=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [05:00] Thank you for taking the time to report this crash and helping to make [05:00] this software better. This particular crash has already been reported [05:00] and is a duplicate of bug #1204467 [05:00] Error: Launchpad bug 1204467 could not be found [05:00] exactly my point, lubotu3 [06:43] hello all [08:12] good morning everyone, [08:12] \o brobostigon [08:13] morning MartijnVdS [08:13] :) [08:14] :) [08:20] private bug MartijnVdS === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [08:25] Good morning peeps :) [08:25] Good morning. [08:26] so i've been teaching my baby to do jedi tricks [08:26] http://i.imgur.com/dGoUtYq.jpg [08:26] how is she doing? [08:26] You are an excellent teacher, Master Mungbean. [08:27] Looks like her midichlorians are off the scale. [08:28] morning all [08:28] Good morning. === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [09:16] Goood Morning! [09:17] I'm after a free CalDAV client that doesn't support plain ical-over-http [09:17] mornin [09:17] (in the same way as the OSX calendar app does). Anyone got any suggestions? [09:17] it's only for testing that what I've made really is a calDav feed [09:19] I'm assuming you've tried lightning? [09:19] ah! no, that hadn't ocurred to me [09:19] ta! [09:19] I tried evolution then ran out of ideas and apt-cache only had servers [09:20] I'm not sure if lightning does what you want though [09:21] apparently it does do caldav [09:21] well, sunbird does [09:21] which would save also installing thunderbird [09:22] I've already got an ical fed (which the OSX people grumbled about) so I can quickly see if I can get it to break on that [09:25] Hm. Well it core dumps when I give it an ical feed and tell it that it's caldav [09:25] that's sort-of what I wanted... [09:25] I see [09:25] ouch [09:25] I wonder if it's exploitable? [09:25] :-p [09:26] Haha, that can be this afternoon's project: ) [09:30] Hm. I just asked apt-get to install thunderbird and lightning, I wanted it to say "very very frightning"... [09:32] heh [09:32] BigRedS: you need to do apt-get install scaramoosh for that [09:34] haha [09:49] I'm just a poor girl from a poor family [09:57] Myrtti: do you do the fandango? [09:59] Is it Grimm? [10:00] is it "on core"? [10:20] I am thinking of getting a 321 payg account anyone heard adverse comments about this provider ? [10:21] i have been with three for a while on payg, works well. [10:23] brobostigon: Thanks it just seems so cheap compared to others.. [10:24] twager: it is good value, yes, i get 3000 sms 300 mins and no fup unlimited data for £15 a month, pretty good to me. [10:27] brobostigon: Thanks...I now off to get the sim :-) [10:27] twager: youre welcome. [10:29] Is it next week yet? I want my Galaxy Nexus [10:30] Morning all [10:31] Morning davmor2 [10:32] morning davmor2 [10:37] * popey hugs giffgaff [10:38] 4 phones in our house on giffgaff [10:40] if half of children need more exercise, does that mean that half of children need less exercise? [10:41] ali1234: no, because a certain amount of children has just enough exercise. [10:41] not necessarily [10:41] ali1234: but you can't say from that statement [10:41] if "amount of exercise" is continuous it is somewhat unlikely in fact [11:06] aquarius: Adam Sweet wants to join us on the Real Ale Train (21st September, Hants). You and he should get a hotel room together and come :) [11:07] hard without tickets [11:07] BigRedS: that's almost lug radio live real ale train edition ;) [11:07] popey: last time I looked, there were 4 left [11:07] Gone now :( [11:08] MooDoo: wrong big [11:08] bigcalm: dammit :) [11:36] wget -r -l1 -A.(file ending) http://the.url/path/ is fantastic if you need to grab a bunch of files with the same .ending from a directory on a server :) this is what I have learned today thanks to google and the t'interwebz [11:57] Ahh, I feel so much more relaxed today than normal, can it really just be drinking Red Bush tea instead of coffee thats caused that [12:05] yes [12:06] I switched to decaf, because coffee just makes me get stressed really easily. [12:13] I normally drink decaf so wasn't expecting much of a difference [12:17] DJones: red leaf is sedatory (not sure if that is a word) it is great to help you sleep [12:18] * popey tickles TheOpenSourcerer with Daviey [12:18] soporific