| schlopo | quit | 04:53 |
|---|---|---|
| schlopo | Greetings...anyone here yet? | 18:44 |
| cqfd93 | Hi! | 18:48 |
| schlopo | Hey Sylvie! | 18:49 |
| schlopo | mornin' (or afternoon..or evening), Hannie | 18:54 |
| hannie | hey, schlopo how are you doing? | 18:55 |
| cqfd93 | Good evening, Hannie! | 18:55 |
| hannie | hi everyone | 18:55 |
| schlopo | Very well. Good to see a few people arrive early...it means I did the UTC time conversion correctly! | 18:55 |
| hannie | let's hope the others are right on time :) | 18:55 |
| cqfd93 | schlopo, you can have the Ubuntu clock display UTC time along with your local time | 18:57 |
| schlopo | shhhh....I'm on Windows8, not Ubuntu. :) | 18:59 |
| hannie | You're joking... | 19:00 |
| schlopo | I'm not. I run all Ubuntu variants in a virtual machine. Must have a Windows product for my financing software. | 19:00 |
| * schlopo guesses I could do the reverse...Ubuntu as my main system and run W8 in a virtual machine. | 19:01 | |
| hannie | Don't you use multi-boot? | 19:01 |
| hannie | I have Windows on one hardrive, ubuntu on another | 19:01 |
| hannie | Works fine | 19:01 |
| schlopo | Food for thought for sure. | 19:02 |
| cqfd93 | I'm glad I don't have windows8 ;-) | 19:02 |
| hannie | As long as you do not have Windows 8 | 19:02 |
| godbyk | Hey, guys. Sorry I'm late. | 19:02 |
| hannie | Wait until you buy your next computer :( | 19:03 |
| cqfd93 | Hi Kevin! | 19:03 |
| schlopo | The way software is heading, it's all going to be in the cloud soon (a la Adobe and Photoshop).... | 19:03 |
| schlopo | ...just need a browser and that's it. | 19:03 |
| hannie | hi godbyk | 19:03 |
| schlopo | Hey Kevin! | 19:03 |
| cqfd93 | I buy computers without OS | 19:03 |
| schlopo | ...we'll wait a few more minutes, then get started. | 19:03 |
| schlopo | I, personally, need to hold to the 1hr limit do to other obligations today. | 19:04 |
| hannie | Yes, I am expecting Jim to join too | 19:04 |
| CarstenG | Hi at all | 19:04 |
| cqfd93 | Hi All! | 19:04 |
| hannie | hi CarstenG | 19:04 |
| schlopo | CG's in the house....good to see you. | 19:05 |
| hannie | schlopo, we should be finished before 20:00 UTC | 19:05 |
| CarstenG | hi schlopo :-) | 19:05 |
| schlopo | ...ok, let's get going...give me a few seconds to get meetingology set up. | 19:06 |
| schlopo | #startmeeting | 19:06 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Sat Aug 24 19:07:12 2013 UTC. The chair is schlopo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 19:06 |
| meetingology | Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired | 19:06 |
| schlopo | #chair schlopo | 19:07 |
| meetingology | Current chairs: schlopo | 19:07 |
| schlopo | #meetingtopic Authors and Editions meeting #2 for Ubuntu 13.10 | 19:07 |
| schlopo | Alright, we're live. Please announce for the purposes of minutes and attendance. | 19:07 |
| schlopo | Heree | 19:08 |
| hannie | I'm present ;) | 19:08 |
| CarstenG | here | 19:08 |
| cqfd93 | here! | 19:08 |
| godbyk | I'm here. | 19:08 |
| schlopo | #topic Upcoming Schedule/Due Dates | 19:09 |
| schlopo | Looks like September 19th, 2013 is our next due date. Any issues with this date? Concerns? | 19:09 |
| hannie | Well, not all chapters have authors, but we won't get any before sept 19th I guess | 19:10 |
| hannie | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApS28NMLnYJXdEdGQjRtUWtaOUZxREVzUldSOU5kc2c#gid=0 | 19:10 |
| hannie | I personally am not too concerned about it | 19:10 |
| hannie | Raring and Saucy do not differ that much | 19:11 |
| schlopo | there are a few holes in the desktop chapter, but if you're not concerned, I'm not either. | 19:11 |
| hannie | I think we have to go through the chapters without authors to see if they need some changes | 19:11 |
| schlopo | I see that a column has been added to the spreadsheet indicating the status of a section from the author's perspective. Good call. | 19:12 |
| hannie | Yes, I did that | 19:12 |
| hannie | I want to be able to see if an author has finished | 19:12 |
| schlopo | Very helpful. I'll update my sections' status (stati? statum?) by tomorrow evening. | 19:13 |
| hannie | And editors status too, but that comes later | 19:13 |
