=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [06:04] morning all [06:44] good morning MooDoo [06:44] :) [07:18] morning everyone! [07:19] morning === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [07:59] Morning [07:59] hi === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [08:13] morning all [08:14] AlanBell: alt-tab in 13.10 is even more broken than i first thought [08:14] if you have multiple workspaces [08:15] alt-tabbing will flip to the last window on another workspace, which it should never do [08:15] its not that hard is it? [08:15] other DEs have managed for years [08:15] but unity is special [08:15] "special" [08:16] it rides in the special bus [08:16] "What does your window taste like today?" [08:17] I don't use multiple workspaces that much now [08:17] since the cube was taken away [08:17] cube ftw [08:17] i used to play with it as a distraction from work [08:17] I prefer the flat layout myself.. I tried the cube.. but it's not for me [08:17] I now have a primary workspace and I occasionally put things on other workspaces to put them out of the way [08:18] i try to remember the multiple workspace thing but always get out of the habit after a few days [08:18] after needing to copy paste stuff from firefox to terminal [08:18] * TheOpenSourcerer uses multiple workspaces all the time. [08:18] suspects TheOpenSourcerer is a fvwm guy [08:19] is/was [08:19] mungbean: not twm? [08:19] Nope - 31.04 on my laptop and 12.04 on my desktop at home. [08:19] i used workspaces a lot in solaris openwindows [08:19] opps meant 13.04 [08:19] Motif! [08:19] TheOpenSourcerer: Been using your TARDIS again then? ;) [08:19] Lovely looking WM [08:19] pre motif [08:20] olwm [08:20] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/Openwindows.jpg [08:20] although in my memory it looked better than that [08:20] Good morning peeps :) [08:21] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/38/Mwm.jpg [08:21] ewww [08:22] too.....spongey [08:22] o_O [08:22] spongey? [08:22] somehow motif felt spongey to me [08:22] in the same way that KDE was sharp [08:22] and could cut you [08:23] Is that pronounced "spunjee" or "spongee"? [08:23] yeah, many cuts I got off KDE [08:23] good morning everyone. [08:23] mungbean: its a bug [08:24] mungbean: so yes, other desktops including unity have "managed" it hjust fine for years, but sometimes there are bugs in the development release. fancy that huh? [08:24] Time for a #2. Laterz. [08:24] ... [08:24] oh, unity has had weird alt-tab behaviour every time for me [08:25] i think its by design [08:26] AlanBell: if you have a moment bug 1212586 could do with confirming [08:26] bug 1212586 in unity (Ubuntu) "alt-tab switches workspaces to focus apps, but shouldn't" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1212586 [08:26] But if I have one app, with two windows, both on different workspaces.. should alt-tab tab between those [08:26] ? [08:28] no [08:28] alt-tab never crosses workspaces [08:29] is there one that does? [08:29] alt+` ? [08:29] no, alt+` switches windows of an app [08:29] alt+tab switches all windows on the current workspace [08:30] But is there a workspace-crossing "alt-tab like" key? [08:30] ctrl+alt+tab switches across workspaces [08:30] so yes, there is one [08:30] Oh, that's handy :) [08:33] Good morning all, happy Lion Day! :-D [08:34] What's the service which caches command names to offer alternatives if you type 'sudo' wrong, for example? [08:34] command-not-found [08:34] cheers popey [08:34] popey, I never knew about ctrl-alt-tab, thank you! [08:34] ctrl+alt+` doesn't work though :( [08:35] wow, alistair darling could have been the next master in dr who http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42962000/jpg/_42962555_darling203.jpg [08:35] That's disturbing [08:35] mungbean: I thought BBC had a fear of beards, or so I read? [08:35] i think the master is to blame for all fear of beards [08:36] popey: Just tried Alt+tab on 13.10 in vbox I don't see that bug, Following the how to reproduce, I just switch to the browser on workspace 1 [08:38] I can't reproduce it popey [08:46] !info molly-guard [08:46] molly-guard (source: molly-guard): protects machines from accidental shutdowns/reboots. