[05:53] <Kilos> morning all
[05:53]  * Kilos got pc auto rebooting probs again today
[10:18] <charl> good afternoon
[10:18] <charl> Maaz: coffee on
[10:18]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[10:22] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl!
[11:34] <charl> wb Kilos 
[11:34] <charl> your pc is giving problems?
[11:35] <charl> hi JoTraGo, Space, Mezenir 
[11:38] <Kilos> ty charl 
[11:38] <Kilos> yeah kept rebooting on its own, about 8 times then bios couldnt see the drive anymore
[11:39] <Kilos> grrr
[11:58] <Squirm> hello
[11:59] <Kilos> yo Squirm 
[12:30] <charl> Kilos: that sucks :(
[12:31] <Kilos> yeah some weird prob where power goes to mboard or psu
[12:31] <Kilos> anyway its all going again after wiggling all wires and running fsck from maverick to fix the drive
[12:32] <Kilos> then i spent some time trying to connect ubuntu though eth to 3g in router
[12:32] <Kilos> grrr
[12:33] <Kilos> got it working from xp but ubuntu dont use it as a gateway
[12:36] <charl> that's strange
[12:36] <charl> what kind of router is it?
[12:37] <Kilos> wifi router
[12:38] <charl> oh it's a 3g-wifi bridge device?
[12:38] <Kilos> with 4 eth connectors and usb for 3g modem
[12:38] <Kilos> lol i dunno
[12:39] <Kilos> flat thing, dont look like a bridge
[12:39] <Kilos> 2 wifi aerials sticking up
[12:40] <Kilos> i got the book and read about 3/4 but no info on connecting with linux
[12:40] <Kilos> it has the 3g option as a backup for when adsl crashes
[12:40] <charl> very strange, it should just provide a normal dhcp+nat interface
[12:41] <Kilos> must i use dhcp in nm
[12:42] <Kilos> i think i have tried that too
[12:43] <Kilos> i can configure the router from my browser  but not sure what all to do so got modem here rather
[12:44] <Kilos> automatic dhcp or auto dhcp addresses only?
[12:45] <Kilos> and dont i have to tell nm what the gateway is
[12:46] <Kilos> didnt try booting pc with it connected though
[12:53] <Kilos> hi Vince-0 
[12:53] <Vince-0> Kilos! when are you not monitoring this channel
[12:54] <Kilos> when im reinstalling or fixing crashed drives
[12:54] <Kilos> hehe
[12:54] <Kilos> or sleeping
[12:55] <charl> hi Vince-0 
[12:55] <Vince-0> haai
[12:56] <charl> fill auto dhcp
[12:56] <charl> so then you get dns settings etc
[12:56] <charl> *full
[12:56] <charl> and yes you want the default gateway configured too
[12:56] <charl> but that should be the default configuration on most devices
[12:57] <Kilos> on the router or i gotta tell ubuntu
[12:57] <charl> dhcp does all the work
[12:57] <charl> just enable full dhcp on the router and nm will pick up the settings via dhcp automatically
[12:57] <Kilos> ill try booting with it all connected and see
[12:57] <charl> yeah you should try that
[12:57] <charl> i have also had some weird issues like that with network manager
[12:57] <Kilos> ty will try that but not now
[12:57] <charl> then i just reboot and it works fine
[12:58] <charl> strange thing is that with kubuntu i have none of that
[12:58] <charl> the kubuntu network manager works a bit better it seems
[12:58] <Kilos> oh i didnt think of trying kubuntu
[12:58] <Kilos> the drive crashing upset whole day
[13:01] <Vince-0_> gosh darn DSL
[13:11] <charl> Kilos: on the old ubuntu you could have just called dhclient on the command line
[13:11] <charl> that also immediately gave you feedback about what it was doing
[13:11] <charl> however on the new ubuntu they replaced that with network manager
[13:12] <Kilos> do you have to call loud
[13:12] <charl> also the /etc/resolv.conf is now just pointing to localhost and then network manager handles dns queries
[13:12] <Kilos> hehe
[13:12] <charl> i'm not so happy about that, i prefer the old way, was much simpler
[13:12] <charl> but i guess they had their reasons to change things
[13:13] <Kilos> oh i had some resolv.conf probs when ssh ing to another pcto share 3g from here
[13:13] <charl> i like seeing the raw guts of a system though, not all these extra layers on top
[13:13] <charl> maybe i should look at arch again
[13:14] <charl> but last time i tried it my experience sucked
[13:14] <charl> some basic things like package management was broken after installing from the iso
[13:14] <Kilos> one has to add 8.8.8.8 in resolv.conf i think
[13:14] <charl> that's google dns
[13:14] <charl> if you want to use that, yes
[13:14] <Kilos> no man ubuntu be lekker
[13:14] <charl> i just use my isp's dns
[13:15] <Kilos> there was a prob in 12.04 resolv.conf. i will look up my notes when im ready to try router again
[13:15] <charl> i literally use my cablemodem on full default configuration
[13:17] <Kilos> time you got rich and have fibre laid to you
[13:20] <kbmonkey> hallo o/
[13:20] <Kilos> lo my monkey
[13:20]  * Kilos throws bananas
[13:21] <kbmonkey> moo
[13:21] <charl> Kilos: yeah lol
[13:21] <charl> it's gonna take a while at the current pace
[13:22] <charl> hi kbmonkey 
[13:22] <kbmonkey> hi charl and Kilos 
[13:22] <Kilos> hehe
[13:23] <charl> how's it going kbmonkey 
[13:23] <kbmonkey> fine man. got a hair cut, woohoo. no more furry monkey
[13:23] <kbmonkey> hey my machine has dhclient, do not think I have ever used that.