| godbyk | hannie: Good idea. That'll work well with our new \status command. | 19:13 |
| CarstenG | hannie: Is it useful, to say »finished« before the feature Freeze? | 19:13 |
| godbyk | hannie: I'll see if I can generate a list of those statuses for you this weekend. | 19:13 |
| hannie | CarstenG, yes, there could still be changes, but not mayor ones | 19:13 |
| CarstenG | ok | 19:14 |
| schlopo | godbyk: assuming others have been using it (guess retrieving these statuses from the lastest rev will answer that question) | 19:14 |
| hannie | It is up to the author to bring in last changes | 19:14 |
| godbyk | schlopo: True. From watching the commits it looks like a lot of people have been updating them. | 19:15 |
| godbyk | schlopo: But we also have the date they were updated, so we will know when they haven't been keeping up to date. | 19:15 |
| schlopo | godbyk: Great! | 19:15 |
| schlopo | Any other input/concerns regarding upcoming due dates? | 19:16 |
| hannie | Well, like I said before, the line between authoring and editing becomes very thin. Some proofreading and editing has been done already | 19:17 |
| schlopo | Yea, it's going to definitely blend, especially since we've improved on our author<->editor connections this iteration. | 19:17 |
| schlopo | I think Kevin pulling a status report (and maybe emailing it to the list?) will be helpful in seeing who has yet to touch their section. | 19:18 |
| schlopo | ...and also which authors-editors are way ahead of the game. | 19:18 |
| hannie | schlopo, has thomas stopped contributing completely, or will he continue doing wine? | 19:18 |
| schlopo | Not sure about thomas... | 19:19 |
| schlopo | got an email from him saying he wanted to drop out of authoring, but still wanted to write a Wine section? | 19:19 |
| hannie | Ok. The wine section does not need to be changed because it has nothing to do with saucy anyway | 19:19 |
| schlopo | Almost sounds like he wants to do that exclusive to the manual. | 19:19 |
| godbyk | I think Thomas is interested in creating an entire manual just for Wine. | 19:20 |
| schlopo | I removed him from his assigned sections and assigned myself to them. | 19:20 |
| godbyk | I'm not sure if he's still going to work on the Wine section in our manual or not. | 19:20 |
| schlopo | godbyk: I'll take a look at it. | 19:20 |
| hannie | yes, so I understand. But I do not know if he still maintains our wine section | 19:20 |
| schlopo | Wine is under Advanced Topics. I'll own it. | 19:21 |
| hannie | ok, so that is solved then | 19:21 |
| schlopo | #action schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas | 19:22 |
| meetingology | ACTION: schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas | 19:22 |
| schlopo | #topic Communication with authors | 19:22 |
| hannie | CarstenG, can we already start making screenshots? | 19:22 |
| hannie | schlopo, sorry, that was not on the agenda... | 19:23 |
| CarstenG | hannie: Well, I would not before UI freeze on 19th September | 19:23 |
| hannie | ok | 19:24 |
| schlopo | No worries... :) | 19:24 |
| schlopo | Re: author communication, I intend to send out communication to all authors reminding them of the upcoming due dates. Again, will be helpful to have Kevin's data pulled from section statuses. | 19:24 |
| schlopo | I'm going to target (with a direct email) those who've not shown any activity. | 19:24 |
| godbyk | schlopo: I'll get that to you this weekend. | 19:24 |
| schlopo | ...the intent being to not hit the September 19th deadline with sections undone. | 19:25 |
| schlopo | godbyk: thanks... | 19:25 |
| schlopo | #action godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators | 19:25 |
| meetingology | ACTION: godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators | 19:25 |
| schlopo | #action schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections. | 19:26 |
| meetingology | ACTION: schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections. | 19:26 |
| schlopo | #topic Open Q & A | 19:27 |
| hannie | thanks in advance for the list, godbyk | 19:27 |
| godbyk | hannie: No problem. That's what the \status command is for. :) | 19:27 |
