[01:38] <OvenWerks> !pastebin
[01:40] <OvenWerks> For those who care... http://imagebin.org/267491
[01:42] <OvenWerks> This doubles the amount of code, but gets rid of the terminal completely.
[01:43] <OvenWerks> still left to do: handle the case if someone hits cancel or change the zenity commandlineso it doesn't show at all if I can.
[02:29] <OvenWerks> no such commandline option :P
[03:14] <OvenWerks> smartboyhw: how does this look? http://imagebin.org/267491
[03:15] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, +1
[03:15] <OvenWerks> Twice the code of course
[03:15] <OvenWerks> But still not a lot
[03:16] <OvenWerks> I still need to build a handler for the case where the user hits cancel :P
[03:17] <OvenWerks> I dialog explaining why they should not interupt an install and what they will need to do to fix it if they insist :)
[03:17] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, oh:P
[03:20] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, what's the bzr branch of ubuntustudio-installer?
[03:22] <OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-installer
[03:22] <OvenWerks> but the gui progress bar is not in there yet.
[03:22] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, oh:(
[03:22] <smartboyhw> Boo
[03:22] <OvenWerks> I am waiting for review on what is there... not sure if I want to disturb that
[03:23] <OvenWerks> I still have some more local testing to do too.
[03:24] <OvenWerks> I didn't want to do endless installs for testing so I piped the apt-get output to a file and cat that into my program till I got the gui working right.
[03:26] <OvenWerks> Next I have to do the error handler(s) for goofy things the user might do... then I can enable apt-get for test.
[03:28] <OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I need to get this in before FF as well as the menu as one depends on the other.
[03:28] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, OK
[06:42] <cub> xequence, that multimedia meeting on Debconf would be very interesting. Take notes! :D
[06:54] <xequence> cub: I'm the only one in the team going there pretty much.
[06:54] <xequence> since I have something to bring from Ubuntu Studio, I'm hoping I could take a leading role in designing the metas
[06:55] <cub> That would be great. Funny since I asked about that just days ago. :P
[06:56] <xequence> cub: The idea has been around for a while, but not many havge shown interest
[06:56] <cub> we'll see how it goes this time around then
[07:00] <cub> xequence, I can't remember, but you did get access to the twitter account right?
[07:20] <xequence> cub: I have access to it now, yes
[07:20] <xequence> not using it separately, though I suppose we could
[07:22] <cub> No it just came up yesterday in another discussion
[07:23] <cub> though you being at debconf would be a good opportunity
[07:44] <xequence> So much stuff floating around right now. I think wew could do updates on our development progress. The webshop is coming up. Things like that
[07:46] <cub> We have a combined PR & Support team? :D And a separate web team.
[07:47] <cub> I wouldn't say that PR and support are really that related. Yes, good support is great PR but … well
[07:47] <xequence> The web team is for designing and maintaining the actual web site
[07:47] <xequence> IN our case, PR and support are
[07:47] <xequence> since we communicate with users directly
[07:48] <xequence> our social sites can do both PR and support
[07:48] <xequence> the LP team gives people access to our website
[07:48] <xequence> as moderators
[07:49] <xequence> But I guess we could expand PR beyond our own channels
[07:50] <xequence> and in that case, it would be more separated
[07:50] <cub> I think so. There's much one could do, but as always. It needs people that have time and skill for it.
[07:50] <xequence> yes, but its good to call for that sort of thing specifically too
[07:50] <xequence> make some plans and try to get someone to work on it
[07:51] <cub> holstein and ttoine is already on it?
[07:51] <cub> I mean planning.
[07:51] <xequence> not really
[07:52] <xequence> holstein is mainly doing support
[07:52] <xequence> ttoine is mainly working on our webshop right now
[07:52] <xequence> The only one doing planning here is probably me
[07:53] <xequence> in a broader scope that is
[07:53] <cub> hehe among the other 124 things?
[07:53] <xequence> madeinkobaia has some great ideas on the art department, also about structuring it
[07:55] <xequence> hoping he'll have time to work on that during this next cycle
[07:55] <cub> hmm Lubuntu and Xubuntu has stickers availble at http://www.unixstickers.com/
[07:55] <cub> I'd slap a Ubuntu Studio logo on my laptops if they were available.
[07:56] <xequence> yeah, we should get that
[07:57]  * cub is still waiting for the shirts and mug to show up
[07:57] <cub> xequence, how long was the delivery to you?
[07:57] <xequence> phew, I have an exam coming up next week. need to study some hours each day for that. need to start doing that now
[07:57] <xequence> cub: 2-3 days
[07:57] <cub> hmm it's been a week for me now. I'm impatient.
[07:58] <xequence> maybe four for the cup
[07:58] <xequence> a week sounds too long
[07:58] <cub> exams….doh, I should contact my Uni to postpone for another year. :/
[07:58] <xequence> cub: You study at the university?
[07:59] <cub> Beteendevetenskap at Mittuniversitet
[07:59] <cub> semi-distance courses
[07:59] <cub> but I did the first year 100% as well as work 100%, which became a bit much when we got a kid. :P
[08:00] <xequence> I can imagine :P
[08:00] <cub> You can only do 200% for so long.
