/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/18/#ubuntu-za.txt

Kilosmorning all05:53
* Kilos got pc auto rebooting probs again today05:53
charlgood afternoon10:18
charlMaaz: coffee on10:18
* Maaz puts the kettle on10:18
MaazCoffee's ready for charl!10:22
=== space_ is now known as Space
charlwb Kilos 11:34
charlyour pc is giving problems?11:34
charlhi JoTraGo, Space, Mezenir 11:35
Kilosty charl 11:38
Kilosyeah kept rebooting on its own, about 8 times then bios couldnt see the drive anymore11:38
Kilosgrrr11:39
Squirmhello11:58
Kilosyo Squirm 11:59
charlKilos: that sucks :(12:30
Kilosyeah some weird prob where power goes to mboard or psu12:31
Kilosanyway its all going again after wiggling all wires and running fsck from maverick to fix the drive12:31
Kilosthen i spent some time trying to connect ubuntu though eth to 3g in router12:32
Kilosgrrr12:32
Kilosgot it working from xp but ubuntu dont use it as a gateway12:33
charlthat's strange12:36
charlwhat kind of router is it?12:36
Kiloswifi router12:37
charloh it's a 3g-wifi bridge device?12:38
Kiloswith 4 eth connectors and usb for 3g modem12:38
Kiloslol i dunno12:38
Kilosflat thing, dont look like a bridge12:39
Kilos2 wifi aerials sticking up12:39
Kilosi got the book and read about 3/4 but no info on connecting with linux12:40
Kilosit has the 3g option as a backup for when adsl crashes12:40
charlvery strange, it should just provide a normal dhcp+nat interface12:40
Kilosmust i use dhcp in nm12:41
Kilosi think i have tried that too12:42
Kilosi can configure the router from my browser  but not sure what all to do so got modem here rather12:43
Kilosautomatic dhcp or auto dhcp addresses only?12:44
Kilosand dont i have to tell nm what the gateway is12:45
Kilosdidnt try booting pc with it connected though12:46
Kiloshi Vince-0 12:53
Vince-0Kilos! when are you not monitoring this channel12:53
Kiloswhen im reinstalling or fixing crashed drives12:54
Kiloshehe12:54
Kilosor sleeping12:54
charlhi Vince-0 12:55
Vince-0haai12:55
charlfill auto dhcp12:56
charlso then you get dns settings etc12:56
charl*full12:56
charland yes you want the default gateway configured too12:56
charlbut that should be the default configuration on most devices12:56
Kiloson the router or i gotta tell ubuntu12:57
charldhcp does all the work12:57
charljust enable full dhcp on the router and nm will pick up the settings via dhcp automatically12:57
Kilosill try booting with it all connected and see12:57
charlyeah you should try that12:57
charli have also had some weird issues like that with network manager12:57
Kilosty will try that but not now12:57
charlthen i just reboot and it works fine12:57
charlstrange thing is that with kubuntu i have none of that12:58
charlthe kubuntu network manager works a bit better it seems12:58
Kilosoh i didnt think of trying kubuntu12:58
Kilosthe drive crashing upset whole day12:58
Vince-0_gosh darn DSL13:01
charlKilos: on the old ubuntu you could have just called dhclient on the command line13:11
charlthat also immediately gave you feedback about what it was doing13:11
charlhowever on the new ubuntu they replaced that with network manager13:11
Kilosdo you have to call loud13:12
charlalso the /etc/resolv.conf is now just pointing to localhost and then network manager handles dns queries13:12
Kiloshehe13:12
charli'm not so happy about that, i prefer the old way, was much simpler13:12
charlbut i guess they had their reasons to change things13:12
Kilosoh i had some resolv.conf probs when ssh ing to another pcto share 3g from here13:13
charli like seeing the raw guts of a system though, not all these extra layers on top13:13
charlmaybe i should look at arch again13:13
charlbut last time i tried it my experience sucked13:14
