[02:44] <freeflying> rrrrrrr
[02:55] <freeflying>      /win 24
[17:02] <dholbach> o/
[17:03] <YokoZar> Good morning :)
[17:04] <dholbach> how are you all doing?
[17:04] <dholbach> who do we have here from the doc team?
[17:04] <dsmythies> Doug Smythies is here from oc tem
[17:04] <dholbach> hi dsmythies
[17:04] <pleia2> o/
[17:04] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[17:04] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 15 17:05:02 2013 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[17:05] <YokoZar> Excellent :)
[17:05] <dholbach> #chair dholbach pleia2 YokoZar beuno czajkowski
[17:05] <meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar beuno czajkowski dholbach pleia2
[17:05] <dholbach> #topic Meeting the Doc team
[17:05] <dholbach> hey dsmythies - thanks a lot for turning up
[17:05] <dholbach> how are you doing?
[17:06] <dsmythies> fine. Things are proceeding, but slowly.
[17:06] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted was recently rewritten, so that's a start
[17:07] <dholbach> the Docs team underwent sort of a transition recently - how are things looking? :)
[17:07] <pleia2> unfortunately the team still lacks solid leadership, so decisions mill around a bit
[17:07] <dholbach> which topics are currently under discussion?
[17:08] <YokoZar> The CC is still a "member" of the docs team, isn't it?
[17:08] <pleia2> YokoZar: yeah
[17:08] <pleia2> we own it
[17:08] <dsmythies> Yes, CC owns it, but we have a transition plan
[17:09] <dsmythies> where step 1 was adding new admins
[17:09] <pleia2> dsmythies: a few have been added, do you see a clear person to take over as owner?
[17:10] <dsmythies> No, I don't.
[17:10] <pleia2> that's how I feel too
[17:10] <YokoZar> I believe pleia2 has been most on top of the transition, and I do thank her :)
[17:10] <dholbach> are there lots of important subjects which mill around?
[17:10] <pleia2> bkerensa got off to a good start, but he seems pretty over-committed right now
[17:11] <dsmythies> we seem a bit stalled on the new "getting started" page.
[17:11] <pleia2> yeah, it did get moved over but there are still some outstanding comments about it
[17:11] <dsmythies> for my part of it, I have been busy with smething else.
[17:12] <bkerensa> pleia2: very accurate
[17:12] <dsmythies> For serverguide, we have good plans going forward, which Peter M has put into a blueprint.
[17:12] <bkerensa> pleia2:  I think things will slow down shortly on my other commitments though and allow more time for docs
[17:12] <pleia2> so I think the main problem is that even the new key people involved are very busy :)
[17:12] <dholbach> would it help to ask past committers to lp:ubuntu-docs for a review of the getting started page?
[17:12] <pleia2> dsmythies: server guide is really on top of things, great job with that :)
[17:12] <bkerensa> pleia2: I think a big piece has been the ability to find people to delegate to slowed down
[17:13] <pleia2> dholbach: we've bugged them to their breaking point I think, our next step is asking *new* contributors if they can effectively follow it
[17:13] <bkerensa> pleia2: there was a burst of enthusiasm and then when it came to getting stuff reviewed it slowed down a bit
[17:13] <dholbach> pleia2, ok... good thinking :)
[17:13] <pleia2> and have a team meeting
[17:13] <bkerensa> yes
[17:14] <pleia2> so I'd say in all dsmythies was right on with "proceeding, but slowly.
[17:15] <pleia2> thanks bkerensa
[17:15] <bkerensa> Ideally once we get the getting started complete I think the tasks we have left are really quite easy for those involved to address
[17:15] <bkerensa> docs is mostly maintenance
[17:15] <bkerensa> maintenance + release
[17:15] <dholbach> what would next steps be once the getting started page looks good and you've had a team meeting?
[17:15] <pleia2> that's what we should figure out at the team meeting ;)
[17:15] <dholbach> ok :)
[17:16] <pleia2> the docs need to be updated for 13.10, so probably launching that effort formally
[17:16] <bkerensa> dholbach: so then I would want to improve our tool sets and add a doc to the repo that shows how to do release since I am the only one who knows how
[17:16] <bkerensa> :s
[17:16] <bkerensa> dholbach: nobody every release documented the process so we had to ask a lot of people
[17:16] <dholbach> that sounds like a good idea :)
[17:16] <bkerensa> ever*
[17:16] <pleia2> step 3: download bkerensa's brain
[17:16] <bkerensa> also we need to fix the screenshots script
[17:16] <bkerensa> we cannot update screenshots in doc until we have that fixed :/
[17:16] <pleia2> yeah, that would be good
[17:17] <bkerensa> Perhaps we could do a call for help on that
[17:17] <pleia2> yep
[17:18] <bkerensa> So I think the key things are 1. ) Keep momentum 2.) finish what we set out to do this cycle 3.) Bring in new contributors to continue momentum each cycle
[17:19] <dsmythies> Actually, serverguide is quite behind, (maybe 15% of what needs to be done got done last cycle) it is just that it seems to be doing better than the desktop guide.