[13:23]  * kbmonkey reads manpage
[13:24] <charl> kbmonkey: that reminds me of this: http://hak5.org/episodes/episode-505
[13:24] <charl> monkey-in-the-middle attack
[13:25] <Kilos> nameserver 8.8.8.8 has to be added in /etc/network/interfaces
[13:25] <charl> when i do sudo dhclient all i get now is RTNETLINK answers: File exists
[13:25] <charl> it used to actually do a dhcp handshake
[13:25] <Kilos> thats what i had to do before
[13:25] <kbmonkey> ha ha, sounds cool charl :> will download that at work tomorrow9~9~1
[13:25] <kbmonkey> *! sorry, ssh lag
[13:25] <charl> Kilos: isn't that supposed to go in /etc/resolv.conf ?
[13:25] <charl> the nameserver?
[13:26] <Kilos> you cant write to there in 12.04 it gets overwritten everytime
[13:26] <charl> kbmonkey: download it at work? lol
[13:26] <charl> Kilos: yeah exactly
[13:26] <charl> so it goes in /etc/network/interfaces now?
[13:26] <charl> interesting
[13:27] <Kilos> have to run this too
[13:27] <Kilos> echo "nameserver 8.8.8.8" >> /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/head
[13:27] <charl> whow it all got way too complicated now :(
[13:27] <Kilos> yeah squirm told me how
[13:28] <charl> bah
[13:28] <charl> no me gusta
[13:28] <kbmonkey> is that for a custom configuration charl ?
[13:29] <charl> http://i.imgur.com/CGWRLxU.jpg
[13:29] <kbmonkey> lol me gusta 
[13:29] <charl> kbmonkey: yeah everything being managed by network manager now in the new ubuntu
[13:29] <charl> hence the reaction :)
[13:30] <kbmonkey> still using crunchbang here. debian base good ole :)
[13:31] <kbmonkey> i got a bum cushion of me gusta
[13:31] <charl> lol srsly?
[13:32] <kbmonkey> i draw him on the glass walls in the office with whiteboard markers on days when business requirements read like launch codes but implement like drunk 5 year old drawings ;)
[13:32] <charl> wow that sounds almost like where i work
[13:33] <kbmonkey> alternate reality?! wooo
[13:34] <charl> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/internet-is-leaking
[13:39] <kbmonkey> lol, how true
[13:39] <kbmonkey> i have a flying spaghetti monster and pedo bear felt animals.
[13:39] <kbmonkey> not that I collect stuffed animals, but yeah these are cool
[13:40] <charl> lol a pedo bear of all things
[13:40] <charl> be careful where you put that :P
[13:40] <kbmonkey> my sister makes them
[13:40] <charl> your sister ! wow that is amazing
[13:41] <kbmonkey> its just felt sewing
[13:41] <charl> my mom knitted me this thing: http://i.imgur.com/RSP7p.jpg
[13:41] <kbmonkey> but the fsm I had commisioned
[13:42] <kbmonkey> lol its rainbow cat
[13:42] <kbmonkey> poptart cat
[13:42] <charl> kawaii des ne :P
[13:42] <charl> i showed it to my mom as a joke and she really liked it
[13:42] <charl> she made two, she has the other one
[13:43] <charl> don't have a picture of it though
[13:43] <kbmonkey> mem was coined by richard dawkins, useful fact.