charlsome basic things like package management was broken after installing from the iso13:14
Kilosone has to add 8.8.8.8 in resolv.conf i think13:14
charlthat's google dns13:14
charlif you want to use that, yes13:14
Kilosno man ubuntu be lekker13:14
charli just use my isp's dns13:14
Kilosthere was a prob in 12.04 resolv.conf. i will look up my notes when im ready to try router again13:15
charli literally use my cablemodem on full default configuration13:15
Kilostime you got rich and have fibre laid to you13:17
kbmonkeyhallo o/13:20
Kiloslo my monkey13:20
* Kilos throws bananas13:20
kbmonkeymoo13:21
charlKilos: yeah lol13:21
charlit's gonna take a while at the current pace13:21
charlhi kbmonkey 13:22
kbmonkeyhi charl and Kilos 13:22
Kiloshehe13:22
charlhow's it going kbmonkey 13:23
kbmonkeyfine man. got a hair cut, woohoo. no more furry monkey13:23
kbmonkeyhey my machine has dhclient, do not think I have ever used that.13:23
* kbmonkey reads manpage13:23
charlkbmonkey: that reminds me of this: http://hak5.org/episodes/episode-50513:24
charlmonkey-in-the-middle attack13:24
Kilosnameserver 8.8.8.8 has to be added in /etc/network/interfaces13:25
charlwhen i do sudo dhclient all i get now is RTNETLINK answers: File exists13:25
charlit used to actually do a dhcp handshake13:25
Kilosthats what i had to do before13:25
kbmonkeyha ha, sounds cool charl :> will download that at work tomorrow9~9~113:25
kbmonkey*! sorry, ssh lag13:25
charlKilos: isn't that supposed to go in /etc/resolv.conf ?13:25
charlthe nameserver?13:25
Kilosyou cant write to there in 12.04 it gets overwritten everytime13:26
charlkbmonkey: download it at work? lol13:26
charlKilos: yeah exactly13:26
charlso it goes in /etc/network/interfaces now?13:26
charlinteresting13:26
Kiloshave to run this too13:27
Kilosecho "nameserver 8.8.8.8" >> /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/head13:27
charlwhow it all got way too complicated now :(13:27
Kilosyeah squirm told me how13:27
charlbah13:28
charlno me gusta13:28
kbmonkeyis that for a custom configuration charl ?13:28
charlhttp://i.imgur.com/CGWRLxU.jpg13:29
kbmonkeylol me gusta 13:29
charlkbmonkey: yeah everything being managed by network manager now in the new ubuntu13:29
charlhence the reaction :)13:29
kbmonkeystill using crunchbang here. debian base good ole :)13:30
kbmonkeyi got a bum cushion of me gusta13:31
charllol srsly?13:31
kbmonkeyi draw him on the glass walls in the office with whiteboard markers on days when business requirements read like launch codes but implement like drunk 5 year old drawings ;)13:32
charlwow that sounds almost like where i work13:32
kbmonkeyalternate reality?! wooo13:33
charlhttp://knowyourmeme.com/memes/internet-is-leaking13:34
kbmonkeylol, how true13:39
kbmonkeyi have a flying spaghetti monster and pedo bear felt animals.13:39
kbmonkeynot that I collect stuffed animals, but yeah these are cool13:39
charllol a pedo bear of all things13:40
charlbe careful where you put that :P13:40
kbmonkeymy sister makes them13:40
charlyour sister ! wow that is amazing13:40
kbmonkeyits just felt sewing13:41
charlmy mom knitted me this thing: http://i.imgur.com/RSP7p.jpg13:41
kbmonkeybut the fsm I had commisioned13:41
kbmonkeylol its rainbow cat13:42
kbmonkeypoptart cat13:42
charlkawaii des ne :P13:42
charli showed it to my mom as a joke and she really liked it13:42
charlshe made two, she has the other one13:42
charldon't have a picture of it though13:43
kbmonkeymem was coined by richard dawkins, useful fact.13:43
kbmonkeymeme*13:43
charluseful? :)13:43
kbmonkeyan idea that spreads through collective memory13:44
kbmonkeyhey gotta make new words to write about stuff ;)13:44
Kilossee charl if you  cat /etc/resolv.conf13:50
Kilosso you gotta work around it13:50
