[05:53] morning all [05:53] * Kilos got pc auto rebooting probs again today [10:18] good afternoon [10:18] Maaz: coffee on [10:18] * Maaz puts the kettle on [10:22] Coffee's ready for charl! === space_ is now known as Space [11:34] wb Kilos [11:34] your pc is giving problems? [11:35] hi JoTraGo, Space, Mezenir [11:38] ty charl [11:38] yeah kept rebooting on its own, about 8 times then bios couldnt see the drive anymore [11:39] grrr [11:58] hello [11:59] yo Squirm [12:30] Kilos: that sucks :( [12:31] yeah some weird prob where power goes to mboard or psu [12:31] anyway its all going again after wiggling all wires and running fsck from maverick to fix the drive [12:32] then i spent some time trying to connect ubuntu though eth to 3g in router [12:32] grrr [12:33] got it working from xp but ubuntu dont use it as a gateway [12:36] that's strange [12:36] what kind of router is it? [12:37] wifi router [12:38] oh it's a 3g-wifi bridge device? [12:38] with 4 eth connectors and usb for 3g modem [12:38] lol i dunno [12:39] flat thing, dont look like a bridge [12:39] 2 wifi aerials sticking up [12:40] i got the book and read about 3/4 but no info on connecting with linux [12:40] it has the 3g option as a backup for when adsl crashes [12:40] very strange, it should just provide a normal dhcp+nat interface [12:41] must i use dhcp in nm [12:42] i think i have tried that too [12:43] i can configure the router from my browser but not sure what all to do so got modem here rather [12:44] automatic dhcp or auto dhcp addresses only? [12:45] and dont i have to tell nm what the gateway is [12:46] didnt try booting pc with it connected though [12:53] hi Vince-0 [12:53] Kilos! when are you not monitoring this channel [12:54] when im reinstalling or fixing crashed drives [12:54] hehe [12:54] or sleeping [12:55] hi Vince-0 [12:55] haai [12:56] fill auto dhcp [12:56] so then you get dns settings etc [12:56] *full [12:56] and yes you want the default gateway configured too [12:56] but that should be the default configuration on most devices [12:57] on the router or i gotta tell ubuntu [12:57] dhcp does all the work [12:57] just enable full dhcp on the router and nm will pick up the settings via dhcp automatically [12:57] ill try booting with it all connected and see [12:57] yeah you should try that [12:57] i have also had some weird issues like that with network manager [12:57] ty will try that but not now [12:57] then i just reboot and it works fine [12:58] strange thing is that with kubuntu i have none of that [12:58] the kubuntu network manager works a bit better it seems [12:58] oh i didnt think of trying kubuntu [12:58] the drive crashing upset whole day [13:01] gosh darn DSL [13:11] Kilos: on the old ubuntu you could have just called dhclient on the command line [13:11] that also immediately gave you feedback about what it was doing [13:11] however on the new ubuntu they replaced that with network manager [13:12] do you have to call loud [13:12] also the /etc/resolv.conf is now just pointing to localhost and then network manager handles dns queries [13:12] hehe [13:12] i'm not so happy about that, i prefer the old way, was much simpler [13:12] but i guess they had their reasons to change things [13:13] oh i had some resolv.conf probs when ssh ing to another pcto share 3g from here [13:13] i like seeing the raw guts of a system though, not all these extra layers on top [13:13] maybe i should look at arch again [13:14] but last time i tried it my experience sucked [13:14] some basic things like package management was broken after installing from the iso [13:14] one has to add 8.8.8.8 in resolv.conf i think [13:14] that's google dns [13:14] if you want to use that, yes [13:14] no man ubuntu be lekker [13:14] i just use my isp's dns [13:15] there was a prob in 12.04 resolv.conf. i will look up my notes when im ready to try router again [13:15] i literally use my cablemodem on full default configuration [13:17] time you got rich and have fibre