[13:43] <kbmonkey> meme*
[13:43] <charl> useful? :)
[13:44] <kbmonkey> an idea that spreads through collective memory
[13:44] <kbmonkey> hey gotta make new words to write about stuff ;)
[13:50] <Kilos> see charl if you  cat /etc/resolv.conf
[13:50] <Kilos> so you gotta work around it
[14:37] <charl> Kilos: yeah
[15:41] <magespawn> afternoon all
[15:41] <Kilos> hi magespawn 
[15:41] <Kilos> yo Cantide 
[15:41] <Cantide> hello everyone~
[15:41] <Cantide> '-'/
[15:43] <magespawn> hi Cantide 
[15:49] <charl> hi magespawn 
[15:49] <charl> hi Cantide 
[15:50] <Cantide> hi charl :)
[15:50] <Cantide> what is everyone up to?
[15:50] <Cantide> about to eat dinner here >.<
[15:50] <Kilos> Maaz, whats for supper
[15:50] <Maaz> A nice thick homemade  oxtail and vegetable soup for starters and then Spaghetti bolognaise
[15:51] <Kilos> hmm...
[15:51] <magespawn> o/ charl 
[15:52] <Cantide> oh, i like Maaz already
[15:52] <Kilos> Maaz, wat eet ons
[15:52] <Maaz> Rys vleis en aartapels
[15:52] <magespawn> sounds good
[15:52] <magespawn> lol
[15:52] <Cantide> rys = rice?
[15:53] <Kilos> ya
[15:53] <Cantide> Maaz lacks commas  :D
[15:53] <Maaz> Cantide: Sorry...
[15:53] <Cantide> it's okay, Maaz; it's not your fault :p
[15:53] <Kilos> magespawn, i had an idea
[15:53] <Kilos> with the source
[15:54] <Kilos> if on puts tea in everywhere coffee is then he should make tea
[15:54] <Kilos> it\
[15:55] <magespawn> makes sense
[15:55] <Kilos> i lost that source download with this mornings crash
[15:55] <Kilos> sigh
[15:55] <magespawn> you be able to do an edit like that on the fly
[15:55] <inetpro> Kilos: but you have the source
[15:56] <inetpro> good mornings
[15:56] <Kilos> where inetpro good evening
[15:56] <magespawn> hey inetpro
[15:56] <Kilos> ya that should work magespawn 
[15:56] <inetpro> Kilos: how did you install QA?
[15:56] <Kilos> carefully
[15:56] <magespawn> lol
[15:57] <inetpro> IIRC you are running from a source download
[15:57] <Kilos> hehe i have the whole package but dunno how to open it to source level
[15:57] <inetpro> oh come on
[15:57] <Kilos> no i have the package
[15:57] <inetpro> even then
[15:57] <Kilos> ai!
[15:57] <inetpro> ibid is all interpreted code
[15:58] <magespawn> is python
[15:58] <inetpro> it's not compiled
[15:58] <Kilos> ya man i got a .deb package
[15:59] <inetpro> ls -l /usr/share/pyshared/ibid/plugins/fun.py
[15:59] <inetpro> does that ^^ filke exist?
[15:59] <inetpro> file*
[15:59] <Kilos> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 24711 Jan 31  2013 /usr/share/pyshared/ibid/plugins/fun.py
[16:00] <Kilos> should i nano it and see
[16:00] <inetpro> now if you feel like breaking things start modifying that
[16:01] <inetpro> obviously owned by root
[16:01] <Kilos> ok lemme try i got lotsa backups now
[16:02] <inetpro> don't come crying if it stops working
[16:02] <Kilos> the bot or the pc
[16:02] <Kilos> ??
[16:02] <inetpro> uh, how far did you want to go?
[16:02] <Kilos> just with qa
[16:02] <inetpro> ai!
[16:02] <Kilos> what now
[16:03] <inetpro> go break it now!
[16:03] <Kilos> once qa can make coffee and tea
[16:03] <inetpro> :-)
[16:03] <Kilos> ill try make her braai
[16:03] <Kilos> then give that file to the weed
[16:03] <inetpro> the quicker you can break it the sooner you can fix it again
[16:03] <Kilos> ok here goes
[16:04] <Kilos> ouch 628 lines
[16:06] <charl> have any of you people tried this? http://www.kwheezy.com/en/
[16:06] <charl> think i'm going to take it for a sppin
[16:06] <charl> *spin
[16:12] <Kilos> lets see
[16:12] <Kilos> QA, tea on
[16:12] <QA> Kilos: I'm not feeling too well
[16:12] <Kilos> uh oh
[16:13] <Kilos> QA, coffee on
[16:13] <QA> Kilos: Huh?