is a word davmor2 [12:18] yo [12:18] AlanBell: that'll do too :D ta === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [14:21] http://blogs.esa.int/luca-parmitano/2013/08/20/eva-23-exploring-the-frontier/ [14:21] space people might find this interseting [14:23] mungbean: did you read about the italian while doing an EVA nearly drowning in his suit? [14:24] MooDoo: that's what that article is [14:25] oops didn't read it, just remember seeing this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23777804 [14:25] how dare you not click on my link ;) [14:25] :p [14:25] i bet you ignored my yoda baby link this morning too :P [14:25] yes [14:25] http://i.imgur.com/dGoUtYq.jpg [14:25] took months of training [14:26] awww brill :D [14:26] is that your babby? [14:26] yes [14:27] the pic combines floating ball, hands and frowny face, woouldn't have worked without all three [14:27] she's 5 months [14:42] 4PRIO 1 GOEDE HERDERKERK TEN HARMSENSTRAAT 14 ALPHEN AAN DEN RIJN BEDELVING/INSTORTING (VK: 2) 9194 2271 2233 [14:42] mispaste.. oops [14:42] interesting though ;) [14:43] that looks like METAR, but I know it's not :) [14:45] it's P2000 :) [14:45] Special kind of "text message" for emergency services === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [14:45] ahh [14:46] does anyone in here know a person who's good with HPC? [14:46] i.e. does it for a job [14:46] hpc? [14:46] high performance computing clusters [14:46] those things scary [14:46] mungbean: I do, but they're in Perth, in Australia [14:47] trying to see the size of the market [14:47] mgdm: they have computers in Perth now? [14:47] how niche it is [14:52] Argh, xterm needs to stop nicking my Alt keys [14:53] * Monotoko glares [14:53] mgdm: thats funny, on the hpcwire jobs page they are mostly aussie jobs [14:54] mungbean: hmm, strange [14:54] mungbean: he used to work at Glasgow Uni, and then CERN [14:57] seems like Glasgo Uni is good for job prospects [15:00] Might've been Strathclyde, actually === mooky_ is now known as mooky [16:05] dammit, I forgot to have lunch [16:12] Oxford has a supercomputing centre for HPC. Unfortunately I've only ever used it as a user. [16:19] mungbean: I know a bunch of people who do a lot of HPS stuff, I used to work for SGI. [16:19] *HPC [16:20] bah [16:20] Windows :( [16:20] There are quite a lot of big installations which SGI has looked after over the past few years, but they tend to be relatively dispersed around the UK. === alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD === mgdm is now known as SirFailALot === SirFailALot is now known as MM6YHF [18:10] http://gizmodo.com/5977989/internet-explorer-vs-murder-rate-will-be-your-favorite-chart-today [18:10] joy [19:17] * popey wonders if someone will make https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Rich for Ubuntu ☻ [19:19] i will make it if you will buy it [19:20] you could set up a crowdfunding campaign to raise $32m to develop it [19:20] ooooh, zing [19:20] brilliant [19:21] just reading some of the stuff in the edge aftermath [19:21] is it safe to unmute my canonical g+ circle yet? [19:21] i'm of the opinion that the only winner out of the last month is indiegogo [19:21] i don't think anyone won [19:21] or paypal [19:22] whoever held the pledges in escrow would have earned a nice chunk of interest off $12m [19:22] any interest they earned from holding the money will not cover the admin costs [19:22] what admin costs? [19:22] and the interest of 1 month would be... nothing given current interest rates [19:22] admin costs? well, like the cost of running a payment processing service? [19:22] you really think either entity won't hold escrow funds in an aggressively high interest account? [19:23] those payments are part and parcel of the service [19:23] "aggressively high interest" means what, 2% APR? [19:23] about $10,000 tops [19:24] yeah i concur [19:24] it's peanuts to paypal [19:24] plus you have the admin cost of taking a payment, and then refunding it [19:25] plus all the problems if anything in that process messes up... then there's support costs [19:25] or about 36 cents per refund [19:25] hmm? [19:25] that is dividing the interest by the number of refunds [19:25] ah [19:26] if the admin cost of taking the money and giving it back is more than 36 cents then they lost money on the deal [19:26] yeah [19:26] 36 cents is pretty