laid to you [13:20] hallo o/ [13:20] lo my monkey [13:20] * Kilos throws bananas [13:21] moo [13:21] Kilos: yeah lol [13:21] it's gonna take a while at the current pace [13:22] hi kbmonkey [13:22] hi charl and Kilos [13:22] hehe [13:23] how's it going kbmonkey [13:23] fine man. got a hair cut, woohoo. no more furry monkey [13:23] hey my machine has dhclient, do not think I have ever used that. [13:23] * kbmonkey reads manpage [13:24] kbmonkey: that reminds me of this: http://hak5.org/episodes/episode-505 [13:24] monkey-in-the-middle attack [13:25] nameserver 8.8.8.8 has to be added in /etc/network/interfaces [13:25] when i do sudo dhclient all i get now is RTNETLINK answers: File exists [13:25] it used to actually do a dhcp handshake [13:25] thats what i had to do before [13:25] ha ha, sounds cool charl :> will download that at work tomorrow9~9~1 [13:25] *! sorry, ssh lag [13:25] Kilos: isn't that supposed to go in /etc/resolv.conf ? [13:25] the nameserver? [13:26] you cant write to there in 12.04 it gets overwritten everytime [13:26] kbmonkey: download it at work? lol [13:26] Kilos: yeah exactly [13:26] so it goes in /etc/network/interfaces now? [13:26] interesting [13:27] have to run this too [13:27] echo "nameserver 8.8.8.8" >> /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/head [13:27] whow it all got way too complicated now :( [13:27] yeah squirm told me how [13:28] bah [13:28] no me gusta [13:28] is that for a custom configuration charl ? [13:29] http://i.imgur.com/CGWRLxU.jpg [13:29] lol me gusta [13:29] kbmonkey: yeah everything being managed by network manager now in the new ubuntu [13:29] hence the reaction :) [13:30] still using crunchbang here. debian base good ole :) [13:31] i got a bum cushion of me gusta [13:31] lol srsly? [13:32] i draw him on the glass walls in the office with whiteboard markers on days when business requirements read like launch codes but implement like drunk 5 year old drawings ;) [13:32] wow that sounds almost like where i work [13:33] alternate reality?! wooo [13:34] http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/internet-is-leaking [13:39] lol, how true [13:39] i have a flying spaghetti monster and pedo bear felt animals. [13:39] not that I collect stuffed animals, but yeah these are cool [13:40] lol a pedo bear of all things [13:40] be careful where you put that :P [13:40] my sister makes them [13:40] your sister ! wow that is amazing [13:41] its just felt sewing [13:41] my mom knitted me this thing: http://i.imgur.com/RSP7p.jpg [13:41] but the fsm I had commisioned [13:42] lol its rainbow cat [13:42] poptart cat [13:42] kawaii des ne :P [13:42] i showed it to my mom as a joke and she really liked it [13:42] she made two, she has the other one [13:43] don't have a picture of it though [13:43] mem was coined by richard dawkins, useful fact. [13:43] meme* [13:43] useful? :) [13:44] an idea that spreads through collective memory [13:44] hey gotta make new words to write about stuff ;) [13:50] see charl if you cat /etc/resolv.conf [13:50] so you gotta work around it [14:37] Kilos: yeah [15:41] afternoon all [15:41] hi magespawn [15:41] yo Cantide [15:41] hello everyone~ [15:41] '-'/ [15:43] hi Cantide [15:49] hi magespawn [15:49] hi Cantide [15:50] hi charl :) [15:50] what is everyone up to? [15:50] about to eat dinner here >.< [15:50] Maaz, whats for supper [15:50] A nice thick homemade oxtail and vegetable soup for starters and then Spaghetti bolognaise [15:51] hmm... [15:51] o/ charl [15:52] oh, i like Maaz already [15:52] Maaz, wat eet ons [15:52] Rys vleis en aartapels [15:52] sounds good [15:52] lol [15:52] rys = rice? [15:53] ya [15:53] Maaz lacks commas :D [15:53] Cantide: Sorry... [15:53] it's okay, Maaz; it's not your fault :p [15:53] magespawn, i had an idea [15:53] with the source [15:54] if on puts tea in everywhere coffee is then he should make tea [15:54] it\ [15:55] makes sense [15:55] i lost that source download with this mornings crash [15:55] sigh [15:55] you be able to do an edit like that on the fly [15:55] Kilos: but you have the source [15:56] good mornings [15:56] where inetpro good evening [15:56] hey inetpro [15:56] ya that should work magespawn [15:56] Kilos: how did you install QA? [15:56] carefully [15:56] lol [15:57] IIRC you are running from a source download [15:57] hehe i have the whole package but dunno how to open it to source level [15:57] oh come on [15:57] no i have the package [15:57] even then [15:57] ai! [15:57] ibid is all interpreted code [15:58] is python [15:58] it's not compiled [15:58] ya man i got a .deb package [15:59] ls -l /usr/share/pyshared/ibid/plugins/fun.py [15:59] does that ^^ filke exist? [15:59] file* [15:59] -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 24711 Jan 31 2013 /usr/share/pyshared/ibid/plugins/fun.py [16:00] should i nano it and see [16:00] now if you feel like breaking things start modifying that [16:01] obviously owned by root [16:01] ok lemme try i got lotsa backups now [16:02] don't come crying if it stops working [16:02] the bot or the pc [16:02] ?? [16:02] uh, how far did you want to go? [16:02] just with qa [16:02] ai! [16:02] what now [16:03] go break it now! [16:03] once qa can make coffee and tea [16:03] :-) [16:03] ill try make her braai [16:03] then give that file to the weed [16:03] the quicker you can break it the sooner you can fix it again [16:03] ok here goes [16:04] ouch 628 lines [16:06] have any of you people tried this? http://www.kwheezy.com/en/ [16:06] think i'm going to take it for a sppin [16:06] *spin [16:12] lets see [16:12] QA, tea on [16:12] Kilos: I'm not feeling too well [16:12] uh oh [16:13] QA, coffee on [16:13] Kilos: Huh? [16:13] * Kilos cries [16:13] you cant fiddle with ibids on the fly [16:13] and the bot is sick [16:13] QA, hi [16:13] word [16:14] you need to stop and restart her [16:14] QA, hi [16:14] hola [16:14] ok lets see [16:14] QA, die [16:14] QA coffee please [16:14] bit late [16:14] lol [16:14] patience my man [16:15] QA, hi [16:15] hoe lyk it [16:15] i love this bot she got lotsa greetings [16:15] QA, tea on [16:15] Kilos: That didn't go down very well. Burp. [16:16] ai! [16:16] lol [16:16] QA, coffee please [16:16] Kilos: Sorry... [16:16] well that killed her service [16:16] QA, die [16:16] Kilos: I'm not feeling too well [16:16] hah just reverse the changes [16:17] whew [16:17] easier to delete data.db and drop another one there [16:17] ai! [16:18] that didn't take too long [16:20] QA, coffee on [16:20] Kilos: Sorry... [16:20] ai! [16:20] QA, cow [16:20] Moooo [16:23] lol [16:29] now she very sick [16:32] now she be stupid again [16:32] grrr [16:33] no cloak either [16:38] magespawn, fiddling in python apps isnt so easy [16:39] maybe i shoulda only changed the coffee that was in blue [17:00] maybe [17:00] im not gonna fiddle there again [17:00] will think about it [17:01] copy the file before you fiddle [17:01] lol [17:01] good idea [17:07] i dont think one can just edit python files [17:07] its like filling up a jets fuel tank but not knowing how to start it or fly [17:08] ooo i winder if idle could debug it [17:08] wonder [17:13] a good time to find out [17:29] hmm... [17:29] hehe [17:29] you really broke her? [17:29] ya but shes fixed again [17:29] ah [17:30] goog thing to keep ibid.ini and ibid.db files safe somewhere else [17:30] but why restore the db? [17:31] surely you didn't touch the db? [17:31] just in case that also got corrupt [17:31] ai! [17:31] i dunno what that file messed with [17:31] even the ini file shoudl have stayed exactly the same [17:32] should as well [17:32] i dunno so did her over from scratch [17:33] ibid-setup and all [17:33] ai! [17:33] I think you should address your file editing skills [17:34] yes me too [17:34] and learn about permissions and ownerships [17:34] ai! [17:45] http://thehackernews.com/2013/08/Mark-Zuckerberg-hacked-facebook-hacking-tool.html [17:47] ask him can he hack ibid to make tea and steak [17:47] lol