[16:13]  * Kilos cries
[16:13] <Kilos> you cant fiddle with ibids on the fly
[16:13] <magespawn> and the bot is sick
[16:13] <Kilos> QA, hi
[16:13] <QA> word
[16:14] <magespawn> you need to stop and restart her
[16:14] <Kilos> QA, hi
[16:14] <QA> hola
[16:14] <Kilos> ok lets see
[16:14] <Kilos> QA, die
[16:14] <magespawn> QA coffee please
[16:14] <magespawn> bit late 
[16:14] <Kilos> lol
[16:14] <Kilos> patience my man
[16:15] <Kilos> QA, hi
[16:15] <QA> hoe lyk it
[16:15] <Kilos> i love this bot she got lotsa greetings
[16:15] <Kilos> QA, tea on
[16:15] <QA> Kilos: That didn't go down very well. Burp.
[16:16] <Kilos> ai!
[16:16] <magespawn> lol
[16:16] <Kilos> QA, coffee please
[16:16] <QA> Kilos: Sorry...
[16:16] <Kilos> well that killed her service
[16:16] <Kilos> QA, die
[16:16] <QA> Kilos: I'm not feeling too well
[16:16] <magespawn> hah just reverse the changes
[16:17] <Kilos> whew
[16:17] <Kilos> easier to delete data.db and drop another one there
[16:17] <inetpro> ai!
[16:18] <magespawn> that didn't take too long
[16:20] <Kilos> QA, coffee on
[16:20] <QA> Kilos: Sorry...
[16:20] <Kilos> ai!
[16:20] <Kilos> QA, cow
[16:20] <QA> Moooo
[16:23] <magespawn> lol
[16:29] <Kilos> now she very sick
[16:32] <Kilos> now she be stupid again
[16:32] <Kilos> grrr
[16:33] <Kilos> no cloak either
[16:38] <Kilos> magespawn, fiddling in python apps isnt so easy
[16:39] <Kilos> maybe i shoulda only changed the coffee that was in blue
[17:00] <magespawn> maybe
[17:00] <Kilos> im not gonna fiddle there again
[17:00] <Kilos> will think about it
[17:01] <magespawn> copy the file before you fiddle
[17:01] <Kilos> lol
[17:01] <Kilos> good idea
[17:07] <Kilos> i dont think one can just edit python files
[17:07] <Kilos> its like filling up a jets fuel tank but not knowing how to start it or fly
[17:08] <Kilos> ooo i winder if idle could debug it
[17:08] <Kilos> wonder
[17:13] <magespawn> a good time to find out
[17:29] <inetpro> hmm...
[17:29] <Kilos> hehe
[17:29] <inetpro> you really broke her?
[17:29] <Kilos> ya but shes fixed again
[17:29] <inetpro> ah
[17:30] <Kilos> goog thing to keep ibid.ini and ibid.db files safe somewhere else
[17:30] <inetpro> but why restore the db?
[17:31] <inetpro> surely you didn't touch the db?
[17:31] <Kilos> just in case that also got corrupt
[17:31] <inetpro> ai!
[17:31] <Kilos> i dunno what that file messed with
[17:31] <inetpro> even the ini file shoudl have stayed exactly the same
[17:32] <inetpro> should as well
[17:32] <Kilos> i dunno so did her over from scratch
[17:33] <Kilos> ibid-setup and all
[17:33] <inetpro> ai!
[17:33] <inetpro> I think you should address your file editing skills
[17:34] <Kilos> yes me too
[17:34] <inetpro> and learn about permissions and ownerships
[17:34] <Kilos> ai!
[17:45] <magespawn> http://thehackernews.com/2013/08/Mark-Zuckerberg-hacked-facebook-hacking-tool.html
[17:47] <Kilos> ask him can he hack ibid to make tea and steak
[17:47] <magespawn> lol a Kilos 
[17:47] <magespawn> s/a/at
[17:48] <magespawn> i will take a crack at it tomorrow
[17:48] <Kilos> hehe
[17:48] <Kilos> ok ill be here
[17:48] <magespawn> http://thehackernews.com/2013/08/vulnerability-in-usb-internet-modems.html
[17:50] <Kilos> hmm... that done even try to open
[17:50] <Kilos> dont
[17:50] <magespawn> can be our first 'lesson' in python
[17:50] <magespawn> opens fine on this side
[17:51] <Kilos> i think ibid is very serious python
[17:52] <Kilos> oh ya i forgot i gotta first open opera then can click from here
[17:54] <magespawn> opera is not your default?