| schlopo | Alright...the floor's open...any issues/concerns we can tackle? | 19:27 |
| hannie | schlopo, do you mind if I move the email addresses from the spreadsheet to a separate sheet? | 19:28 |
| hannie | I already did, but I left yours where they were | 19:29 |
| schlopo | hannie: sure. | 19:29 |
| hannie | And do we need permission to put somebody's address on the sheet? | 19:29 |
| godbyk | I would avoid putting their addresses in the sheet since it's public. | 19:30 |
| godbyk | If it were restricted to fewer people, I wouldn't have a problem with it, though. | 19:30 |
| hannie | But they are there already, should we remove them and publish them in a sheet that is not public? | 19:30 |
| CarstenG | btw, why do we have the email addresses there? We all are at LP and on the Mailinglist. | 19:30 |
| hannie | So you want me to remove them completely? | 19:31 |
| schlopo | CarstenG: The mailing list can get noisy. | 19:31 |
| godbyk | CarstenG: I think they were just added there out of convenience. It makes it easy to copy and paste when you need to email a particular chapter's author or all the authors. | 19:32 |
| CarstenG | Well, if someone wants to contact someone else, he find the email address on LP or on the list (if that one has already written to the list) | 19:32 |
| hannie | CarstenG, you need to know a person's LP name | 19:32 |
| hannie | which is often a nick | 19:33 |
| schlopo | Yea, let's just put the LP username. They can take this name to LP and find the address. A few extra steps is all. | 19:33 |
| CarstenG | This you see in the commit messages on bzr :-) | 19:33 |
| godbyk | CarstenG: Unless you want to email someone who hasn't been committing. ;-) | 19:33 |
| hannie | So we should add the LP names to the spreadsheet and remove the email addresses? | 19:34 |
| CarstenG | godbyk: Yes, you are right. :-) But do we have authors, who did not yet made a bzr commit? | 19:34 |
| schlopo | hannie: Yes | 19:34 |
| CarstenG | hannie: Yes, this sound better to me :-) | 19:34 |
| hannie | Ok, I can do it if you like | 19:34 |
| schlopo | Are you willing to do this, hannie? | 19:35 |
| hannie | ok | 19:35 |
| godbyk | I think that's a good solution. | 19:35 |
| godbyk | It makes it more difficult for spammers to harvest the email addresses. | 19:35 |
| schlopo | #action hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks | 19:35 |
| meetingology | ACTION: hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks | 19:35 |
| CarstenG | btw, can someone find the google document without having the specific link? | 19:36 |
| hannie | that's a good question. I think not. | 19:36 |
| hannie | Share options: everone who has the link... | 19:37 |
| schlopo | The link to the spreadsheet is in the NOTES section of the ubuntu-manual wiki, so, in terms of availability, it's easy to find. | 19:37 |
| hannie | is allowed to make changes to the spreadsheet | 19:37 |
| godbyk | Well, I have it organized in my Ubuntu Manual folder on Google Drive. | 19:37 |
| godbyk | But we can also add a link to the style guide if it'd be helpful. | 19:38 |
| schlopo | godbyk: ...also, in the NOTES section on the ubuntu-manual wiki | 19:38 |
| schlopo | I've added quite a bit information to this section as I (personally) was getting tired of filtering through old emails for how-tos, style guides, installation/customization instructions, etc. | 19:39 |
| hannie | Is it wise to make the link public (put it on the wiki)? | 19:39 |
| godbyk | I'm slowly trying to add all this info to the style guide so it can be the first place to check. | 19:39 |
| hannie | When we only spread it via our mailing list it will be available only to members of UMP | 19:40 |
| schlopo | The way I see it, if it's emailed (in a list or not), it's public. | 19:40 |
| godbyk | schlopo: Agreed. The mailing list has public archives. | 19:40 |
| hannie | The mailing list is only for members | 19:40 |
| schlopo | godbyk: I DEFINITELY would like to consolidate this information...maybe make a manual for the manual ?! | 19:41 |
| godbyk | schlopo: Yeah, that's essentially what the style guide is. | 19:41 |