[08:00] <xequence> ttoine should look at unixstickers
[08:01] <xequence> he's the one sitting on the legal stuff, so its better he takes care of that
[08:01] <cub> hmm my order is still "In production" meaning it's not even shipped yet..gaaah
[08:01] <xequence> madeinkobaia needs to do the artwork for it, or if he can't, I do it, since I have a pretty good idea of how it's done now
[08:01] <cub> yeah, or a similar EU based company. :P Taxes and stuff...
[08:01] <xequence> cub: Ah,ok
[08:03] <cub> holstein, is there room in the topic for #ubuntustudio to ask people to stick around a bit when asking questions? Seems many leave in frustration when noone answer within a couple of minutes.
[09:21] <knome> cub, i don't think that helps a lot. people do the same on #xubuntu
[09:22] <cub> probably
[09:35] <cub> How come the "standard" keyboard shortcut ctrl+alt-t doesn't open a terminal in Ubuntu Studio?
[11:29] <smartboyhw> xequence, hmm I can't get one thing to work: The -rt package keeps on overwriting the control files...
[11:29] <smartboyhw> And making the -image package disappear...
[11:52] <xequence> smartboyhw: Cant help you until at least after FF with that. Too many other things to do right now
[12:08] <astraljava> Hey smartboyhw, I've been alright, somewhat anyway. Very busy, now with 2 jobs and restarting my studies in order to find a better one that would eliminate the need to have multiple. =) And how have you been?
[12:10] <cub> That sounds like busy indeed, astraljava !
[12:11] <cub> astraljava, what are you studying?
[12:14] <smartboyhw> astraljava, oh good:) I'm great here also:)
[12:35] <knome> i'd still say the thing keeping astraljava actually busy is something else than the two jobs and studies ;)
[12:35] <knome> but that's just my interpretation...
[12:35] <smartboyhw> knome, i.e. ?
[12:35] <smartboyhw> :P
[12:35] <knome> a lady+
[12:35] <knome> ?
[12:36] <smartboyhw> Oh...Oh...Oh...Oh...Oh...Oh...
[12:36] <smartboyhw> astraljava, sigh:P
[12:36] <knome> it is to my best intentions to keep astraljava busy with the lady though :P
[12:37] <cub> dangerous stuff that. Time consuming and need prioritations. ;)
[12:38]  * smartboyhw wonders why this channel suddenly became a gossip channel:P
[12:38] <knome> lots of invaluable benefits, too
[12:39] <knome> smartboyhw, didn't you notice this became #ubuntustudio-gossip when i joined?
[12:39] <smartboyhw> knome, ok, then I should op and kick you for being the person who starts the gossip...:P
[12:39] <xequence> This channel is less formal than most, and I think that's quite ok
[12:39] <smartboyhw> I know, LOL
[12:39] <smartboyhw> ：P
[12:39] <smartboyhw> xequence, how's Debconf?
[12:40] <knome> besides... is first-hand information told to others when concerning party is around considered gossip anyway?
[12:40] <xequence> smartboyhw: Today is fiedl trip day. I dont have time to go hiking, so I stayed at home
[12:40] <smartboyhw> xequence, it's field trip day, and you have NO time? :(
[12:40] <smartboyhw> knome, your choice....
[12:41] <xequence> This is like a vacation from vacation, so I can do some work
[12:42] <cub> xequence, sound like Inception. A vacation within a vacation that end up being work.
[12:43] <smartboyhw> xequence, you made me feel like you are my Dad:O
[12:46] <xequence> Well, I'm probably not as busy as I should be, but one tries
[12:46] <knome> smartboyhw, what if he *is* your dad?
[12:47] <smartboyhw> xequence, it makes me remember my Christmas holidays, never got to enjoy it since exam's directly after it
[12:47] <smartboyhw> knome, bah:P
[12:47] <smartboyhw> I mean, he is my lifelong mentor for sure
[12:47] <smartboyhw> But DAD, uh hum
[12:47] <xequence> cub: Maybe I'm actually on vacation from a vacation from a vacation, but I didn't realize I was asleep
[12:47] <smartboyhw> knome, insulting other's father is NOT a good idea
[12:47] <knome> smartboyhw, i'm not insulting anyone
[12:48] <smartboyhw> knome, you are directly insulting my Dad that he is xequence sorry
[12:48] <knome> smartboyhw, i'm sorry if i offended you - none meant
[12:48] <smartboyhw> :)
[13:00] <astraljava> knome isn't completely off target here, but yeah, there are _some_ other reasons for that, too. =) cub: I need to finish my Bachelor of Economics, major Information Systems science. Not sure what major I'll pick for my Masters after that, though. Need to figure that out during the fall, too.
[13:08] <xequence> astraljava: Nice feeling when you are progressing, somewhere, anywhere :). Good also to hear you found a special friend.
[13:11] <OvenWerks> xequence: the installer should be a GUI pretty quick. Just one last detail to figgure out.
[13:12] <xequence> OvenWerks: Ok. I'm redoing -controls too, all though it will be extremely simple. It will have a starter for the installer
[13:13] <xequence> I'll put in the ability to administer rt privilege at least
[13:13] <xequence> then we can see about progressing features for 14.04
[13:15] <xequence> OvenWerks: Oh, and make sure that the metas appear both when you start using the desktop file and from terminal
[13:15] <xequence> for some reason it didn't for me
[13:15] <xequence> I never tried installing anything yet
[13:26] <OvenWerks> Ga!, he left!