charlKilos: yeah14:37
magespawnafternoon all15:41
Kiloshi magespawn 15:41
Kilosyo Cantide 15:41
Cantidehello everyone~15:41
Cantide'-'/15:41
magespawnhi Cantide 15:43
charlhi magespawn 15:49
charlhi Cantide 15:49
Cantidehi charl :)15:50
Cantidewhat is everyone up to?15:50
Cantideabout to eat dinner here >.<15:50
KilosMaaz, whats for supper15:50
MaazA nice thick homemade  oxtail and vegetable soup for starters and then Spaghetti bolognaise15:50
Kiloshmm...15:51
magespawno/ charl 15:51
Cantideoh, i like Maaz already15:52
KilosMaaz, wat eet ons15:52
MaazRys vleis en aartapels15:52
magespawnsounds good15:52
magespawnlol15:52
Cantiderys = rice?15:52
Kilosya15:53
CantideMaaz lacks commas  :D15:53
MaazCantide: Sorry...15:53
Cantideit's okay, Maaz; it's not your fault :p15:53
Kilosmagespawn, i had an idea15:53
Kiloswith the source15:53
Kilosif on puts tea in everywhere coffee is then he should make tea15:54
Kilosit\15:54
magespawnmakes sense15:55
Kilosi lost that source download with this mornings crash15:55
Kilossigh15:55
magespawnyou be able to do an edit like that on the fly15:55
inetproKilos: but you have the source15:55
inetprogood mornings15:56
Kiloswhere inetpro good evening15:56
magespawnhey inetpro15:56
Kilosya that should work magespawn 15:56
inetproKilos: how did you install QA?15:56
Kiloscarefully15:56
magespawnlol15:56
inetproIIRC you are running from a source download15:57
Kiloshehe i have the whole package but dunno how to open it to source level15:57
inetprooh come on15:57
Kilosno i have the package15:57
inetproeven then15:57
Kilosai!15:57
inetproibid is all interpreted code15:57
magespawnis python15:58
inetproit's not compiled15:58
Kilosya man i got a .deb package15:58
inetprols -l /usr/share/pyshared/ibid/plugins/fun.py15:59
inetprodoes that ^^ filke exist?15:59
inetprofile*15:59
Kilos-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 24711 Jan 31  2013 /usr/share/pyshared/ibid/plugins/fun.py15:59
Kilosshould i nano it and see16:00
inetpronow if you feel like breaking things start modifying that16:00
inetproobviously owned by root16:01
Kilosok lemme try i got lotsa backups now16:01
inetprodon't come crying if it stops working16:02
Kilosthe bot or the pc16:02
Kilos??16:02
inetprouh, how far did you want to go?16:02
Kilosjust with qa16:02
inetproai!16:02
Kiloswhat now16:02
inetprogo break it now!16:03
Kilosonce qa can make coffee and tea16:03
inetpro:-)16:03
Kilosill try make her braai16:03
Kilosthen give that file to the weed16:03
inetprothe quicker you can break it the sooner you can fix it again16:03
Kilosok here goes16:03
Kilosouch 628 lines16:04
charlhave any of you people tried this? http://www.kwheezy.com/en/16:06
charlthink i'm going to take it for a sppin16:06
charl*spin16:06
Kiloslets see16:12
KilosQA, tea on16:12
QAKilos: I'm not feeling too well16:12
Kilosuh oh16:12
KilosQA, coffee on16:13
QAKilos: Huh?16:13
* Kilos cries16:13
Kilosyou cant fiddle with ibids on the fly16:13
magespawnand the bot is sick16:13
KilosQA, hi16:13
QAword16:13
magespawnyou need to stop and restart her16:14
KilosQA, hi16:14
QAhola16:14
Kilosok lets see16:14
KilosQA, die16:14
magespawnQA coffee please16:14
magespawnbit late 16:14
Kiloslol16:14
Kilospatience my man16:14
KilosQA, hi16:15
QAhoe lyk it16:15
Kilosi love this bot she got lotsa greetings16:15
KilosQA, tea on16:15
QAKilos: That didn't go down very well. Burp.16:15
Kilosai!16:16
magespawnlol16:16
KilosQA, coffee please16:16
QAKilos: Sorry...16:16
Kiloswell that killed her service16:16
KilosQA, die16:16
QAKilos: I'm not feeling too well16:16
magespawnhah just reverse the changes16:16
Kiloswhew16:17
Kiloseasier to delete data.db and drop another one there16:17
inetproai!16:17
magespawnthat didn't take too long16:18