[17:55] <Kilos> ya it is but it must stand there open already
[17:57] <magespawn> ah
[18:05] <Kilos> wow magespawn i wonder if that isnt what happened with the e220
[18:06] <Kilos> i found about 10 smses on it but all numbers and symbols
[18:07] <Kilos> thats why it will be good to be able to format the storage to ext4
[18:07] <magespawn> it maybe, i do not know enough to tell
[18:08] <Kilos> thats why my hacked arab modem never gives probs
[18:09] <magespawn> indeed
[18:10] <Kilos> here is an example of one of them smses
[18:10] <Kilos> 48656C6C6F21596F75206861766520343937204D422054656C6B6F6D204D6F62696C65206461746120617661696C61626C652E20343937204D422077696C6C20657870697265206F6E2030312F31302F323031332E䡥汬漡奯甠桡癥‴㜳⁍䈠呥汫潭⁍潢楬攠乩杨琠卵牦敲⁤慴愠慶慩污扬攮‴㜳⁍䈠睩汬⁥硰楲攠潮‰ㄯ㄰⼲〱㌮48656C6C6F21596F752068617665203130323430204D42206F662066756C6C2073706565642057692D46692061636365737320617661696C61626C65207768696368207769
[18:10] <Kilos> 6C6C20657870697265206F6E2033312F30382F323031332E
[18:12] <Kilos> and the sender is a Q
[18:14] <magespawn> certainly seems fishy
[18:14] <magespawn> brb
[18:28] <magespawn> right now on the pc
[18:28] <Kilos> wb
[18:29] <magespawn> ty a bit of a mission to get win online
[18:29] <Kilos> hahaha
[18:29] <magespawn> would not connect to the router wirelessly
[18:29] <magespawn> would not connect to the router wirelessly
[18:30] <magespawn> man this pc is begging me to format it
[18:30] <Kilos> its actually good to use win now and again then one can appreciate coming back to ubuntu
[18:45] <magespawn> i have downloaded the source, i will have to play around a bit, but it looks fairly straight forward
[18:46] <Kilos> wow
[18:46] <Kilos> the whole source on time
[18:47] <magespawn> yup not actually that much really
[18:47] <magespawn> like 430 ish kb
[18:48] <magespawn> ibid 0.1.1
[18:49] <magespawn> this is the section we are interested in http://slexy.org/view/s20BA07TgT
[18:51] <magespawn> perhaps we should have an improptu python lesson now
[18:53] <Kilos> thats different to where i worked in
[18:53] <Kilos> mine didnt start with class
[18:54] <magespawn> \Downloads\Ibid-0.1.1.tar\Ibid-0.1.1\ibid\plugins\fun.py
[18:55] <Kilos> huh
[18:55] <Kilos> what kinda link is that
[18:56] <magespawn> not a link, that is the path to the fun.py file on my hard drive, if you download the source you are looking for the fun.py file
[18:57] <inetpro> seriously before you modify any file, make sure you know what you modified and how to revert
[18:59] <Kilos> but thats in downloads so how you gonna test it
[18:59] <magespawn> making a back up of the original is my favorite way of doing a reset when i mess things up
[18:59] <magespawn> i wasn't going to test it now, i wanted to have look to see how complicated the file is
[19:00] <Kilos> only the coffee part
[19:00] <Kilos> sorry i had scrolled back and answered what i saw there
[19:00] <Kilos> lol
[19:00] <Kilos> you really broke her
[19:01] <Kilos> im trying to find that file again
[19:01] <Kilos> /usr/share/pyshared/ibid/plugins/fun.py
[19:02] <inetpro> the best is not to modify any packaged installation but rather to modify a independent version from source
[19:02] <Kilos> independant
[19:03] <magespawn> lol
[19:03] <Kilos> like install another ibid somewhere
[19:03] <magespawn> no need to install
[19:03] <Kilos> or run 2 here
[19:03] <magespawn> no need to run
[19:03] <Kilos> how do you test if you dont install
[19:04] <magespawn> you would have to but only after you have changed the file
[19:04] <Kilos> whew then install and it dont work
[19:04] <Kilos> sjoe
[19:04] <inetpro> follow the docs
[19:04] <inetpro> http://ibid.omnia.za.net/docs/0.1.0/tutorial.html
[19:05] <magespawn> the ibid-plugin is a good idea
[19:06] <Kilos> eish i been reading byteofpython and the router book
[19:06] <Kilos> yeah plugins are fine but the coffee bit is in the basic install
[19:06] <inetpro> if the docs don't help you fight with the devs and tell them to improve the docs
[19:06] <inetpro> or help them improve it
[19:07] <Kilos> the idea is magespawn to write a tea maker then add it to the working ibid
[19:07] <Kilos> so you dont change whats already working
[19:07] <Kilos> devs write books for it peeps
[19:08] <Kilos> not noobs mechanics or farmers
[19:08] <Kilos> it=IT
[19:08] <inetpro> Kilos: try making small changes before you tackle the big ones
[19:08] <magespawn> Kilos the play.py is in the plugins folder, so it is part of the basic install but still a plugin
[19:08] <inetpro> keep it simple
[19:08] <Kilos> a cup of tea is small