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.4.5-1 (quantal), package size 11 kB, installed size 84 kB [08:47] How far along would people say that 13.10 is in usability & not having major breakages, contemplating upgrading my laptop to test in regular use [08:48] DJones, I've been using it at home fine even with mir [08:48] xmir* [08:49] diddledan_: Is that now installed by default, or is that still to filter through to the default install [08:49] I haven't upgraded this machine because it's my primary work machine and even though I've had good luck so far I'm still not prepared to commit everything to it [08:50] no, xmir is still a ppa I believe [08:50] Last I'd read about it, it was still install at own risk [08:50] at least I'm getting my xmir from ppa [08:50] Thought that was the case [08:50] I may wait until that filters through to default, then do a fresh install [08:55] I just found a cron entry that was set to fire at 34:00 (yes, 34 o'clock) [08:55] lol [08:56] I can only assume it should have been 00:34 [08:56] Did it actually work though? [08:56] nope [08:56] LOgic prevails then [08:58] DJones, xmir isn't installed by default, but it's in the default repo now. [08:59] DJones, I switched to it on Sunday. For the most part I haven't been able to tell the difference, but Chromium seems to fairly reliably crash it. [08:59] YMMV. [09:14] JamesTait: are you on a single monitor? [09:15] diddledan_: xmir is now in the repos [09:15] but not enabled by default [09:15] AlanBell, I am. Well, my laptop display. [09:17] AlanBell, I plugged my TV into my HDMI port the other night and it worked flawlessly for the first time since I've had the laptop - but I'm pretty sure that would have been before I switched to xmir. [09:17] But after switching from the nvidia driver to nouveau. [09:17] yeah, as far as I know multi-monitor on xmir is at a very rudimentary level [09:18] I'll give it a bash tonight. [09:21] the xmir ppa works on my own multimonitor setup [09:21] thanks AlanBell [09:28] works as in displays different stuff on different monitors, or just mirroring? [09:30] different stuff on different monitors [09:30] spanning [09:30] even plays well with synergy [09:31] unless it's dropped into fallback mode and I've not noticed [09:31] I'll double check when I get home if I remember [09:33] hi folks, i'm streaming two camera from laptops at home with motion, but if i want to get full streaming rather than jpeg stream? What's the next option? [09:34] probably ffmpeg.. Azelphur has done similar [09:35] hrm.. [09:35] that sounds hard [09:36] longer term project for now [09:39] seems motion has a bunch of ffmpeg stuff,, mpeg4 encoding, bitrates, resolutions.. [09:39] so might be possible with the existing program [09:42] zoneminder? [09:42] * hamitron would just use what is there if it gets the job done [09:43] for now it's fine, would just enjoy smoother streamed video [09:43] my dog plays around with his toys, so it would be cool to be able to capture the occational fun moment in nice quality [09:44] just a risk of it becoming one of those things where you say "I will do that sometime", but never around to it [09:44] :/ [09:44] at least that would be the case for me [09:44] :D [09:46] NET||abuse: I used to do the same with Motion to keep an eye on my dog, I thought it'd be quite entertaining, then as time went on, you realise that the dog sleeps all day and only spends about 30 seconds moving the toys around just before I came home to make it look like he'd been playing [09:46] yeh, can happen to me too, but in this case, i really want to do it. I'll be having a neighbours dog over on occasion who has proven a reliable well behaved visitor so it would be great to offer htis to my neighbour when he is at work also. [09:47] DJones: those devious animals :) [09:47] ooh, standup meeting... brb [10:10] AlanBell: I bet there will be pledges for the edge even on the last day when it's still millions off the mark [10:10] It's a pitty, as I do see the idea of the next evolution of convergence devices like the edge [10:11] I think there's something to be said for that kind of all in one, but at the same time. I love my laptop :) [10:11] it would of suceeded if the amount was a lot lower, I suspect realistically it was set that high as they knew it would fail. [10:12] I imagine the cost to get anything off the ground might be just htat high with the manufacturers regardless. so they had no choive [10:12] choice [10:12] maybe Mark will just swoop in and swallow the difference at the end :) [10:13] NET||abuse: oh so naive [and if it does i'll apologies then and buy you a beer] ;) [10:13] that would be silly [10:13] s/it/he [10:13] hehe :) [10:13] I eagerly await that beer [10:17] lol [10:18] NET||abuse: no, he won't though indiegogo, far far too expensive to do that [10:18] wheeee, getting a class two cert for supermatt.net :D [10:18] 4% to indiegogo, 4% to paypal, 20% VAT [10:18] you can still change the target with indiegogo , vbut wahts the point [10:18] don't think you can [10:19] SuperMatt: is that a good thing? [10:19] MooDoo: yup, because