KilosQA, coffee on16:20
QAKilos: Sorry...16:20
Kilosai!16:20
KilosQA, cow16:20
QAMoooo16:20
magespawnlol16:23
Kilosnow she very sick16:29
Kilosnow she be stupid again16:32
Kilosgrrr16:32
Kilosno cloak either16:33
Kilosmagespawn, fiddling in python apps isnt so easy16:38
Kilosmaybe i shoulda only changed the coffee that was in blue16:39
magespawnmaybe17:00
Kilosim not gonna fiddle there again17:00
Kiloswill think about it17:00
magespawncopy the file before you fiddle17:01
Kiloslol17:01
Kilosgood idea17:01
Kilosi dont think one can just edit python files17:07
Kilosits like filling up a jets fuel tank but not knowing how to start it or fly17:07
Kilosooo i winder if idle could debug it17:08
Kiloswonder17:08
magespawna good time to find out17:13
inetprohmm...17:29
Kiloshehe17:29
inetproyou really broke her?17:29
Kilosya but shes fixed again17:29
inetproah17:29
Kilosgoog thing to keep ibid.ini and ibid.db files safe somewhere else17:30
inetprobut why restore the db?17:30
inetprosurely you didn't touch the db?17:31
Kilosjust in case that also got corrupt17:31
inetproai!17:31
Kilosi dunno what that file messed with17:31
inetproeven the ini file shoudl have stayed exactly the same17:31
inetproshould as well17:32
Kilosi dunno so did her over from scratch17:32
Kilosibid-setup and all17:33
inetproai!17:33
inetproI think you should address your file editing skills17:33
Kilosyes me too17:34
inetproand learn about permissions and ownerships17:34
Kilosai!17:34
magespawnhttp://thehackernews.com/2013/08/Mark-Zuckerberg-hacked-facebook-hacking-tool.html17:45
Kilosask him can he hack ibid to make tea and steak17:47
magespawnlol a Kilos 17:47
magespawns/a/at17:47
magespawni will take a crack at it tomorrow17:48
Kiloshehe17:48
Kilosok ill be here17:48
magespawnhttp://thehackernews.com/2013/08/vulnerability-in-usb-internet-modems.html17:48
Kiloshmm... that done even try to open17:50
Kilosdont17:50
magespawncan be our first 'lesson' in python17:50
magespawnopens fine on this side17:50
Kilosi think ibid is very serious python17:51
Kilosoh ya i forgot i gotta first open opera then can click from here17:52
magespawnopera is not your default?17:54
Kilosya it is but it must stand there open already17:55
magespawnah17:57
Kiloswow magespawn i wonder if that isnt what happened with the e22018:05
Kilosi found about 10 smses on it but all numbers and symbols18:06
Kilosthats why it will be good to be able to format the storage to ext418:07
magespawnit maybe, i do not know enough to tell18:07
Kilosthats why my hacked arab modem never gives probs18:08
magespawnindeed18:09
Kiloshere is an example of one of them smses18:10
Kilos48656C6C6F21596F75206861766520343937204D422054656C6B6F6D204D6F62696C65206461746120617661696C61626C652E20343937204D422077696C6C20657870697265206F6E2030312F31302F323031332E䡥汬漡奯甠桡癥‴㜳⁍䈠呥汫潭⁍潢楬攠乩杨琠卵牦敲⁤慴愠慶慩污扬攮‴㜳⁍䈠睩汬⁥硰楲攠潮‰ㄯ㄰⼲〱㌮48656C6C6F21596F752068617665203130323430204D42206F662066756C6C2073706565642057692D46692061636365737320617661696C61626C6520776869636820776918:10
Kilos6C6C20657870697265206F6E2033312F30382F323031332E18:10
Kilosand the sender is a Q18:12
magespawncertainly seems fishy18:14
magespawnbrb18:14
magespawnright now on the pc18:28
Kiloswb18:28
magespawnty a bit of a mission to get win online18:29
Kiloshahaha18:29
magespawnwould not connect to the router wirelessly18:29
magespawnwould not connect to the router wirelessly18:29
magespawnman this pc is begging me to format it18:30
Kilosits actually good to use win now and again then one can appreciate coming back to ubuntu18:30
magespawni have downloaded the source, i will have to play around a bit, but it looks fairly straight forward18:45
Kiloswow18:46
Kilosthe whole source on time18:46
magespawnyup not actually that much really18:47
