko> is there any kind of simple interface to postfix, or something smaller which is easier to use?
[22:25] <diddledan> Monotoko, postfix is about the easiest of the smtpd available afaict
[22:25] <Monotoko> >.<
[22:25] <diddledan> sendmail is evil
[22:25] <diddledan> exim is weird
[22:25] <diddledan> and qmail is outdated
[22:26] <diddledan> although I like the architecture of qmail
[22:26] <Monotoko> I wish that was the worst of it
[22:26] <Monotoko> this is the SQL query it runs: http://pastebin.com/biNLSAGC
[22:27] <Monotoko> I looked at that and had to step outside for a smoke
[22:27] <Monotoko> felt like not returning at that point
[22:27] <diddledan> erm
[22:27] <ali1234> i can totally understand the whole NOSQL thing
[22:28] <diddledan> ...
[22:28] <ali1234> not that the alternatives are really any better
[22:29] <diddledan> those where split_str() bits are nuts
[22:30] <Monotoko> diddledan, I can run a basic SELECT, even throw a few JOIN's in there and some UNION's and I'm generally okay
[22:30] <Monotoko> but that
[22:30] <diddledan> I'm betting that sql query takes a long time to run
[22:30] <Monotoko> that makes me cry
[22:30] <Monotoko> I haven't really checked how long it takes, postfix runs it
[22:31] <diddledan> it looks like it's three very similar queries unioned together
[22:32] <Monotoko> we had a Merlyn in the company before I arrived... he wrote it, quite a fitting name I think
[22:33] <Monotoko> There used to be three sysadmins apparantly, they quit around the same time and my boss only hired me -.-
[22:33] <diddledan> ouch
[22:34] <Monotoko> I'm dealing with Win2k machines, classic ASP, Win2k8 and various Linux boxes with squid and some with whole applications on them
[22:34] <diddledan> I can trump that. gentoo
[22:35] <diddledan> :-p
[22:35] <Monotoko> we have an Arch Linux box!
[22:35] <Monotoko> :P
[22:35] <diddledan> hehe
[22:35] <Monotoko> I was told I'd only be working with Perl and Debian 95% of the time... how much of a lie that was
[22:35] <diddledan> does classic asp even get any security patch exposure?
[22:36] <everydaylinuxuse> does anyone ever end up doing the job they were hired to do
[22:36] <Monotoko> it's running on IIS 5... securitymetrics gave it the highest possible fail it could
[22:36] <diddledan> yey
[22:36] <Monotoko> it's running behind a squid box thankfully... but I'm sure any competant user could work their way in
[22:37] <Monotoko> it's a dead service... still brings in some money, and was the flagship product that started the company in '97
[22:37] <Monotoko> way past it's prime and not worth upgrading, but my boss wants it left running