[17:20] <dsmythies> The transition from master docs to help.ubuntu.com needs some attention also. I hope to work on it some this cycle, and have alreayd done some.
[17:20] <dholbach> it's good to hear that you seem to have a good idea what's coming up next
[17:21] <dholbach> is there anything the CC could do to help?
[17:23] <dsmythies> I don't think so. Benjamin, what do you think?
[17:23] <dholbach> it's fantastic that you all plunged in and helped getting the team back on track
[17:25] <dsmythies> The gap created by Mat East and Jermey stepping back is enormous. I don't think any of us realized how much those guys did. However, they tended not to write down what they were doing, from the "committer" level.
[17:25]  * pleia2 nods
[17:26] <pleia2> I think bkerensa was able to get most of what we needed via discussion with them on specific procedures though
[17:26] <dholbach> yeah, I can see how that happens :/
[17:26] <bkerensa> so
[17:26] <pleia2> documenting is boring :)
[17:26] <bkerensa> I do not think the CC can help anymore
[17:26] <dholbach> haha
[17:26] <bkerensa> ultimately the CC should feel free to hold the teams hand as long as you all think its neccesary
[17:27] <bkerensa> but I do not think any benefit will come from that
[17:27] <bkerensa> I think pleia2 has been very helpful in encouraging the transition
[17:27] <pleia2> bkerensa: do you see a clear leader to pass along team ownership to?
[17:27] <bkerensa> Not currently no
[17:27] <pleia2> currently that's all the CC is really doing (I'm doing this partially on my own too, less CC)
[17:28] <bkerensa> yeah
[17:28] <bkerensa> I do not want to see us rush into naming a new lead
[17:28] <dholbach> that makes perfect sense
[17:28] <pleia2> ok, so for now CC will remain owner
[17:28] <bkerensa> I think it would be good to find someone when one of us feel were up to it and have demonstrated it
[17:28]  * pleia2 nods
[17:28] <dholbach> cool
[17:29] <dholbach> thanks a bunch to all of you!
[17:29] <bkerensa> thank you all
[17:29] <dholbach> I don't have any more questions - anyone else from the CC?
[17:29] <pleia2> thanks everyone
[17:29] <dsmythies> More on the serverguide side of it, we are tryiing to write everything down, such that is we disappear what to do is clearly documented.
[17:30] <dholbach> all right... seems like not
[17:30] <dholbach> keep up the good work! :)
[17:31] <dholbach> #topic Any other business?
[17:31] <dholbach> Does anyone have any other topics to discuss?
[17:31] <dsmythies> I just want to mention something...
[17:31] <dholbach> dsmythies, sure
[17:33] <dsmythies> we are hoping to post all langusges of serverguide to help.ubuntu.com for 13.10. This would then be the same as the desktop guide. Currently only english serverguide is posted. However, there are issues with some languages, that might take longer than 13.10 to sort out.
[17:34] <dholbach> dsmythies, are the problems well-understood?
[17:35] <dsmythies> No, at least not by me. There are bugs reports. However, my thinking was to get it wokring for all langusges first, and then proceed to fix the ones that do not convert properly.
[17:36] <dholbach> ok, that's good to know - if the bugs are at least filed
[17:36] <dholbach> maybe it'd help to ask for help getting them fixed in a blog entry or something?
[17:37] <dsmythies> ... all in good time. Myself, I'm not there yet. I only did enough work to realize it was going to be difficult to solve.
[17:38] <dholbach> ok :/
[17:38] <dholbach> anything else from the docs team?
[17:39] <dholbach> anyone got any other business to discuss?
[17:39] <dsmythies> No.
[17:40] <dholbach> thanks again! :)
[17:40] <dholbach> all right then... pleia2: anything else from you?
[17:42] <dholbach> oook, in that case ... :)
[17:42] <dholbach> have a great rest of your day everyone
[17:42] <pleia2> :)
[17:42] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[17:42] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 15 17:42:39 2013 UTC.
[17:42] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-15-17.05.moin.txt
[17:42] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-15-17.05.html
[17:42] <dholbach> hugs!