magespawnlike 430 ish kb18:47
magespawnibid 0.1.118:48
magespawnthis is the section we are interested in http://slexy.org/view/s20BA07TgT18:49
magespawnperhaps we should have an improptu python lesson now18:51
Kilosthats different to where i worked in18:53
Kilosmine didnt start with class18:53
magespawn\Downloads\Ibid-0.1.1.tar\Ibid-0.1.1\ibid\plugins\fun.py18:54
Kiloshuh18:55
Kiloswhat kinda link is that18:55
magespawnnot a link, that is the path to the fun.py file on my hard drive, if you download the source you are looking for the fun.py file18:56
inetproseriously before you modify any file, make sure you know what you modified and how to revert18:57
Kilosbut thats in downloads so how you gonna test it18:59
magespawnmaking a back up of the original is my favorite way of doing a reset when i mess things up18:59
magespawni wasn't going to test it now, i wanted to have look to see how complicated the file is18:59
Kilosonly the coffee part19:00
Kilossorry i had scrolled back and answered what i saw there19:00
Kiloslol19:00
Kilosyou really broke her19:00
Kilosim trying to find that file again19:01
Kilos/usr/share/pyshared/ibid/plugins/fun.py19:01
inetprothe best is not to modify any packaged installation but rather to modify a independent version from source19:02
Kilosindependant19:02
magespawnlol19:03
Kiloslike install another ibid somewhere19:03
magespawnno need to install19:03
Kilosor run 2 here19:03
magespawnno need to run19:03
Kiloshow do you test if you dont install19:03
magespawnyou would have to but only after you have changed the file19:04
Kiloswhew then install and it dont work19:04
Kilossjoe19:04
inetprofollow the docs19:04
inetprohttp://ibid.omnia.za.net/docs/0.1.0/tutorial.html19:04
magespawnthe ibid-plugin is a good idea19:05
Kiloseish i been reading byteofpython and the router book19:06
Kilosyeah plugins are fine but the coffee bit is in the basic install19:06
inetproif the docs don't help you fight with the devs and tell them to improve the docs19:06
inetproor help them improve it19:06
Kilosthe idea is magespawn to write a tea maker then add it to the working ibid19:07
Kilosso you dont change whats already working19:07
Kilosdevs write books for it peeps19:07
Kilosnot noobs mechanics or farmers19:08
Kilosit=IT19:08
inetproKilos: try making small changes before you tackle the big ones19:08
magespawnKilos the play.py is in the plugins folder, so it is part of the basic install but still a plugin19:08
inetprokeep it simple19:08
Kilosa cup of tea is small19:08
magespawnlol19:08
Kilosand without sugar is very simple19:08
inetprochanging a tyre is simple19:08
inetprotry writing a program for it, it is not so simple19:09
magespawnwould be nice to have the bot make as well as coffee, and then move on from there to anything else really19:09
magespawnmissing word is 'tea'19:09
magespawninetpro: and i have seen people struggle with that too19:10
Kilosmagespawn, if one puts that section in idle and adds the tea instead of coffee will idle debug it19:10
inetproyou have to learn to respect guys like the fly and the tumbling weed before you attempt to become like them19:11
Kilosone needs a good python script debugger19:11
magespawnno idea, i have never tried that19:11
inetproprogramming is an art19:11
Kilosidle has a debug button19:11
magespawnand a science19:11
Kiloswe know inetpro but its very interesting and would be lekker to be able to understand some of it at least19:12
magespawni think it will be a 'little while' before i get that good, if ever19:12
Kilosthat coffee section has serious stuff in it19:12
inetproKilos: so start crawling before you try walking and running19:13
Kilosthe weed and fly think in python not english and afrikaans19:13