[13:26] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, LOL
[13:27] <knome> he left, me right
[13:27] <OvenWerks> it is not meant to do what he expects :)
[13:27] <OvenWerks> The SW to show has to be listed on the command line.
[13:28] <knome> OvenWerks, are you talking about some extended UI for ubiquity to install extra packages?
[13:29] <OvenWerks> knome: no
[13:30] <OvenWerks> xequence: have you looked at the man page?
[13:30] <OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-installer needs the names of the packages ti display on the command line :)
[13:31] <OvenWerks> this allows it to be a different installer depending on the desktop file.
[13:32] <OvenWerks> knome: We made desktop files for USC that display extra sw we don't ship that is relevent to the sub menu it shows in.
[13:33] <xequence> OvenWerks: Ah. Well, since it needs an argument, it would make sense for it to give an error message
[13:33] <OvenWerks> But USC is cumbersome
[13:33] <OvenWerks> A usage.
[13:34] <OvenWerks> It is on my list now.
[13:35] <cub> OvenWerks, I did some more test after our discussion yesterday about Orca (for visually impaired). I couldn't get it to work in my 13.04 VM machine. So I tried my 13.04, still no go. 13.04 Live boot on USB, wouldn't start. Installed on my 12.04 laptop, ran ok right away.
[13:35] <xequence> OvenWerks: I'd have it not start the gui at all if no argument was given and give a simple usage, as well as hint to the man page
[13:35] <cub> OvenWerks, will continue to test with saucy to see if it act like 13.04 or 12.04.
[13:35] <OvenWerks> It is not meant ever to be run from command line.
[13:36] <OvenWerks> cub thanks.
[13:36] <xequence> OvenWerks: Anything can be run from the command line
[13:36] <xequence> OvenWerks: It is run using a command
[13:36] <xequence> and it needs an argument to function as intended
[13:36] <OvenWerks> xequence: so that makes sense to not show a blank screen
[13:36] <cub> OvenWerks, could be xfce 4.8 vs 4.10 that creates the issue.
[13:36] <OvenWerks> cub 4.12 is almost out.
[13:37] <cub> yeah
[13:37] <knome> not exactly
[13:37] <cub> but form the release plans I read for 4.10 the support for Orca should have been improved. :P
[13:37] <knome> there is no specific roadmap for the 4.12 release schedule
[13:38] <cub> knome, xubuntu 13.10 might still run 4.10 right?
[13:38] <knome> most probably will
[13:38] <OvenWerks> knome: almost means ..... not yet ;)
[13:39] <xequence> OvenWerks: If it doesn't break anything, and is a useful feature, it should be put in. The less confusion the better. It only took me 10 seconds to think it was broken somehow
[13:39] <knome> i wish it was almost out, using the word "almost" in the sense most people understand it
[13:46] <xequence> OvenWerks: Considering the way the application is designed, only the desktop file seems to be ubuntu studio specific. The application could be named something else entirely - having no desktop file, since it could be used for other things. Then, have a package with a the desktop file "Ubuntu Studio Installer" and have it depend on it
[13:47] <xequence> OvenWerks: The script itself is not Ubuntu Studio specific anyhow, not even multimedia specific. Just a thought
[13:48] <xequence> OvenWerks: I'm gathering you want to add specific desktop files for "extras" having a determined list of extras.
[13:48] <OvenWerks> xequence: yes.
[13:48] <xequence> OvenWerks: That means we need to do an inventory on all multimedia applications each cycle, and adjust those starters
[13:49] <xequence> Very hands on approach
[13:49] <xequence> would be better to use search functions, as I believe is how it is done now with software center
[13:49] <OvenWerks> not just MM, but other art forms, but I think that is what you meant
[13:49] <xequence> MM for me is all types of media
[13:50] <xequence> multimedia content creation applications
[13:50] <xequence> to be more specific
[13:50] <OvenWerks> I am putting the die with usage in for no arguments.
[13:51] <xequence> OvenWerks: Great. We can figure out more details next cycle.
[13:51] <OvenWerks> I also need to catch the user killing the progress bar while install is taking place.
[13:52] <OvenWerks> they need to know that stopping apt-get part way through is not a good idea.
[13:53] <OvenWerks> (or any install)
[13:55] <OvenWerks> xequence: if there is any interest in this outside of ubuntustudio, I have no problem renaming it.
[13:56] <OvenWerks> however the package is in review as is, once it is through that, bugs are easy to fix.
[13:58] <xequence> OvenWerks: Depending on the evolution of the script, if it remains being as generic as it is, I think it would be a good idea to rename it, and use something in the line I described for Ubuntu Studio to make use of it
[13:58] <xequence> We're a bit short in time right now, so better just to run with what we have
[13:58] <OvenWerks> yup
[13:59] <OvenWerks> I think better to have more use than less.
[14:01] <xequence> I like to think in those terms as well
[14:02] <OvenWerks> I started with just installing metas, but by moving the packages to the command line it takes care of our extra installs too. BTW it will not show a package that is not in the repos even if it is on the command line.
[14:03] <OvenWerks> so... I should also print an error and die if none of the packages are in repo.