[19:08] <magespawn> lol
[19:08] <Kilos> and without sugar is very simple
[19:08] <inetpro> changing a tyre is simple
[19:09] <inetpro> try writing a program for it, it is not so simple
[19:09] <magespawn> would be nice to have the bot make as well as coffee, and then move on from there to anything else really
[19:09] <magespawn> missing word is 'tea'
[19:10] <magespawn> inetpro: and i have seen people struggle with that too
[19:10] <Kilos> magespawn, if one puts that section in idle and adds the tea instead of coffee will idle debug it
[19:11] <inetpro> you have to learn to respect guys like the fly and the tumbling weed before you attempt to become like them
[19:11] <Kilos> one needs a good python script debugger
[19:11] <magespawn> no idea, i have never tried that
[19:11] <inetpro> programming is an art
[19:11] <Kilos> idle has a debug button
[19:11] <magespawn> and a science
[19:12] <Kilos> we know inetpro but its very interesting and would be lekker to be able to understand some of it at least
[19:12] <magespawn> i think it will be a 'little while' before i get that good, if ever
[19:12] <Kilos> that coffee section has serious stuff in it
[19:13] <inetpro> Kilos: so start crawling before you try walking and running
[19:13] <Kilos> the weed and fly think in python not english and afrikaans
[19:14] <Kilos> my knees are sore already man thats why i wanna just change something not rewrite from scratch
[19:14] <inetpro> file permissions and editing skills are very important to understand and master
[19:14] <Kilos> thats why they are so slow to answer, they first have to get the python to english dictionary out
[19:16] <Kilos> just as an example magespawn can you see whats wrong in the greeter script
[19:17] <Kilos> the fly looked at it and said it will take a day to fix
[19:17] <magespawn> no i can understand some of it, but not enough to fix it
[19:17] <magespawn> what is it not doing?
[19:18] <Kilos> it greets wrong peeps or something
[19:18] <Kilos> i forget now, have had it unplugged for months
[19:19] <Kilos> and if i bring qa here with it in she arrives and greets everyone here one by one
[19:19] <Kilos> hehe
[19:19] <magespawn> lol
[19:19] <magespawn> maybe just keep that to your channel
[19:19] <Kilos> can you imagine if i send her to #ubuntu
[19:19] <Kilos> ill be shot
[19:20] <magespawn> we could do a challange for the classes, first one of the students to get the greeter right wins kudos and unlimited coffee
[19:20] <Kilos> it needs a memory function added so it only greets newcomers
[19:20] <Kilos> rofl
[19:21] <Kilos> ohi superfly 
[19:21] <magespawn> i would have though a timer function so that is greets the person after a vertain amount of time away
[19:21] <inetpro> something that might come in handy for beginners is a book like the "Bash Guide for Beginners" http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/Bash-Beginners-Guide.html
[19:21] <superfly> hi Kilos
[19:21] <magespawn> hey superfly
[19:22] <Kilos> eeek inetpro thats anothe massive book and dont come one time but page by page
[19:23] <Kilos> bash=terminal=konsole??
[19:24] <inetpro> ai!
[19:25] <inetpro> nee meneer!
[19:25] <Kilos> o
[19:25] <magespawn> inetpro that is realtively old, is it not outdated?
[19:26] <inetpro> no
[19:26] <magespawn> cool ty
[19:26] <magespawn> Born Again SHell
[19:27] <inetpro> well you can also look at the Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
[19:27] <inetpro> but maybe beginners should even take one step backwards
[19:28]  * inetpro trying to find something more basic
[19:28] <magespawn> i seem to learn back to front most of time anyway
[19:28] <Kilos> magespawn, learn all that stuff so i can ask you
[19:29] <magespawn> yes my lord, at once my lord
[19:29] <Kilos> voesek man
[19:29] <magespawn> lol
[19:30] <Kilos> you watch too many old fashioned movies
[19:30] <magespawn> i watch too many movies, period
[19:34] <inetpro> maybe "Linux Shell Scripting Tutorial v1.05r3 | A Beginner's handbook" http://www.freeos.com/guides/lsst/
[19:35] <Kilos> ai!
[19:36] <inetpro> hmm... maybe not
[19:36] <magespawn> cool 
[19:36] <kbmonkey> what you hackers up to
[19:36]  * inetpro need to find some good old docs from the days of yonder
[19:37] <Kilos> wanna teach ibids to make to and steak
[19:37] <magespawn> inetpro: come on you are not that old
[19:37]  * superfly is investigating a work issue from Kenya
[19:37] <Kilos> magespawn, idle degugger dont work directly
[19:38] <Kilos> you supply them as well superfly ?