Kilosmy knees are sore already man thats why i wanna just change something not rewrite from scratch19:14
inetprofile permissions and editing skills are very important to understand and master19:14
Kilosthats why they are so slow to answer, they first have to get the python to english dictionary out19:14
Kilosjust as an example magespawn can you see whats wrong in the greeter script19:16
Kilosthe fly looked at it and said it will take a day to fix19:17
magespawnno i can understand some of it, but not enough to fix it19:17
magespawnwhat is it not doing?19:17
Kilosit greets wrong peeps or something19:18
Kilosi forget now, have had it unplugged for months19:18
Kilosand if i bring qa here with it in she arrives and greets everyone here one by one19:19
Kiloshehe19:19
magespawnlol19:19
magespawnmaybe just keep that to your channel19:19
Kiloscan you imagine if i send her to #ubuntu19:19
Kilosill be shot19:19
magespawnwe could do a challange for the classes, first one of the students to get the greeter right wins kudos and unlimited coffee19:20
Kilosit needs a memory function added so it only greets newcomers19:20
Kilosrofl19:20
Kilosohi superfly 19:21
magespawni would have though a timer function so that is greets the person after a vertain amount of time away19:21
inetprosomething that might come in handy for beginners is a book like the "Bash Guide for Beginners" http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/Bash-Beginners-Guide.html19:21
superflyhi Kilos19:21
magespawnhey superfly19:21
Kiloseeek inetpro thats anothe massive book and dont come one time but page by page19:22
Kilosbash=terminal=konsole??19:23
inetproai!19:24
inetpronee meneer!19:25
Kiloso19:25
magespawninetpro that is realtively old, is it not outdated?19:25
inetprono19:26
magespawncool ty19:26
magespawnBorn Again SHell19:26
inetprowell you can also look at the Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/19:27
inetprobut maybe beginners should even take one step backwards19:27
* inetpro trying to find something more basic19:28
magespawni seem to learn back to front most of time anyway19:28
Kilosmagespawn, learn all that stuff so i can ask you19:28
magespawnyes my lord, at once my lord19:29
Kilosvoesek man19:29
magespawnlol19:29
Kilosyou watch too many old fashioned movies19:30
magespawni watch too many movies, period19:30
inetpromaybe "Linux Shell Scripting Tutorial v1.05r3 | A Beginner's handbook" http://www.freeos.com/guides/lsst/19:34
Kilosai!19:35
inetprohmm... maybe not19:36
magespawncool 19:36
kbmonkeywhat you hackers up to19:36
* inetpro need to find some good old docs from the days of yonder19:36
Kiloswanna teach ibids to make to and steak19:37
magespawninetpro: come on you are not that old19:37
* superfly is investigating a work issue from Kenya19:37
Kilosmagespawn, idle degugger dont work directly19:37
Kilosyou supply them as well superfly ?19:38
superflyKilos: we have 20 devices in Kenya19:38
Kiloswhew19:38
KilosMaaz, google python script debugging tool19:40
MaazKilos: "26.2. pdb — The Python Debugger — Python v2.7.5 documentation" http://docs.python.org/library/pdb.html :: "How to debug python code? - Velocity Reviews" http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t356093-how-to-debug-python-code.html :: "Python debugging tips - Stack Overflow" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1623039/python-debugging-tips :: "Suggestions19:40
Maazfor Python debugging tools? - Stack Overflow" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/477193/su…19:40
Kilosai! no tools work as simple as a shifting spanner19:42
magespawni think a program is a little more complex than a nut and bolt19:42
superflylog.debug19:43
Kiloshaha19:43
Kilosmagespawn, ^^19:43
Kilosyo adeebnqo 19:44