[14:04] <OvenWerks> And this error should also pop a dialog
[14:13] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, xequence BTW, we are experiencing image build failures the past two days
[14:13] <smartboyhw> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[14:13] <smartboyhw>  cups-filters : Conflicts: ghostscript-cups
[14:13] <smartboyhw>  libavcodec-extra-53 : Conflicts: libavcodec53 but 6:0.8.6-1ubuntu2 is to be installed
[14:13] <smartboyhw>  libavcodec53 : Conflicts: libavcodec-extra-53 but 6:0.8.6ubuntu2 is to be installed
[14:13] <smartboyhw>  libavformat-extra-53 : Conflicts: libavformat53 but 6:0.8.6-1ubuntu2 is to be installed
[14:13] <smartboyhw>  libavformat53 : Conflicts: libavformat-extra-53 but 6:0.8.6ubuntu2 is to be installed
[14:13] <OvenWerks> smartboyhw: any clues why
[14:13] <smartboyhw>  libpostproc-extra-52 : Conflicts: libpostproc52 but 6:0.8.6-1ubuntu2 is to be installed
[14:14] <smartboyhw>  libpostproc52 : Conflicts: libpostproc-extra-52 but 6:0.8.6ubuntu2 is to be installed
[14:14] <smartboyhw>  libswscale-extra-2 : Conflicts: libswscale2 but 6:0.8.6-1ubuntu2 is to be installed
[14:14] <smartboyhw> (Sorry for not pasting it in a link but)
[14:14] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, ^
[14:14] <OvenWerks> Ga!
[14:15] <OvenWerks> The cups one will be generic
[14:15] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, did you change the seeds the past few days?
[14:15] <OvenWerks> no
[14:16] <OvenWerks> It looks like libav has gone thrugh some changes
[14:18] <holstein> cub: let me look and see...
[14:18] <holstein> *re: topic
[14:18] <OvenWerks> smartboyhw: sent it off in a letter to myself...
[14:19] <holstein> cub: add something like "| please be patient"
[14:19] <OvenWerks> smartboyhw: it would actually be helpful just to post the error bits on the dev list seeing as the posts we get have nothing in them. I always forget where to find the build logs.
[14:19] <holstein> or, "your patience is appreciated"?
[14:20] <smartboyhw> holstein, latter one
[14:20] <OvenWerks> holstein: or an answer may take hours :)
[14:20] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, it would be too long that it would basically be spam
[14:20] <OvenWerks> or days... but don't say that
[14:20] <smartboyhw> Maybe we should make it that only you and me and xequence receives the mail but not the others;P
[14:21] <OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I don't mean the whole build log, just the error and only once.
[14:21] <holstein> "ask and patiently wait for an answer"
[14:21] <holstein> ...something about a smaller community?
[14:22] <OvenWerks> smartboyhw: like just the part you put above.
[14:22] <holstein> i'll wait and try and catch cub about it.. i wouldnt mind addressing that in the /topic for sure
[14:23] <smartboyhw> holstein, cub should be back shortly
[14:24] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, we should ask the Ubuntu Release team for that I think
[14:24] <cub> holstein, perhaps, but as knome said it might not help no matter what we write in the topic. People are impatient. :D
[14:24] <holstein> cub: and, the folks who seem to not "get it" seem to not be aware that the topic is there :/
[14:25] <OvenWerks> cub: holstein my irc client only shows the first 80 charactors anyway
[14:25] <cub> hehe yeah that too
[14:25] <holstein> cub: i wouldnt mind addressing the "approriate" quesiton more as well
[14:25] <holstein> folks dont understand what is studio specific
[14:25] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks, your IRC client sucks:P
[14:25] <holstein> and why they might want to ask in #ubuntu or #xubuntu instead.. also, they get redirected from those channels
[14:26] <OvenWerks> I think when I first join a channel it puts the whole thing in.
[14:26] <cub> holstein, true
[14:26] <smartboyhw> holstein, let's wait for xequence to join in the discussion:)
[14:26] <holstein> if someone comes in and says "im running ubuntustudio and cant get my broadcom wifi card to work".. they get redirected back to #ubuntustudio.. and for no good reason
[14:26] <smartboyhw> holstein, yeah
[14:26] <holstein> maybe a link in the topic to specific bot triggers
[14:26] <cub> OvenWerks, yes it does show when joining, but not all notice or bother to read.
[14:26] <holstein> !broadcom
[14:27] <holstein> ^^ for example
[14:27] <smartboyhw> !ubuntustudio
[14:27] <holstein> but, even that bot use is a bit tricky for new folks
[14:27] <OvenWerks> another bot?
[14:27] <holstein> for folks who think of this as "tech support" and dont understand
[14:27] <cub> hmm Digital Audio Workstation, perhaps an update would be in order?
[14:27] <smartboyhw> The problem is that I don't want them storming into #ubuntu-ops complaining about no support..
[14:27] <smartboyhw> #ubuntu-irc
[14:27] <smartboyhw> also
[14:28] <holstein> OvenWerks: i was thinking just a link in the /topic that would state clearly a few things.. like "for help with broadcom type !broadcom" or visit that link.. or whatever
[14:28] <smartboyhw> holstein, the topic will be TOO long
[14:28] <holstein> smartboyhw: they will though.. and have threatened.. but, thats not what the channel is
[14:28] <smartboyhw> We can't just include everything
[14:28] <holstein> its not "/join ubuntstudio for *guaranteed* tech support"
[14:29] <holstein> its a community portal, and folks dont quite get that at first
[14:29] <knome> maybe a shared wiki page explaining where you can get support for specific things would be good
[14:29] <cub> #xfce has "Ask your question and then BE PATIENT AND IDLE FOR A WHILE"
[14:29] <holstein> knome: right? with a bit.ly.. a short thing
[14:29] <cub> hehe capitals ...