[19:38] <superfly> Kilos: we have 20 devices in Kenya
[19:38] <Kilos> whew
[19:40] <Kilos> Maaz, google python script debugging tool
[19:40] <Maaz> Kilos: "26.2. pdb — The Python Debugger — Python v2.7.5 documentation" http://docs.python.org/library/pdb.html :: "How to debug python code? - Velocity Reviews" http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t356093-how-to-debug-python-code.html :: "Python debugging tips - Stack Overflow" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1623039/python-debugging-tips :: "Suggestions
[19:40] <Maaz> for Python debugging tools? - Stack Overflow" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/477193/su…
[19:42] <Kilos> ai! no tools work as simple as a shifting spanner
[19:42] <magespawn> i think a program is a little more complex than a nut and bolt
[19:43] <superfly> log.debug
[19:43] <Kilos> haha
[19:43] <Kilos> magespawn, ^^
[19:44] <Kilos> yo adeebnqo 
[19:44] <adeebnqo> Hello :-)
[19:45] <inetpro> the big thing about most programming books is that they start at a level that assume that you know your OS and how it is structured with it's permissions et all, let alone how to use an editor
[19:46] <Kilos> hehe
[19:46] <Kilos> NameError: name 'log' is not defined
[19:46] <adeebnqo> What are we doing? Python programming?
[19:46] <Kilos> ya learning
[19:46] <magespawn> something like that
[19:47] <Kilos> we gonna start classes soon on a learning channel
[19:47] <Kilos> everyone welcome
[19:47] <Kilos> what was the prize magespawn 
[19:47] <kbmonkey> the best debugger is your brain and reading program output
[19:47] <Kilos> free coffee and what
[19:48] <kbmonkey> free hugs?
[19:48] <Kilos> i try find it
[19:50] <magespawn> kudos
[19:50] <Kilos> ya thats it
[19:50] <kbmonkey> this is a good place to start - http://docs.python.org/2.7/library/debug.html
[19:50] <Kilos> i hate scrolling back
[19:51] <inetpro> another place to start: The Beginner’s Guide to Shell Scripting: The Basics http://www.howtogeek.com/67469/the-beginners-guide-to-shell-scripting-the-basics/
[19:51] <Kilos> kbmonkey, we wanna take the ibid script and change coffee to tea and then debug it so it works
[19:52] <Kilos> without crashing the bot
[19:52] <kbmonkey> gotcha
[19:54] <magespawn> maybe work in a braai with steak, chops and wors, at some point
[19:55] <Kilos> even just the basic steak on or something would be good if the bot can call you when its medium rare
[19:56] <magespawn> Kilos maybe it would be a good idea to start with original reason behind the #linux-studies before we get into python?
[19:57] <Kilos> lol
[19:57] <Kilos> like bash basics
[19:57] <magespawn> kbmonkey did you set that channel and the wiki up originally?
[19:58] <Kilos> ya him
[19:58] <Kilos> and the mail thing
[19:58] <Kilos> sue him
[19:58] <kbmonkey> ja me?
[19:58] <Kilos> you mind if we use it kbmonkey ?
[19:58] <Kilos> pretty please
[19:59] <kbmonkey> no wiki and it ws not an official channel, ##
[19:59] <Kilos> we will supply our own bot
[19:59] <kbmonkey> sure it is for anything even python
[19:59] <Kilos> no man
[19:59] <Kilos> got chanserv and everything
[20:00] <Kilos> #linux-studies
[20:00] <inetpro> magespawn: or
[20:00] <inetpro> The Beginners Linux Guide http://www.linux.ie/newusers/beginners-linux-guide/
[20:00] <kbmonkey> let us ask chanserv
[20:01] <Kilos> you even forgot where the channel is kbmonkey 
[20:13] <Kilos> Maaz, LPI manual
[20:13] <Maaz> http://www.linuxcertification.co.za/lpi-study-manual
[20:21] <magespawn> good night all
[20:21] <Kilos> night laddy
[20:22] <inetpro> good night magespawn
[20:27] <Kilos> yo jmagunduni 
[20:28] <jmagunduni> ey Kilos
[20:28] <adeebnqo> Kilos: wana start a python project? I really need to code
[20:29] <Kilos> we are having classes in #linux-studies starting soon
[20:30] <Kilos> looks like we gonna be doing some of the basics of linux before we get to python
[20:30] <Kilos> but you can get the python book so long
[20:31] <Kilos> Maaz, google byteofpython
[20:31] <Maaz> Kilos: "A Byte of Python - Swaroop, The Dreamer" http://swaroopch.com/notes/python/ :: "A Byte of Python - Ibiblio" http://www.ibiblio.org/g2swap/byteofpython/files/120/byteofpython_120.pdf :: "A Byte of Python - Ibiblio" http://www.ibiblio.org/g2swap/byteofpython/read/ :: "A Byte of Python - Department of Mathematics"
[20:31] <Maaz> http://www.math.ucdavis.edu/~exploration/mme/2012/byteOfPython.pdf :: "A Byte of Python" http://www.byteofpython.info/ :: "A Byte of Py…
[20:31] <adeebnqo> I already know a lil' bit of python -- I'm good, although I've never used OO in it.