a Kilos [17:47] s/a/at [17:48] i will take a crack at it tomorrow [17:48] hehe [17:48] ok ill be here [17:48] http://thehackernews.com/2013/08/vulnerability-in-usb-internet-modems.html [17:50] hmm... that done even try to open [17:50] dont [17:50] can be our first 'lesson' in python [17:50] opens fine on this side [17:51] i think ibid is very serious python [17:52] oh ya i forgot i gotta first open opera then can click from here [17:54] opera is not your default? [17:55] ya it is but it must stand there open already [17:57] ah [18:05] wow magespawn i wonder if that isnt what happened with the e220 [18:06] i found about 10 smses on it but all numbers and symbols [18:07] thats why it will be good to be able to format the storage to ext4 [18:07] it maybe, i do not know enough to tell [18:08] thats why my hacked arab modem never gives probs [18:09] indeed [18:10] here is an example of one of them smses [18:10] 48656C6C6F21596F75206861766520343937204D422054656C6B6F6D204D6F62696C65206461746120617661696C61626C652E20343937204D422077696C6C20657870697265206F6E2030312F31302F323031332E䡥汬漡奯甠桡癥‴㜳⁍䈠呥汫潭⁍潢楬攠乩杨琠卵牦敲⁤慴愠慶慩污扬攮‴㜳⁍䈠睩汬⁥硰楲攠潮‰ㄯ㄰⼲〱㌮48656C6C6F21596F752068617665203130323430204D42206F662066756C6C2073706565642057692D46692061636365737320617661696C61626C65207768696368207769 [18:10] 6C6C20657870697265206F6E2033312F30382F323031332E [18:12] and the sender is a Q [18:14] certainly seems fishy [18:14] brb [18:28] right now on the pc [18:28] wb [18:29] ty a bit of a mission to get win online [18:29] hahaha [18:29] would not connect to the router wirelessly [18:29] would not connect to the router wirelessly [18:30] man this pc is begging me to format it [18:30] its actually good to use win now and again then one can appreciate coming back to ubuntu [18:45] i have downloaded the source, i will have to play around a bit, but it looks fairly straight forward [18:46] wow [18:46] the whole source on time [18:47] yup not actually that much really [18:47] like 430 ish kb [18:48] ibid 0.1.1 [18:49] this is the section we are interested in http://slexy.org/view/s20BA07TgT [18:51] perhaps we should have an improptu python lesson now [18:53] thats different to where i worked in [18:53] mine didnt start with class [18:54] \Downloads\Ibid-0.1.1.tar\Ibid-0.1.1\ibid\plugins\fun.py [18:55] huh [18:55] what kinda link is that [18:56] not a link, that is the path to the fun.py file on my hard drive, if you download the source you are looking for the fun.py file [18:57] seriously before you modify any file, make sure you know what you modified and how to revert [18:59] but thats in downloads so how you gonna test it [18:59] making a back up of the original is my favorite way of doing a reset when i mess things up [18:59] i wasn't going to test it now, i wanted to have look to see how complicated the file is [19:00] only the coffee part [19:00] sorry i had scrolled back and answered what i saw there [19:00] lol [19:00] you really broke her [19:01] im trying to find that file again [19:01] /usr/share/pyshared/ibid/plugins/fun.py [19:02] the best is not to modify any packaged installation but rather to modify a independent version from source [19:02] independant [19:03] lol [19:03] like install another ibid somewhere [19:03] no need to install [19:03] or run 2 here [19:03] no need to run [19:03] how do you test if you dont install [19:04] you would have to but only after you have changed the file [19:04] whew then install and it dont work [19:04] sjoe [19:04] follow the docs [19:04] http://ibid.omnia.za.net/docs/0.1.0/tutorial.html [19:05] the ibid-plugin is a good idea [19:06] eish i been reading byteofpython and the router book [19:06] yeah plugins are fine but the coffee bit is in the basic install [19:06] if the docs don't help you fight with the devs and tell them to improve the docs [19:06] or help them improve it [19:07] the idea is magespawn to write a tea maker then add it to the working ibid [19:07] so you dont change whats already working [19:07] devs