cheap for a transaction [19:26] there will be random stuff in there, like credit cards that expired during the month [19:27] how much would the CC companies take if the payments weren't refunded? more, i bet [19:27] yeah, and then the person will have to ring up paypal support and get it sorted, which takes time [19:28] should've accepted bitcoin [19:28] like that's easy to deal with [19:28] http://www.practicalecommerce.com/articles/4107-Beware-Credit-Card-Processing-Fees-Especially-Refunds [19:29] $32M is only 1.6% of BTC market cap [19:29] and you've answered your own question [19:29] why? [19:30] if you have to ask ... [19:30] it doesnt go back to the credit card though does it [19:30] it goes back to paypal [19:31] so expired credit cards aren't an issue (for paypal / indiegogo / canonical) [19:31] i don't know [19:31] I'll tell you when I get my 50 bucks back ㋛ [19:31] pretty bad if the refund ends up stuck inside paypal... [19:31] eww [19:31] but then, that's why i refuse to use them [19:31] but not everyone will have used paypal ... [19:31] people paid with paypal, so yeah, I expect them to go back [19:32] yeah, they will, because that is the only thing indiegogo accepts [19:32] you can use a credit card with paypal [19:32] and bypass paypal itself [19:32] ali1234: if you're with a faster payments bank, you can pull cash out of paypal within 2 hours, usually within minutes [19:32] and most major uk banks do faster payments now [19:32] only if you give paypal your bank details [19:32] why wouldn't you? [19:32] then you have to transfer it back on to your credit card [19:33] and that'll take a couple of days [19:33] i wouldn't give paypal my bank details because then they can take money from my account any time they want without my authorization [19:33] so you probably won't pay much/any interest [19:33] people who backed less than 500, it could go directly backto their card they used [19:33] ali1234: i didn't sign up to a direct debit [19:33] and without the protection a credit card gives you [19:33] for people paying over 500, it will probably go to paypal [19:33] so paypal can only credit me, not debit [19:33] what guarantee do you have of that? [19:34] a massive one [19:34] btw you can't pay more than £500 without having a verified paypal account [19:34] indeed [19:34] that caused problems for some people backing edge [19:34] where verified means - you gave them your bank account details so they can take money at any time [19:34] had to wait a couple of days [19:34] they have no authorisation to collect funds from my account [19:34] i have a verified account [19:34] do you believe that will stop them? [19:34] yes [19:35] because they have no authorisation from me [19:35] why? when it has happened so many times? [19:35] it's never, ever, ever happened to me [19:35] and therefore it never will [19:35] giving someone my bank details doesn't give them the capability to take money from my account [19:35] it does with paypal [19:35] how? [19:36] i didn't sign up to the direct debit [19:36] isn't that what Jeremy Clarkson said to his cost? [19:36] it reminds me every time i check my bank details [19:36] if you link a bank account, you can make purchases and have it debited automatically [19:36] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7174760.stm [19:36] ali1234: only if you set up a direct debit [19:36] so how did you get a verified account without signing up to the direct debit? [19:36] i dunno [19:36] probably grandfathered in [19:37] that's a paradox, isn't it? :-p [19:37] huh [19:37] it says i've completed the direct debit instruction [19:38] but it also says i haven't completed the direct debit instruction [19:38] lol [19:38] the rules used to be much more lax [19:38] oh, i see, it's my second bank account [19:38] I've been a user of paypal since the early days and haven't had any issues that I can recall [19:39] me too, it doesn't mean i can ignore all the well documented problems others have had [19:39] spooky [19:39] AlanBell: That story would have been a bank error though, anybody can write sort code & ccount number on a direct debit mandate & scribble a signature or fill the details in online, but at the end of the day its not authorised by the account holder so the bank would have to refund it [19:39] Bank accounts - Royal Bank of Scotland x-XXXX (Primary) (Unconfirmed) [19:39] just