| CarstenG | hannie: the list is for members, but the archive is public | 19:41 |
| hannie | ah, yes, public archives. You are right. | 19:41 |
| hannie | Would it be better to change the spreadsheet's share options so only members can change it? | 19:42 |
| schlopo | hannie: this doesn't solve the "privacy" concern, but it does prevent someone from going in and wiping away all the data. | 19:43 |
| schlopo | ...but then, it turns into a management concern (adding / removing members) | 19:44 |
| hannie | I am more concerned about the privacy then the risk of someone deleting the contents. I have a copy on my pc | 19:44 |
| hannie | *than | 19:44 |
| schlopo | hannie: true | 19:45 |
| CarstenG | btw, why do we have this informations on a google shreadsheet? We also can do it on the wiki, or? | 19:45 |
| hannie | The wiki needs a lot of manual formatting | 19:45 |
| CarstenG | spreadsheet... | 19:45 |
| hannie | The spreadsheet is much easier to use | 19:45 |
| schlopo | hannie, are you planning to call an editor's meeting in the future? Is there a need to rally your base in this regard? | 19:46 |
| hannie | Well, I am not a meeting tiger :) | 19:46 |
| godbyk | I'd suggest having an editors meeting closer to the authoring deadline. | 19:46 |
| * schlopo isn't either | 19:46 | |
| godbyk | Just to make sure we didn't lose any editors and that they're ready to start editing. | 19:46 |
| hannie | If not necessary, I will not plan one. I prefer to use our ml | 19:46 |
| hannie | I do send editors a pm | 19:47 |
| godbyk | hannie: Good thinking. | 19:47 |
| hannie | And I try to keep in touch by email | 19:47 |
| hannie | But like with authors, there will be chapters without editors too | 19:48 |
| hannie | there are not too many gaps though. I am quite happy with the editors we have right now | 19:49 |
| * schlopo notes we have 10 minutes left. | 19:50 | |
| hannie | I want to ask authors to reduce the number of marginnotes (if you all agree, that is) | 19:51 |
| * schlopo wonders if Sylvie dropped off the face of the IRC map. | 19:51 | |
| schlopo | YES! | 19:51 |
| schlopo | ABSOLUTELY! | 19:51 |
| hannie | We have already discussed it in the past. I prefer to see text on the page itself | 19:51 |
| schlopo | THANK YOU! | 19:51 |
| * schlopo is excited at this suggestion (in case there be any doubt) | 19:52 | |
| godbyk | I agree with that sentiment. | 19:52 |
| godbyk | The margin notes should be for optional material only. Short asides. | 19:52 |
| godbyk | They especially shouldn't be lengthy paragraphs. | 19:52 |
| schlopo | ...and also screenshots in the marginnotes! I think this is a bad idea. | 19:52 |
| CarstenG | hannie: You are right. It is also less work to move the marginnotes in the translations to the right place. | 19:52 |
| hannie | schlopo, shall I send an email to our ml about this? | 19:52 |
| schlopo | marginnotes should extend a concept...not explain a new one. Many notes I've come across are paragraphs in and of themselves. | 19:53 |
| godbyk | (Aside from the style issue, I usually have to finesse the position of the margin notes a bit before publication. So fewer margin notes would mean less work for me. :-)) | 19:53 |
| schlopo | godbyk: You're welcome! | 19:53 |
| CarstenG | godbyk: Yes, this point I mean :-) | 19:53 |
| hannie | So we agree: the less marginnotes the better | 19:53 |
| godbyk | As far as screenshots in the margins... the only screenshots that should be in the margin are ones that are naturally small enough to fit there. | 19:53 |
| hannie | cqfd93, where are you? Hiding somewhere? | 19:54 |
| schlopo | hannie: yes, if you'd do that, I believe the UMP world would be in harmony. | 19:54 |
| godbyk | (Otherwise it looks awkward to have a tiny screenshot surrounded by inches of white space.) | 19:54 |
| CarstenG | yes, programm icons are IMHO ok in marginnotes. | 19:54 |
| cqfd93 | I'm here, reading :-) | 19:54 |
| schlopo | CarstenG: alright...I've give in on this one! | 19:54 |
| schlopo | cqfd93: Good! :) | 19:54 |
| hannie | cqfd93, sorry for not asking you too about the screenshots | 19:54 |
| cqfd93 | I just don't have much to say! | 19:55 |
| hannie | np | 19:55 |
| hannie | No translation questions? | 19:55 |