write books for it peeps [19:08] not noobs mechanics or farmers [19:08] it=IT [19:08] Kilos: try making small changes before you tackle the big ones [19:08] Kilos the play.py is in the plugins folder, so it is part of the basic install but still a plugin [19:08] keep it simple [19:08] a cup of tea is small [19:08] lol [19:08] and without sugar is very simple [19:08] changing a tyre is simple [19:09] try writing a program for it, it is not so simple [19:09] would be nice to have the bot make as well as coffee, and then move on from there to anything else really [19:09] missing word is 'tea' [19:10] inetpro: and i have seen people struggle with that too [19:10] magespawn, if one puts that section in idle and adds the tea instead of coffee will idle debug it [19:11] you have to learn to respect guys like the fly and the tumbling weed before you attempt to become like them [19:11] one needs a good python script debugger [19:11] no idea, i have never tried that [19:11] programming is an art [19:11] idle has a debug button [19:11] and a science [19:12] we know inetpro but its very interesting and would be lekker to be able to understand some of it at least [19:12] i think it will be a 'little while' before i get that good, if ever [19:12] that coffee section has serious stuff in it [19:13] Kilos: so start crawling before you try walking and running [19:13] the weed and fly think in python not english and afrikaans [19:14] my knees are sore already man thats why i wanna just change something not rewrite from scratch [19:14] file permissions and editing skills are very important to understand and master [19:14] thats why they are so slow to answer, they first have to get the python to english dictionary out [19:16] just as an example magespawn can you see whats wrong in the greeter script [19:17] the fly looked at it and said it will take a day to fix [19:17] no i can understand some of it, but not enough to fix it [19:17] what is it not doing? [19:18] it greets wrong peeps or something [19:18] i forget now, have had it unplugged for months [19:19] and if i bring qa here with it in she arrives and greets everyone here one by one [19:19] hehe [19:19] lol [19:19] maybe just keep that to your channel [19:19] can you imagine if i send her to #ubuntu [19:19] ill be shot [19:20] we could do a challange for the classes, first one of the students to get the greeter right wins kudos and unlimited coffee [19:20] it needs a memory function added so it only greets newcomers [19:20] rofl [19:21] ohi superfly [19:21] i would have though a timer function so that is greets the person after a vertain amount of time away [19:21] something that might come in handy for beginners is a book like the "Bash Guide for Beginners" http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/Bash-Beginners-Guide.html [19:21] hi Kilos [19:21] hey superfly [19:22] eeek inetpro thats anothe massive book and dont come one time but page by page [19:23] bash=terminal=konsole?? [19:24] ai! [19:25] nee meneer! [19:25] o [19:25] inetpro that is realtively old, is it not outdated? [19:26] no [19:26] cool ty [19:26] Born Again SHell [19:27] well you can also look at the Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ [19:27] but maybe beginners should even take one step backwards [19:28] * inetpro trying to find something more basic [19:28] i seem to learn back to front most of time anyway [19:28] magespawn, learn all that stuff so i can ask you [19:29] yes my lord, at once my lord [19:29] voesek man [19:29] lol [19:30] you watch too many old fashioned movies [19:30] i watch too many movies, period [19:34] maybe "Linux Shell Scripting Tutorial v1.05r3 | A Beginner's handbook" http://www.freeos.com/guides/lsst/ [19:35] ai! [19:36] hmm... maybe not [19:36] cool [19:36] what you hackers up to [19:36] * inetpro need to find some good old docs from the days of yonder [19:37] wanna teach ibids to make to and steak [19:37] inetpro: come on you are not that old [19:37] * superfly is investigating a work issue from Kenya [19:37] magespawn, idle degugger dont work directly [19:38] you supply them as well superfly ? [19:38] Kilos: we have 20 devices in Kenya [19:38] whew [19:40] Maaz, google python script debugging tool [19:40] Kilos: "26.2. pdb — The Python Debugger — Python v2.7.5 documentation" http://docs.python.org/library/pdb.html :: "How to debug python code? - Velocity Reviews" http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t356093-how-to-debug-python-code.html :: "Python debugging tips - Stack Overflow" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1623039/python-debugging-tips :: "Suggestions [19:40] for Python debugging tools? - Stack Overflow" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/477193/su… [19:42] ai! no tools work as simple as a shifting spanner [19:42] i think a program is a little more complex than a nut and bolt [19:43] log.debug [19:43] haha [19:43] magespawn, ^^ [19:44] yo adeebnqo [19:44] Hello :-) [19:45] the big thing about most programming books is that they start at a level that assume that you know your OS and how it is structured with it's permissions et all, let alone how to use an editor [19:46] hehe [19:46] NameError: name 'log' is not defined [19:46] What are we doing? Python programming? [19:46] ya learning [19:46] something like that [19:47] we gonna start classes soon on a learning channel [19:47] everyone welcome [19:47] what was the prize magespawn [19:47] the best debugger is your brain and reading program output [19:47] free coffee and what [19:48] free hugs? [19:48] i try find it [19:50] kudos [19:50] ya thats it [19:50] this is a good place to start - http://docs.python.org/2.7/library/debug.html [19:50] i hate scrolling back [19:51] another place to start: The Beginner’s Guide to Shell Scripting: The Basics http://www.howtogeek.com/67469/the-beginners-guide-to-shell-scripting-the-basics/ [19:51] kbmonkey, we wanna take the ibid script and change coffee to tea and then debug it so it works [19:52] without crashing the bot [19:52] gotcha [19:54] maybe work in a braai with steak, chops and wors, at some point [19:55] even just the basic steak on or something would be good if the bot can call you when its medium rare [19:56] Kilos maybe it would be a good idea to start with original reason behind the #linux-studies before we get into python? [19:57] lol [19:57] like bash basics [19:57] kbmonkey did you set that channel and the wiki up originally? [19:58] ya him [19:58] and the mail thing [19:58] sue him [19:58] ja me? [19:58] you mind if we use it kbmonkey ? [19:58] pretty please [19:59] no wiki and it ws not an official channel, ## [19:59] we will supply our own bot [19:59] sure it is for anything even python [19:59] no man [19:59] got chanserv and everything [20:00] #linux-studies [20:00] magespawn: or [20:00] The Beginners Linux Guide http://www.linux.ie/newusers/beginners-linux-guide/ [20:00] let us ask chanserv [20:01] you even forgot where the channel is kbmonkey [20:13] Maaz, LPI manual [20:13] http://www.linuxcertification.co.za/lpi-study-manual [20:21] good night all [20:21] night laddy [20:22] good night magespawn [20:27] yo jmagunduni [20:28] ey Kilos [20:28] Kilos: wana start a python project? I really need to code [20:29] we are having classes in #linux-studies starting soon [20:30] looks like we gonna be doing some of the basics of linux before we get to python [20:30] but you can get the python book so long [20:31] Maaz, google byteofpython [20:31] Kilos: "A Byte of Python - Swaroop, The Dreamer" http://swaroopch.com/notes/python/ :: "A Byte of Python - Ibiblio" http://www.ibiblio.org/g2swap/byteofpython/files/120/byteofpython_120.pdf :: "A Byte of Python - Ibiblio" http://www.ibiblio.org/g2swap/byteofpython/read/ :: "A Byte of Python - Department of Mathematics" [20:31] http://www.math.ucdavis.edu/~exploration/mme/2012/byteOfPython.pdf :: "A Byte of Python" http://www.byteofpython.info/ :: "A Byte of