got a paypal payment [19:40] oh, also, it was dollars [19:40] do you get back the pound value at the original exchange rate or the prevailing rate? [19:40] DJones: totally [19:41] AlanBell: you'll get it back in the currency you sent it [19:41] so when it becomes GBP, it'll be at the prevailing rate [19:41] Probably at current exchange rates though [19:42] july 22 it was approx $0.6512 = £1 [19:42] right now it's $0.6416 = £1 [19:42] although paypal's rates will naturally differ [19:44] so off of a $699 charge, you'd lose about $7 [19:44] £7, sorry [19:45] pretty ridiculous to me that a crowdfunding campaign service takes the payment before the campaign has run [19:46] tis why i prefer kickstarter [19:46] no goals met, no charges [19:47] yeah but kickstarter has those pesky rules like requiring a working prototype [19:47] funny, i thought they had some [19:47] nope [19:47] just an empty case [19:47] popey? [19:47] were you playing with an empty case? [19:48] hmm? [19:49] it was an engineering prototype, no electronics in it [19:49] awwww [19:51] so has any crowd funding campaign ever missed their target by a larger amount? [19:52] no [19:52] \o/ breaking records \o/ [19:52] but then no crowd funding campaign has ever earned as much, either :-p [19:53] except star citizen [19:59] i just remembered i made that bet on betsofbitco.in [20:00] you bet that edge would fail? [20:01] yes [20:01] as did everyone else, but since i got in early, i still made about $5 [20:02] although for some reason it has not been closed yet [20:02] http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1691 [20:02] lol [20:04] "On September 10th Apple will announce a new version of the iPhone with a fingerprint scanner built into the home button." [20:04] seems unlikely to me [20:05] but nobody bet against it [20:05] despite the hooks in the ios 7 code [20:05] oh? you got insider info? [20:05] there were a ton of articles when the relevant beta came out [20:05] like at least a month ago [20:06] i don't follow apple stuff really. actually, at all [20:06] http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/07/fingerprint-based-unlocking-shows-up-in-latest-ios-7-beta/ [20:06] cool [20:08] "Julian Assange, or another candidate from the Wikileaks Party, will be elected to the Australian Senate in the 2013 Australian federal election." this one also seems unlikely to me, but it has more bets on it happening than against [20:09] Never mind! There's a new campaign! [20:09] http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/linca-exiler-smartphone [20:09] that's how you start a campaign [20:10] basic cost, then a perk cost (in this case, the cases), then bundles [20:10] none of this early bird, later bird, random bird, tiers that change, then a flat higher/lower cost [20:10] angry bird? [20:11] that's what we need [20:11] heh [20:11] Ubuntu 50.04 Angry Bird [20:11] that looks really shady... [20:11] you think people will still know what Angry Birds was by 2050? [20:11] probably [20:12] Don't let facts get in the way of a daft joke [20:12] :) [20:12] people still know what star wars was [20:12] popey: not ubuntu on this one? [20:12] surprised you didn't say "you think people will now what ubuntu was by 2050" [20:12] open source can't be put back in the box [20:13] people will know what linux was long after they have forgotten about microsoft [20:13] doubtful [20:13] no, not at all [20:14] copyright has this effect [20:14] yeah, that's why no-one remembers the coca-cola company [20:14] coca cola still makes products [20:15] and why wouldn't microsoft still be around in 2050? [20:15] oh they will [20:15] i'm thinking more like 3050 [20:15] our flying linux cars will fall from the sky in 2038 [20:16] so how would they be forgotten about [20:16] you think linux will still be around in 2050? [20:16] popey: :) [20:16] err, s/2050/3050/ [20:16] yes, of course it will [20:16] who's to say another disruptor won't come along and convert us all again? [20:17] and those wounded in the fallen cars will covered in open sores [20:17] Yeah. I mean, ReactOS might get big [20:17] :) [20:17] since linux is open source it is much more likely that it gets forked [20:17] i wouldn't be surprised if in 3050 there was still the full commit history back to today's linux kernels [20:18] microsoft's source code though? yeah you'll