[14:29] <smartboyhw> knome, good idea
[14:30] <holstein> i was idle in ubuntustudio for 2 weeks.. and then, i just decided to stay there..
[14:30] <smartboyhw> We can make "Please read *some link* for your issue first before asking"
[14:30] <holstein> that was my initial inspiration for doing irssi in screen.. so i could *always* be in #ubuntustduio
[14:30] <knome> the other option is to simply tell people in #xubuntu to join #ubuntustudio if somebody there would need xfce support
[14:30] <smartboyhw> knome, you mean the opposite?!

[14:30] <holstein> knome: i have a few recruits
[14:30] <knome> i mean, the support people
[14:30] <smartboyhw> holstein, recruits?
[14:30] <smartboyhw> :O
[14:31] <holstein> unit idles there
[14:31] <smartboyhw> Yeah
[14:31] <holstein> and i asked a few others that come and go
[14:31] <knome> ideally, people using ubuntu studio should get support in #ubuntustudio
[14:31] <holstein> its quite helpful
[14:31] <cub> most often they have quit their irc before I can tell them to try #xubuntu or #xfce
[14:31] <holstein> knome: ideally...
[14:31] <smartboyhw> cub, that's a +1
[14:31] <smartboyhw> Not realistically:p
[14:31] <knome> of course that puts more burden for the supporters
[14:31] <holstein> knome: and, really, just having a few warm bodies in there saying "hey, try this, and wait" or whatever..
[14:32] <knome> holstein, exactly, which is why it would help to just tell some supported on #xubuntu to join #ubuntustudio
[14:32] <cub> knome, good point. That might be better than to send the OP to other channels
[14:33] <holstein> knome: any suggestions? unit /join ed when i asked
[14:33] <holstein> everyone has been quite helpful from the xubuntu team... testing iso's and whatnot
[14:33] <knome> holstein, don't know. probably some emails to mailing lists or sth
[14:33] <knome> holstein, or simply poking people who seem to be active on #xubuntu 
[14:33] <holstein> there is a user in #ubuntu that i was trying to ask as well
[14:34] <holstein> ok.. lets try and just get some warm bodies in there then.. and lets think about a page with FAQ's or whatever
[14:34] <holstein> and i'll revamp the /topic as needed..
[14:35]  * holstein asks that user again...
[14:35] <knome> i can try to help with efforts on creating a shared wikipage or whatever, but at this point, i can't promise to lead such an effort
[14:35] <holstein> hes not on.. i asked him in PM and i think he quit before reading it.. that was a few weeks ago, and i got busy
[14:35] <smartboyhw> Normally, it will be xequence who leads our doc efforrt
[14:36] <smartboyhw> holstein, but don't expect him to work on such things before FF, that was what I was told:P
[14:36] <smartboyhw> FF = Feature Freeze
[14:36] <holstein> well, z equence will see the scroll here, and we can discuss.. no need to fragment if we already have an FAQ page that could just be fixed up
[14:37]  * smartboyhw isn't sure about that
[14:37] <cub> Not an FAQ per se, but some good info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio
[14:37] <smartboyhw> holstein, BTW xequence = zequence 
[14:37] <holstein> right.. i just though we werent trying to ping him for some good reason :)
[14:38] <smartboyhw> holstein, we are with a good reason here:P
[14:38] <cub> Then I have found other studio related wiki pages on there that's not linked to ours, I had an ambition to get some work done there during my vacation…but I ended up taking vacation instead.
[14:39] <holstein> whatever we do needs to be simple and easy for us to maintain.. nothing will ultimately work for every user
[14:39] <cub> I do a lot of documentation at work in different formats so when the time is there I could probably gather what we find, that is not already in there
[14:39] <holstein> ive dont a lot of support on IRC, and 96% or so is knowing how to use google...
[14:39] <cub> I usually spend most time on Ubuntuforums
[14:39] <holstein> cub: thats great. i *hate* the forums...
[14:40] <holstein> and i rarely chime in on the mailing list
[14:40] <knome> smartboyhw, from my POV, i don't think this is something that needs to be coordinated by any leader; it can be a community-driven project, even more because it needs to be an inter-flavor one
[14:40] <holstein> just when i cant leave something Ralph says alone ;)
[14:40] <cub> irc is harder since I'm usually trying to do other stuff at the same time and doesn't respond fast enough
[14:40] <xequence> cub: Have you been reading through that wiki at all?
[14:40] <holstein> cub: having a strong steady presence in the forums is helpful
[14:41] <holstein> cub: are you a moderator?
[14:41] <cub> xequence, yes, but I get lost after a few clicks
[14:41] <cub> holstein, no, i just jump in where I can.
[14:42] <xequence> cub: Just look through the front page
[14:42] <xequence> cub: There's two places with links to the IRC page
[14:42] <xequence> cub: If you want to add something, do it there
[14:43] <xequence> The idea was always that we add docs to our main site as well
[14:43] <cub> xequence, that's good.
[14:43] <xequence> better first do the docs in the wiki, then move stuff to the main site
[14:43] <holstein> xequence: do we have an FAQ page? something i could easily edit and add a link to on the IRC /topic?