it means I have have a wildcard cert, and browsers trust it more [10:19] less warnings = good [10:19] SuperMatt: SSL? [10:19] yup [10:20] what's the point if you're not selling stuff? [10:20] just trust? [10:20] trust [10:20] expensive way of doing it :D [10:20] plus, I've started hosting my own stuff, like tt-rss and owncloud, which I'm also sharing with my friends, so I want a proper cert for them to use [10:20] * hamitron trusts nobody [10:21] something which they can trust [10:21] and I don't mean the user nobody [10:21] ;/ [10:21] ah that makes sense [10:21] AlanBell: i think it's oversimplistic to think mark will pull out a platinum credit card and punch it into indiegogo [10:21] your owncloud is on public internet? [10:21] we talk to indiegogo daily [10:21] it's on my vps [10:21] i can acess it? [10:21] i am scared of securty issues with owncloud [10:21] you can't sign up, if that's what you mean ;) [10:22] i'm scared of security vulnerabilities that would allow an attacker to get my precious [10:22] yeah, ditto [10:22] I don't put anything precious there ;) [10:22] there are regular security issues with it [10:22] and if I do, it's locked up in a truecrypt container [10:22] i have a server that is firewalled, but ideally vpned [10:24] thing is, I use my owncloud to access from work, home, my parents place, etc, so I don't always have the same IP, and I don't wanna tweak the filewall all the time. [10:24] vpn then [10:25] it's just there for saving stuff that I might wanna get at from a different local later [10:25] its more useful than that tho [10:25] vpn is a bit overkill, especially as I use own cloud on my phone, tablet, laptop, work pc, etc [10:26] If there's something *really* precious I don't want anyone to have, it really won't be on my owncloud, at least not without being in a truecrypt container [10:27] truecryp container on your pc , then sync it? [10:27] my keyboard is missing letters today [10:27] mungbean: yup [10:28] just a small one, to contain various things I need to keep safe [10:37] TE UIC RWN JUED VER TE LAY DG [10:37] * bigcalm giggles to himself [10:37] bigcalm: U WOT M8? [10:37] MartijnVdS: hold down both shift keys and then type: the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog [10:38] bigcalm: it looks vaguely Irish [10:38] I'm sure my keyboard would fair better if I didn't have to convert PS/2 to USB [10:42] odd. does the same on a usb keyboard here, but on neither laptop keyboards [10:43] This is via a Alienware USB keyboard: HE QUIK BRON FO JUPED OER HE LA DOG [10:44] THE QUICK BROWN FO JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOGS [10:45] popey: indeed, if indiegogo will accept a different bulk pledge amount without going through the process then maybe it could work [10:45] meh so it looks like microsoft hardware really does rock [10:45] not sure I get what's going on [10:46] where the money doesn't actually change hands, but it brings the total up to meet the target [10:46] It's a test of multiple key press processing. Something directhex was interested in for gaming, I think [10:46] and it doesn't qualify as a sale, or an investment [10:47] curious why it has no issues on either laptop keyboards here [10:47] mac? [10:48] one mac, one HP [10:49] My Logitech keyboard gets the TE UIC RWN JUED VER TE LAY DG one [10:50] my dell keyboard does the same too [10:53] Just tried to move my glasses and poked myself in the eye because I'm not actually wearing them [10:53] bigcalm: http://imgur.com/a4CVG ? [10:56] i punched myself in the face doing up shoelaces the other day [10:57] popey: hahahahahahahahahaha [10:58] popey: https://www.gov.uk/report-domestic-abuse [10:58] popey: Thanks that's made my day :) [10:58] popey: also.. HOW?! [10:58] looking down, pulling laces up tight, laces slip out of hand, hand carries on going upwards to face [10:58] HELLO FACE [10:58] hmm, can't switch motion over to not just do jpg saving. [10:59] right, ffmpeg server approach later [10:59] need to work. [11:20] * czajkowski pokes davmor2 and goes back to work [11:20] * davmor2 prods czajkowski and opens a terminal, the prods czajkowski and does some work [11:21] Terminal prodding [11:37] I like fingering random people in the terminal [11:37] I find it invariably says they're unknown tho [11:38] $ finger bigcalm [11:38] finger: bigcalm: no such user. <-- see? [11:38] o.O [11:40] * DJones remembers early programming days and having to poke memory addresses [11:46] that the beeb or the sinclair? [11:46] or both? [11:49] Neither, Vic 20 [11:50] And later Commodore 64 [11:50] Still don't think I ever filled the 3.5K ram on the Vic 20 with anything I ever did [11:51] only