adeebnqoHello :-)19:44
inetprothe big thing about most programming books is that they start at a level that assume that you know your OS and how it is structured with it's permissions et all, let alone how to use an editor19:45
Kiloshehe19:46
KilosNameError: name 'log' is not defined19:46
adeebnqoWhat are we doing? Python programming?19:46
Kilosya learning19:46
magespawnsomething like that19:46
Kiloswe gonna start classes soon on a learning channel19:47
Kiloseveryone welcome19:47
Kiloswhat was the prize magespawn 19:47
kbmonkeythe best debugger is your brain and reading program output19:47
Kilosfree coffee and what19:47
kbmonkeyfree hugs?19:48
Kilosi try find it19:48
magespawnkudos19:50
Kilosya thats it19:50
kbmonkeythis is a good place to start - http://docs.python.org/2.7/library/debug.html19:50
Kilosi hate scrolling back19:50
inetproanother place to start: The Beginner’s Guide to Shell Scripting: The Basics http://www.howtogeek.com/67469/the-beginners-guide-to-shell-scripting-the-basics/19:51
Kiloskbmonkey, we wanna take the ibid script and change coffee to tea and then debug it so it works19:51
Kiloswithout crashing the bot19:52
kbmonkeygotcha19:52
magespawnmaybe work in a braai with steak, chops and wors, at some point19:54
Kiloseven just the basic steak on or something would be good if the bot can call you when its medium rare19:55
magespawnKilos maybe it would be a good idea to start with original reason behind the #linux-studies before we get into python?19:56
Kiloslol19:57
Kiloslike bash basics19:57
magespawnkbmonkey did you set that channel and the wiki up originally?19:57
Kilosya him19:58
Kilosand the mail thing19:58
Kilossue him19:58
kbmonkeyja me?19:58
Kilosyou mind if we use it kbmonkey ?19:58
Kilospretty please19:58
kbmonkeyno wiki and it ws not an official channel, ##19:59
Kiloswe will supply our own bot19:59
kbmonkeysure it is for anything even python19:59
Kilosno man19:59
Kilosgot chanserv and everything19:59
Kilos#linux-studies20:00
inetpromagespawn: or20:00
inetproThe Beginners Linux Guide http://www.linux.ie/newusers/beginners-linux-guide/20:00
kbmonkeylet us ask chanserv20:00
Kilosyou even forgot where the channel is kbmonkey 20:01
KilosMaaz, LPI manual20:13
Maazhttp://www.linuxcertification.co.za/lpi-study-manual20:13
magespawngood night all20:21
Kilosnight laddy20:21
inetprogood night magespawn20:22
Kilosyo jmagunduni 20:27
jmagunduniey Kilos20:28
adeebnqoKilos: wana start a python project? I really need to code20:28
Kiloswe are having classes in #linux-studies starting soon20:29
Kiloslooks like we gonna be doing some of the basics of linux before we get to python20:30
Kilosbut you can get the python book so long20:30
KilosMaaz, google byteofpython20:31
MaazKilos: "A Byte of Python - Swaroop, The Dreamer" http://swaroopch.com/notes/python/ :: "A Byte of Python - Ibiblio" http://www.ibiblio.org/g2swap/byteofpython/files/120/byteofpython_120.pdf :: "A Byte of Python - Ibiblio" http://www.ibiblio.org/g2swap/byteofpython/read/ :: "A Byte of Python - Department of Mathematics"20:31
Maazhttp://www.math.ucdavis.edu/~exploration/mme/2012/byteOfPython.pdf :: "A Byte of Python" http://www.byteofpython.info/ :: "A Byte of Py…20:31
adeebnqoI already know a lil' bit of python -- I'm good, although I've never used OO in it.20:31
superflyadeebnqo: if you've used Python, you've used OO20:31
superflyOO is not about classes20:31
adeebnqoWhat is it abt?20:32
superfly*about20:32
superflyObject Orientation is about objects.20:32
adeebnqolol Okay, I've never made my own classes in python20:32
superflyadeebnqo: what programming languages have you used before?20:33
adeebnqoJava and C++20:33
adeebnqostarted with python though20:34