[20:31] <superfly> adeebnqo: if you've used Python, you've used OO
[20:31] <superfly> OO is not about classes
[20:32] <adeebnqo> What is it abt?
[20:32] <superfly> *about
[20:32] <superfly> Object Orientation is about objects.
[20:32] <adeebnqo> lol Okay, I've never made my own classes in python
[20:33] <superfly> adeebnqo: what programming languages have you used before?
[20:33] <adeebnqo> Java and C++
[20:34] <adeebnqo> started with python though
[20:34] <Kilos> adeebnqo, you are welcome to join us when we start. magespawn is setting up the learning program i think and it will be one eveing a week
[20:34] <superfly> Ah. Java is not object-orientated (no matter what they say). Java is class-orientated. Ever noticed how EVERYTHING has to be in a class?
[20:35] <adeebnqo> lol gotta agree. When I learning c++, I even hated java bcoz of the classes
[20:37] <adeebnqo> When are the classes starting?
[20:37] <Kilos> maybe next week or so
[20:38] <Kilos> we are trying to find a day that suits everyone
[20:38] <superfly> adeebnqo: classes are not a bad thing. but, when everything you do is about classes, then it can be distracting and make things complicated
[20:39] <adeebnqo> thats the reason why I like c++, no need for classes all the time
[20:40] <superfly> Yes, but C++ without namespaces is a complete and utter mess
[20:40] <Kilos> weare having these classes because im a mechanic and farmer not an IT person
[20:42] <adeebnqo> superfly: how so?
[20:43] <adeebnqo> Kilos: are you referring to the python and Linux classes or java classes?
[20:44] <Kilos> python and linux
[20:44] <superfly> adeebnqo: because all your functions and variables end up in the global namespace and you can't segment your code nicely
[20:44] <Kilos> on #linux-studies
[20:46] <adeebnqo> That depends on your design though. C++ code is beautiful when one uses header files and source files properly --- I barely uses namespaces.
[20:47] <adeebnqo> *use
[20:48] <superfly> adeebnqo: create any non-trivial project and then you'll understand.
[20:51] <adeebnqo> superfly: I guess you're right
[20:54] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[20:54] <Kilos> see ya morrow
[21:18] <superfly> adeebnqo: files only arrange your code on disk, not inside the program
[21:18] <superfly> adeebnqo: when you compile your program, everything is lumped togeter into one big binary file :-)
[21:25] <adeebnqo> superfly: so you're worried about the structure of the binary file? judging from your statement, it seems like you're saying it's possible to decompile binary files...
[21:25] <superfly> adeebnqo: not at all. I'm just pointing out the reality of what happens when you compile a C++ project
[21:26] <superfly> adeebnqo: you mentioned using header files and source files, and I'm pointing out to you that they actually have no effect on the end product
[21:28] <adeebnqo> superfly: Why would the structure of the code in a binary file matter though?
[21:28] <superfly> adeebnqo: conflicting symbols
[21:29] <superfly> if you have the same variable in two files, even though they are never included together, you'll end up with a linking error
[21:30] <superfly> adeebnqo: each .cpp file is compiled into an object file, and then all the object files are linked together and prefaced with an executable header which includes a "pointer" to the main function
[21:30] <adeebnqo> for real? --- even if that's the case though, c++ is not to blame for that, the compiler (or linker) is.
[21:31] <superfly> because each .cpp file is compiled individually, your two files will compile fine, but when being linked together into the eventual executable, the two symbols will conflict
[21:31] <superfly> adeebnqo: no, actually, you are to blame, for not writing your code properly
[21:32] <superfly> understanding the compiler and the linker is quite fundamental to understanding how to use the programming language properly
[21:32] <superfly> I think that these days, however, compilers tend to make your life easier by including the file name into the symbol name, but that's not necessarily true of all compilers - especially compilers for smaller platforms like ARM
[21:34] <superfly> adeebnqo: open python, and then type "import this"
[21:34] <adeebnqo> any version of python ryt?
[21:34] <superfly> yup
[21:35] <superfly> anyway, I need to get to bed
[21:35] <superfly> work tomorrow as usual, and it's already after 11:30pm
[21:35] <adeebnqo> see yu