Py… [20:31] I already know a lil' bit of python -- I'm good, although I've never used OO in it. [20:31] adeebnqo: if you've used Python, you've used OO [20:31] OO is not about classes [20:32] What is it abt? [20:32] *about [20:32] Object Orientation is about objects. [20:32] lol Okay, I've never made my own classes in python [20:33] adeebnqo: what programming languages have you used before? [20:33] Java and C++ [20:34] started with python though [20:34] adeebnqo, you are welcome to join us when we start. magespawn is setting up the learning program i think and it will be one eveing a week [20:34] Ah. Java is not object-orientated (no matter what they say). Java is class-orientated. Ever noticed how EVERYTHING has to be in a class? [20:35] lol gotta agree. When I learning c++, I even hated java bcoz of the classes [20:37] When are the classes starting? [20:37] maybe next week or so [20:38] we are trying to find a day that suits everyone [20:38] adeebnqo: classes are not a bad thing. but, when everything you do is about classes, then it can be distracting and make things complicated [20:39] thats the reason why I like c++, no need for classes all the time [20:40] Yes, but C++ without namespaces is a complete and utter mess [20:40] weare having these classes because im a mechanic and farmer not an IT person [20:42] superfly: how so? [20:43] Kilos: are you referring to the python and Linux classes or java classes? [20:44] python and linux [20:44] adeebnqo: because all your functions and variables end up in the global namespace and you can't segment your code nicely [20:44] on #linux-studies [20:46] That depends on your design though. C++ code is beautiful when one uses header files and source files properly --- I barely uses namespaces. [20:47] *use [20:48] adeebnqo: create any non-trivial project and then you'll understand. [20:51] superfly: I guess you're right [20:54] night all. sleep tight [20:54] see ya morrow [21:18] adeebnqo: files only arrange your code on disk, not inside the program [21:18] adeebnqo: when you compile your program, everything is lumped togeter into one big binary file :-) [21:25] superfly: so you're worried about the structure of the binary file? judging from your statement, it seems like you're saying it's possible to decompile binary files... [21:25] adeebnqo: not at all. I'm just pointing out the reality of what happens when you compile a C++ project [21:26] adeebnqo: you mentioned using header files and source files, and I'm pointing out to you that they actually have no effect on the end product [21:28] superfly: Why would the structure of the code in a binary file matter though? [21:28] adeebnqo: conflicting symbols [21:29] if you have the same variable in two files, even though they are never included together, you'll end up with a linking error [21:30] adeebnqo: each .cpp file is compiled into an object file, and then all the object files are linked together and prefaced with an executable header which includes a "pointer" to the main function [21:30] for real? --- even if that's the case though, c++ is not to blame for that, the compiler (or linker) is. [21:31] because each .cpp file is compiled individually, your two files will compile fine, but when being linked together into the eventual executable, the two symbols will conflict [21:31] adeebnqo: no, actually, you are to blame, for not writing your code properly [21:32] understanding the compiler and the linker is quite fundamental to understanding how to use the programming language properly [21:32] I think that these days, however, compilers tend to make your life easier by including the file name into the symbol name, but that's not necessarily true of all compilers - especially compilers for smaller platforms like ARM [21:34] adeebnqo: open python, and then type "import this" [21:34] any version of python ryt? [21:34] yup [21:35] anyway, I need to get to bed [21:35] work tomorrow as usual, and it's already after 11:30pm [21:35] see yu