| cqfd93 | I agree we have to wait until the UI freeze | 19:55 |
| hannie | good | 19:55 |
| schlopo | #action hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary). | 19:55 |
| meetingology | ACTION: hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary). | 19:55 |
| cqfd93 | small screenshots like menus are ok in marginnotes | 19:56 |
| schlopo | I think we need to start now (on a non LTS release) to whittle down the marginnotes, so that the upcoming LTS release yields a much cleaner manual. | 19:57 |
| hannie | During the final phase we will go through the whole document to see if we can minimise margin notes (chapters without author/editor) | 19:57 |
| hannie | Is it minimise in US and minimize in GB? | 19:58 |
| schlopo | hannie: Yes. With a Z in the US. | 19:58 |
| hannie | thanks | 19:58 |
| schlopo | Center vs Centre | 19:58 |
| schlopo | Utilise vs Utilize | 19:58 |
| schlopo | oy vey! | 19:58 |
| godbyk | Hooked on Phonics worked for us! ;-) | 19:59 |
| hannie | I should stick to the agenda, I am a bit naughty | 19:59 |
| godbyk | Btw, speaking of translations, you guys are filling up my bookshelf pretty quickly: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5067756/IMG_20130824_145634.jpg | 19:59 |
| hannie | WOW! That looks pretty impressive | 20:00 |
| schlopo | Ya' know, Kevin, THAT is just a beautiful picture! | 20:00 |
| schlopo | A lot of volunteer person-hours represented there. | 20:00 |
| cqfd93 | wow! | 20:00 |
| CarstenG | godbyk: Very nice. :-) | 20:00 |
| schlopo | A true testament to a geographically diverse community coming together to accomplish a task. | 20:00 |
| godbyk | And those are just from the past year. I don't have back copies of all the previous manuals. | 20:00 |
| CarstenG | Would be good for the website :-) | 20:00 |
| schlopo | CarstenG: +1 | 20:01 |
| godbyk | I'll try to take a better photo without the glare of the flash sometime. | 20:01 |
| CarstenG | godbyk: And did you read all the books? ;-) | 20:01 |
| hannie | ok, and put it on the website | 20:01 |
| godbyk | Does anyone think it'd be worth it to move the older versions of the manual from lulu.com to createspace.com/amazon.com? | 20:02 |
| godbyk | Or should we just leave them there? | 20:02 |
| cqfd93 | godbyk: I don't see the French version for 12.10... | 20:02 |
| godbyk | I haven't checked, but I doubt that many people are buying the older versions. | 20:02 |
| godbyk | cqfd93: Yeah, I missed that one. I'll have to order it next. :-) | 20:02 |
| cqfd93 | ;-) | 20:02 |
| schlopo | Alright...on this VERY motivating note (thanks to our fearless leader)...are there any other issues? | 20:03 |
| hannie | I would not move them to createspace, except of course 12.04 | 20:03 |
| godbyk | hannie: I think all the 12.04 are on CreateSpace except for the English edition. I'll double-check. | 20:04 |
| hannie | excellent | 20:04 |
| schlopo | Ok...so this will be the last author's meeting I'll chair. I'll punt now to hannie to coordinate any editor communication (which I, too, will join). | 20:05 |
| godbyk | schlopo: Thanks for your help with coordinating the authors. | 20:05 |
| hannie | Thanks for handing it over to me, schlopo ;) | 20:05 |
| schlopo | Thanks for being here! I'll post the logs of this meeting to the wiki and tackle most (if not all) my action items by Sunday evening. | 20:05 |
| schlopo | godbyk: My please. | 20:06 |
| schlopo | hannie: sure thing. | 20:06 |
| schlopo | godbyk: *pleasure. | 20:06 |
| hannie | godbyk, +1, thanks schlopo for all you do as authors coordinator | 20:06 |
| schlopo | #endmeeting | 20:06 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended Sat Aug 24 20:06:47 2013 UTC. | 20:06 |
| meetingology | Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-08-24-19.07.moin.txt | 20:06 |
| meetingology | Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-08-24-19.07.html | 20:06 |
| schlopo | Bye everyone! Have a great weekend. | 20:07 |
| godbyk | See you later, schlopo. | 20:07 |
| cqfd93 | Bye schlopo! | 20:07 |
| hannie | bye all | 20:08 |
| CarstenG | bye all | 20:08 |
| cqfd93 | by all! | 20:08 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