[14:44] <holstein> that might solve a lot of this. assuming a user reads the /topic... which im not sure they do.. or know what that means
[14:44]  * cub just started to read Jono's book on communities
[14:45] <holstein> cub: ive heard its a good read
[14:45] <cub> Is Jejeman on ubuntuforums anyone here? He's very helpful in the forums on studio questions
[14:45] <smartboyhw> knome, inter-flavour?
[14:45] <smartboyhw> Ooh, I didn't realize that:P
[14:46] <smartboyhw> cub, is there a book?
[14:46] <smartboyhw> cub, I don't think so
[14:46] <cub> smartboyhw, http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/ there's a PDF
[14:46] <knome> smartboyhw, yes, the art of community
[14:46] <cub> crap, I'm late, gotta run!
[14:49] <smartboyhw> holstein, knome: I will help write the documentation if you want:)
[14:49] <holstein> smartboyhw: thanks!
[14:49] <knome> smartboyhw, sure, thanks
[14:50] <smartboyhw> knome, holstein so, 1. Where do we want to place the page?
[14:50] <smartboyhw> 2. How are we going to collaborate to write on it?
[14:50] <xequence> holstein: This page is the only one that deals with IRC, and is reachable from both our wikis from the header https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/IRC
[14:51] <holstein> xequence: let me scroll through it real quick
[14:51] <xequence> holstein: It just explains how to get online, and which channels are interesting
[14:51] <xequence> so, if anyone likes, just add stuff there
[14:52] <xequence> Probably best to add that in the beginning
[14:52] <holstein> xequence: would you mind if second there were an "faq" section?
[14:52] <holstein> nothing to elaborate.. 
[14:52] <holstein> i think the shorter the better.. precise.. just a list of common issues and pages that might help
[14:53] <xequence> holstein: You mean like a FAQ for IRC only, on the IRC page?
[14:53] <holstein> broadcom issues? go here..
[14:53] <holstein> xequence: right. like 2nd there
[14:53] <holstein> before or after the webchat link
[14:53] <xequence> holstein: Just add it at the top, I think
[14:53] <holstein> xequence: OR.. it could be down a bit, and i can link to that specific area..
[14:54] <smartboyhw> holstein, nice idea
[14:54] <smartboyhw> holstein, wait, xequence's idea is better
[14:54] <holstein> xequence: i'll play around with it.. 
[14:54] <smartboyhw> Because people don't necessarily HAVE to spend time going to the IRC channel if the specific area is at the top, already answering their question
[14:55] <xequence> Right now, the only problem I see is that people don't realize it might take time before one answers
[14:56] <xequence> just adding a note about that in the beginning, like an introduction to what IRC is would be enough, but it's up to the author
[14:56]  * smartboyhw +1's xequence's idea
[14:57] <holstein> i think i can link to an area down the page easily though.. and if someone hits that page in a google search, it will be more relevant to that person
[15:03] <smartboyhw> xequence, will we have vUDS sessions?
[15:03] <xequence> smartboyhw: When is the next one, do you know?
[15:03] <smartboyhw> xequence, 27-29
[15:03] <smartboyhw> August
[15:03] <xequence> not sure if I'll have time
[15:04] <smartboyhw> No then:P
[15:04] <xequence> we'll see
[15:04] <smartboyhw> xequence, eh?
[15:07] <holstein> OK.. so, this is what i had in mind.. linking from the main channel
[15:07] <holstein> http://bit.ly/usircfaq
[15:07] <holstein> "FAQ for common issues visit http://bit.ly/usircfaq" or something
[15:08] <xequence> holstein: Wait, you want to write a specific page for it?
[15:08] <holstein> then, the IRC link is still "general" enough if its stumbled upon from the internet.. and the folks who read the topic would see a list that we can manage
[15:08] <xequence> Ah, no, sorry
[15:08] <holstein> xequence: i dont think we need one.. if that works for you
[15:08] <smartboyhw> holstein, maybe "Please read FAQ at http://bit.ly/usircfaq before asking" 
[15:08] <xequence> holstein: Yeah, i prefer keeping things minimal
[15:09] <xequence> those who want to see the change need to refresh
[15:09] <xequence> help.ubuntu.com is weird in this way
[15:09] <holstein> yeah, the text is up for debate.. but do you like the linking?
[15:09] <holstein> and the placement on the main page?
[15:09] <holstein> the "general" idea so far?
[15:10] <xequence> holstein: Ah, I thought this was about informing users that they sometimes need to wait
[15:10] <smartboyhw> xequence, I'm wondering if I should update the page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamStructure so cub is included...
[15:10] <xequence> holstein: We should probably link that to another page
[15:10] <holstein> xequence: that will get added as well, and could also be added to that page.. 
[15:10] <xequence> holstein: Something to do with hardware support, let me check
[15:10] <holstein> xequence: sure.. i can undo that or link where ever
[15:10] <xequence> smartboyhw: what teams is cub in?
[15:11] <xequence> smartboyhw: YOu can do it if you want
[15:11] <smartboyhw> xequence, good question:P
[15:11]  * smartboyhw checks
[15:11] <smartboyhw> Who's Luke Kuhn BTW? He's in the contributor team..
[15:11] <smartboyhw> Ah, lukefromdc
[15:11] <smartboyhw> We should check on him on the cinnamon progress...