thing I remember actually having to poke, was to read the weird buttons on the atari 600 [11:52] Probably also on whatever the Apple ][ basic language version was before using Cobol [11:52] I liked the Atari's, the cartridge slot hidden under the flap right on top of the case always seemed a cool idea [11:53] Remembering those machines certainly shows my age [11:56] bigcalm: wifey surprise present arrived yesterday http://shop.constantin-weisz.com/de/Herrenuhren/Herren-Automatik/Constantin-Weisz-Herrenuhr-Automatik115.html I recommend opening it in chrome/chromium for the page translation if you want to know details :) [11:58] whoever decided to put MySQL and Postfix together is an evil, twisted human [11:58] DJones: you know you are old when you say when I were lad I remember changing valves on colossus [11:59] davmor2: Nah, when I were a lad, the colossus hadn't been built yet :) [12:00] Monotoko, fighting email again? [12:01] DJones: when my wife looked after old people, there was one lady who would chat about how hard the rationing was and gas street lighting and then that new fangled electric came along and then blow me wasn't there a second world war :D that is old [12:01] i think my wifes gt grandfather was a street lamp lighter [12:02] diddledan_, indeed... I need to get all-(post)@(club).(district).org to go to all the posts in that club in that district [12:02] ergh [12:02] the previous sysadmin said it'd take him 2 hours before he left... I don't believe him [12:02] history | less [12:02] it's a bit odd to think there's people who lives through two world wars, the advent of flight, the space age, etc etc. I already feel old, and all I've got is "I went to school. and then I got the internet." [12:02] falklands war, iraq war, afgan war,.. [12:02] 9/11 [12:02] shauno, you went to school?! [12:03] 11/9 [12:03] mungbean: Falkands wasn't a war, you can't count that one [12:03] I hate that the americans have twisted the date for 7/7 so now we have to call it 7/7 instead because they coined it first! [12:04] Although the people who dies/got injured in it would dispute that [12:04] :P === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [12:04] mm, lunch [12:04] that's a good idea [12:05] hmm, any idea how I'd do the all- thing diddledan_ ? [12:05] none whatsoever! :-p [12:05] I suck! [12:06] Hmmh, lunch... Thats going to be wierd, getting a lunch break [12:07] mungbean: that'll be cold war, falklands, kuwait/iraq, afgan, iraq again, iran (that we weren't in honest gov'nor ;) ) [12:07] DJones, who said anything about a break?! [12:08] none of those really affected me though, which I think is what makes the world wars really stand out [12:08] iraq first time is as far back as I go [12:08] in terms of memory [12:08] diddledan_: Thats true, although working as a contractor, I don't get lunch, changing to employed means I will [12:08] aah [12:08] being employed means you officially get a lunch [12:08] but in reality [12:08] you don;t [12:10] I've always eaten at my desk, although I will need to do a lot of office cleaning once I take over & move into the office first, I'm working on it'll be a "one skip" tidy [12:18] EAT THE DESK [12:18] lots of fibre! [12:23] christel \o/ [12:24] hello AlanBell \o/ [12:29] hello christel [12:31] hellloooo :D [12:31] :) [12:32] christel: Looking at the dodgy looking cafe over the road from here, I suspect eating the desk would be the healthy option [12:35] haha [12:35] christel: you desprogged congrats [12:36] danke schoen :) [12:43] davmor2: cool watch [12:50] bigcalm: ta :) I love it, like you with your pens :) [13:00] :) [13:00] davmor2: did you see the one Hayley gave me for my birthday? [13:01] * Monotoko cries [13:01] I'm going to throw our email server outta the bloody window in a moment [13:05] Monotoko: that bad? [13:06] Really good review of my birthday present: http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/232695-sailor-hakone-yosegi-zaiku/ === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [13:07] MartijnVdS, I'm having one of those days, and Postfix just doesn't help that at all [13:11] what's the milestone? 