have to go raking through landfills to find that [20:19] EINE TAUSENDJÄHRIGE REICH! [20:20] sorry, watched inglourious basterds the other day :) [20:20] "Drei Gläser!" [20:20] i think it's a really interesting topic, actually [20:21] we are creating so much digital media now, which never has to decay [20:21] i think it's a nice idea, but there's a strong possibility something else could come along and blow linux away [20:21] what do we know about people from 1000 years ago? nothing. what will people know about us in 1000 years? everything [20:22] yeah, we know nothing about 1013 ... [20:22] 2050 isn't that far away. Look at how much COBOL there is still in the world. That's not going away either [20:22] (comparitively) [20:22] it is slowly [20:22] pooooopey! [20:22] as popey says, i'd say the 2K38 bug is more pressing than there being cobol in the world [20:22] well, not overnight. And some of it is probably of a similar vintage [20:23] popey: OS on that thingie? :-) [20:23] COBOL is 54 years old [20:23] C is 41 years old [20:24] as time progresses, that 13 year gap becomes progressively more small, relatively speaking [20:24] C isn't going anywhere though [20:24] neither is COBOL, apparently [20:25] only as legacy though [20:25] you sure? [20:25] yeah, pretty sure [20:25] "In 1997, the Gartner Group reported that 80% of the world's business ran on COBOL with over 200 billion lines of code in existence and with an estimated 5 billion lines of new code annually." [20:26] i doubt many people set out to write a whole new system in COBOL [20:26] 1997 lol [20:26] but there are so many systems still running that have been running for years, decades [20:26] that was 16 years ago [20:26] People born in 1997 are now 16? Oh [20:26] so they are === MM6YHF is now known as mgdm [20:26] and were replaced leading up to 2000 [20:26] also i find that statistic hard to reconcile with real facts, like how microsoft windows has a massive monopoly and isn't written in COBOL [20:26] popey: or fixed [20:27] we replaced so many systems leading up to 2000 [20:27] just because you did (and I did too), doesn't mean everyone did [20:27] I didnt say it did [20:27] don't take everything so literally [20:27] i wasn't intending to, sorry :) [20:27] but you know what i mean [20:28] I do. [20:29] if you had a time machine and you could only go into the future or the past, which one would you pick? [20:30] past [20:30] i would go to the future [20:30] because that stuff is kwown [20:30] kwown? known [20:30] worst case, 99% of humans are dead and it's exactly like going to the past [20:30] best case: flying cars, robots and spaceships [20:31] you know over 99% of humans are dead anyway [20:31] lol [20:31] ok mr pedantic [20:31] what i mean is the earth's population is reduced to 1% of what it is today [20:31] ok, i got my numbers wrong [20:31] a 2011 estimate says 107.6bn humans born, ever [20:32] 6.987bn alive in mid-2011 [20:32] percentage alive, 6.5% [20:32] yeah that whole "more living than dead" thing has been debunked [20:32] what thing? [20:32] there was a meme that there are more people alive today than have died ever [20:32] that sounds pretty stupid :) [20:32] i think it might have been on QI [20:33] well at some point it was true [20:33] hopefully there was a huge WEEEUUUUUUURR, WEEEEUUUUUUURRR noise after someone said that [20:33] though of course it depends how you define "human" with evolution and all that [20:33] the numbers talk about homo sapiens [20:33] 50,000 BC: 2 [20:33] 8,000 BC: 5m [20:33] 1 AD: 300m [20:33] etc [20:34] although the 50,000 BC time estimate is a bit iffy [20:34] weird. have disabled lightdm bongo sound in dconf-editor and it still plays the noise [20:34] anyway, it doesn't matter, it's completely false [20:34] i wasn't trying to defend it :) [20:35] my point is the worst case for the future is like the past, except maybe with more radiation [20:35] so anyway, my point is, "legacy" systems still potentially have life in them [20:35] and a higher sea level [20:35] due to the potential cost of replacing systems that work pretty reliably as-is [20:36] ali1234, neuro: the truth is that the planet is growing at such at rate that +is* thought to be unsustainable [20:36] there will always be interesting enthusiasts keeping things running [20:37] oh sure [20:37] i know a guy who loves his VAXen [20:37]