[15:12] <xequence> holstein: this is better for hardware stuff https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/SupportedHardware
[15:12] <smartboyhw> xequence, cub doesn't seem to be on any teams;(
[15:13] <xequence> holstein: Just add a section about network devices. Now, there's only audio and graphic cards
[15:13] <xequence> smartboyhw: That's what I thought
[15:13] <xequence> so, no reason to update the page
[15:13] <smartboyhw> xequence, yeah, so sad that he hasn't joined;(
[15:13] <xequence> He'll get there
[15:14] <xequence> he just needs to learn a lot of things, as he's still quite new to all of this
[15:15] <smartboyhw> Wow, we actually have 299 team members in ~ubuntustudio LP team
[15:16] <smartboyhw> Unfortunately, the contributor base is still small;(
[15:16] <smartboyhw> 2-3%...
[15:17] <smartboyhw> xequence, I think the biggest problem is to make people STAY...
[15:18] <xequence> people in the ~ubuntustudio LP team aren't really contributors, or have at all expressed the desire to be. For now, that group has one good use, and that is it gives you the right to comment on our website
[15:20] <xequence> I've thought about writing to the members of that group now and again, for informational purposes and to try to get people interested in contributing
[15:20] <xequence> haven't got around to it yet
[15:21] <smartboyhw> xequence, you want me to draft up something?
[15:31] <holstein> ok.. undid changes at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/IRC
[15:32] <holstein> i have http://bit.ly/studiofaq pointint to that page
[15:32] <holstein> i was thinking, ideally much more general though
[15:33] <holstein> like dual head questions
[15:33] <holstein> but, thats a great place to start
[15:36] <smartboyhw> Ow, I want ScottL back on IRC for one day, just for a chat:(
[15:36] <holstein> yeah.. this isnt going to work for what i had in mind
[15:36] <holstein> i would like to link actual frequently asked questions somewhere
[15:36] <holstein> in the topic
[15:37] <holstein> maybe i should just link to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/FAQ and maintain that "better
[15:37] <holstein> xequence: is that OK?
[15:37] <xequence> holstein: Well, this is a hardware support issue, is it not?
[15:38] <xequence> holstein: But I suppose your thinking from a IRC POV, where you add these, I forget the name, like !proaudio
[15:38] <xequence> holstein: Pass me the link to the broadcom stuff, and I'll edit the page
[15:39] <smartboyhw> xequence, did you see my message?
[15:39] <xequence> holstein: The FAQ page could surely need some maintenance
[15:39] <xequence> smartboyhw: sorry, what is it you want to draft?
[15:40] <smartboyhw> xequence, your letter to ~ubuntustudio:P
[15:40] <xequence> smartboyhw: why now
[15:40] <xequence> not#
[15:40] <smartboyhw> xequence, :)
[15:40] <xequence> argh, Swizz kb
[15:40] <smartboyhw> LOL
[15:40] <smartboyhw> xequence, I will send you a draft probably next week
[15:41] <smartboyhw> xequence, BTW, 12.04.3 is NEXT WEEK
[15:41] <smartboyhw> :P
[15:41] <xequence> holstein: There is a hardware section in the FAQ as well
[15:46] <xequence> holstein: What's the link to the broadcom thing?
[15:48] <holstein> !broadcom
[15:48] <holstein> xequence: i was thinking more as a general FAQ for a new user.. but it could be just hardware
[15:48] <holstein> but the questions are not always hardware
[15:48] <holstein> lots of XFCE specific stuff that could have a link
[15:48] <holstein> not that anyone will check or notice the link
[15:49] <xequence> holstein: Ok, so, what you were aiming for was just a general FAQ
[15:49] <xequence> holstein: You could also just point to our help wiki
[15:49] <xequence> ..which includes all of that anyway
[15:50] <holstein> xequence: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio ?
[15:51] <holstein> ok.. i'll go with http://bit.ly/usirchelp for now
[15:51] <holstein> then, that page might get some attention as well..
[15:52] <xequence> holstein: Yes, the first one you linkes
[15:52] <xequence> linked*
[15:56] <holstein>  ok.. how about.. Welcome to the Ubuntu Studio support channel | 13.04 and 12.04.2 Now Released http://ubuntustudio.org/download | Support forum http://ubuntuforums.org | Please be patient and visit http://bit.ly/usirchelp if no one is around | General music making and studio chatter is allowed
[15:56] <holstein> xequence: ^
[15:57] <holstein> then, we can maintain that help page as needed.. adding whatever
[15:57] <holstein> links to existing docs or help pages..
[15:58] <xequence> holstein: Why are you using a hidden link? And, might be good to use http://ubuntustudio.org/documentation, as it links to the same page
[15:59] <xequence> er, no it didn't
[15:59] <holstein> xequence: the size
[16:00] <holstein> let me see if its fits with the normal one
[16:00] <xequence> holstein: Is there a max size?
[16:00] <holstein> yes
[16:00] <holstein> for the topic
[16:00] <holstein> at least, client side...
[16:01] <holstein> xequence: it fit
[16:02] <holstein> i removed the xubuntu links.. added the help link and "patience".. lets try and recruit a few more folks to just sit in there and be a presence and go from there
[16:02] <holstein> xequence: cool?