10.2m? [13:14] bit more than that [13:14] well 32m but what's the other milestone? [13:14] 10.2m exactly? [13:14] $10,266,845 [13:14] cheers [13:15] pebble lol [13:15] they are lame [13:16] :| [13:17] i know somebody with one and they are v gimicky IMO [13:25] One what? [13:26] Pebble watch [13:26] Oh [13:27] Wondering what Samsung will come out with [13:28] so a few months on, what's the opnion of the ouya? [13:31] bigcalm: wow to be fair that is impressive :) [13:33] davmor2: It's very much my every day pen now. I'd take it with me if I didn't value it so much [13:34] pen? for writing..? [13:34] love letters? [13:35] bigcalm: iirc there is a mother in pearl, black onyx checkerboard pen I've seen somewhere that reminds me of that, I bet that is expensive though ;) [13:37] There are 5 fountain pens on my desk. I really need to stop [13:38] Oops, just found 2 more [13:38] i have disdain for such things as i am a left hander [13:39] A pen is not hand centric [13:39] I never have a pen on my desk... [13:39] bigcalm: they are though.. pens with flowing ink = coloured hand [13:39] bigcalm: for me, anyway [13:39] :D [13:39] bigcalm: (fast-flowing ink) [13:41] bigcalm: yes they are, lefthanded nibs are more expensive and less common [13:42] davmor2: that's only if they are cut at a slant. All of my pens can be used by either hand [13:45] bigcalm: no you can get lefthanded no slanting nibs, iirc it's to do with the thickness of leading vs trailing nib tips. The only exception as far as I am aware are the really strong metal nibs like titanium etc. but softer metals like 22crt gold for example has different nib tip weights [13:46] * bigcalm shrugs :) [13:47] bigcalm: see you didn't know there was that much to nib technology did you ;) [13:47] davmor2: not something I pay much attention to. I like driving cars, but I don't know how to build one ;) [13:49] bigcalm: yeah you do, one lego brick at a time following the instruction in the book :D [13:49] Mmmm, lego [13:50] hmmm.. lego [13:50] bigcalm: we were planning a trip to legoland windsor for my birthday but with the mil being so poorly we couldn't get away hence the surprise watch pressie instead [13:52] Badminton tonight, I wonder if we'll end up in that crazy Thai restaurant again in Compton [13:52] davmor2: I can imagine you tearing up the road in their lego cars [13:57] even biros are a problem for left handers [13:57] unless you live in arabic RTL countries [13:57] even pencils can be [13:57] erm [13:57] biros and pencils aren't a problem :P [13:58] no, i type instead. [13:58] fountain pens aren't even too bad really [13:58] Seeker`: pencils = grey side of hand [13:58] Seeker`: biros are fine, but bad ones can rip up paper [13:58] or contortion [13:58] MartijnVdS: is your hand made of rubber? :P [13:58] Seeker`: fountain pens = blue side of hand [13:58] biro ink = smudge too [13:59] mungbean: for those "gel" pens maybe [13:59] I use a biro a lot and don't smudge it. [13:59] you are a leftie? [13:59] mungbean: I am [13:59] I don't think I recall getting grey hands from HB pencils either [13:59] I am [13:59] i can take notes but not fill a page of text [13:59] worst, try using a fountain pen as a left hander, [13:59] its grim and also scratches weirdly [14:00] wait.. #ubuntu-lefthanded? [14:00] INTJ and lefthandies ftw [14:00] #fountain-pen-blue-hands [14:00] more like. [14:00] writing is overrated [14:01] I think aobut 10% of people are left handed [14:01] 15-19% [14:01] so you'd expect 12 people or so in this channel to be left handed [14:01] "Globally, roughly 12% of men and 10% of women are left-handed." [14:01] Seeker`: but not everyone on the channel is active [14:01] only around 15% of the chan are active [14:02] and they're ALL left-handers ;) [14:02] maybe it is because the wrong-handed people are scared of us? [14:02] its genetic [14:02] the fear? [14:02] without the RH gene, then its 50/50 [14:02] Hehe [14:03] thats what i heard and chose to believe without checking anyway [14:03] hello [14:03] Hi [14:03] my parents are both right handed, me and my brother are left handed [14:03] me too [14:03] i am 1/5 [14:03] 2/5 are lefties [14:03] although I play the guitar right-handed, and can use a mouse with either hand etc. [14:04] Seeker`: that doesn't mean that both of them aren't actually lefthanders that were forced to use their right hands [14:04] Yeah, the mouse is a special case for me too.. but that's just because of how it was always set up [14:04] i do nearly everything right handed except writing, scissors, fine painting [14:04] scissors I can do with either hand [14:04] I'm equally bad at snooker with either hand [14:04] scissors I'm bad with [14:05] I can't cut straight if my depended on it [14:05] takes me slightly longer to cut stuff in my right hand, but its not too bad [14:06] stanley knife and a cutting board and I get a better result than I do with a pair of scissors [14:06] i tried cutting our blinds because i got impatient hile wifey was out [14:06] fail [14:06] although i cut my sons hair and did great [14:07] "almost no blood!" [14:07] your blinds...grow? [14:07] 1984 Nobody died [14:07] 1985 Nobody died [14:07] etc [14:07] (c) Steve Coogan [14:07] ? [14:07]