Kilosadeebnqo, you are welcome to join us when we start. magespawn is setting up the learning program i think and it will be one eveing a week20:34
superflyAh. Java is not object-orientated (no matter what they say). Java is class-orientated. Ever noticed how EVERYTHING has to be in a class?20:34
adeebnqolol gotta agree. When I learning c++, I even hated java bcoz of the classes20:35
adeebnqoWhen are the classes starting?20:37
Kilosmaybe next week or so20:37
Kiloswe are trying to find a day that suits everyone20:38
superflyadeebnqo: classes are not a bad thing. but, when everything you do is about classes, then it can be distracting and make things complicated20:38
adeebnqothats the reason why I like c++, no need for classes all the time20:39
superflyYes, but C++ without namespaces is a complete and utter mess20:40
Kilosweare having these classes because im a mechanic and farmer not an IT person20:40
adeebnqosuperfly: how so?20:42
adeebnqoKilos: are you referring to the python and Linux classes or java classes?20:43
Kilospython and linux20:44
superflyadeebnqo: because all your functions and variables end up in the global namespace and you can't segment your code nicely20:44
Kiloson #linux-studies20:44
adeebnqoThat depends on your design though. C++ code is beautiful when one uses header files and source files properly --- I barely uses namespaces.20:46
adeebnqo*use20:47
superflyadeebnqo: create any non-trivial project and then you'll understand.20:48
adeebnqosuperfly: I guess you're right20:51
Kilosnight all. sleep tight20:54
Kilossee ya morrow20:54
superflyadeebnqo: files only arrange your code on disk, not inside the program21:18
superflyadeebnqo: when you compile your program, everything is lumped togeter into one big binary file :-)21:18
adeebnqosuperfly: so you're worried about the structure of the binary file? judging from your statement, it seems like you're saying it's possible to decompile binary files...21:25
superflyadeebnqo: not at all. I'm just pointing out the reality of what happens when you compile a C++ project21:25
superflyadeebnqo: you mentioned using header files and source files, and I'm pointing out to you that they actually have no effect on the end product21:26
adeebnqosuperfly: Why would the structure of the code in a binary file matter though?21:28
superflyadeebnqo: conflicting symbols21:28
superflyif you have the same variable in two files, even though they are never included together, you'll end up with a linking error21:29
superflyadeebnqo: each .cpp file is compiled into an object file, and then all the object files are linked together and prefaced with an executable header which includes a "pointer" to the main function21:30
adeebnqofor real? --- even if that's the case though, c++ is not to blame for that, the compiler (or linker) is.21:30
superflybecause each .cpp file is compiled individually, your two files will compile fine, but when being linked together into the eventual executable, the two symbols will conflict21:31
superflyadeebnqo: no, actually, you are to blame, for not writing your code properly21:31
superflyunderstanding the compiler and the linker is quite fundamental to understanding how to use the programming language properly21:32
superflyI think that these days, however, compilers tend to make your life easier by including the file name into the symbol name, but that's not necessarily true of all compilers - especially compilers for smaller platforms like ARM21:32
superflyadeebnqo: open python, and then type "import this"21:34
adeebnqoany version of python ryt?21:34
superflyyup21:34
superflyanyway, I need to get to bed21:35
superflywork tomorrow as usual, and it's already after 11:30pm21:35
adeebnqosee yu21:35

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