[16:02] <xequence> holstein: Looks fine to me
[16:02] <holstein> xequence: :)
[16:02] <holstein> i mean, its one of those, "you cant please everyone" kind of things.. but let roll with it
[16:02] <holstein> lets*
[16:02] <xequence> yeah
[16:03] <holstein> and i (or anyone) can just fire up that page and add what is needed.. about broadcom or dual head.. links to resources
[16:04] <holstein> that new users can ignore ;)
[16:04] <xequence> holstein: I added a link to the wifi page in hardware support
[16:05] <holstein> xequence: and that hardware support is linked at that page ...so i think we have a nice system, in theory
[16:05] <xequence> it's not exactly a big wiki
[16:05] <xequence> so, don't really understand why it would be hard to find what you are looking for
[16:06] <holstein> yeah... folks just needa little "in person" help to get started, usually
[16:06] <xequence> I made extra effort on minimizing it, and making it easy to orientate
[16:06] <holstein> depends on where they are coming from
[16:06] <holstein> though, even linux users dont know that they can use ubuntu resources, typically
[16:06] <holstein> xequence: i think you have done *great* with minimizing
[16:06] <holstein> xequence: it was a mess..
[16:06] <xequence> holstein: thanks
[16:06] <holstein> the wiki's in general were so fragmented.. and they look cleaner now
[16:07] <xequence> All of the maintained pages have the same header
[16:07] <xequence> I'm thinking of adding a side pane to the help wiki that will include links to ALL pages in that wiki
[16:07] <xequence> can't get easier than that
[16:08] <xequence> the "dev" wiki, meaning the one at wiki.ubuntu.com has some more navigational stuff in it, since it's a bit richer in content as well
[16:09] <holstein> i need to revisit my wiki page at some point
[16:09] <holstein> i have 8 more shows!.. one more week
[16:09] <holstein> i have a lot of stuff ive been neglecting
[16:10] <xequence> holstein: Are you being creative at all?
[16:10] <xequence> and not just working all the time :)
[16:12] <holstein> xequence: when i can, actually.. its not too much of a creative drain
[16:12] <holstein> xequence: and i do some tech stuff in the middle of shows.. when i have time
[16:17] <xequence> holstein: cool
[18:46] <OvenWerks> xequence: ubuntustudio-installer at branch updated. Commits show changes. Usage included.
[18:46] <OvenWerks> Waiting for PPA to build
[18:54] <OvenWerks> ppa stuff is funny, it emails you to tell you of your upload, but not about the build... which would be more useful.
[18:54] <OvenWerks> I guess it is more of a secuity thing.
[19:05] <OvenWerks> Anyway: ppa:len-ovenwerks/ppa has ubuntustudio-installer with all the changes.
[19:15] <xequence> OvenWerks: I'll check it out right away
[19:22] <xequence> OvenWerks: looks good to me
[19:22] <OvenWerks> command line or from menu too?
[19:22] <xequence> OvenWerks: both
[19:24] <OvenWerks> I need to test in kde and lubuntu as well. Gnome shell and unity are a problem for me just now.
[19:24] <OvenWerks> I'll have to try them out on the new MB
[19:24] <xequence> OvenWerks: I was using gnome-shell. I can't imagine there would be any difference on different DEs, or would there?
[19:25] <OvenWerks> Shouldn't be, as I already confirmed zenity in all.
[19:25] <OvenWerks> Just being through and I have them on disk anyway
[19:26] <OvenWerks> There have sure been a lot of chnages in KDE in a week... over 300
[19:27] <OvenWerks> New qt4 libs a I guess
[19:27] <xequence> Seems like each time there is an update in KDE, they update all the packages
[19:27] <xequence> I see that i the changes mail list. A flood of packages at once
[19:27] <OvenWerks> Yup
[19:40] <xequence> OvenWerks: you haven't thought about becoming an Ubuntu member and also applying for upload rights in the future
[19:44] <OvenWerks> lots more experience needed.
[19:55] <xequence> OvenWerks: Well, sure, but should be managable within the year I think
[19:56] <xequence> OvenWerks: We don't need to know every detail. Just enough to have a grasp on what we need to do for our own packages to begin with
[19:56] <xequence> problems trickle down all the time
[19:58] <xequence> I added the launching ubuntustudio-installer from -controls
[19:58] <xequence> Just need to add at least rt privilege managing to system settings (which was the original -controls), and maybe also keep memlock tuning
[19:59] <xequence> then I'm satisfied as far as releasing it
[20:01] <xequence> OvenWerks: We only need upload rights for our own package set too
[20:11] <cub> Anyone attending http://uds.ubuntu.com/ ?
[20:12] <xequence> cub: Well, it's virtual now, so... But, we are probably not having a session of our own
[20:13] <cub> No I just wondered if someone would listen in on everything. I would like to but the time frame doesn't really fit me
[20:16] <cub> Still, everything should be watchable afterwards
[20:16] <xequence> cub: I attended the last physical UDS, but havent't much followed so much after that. It's good to get an idea of what its like, but I think if you have no particular mission that concerns a session, it might not be worth while to attend
[20:17] <xequence> right, if you don't participate in discussions, you can always watch later
[20:24] <cub> the agenda didn't contain much yet
[21:03] <TheDrums> holstein: Yeah, I've not been much help at all in there, though...
[21:24] <OvenWerks> totem seems to have started working in raring. (at least as a firefox plugin)
[22:01] <holstein> TheDrums: thanks for hanging in there..
[22:03] <OvenWerks> TheDrums: just having someone answer is good. People don't feel ignored :)
[22:04] <holstein> yeah. saying anything at all is helpful, since now, they assume the channel is dead