[00:16] <agliodbs> is it just me, or is ubuntu getting steadily harder to use on laptops?
[00:51] <pleia2> agliodbs: could you be a bit more specific? :)
[00:52] <agliodbs> pleia2: I keep encountering things which used to be easy to do on 10.04, which are now very hard to do on 12.10
[00:52] <agliodbs> pleia2: most of the time, it's because various GUIs have dropped controls I need
[00:52] <pleia2> such as..?
[00:53] <agliodbs> pleia2: try to import an OpenVPN profile on 12.10
[00:53] <agliodbs> there was a GUI for that in 10.04
[00:53] <agliodbs> now there's not
[00:53] <pleia2> I thought network manager handled openvpn stuff these days
[00:54] <pleia2> (I still use flat config files myself)
[00:54] <agliodbs> pleia2: the new network manager is missing controls which the old one used to have.  including the Import button
[00:54] <agliodbs> another example
[00:54] <pleia2> have a link to the bug report?
[00:57] <pleia2> would be a good one to follow up on
[00:57] <agliodbs> in the old Launcher, I could change the parameters of how programs launched by right-clicking the icons
[00:57] <agliodbs> in the new Dash, I can only change it by editing the .desktop files on the command line
[00:57] <pleia2> yeah :\
[00:57] <agliodbs> pleia2: lemme see if anyone has reported it
[00:57] <agliodbs> pleia2: it just seems like nobody is doing any UI testing anymore
[00:57] <pleia2> agliodbs: if not, it would be great if you could, losing features is bad and putting them back should be a priority
[00:57] <pleia2> submit a bug that is
[00:57] <pleia2> and UI testing has increased a *ton* these past releases (in addition to a bigger community team, Canonical employs several folks as well) but they only focus on what is useful to them :\
[00:57] <pleia2> something like missing featutres in openvpn canbe missed, particularly when development is done upstream (like in an app like netweork manager)
[00:58] <pleia2> the dash bug is unfortunate, I guess they just thought that they could do more useful things for every day users with right click than giving the ability to edit the command (which is a somewhat advanced option)
[00:58]  * pleia2 actually uses xubuntu though, always has
[00:59] <agliodbs> pleia2: yeah, I just feel like I can't upgrade my father-in-law from 10.04
[00:59] <agliodbs> pleia2: many things have gone from having GUI ways to fix them, to only being able to be fixed on the command line
[00:59] <pleia2> I found in general that things are easier to use, but my needs tend to be really simple or really complex (can't be fixed with a gui anyway)
[01:00] <pleia2> but I'm not by any means a normal person :)
[01:00] <pleia2> well, by some metrics, I do have two eyes and 4 limbs and all
[01:00] <agliodbs> heh
[01:00] <agliodbs> dammit
[01:00] <agliodbs> they changed the login on launchpad
[01:00] <agliodbs> I'm gonna have to go through the whole password retrieval thing
[01:01] <pleia2> looks the same to me
[01:02] <pleia2> other services did switch to ubuntu single sign on though
[01:02] <agliodbs> pleia2: yeah, if you wanna report a bug, you now need to use your UbuOne account
[01:04] <pleia2> ah, weird
[01:05] <agliodbs> pleia2: actually, they've made it completely impossible to create a new bug
[01:05] <pleia2> agliodbs: are you using "ubuntu-bug" ?
[01:06] <agliodbs> if you click on "report a bug" in Launchpad, you get redirected to a wiki page
[01:06] <pleia2> shouldn't use the web interface these days, it can't collect system information and reports end up being mostly useless
[01:06] <agliodbs> which does NOT include the ability to report bugs
[01:06] <pleia2> ubuntu-bug at the command line is what you want :)
[01:07] <agliodbs> pleia2: no good, because I'd have to spend time carefully checking over what data it was sending
[01:07] <agliodbs> required to by client agreements
[01:07] <agliodbs> and system information isn't necessary to report *this* bug
[01:08] <pleia2> ah :\
[01:08] <agliodbs> I'm giving up.  Ubuntu has successfully thrown enough obstacles in my way that it's not worth the effort to report a bug
[01:08] <agliodbs> ... which explains why nobody else reported this bug, either
[01:09] <pleia2> ubuntu-bug was supposed to make things easier :(
[01:10] <agliodbs> yeah, fail
[01:10] <agliodbs> pleia2: this is yet another example of what I'm talking about
[01:10] <pleia2> I see
[01:10] <agliodbs> Ubuntu, overall, is harder to use than it was 2 years ago
[01:12] <agliodbs> pleia2: incidentally, when I type "ubuntu-bug" in dash, nothing comes up
[01:12] <pleia2> you run it from the command line
[01:13] <pleia2> I thought the link that launchpad gives for reporting bugs in ubuntu explained all of this
[01:13] <agliodbs> pleia2: it tells me to type it into Dash
[01:13] <pleia2> ah (again, don't use Unity here :))
[01:13] <agliodbs> pleia2: and might I point out the irony of requiring users to run a commandline program to report a bug?
[01:14] <pleia2> I'm not sure why it's not working
[01:14] <pleia2> clearly we need a bug for the bug tool not launching :D
[01:15] <agliodbs> yeah, catch-22
[17:05] <agliodbs> all: https://t.co/2ENiHOph2s
[17:05] <darthrobot> Title: [Error reading title]
[17:05] <agliodbs> discuss
[17:36] <bkerensa> pleia2: apparently atul jha from the community is coming to SF this weekend too
[17:36] <bkerensa> :)
[18:33] <pleia2> bkerensa: yeah, he's been telling me for months ;)
[18:33] <pleia2> (he works on openstack too these days)
[18:49] <bkerensa> pleia2: yeah :D
[23:02] <bkerensa> pleia2: http://signup.communitysysadmins.org/
[23:02] <darthrobot> Title: [COMMUNITYSYSADMINS.ORG - connecting sysadmins with organizations]
[23:02] <bkerensa> :D