[04:53] <schlopo> quit
[18:44] <schlopo> Greetings...anyone here yet?
[18:48] <cqfd93> Hi!
[18:49] <schlopo> Hey Sylvie!
[18:54] <schlopo> mornin' (or afternoon..or evening), Hannie
[18:55] <hannie> hey, schlopo how are you doing?
[18:55] <cqfd93> Good evening, Hannie!
[18:55] <hannie> hi everyone
[18:55] <schlopo> Very well. Good to see a few people arrive early...it means I did the UTC time conversion correctly!
[18:55] <hannie> let's hope the others are right on time :)
[18:57] <cqfd93> schlopo, you can have the Ubuntu clock display UTC time along with your local time
[18:59] <schlopo> shhhh....I'm on Windows8, not Ubuntu. :)
[19:00] <hannie> You're joking...
[19:00] <schlopo> I'm not.  I run all Ubuntu variants in a virtual machine.  Must have a Windows product for my financing software.
[19:01]  * schlopo guesses I could do the reverse...Ubuntu as my main system and run W8 in a virtual machine.
[19:01] <hannie> Don't you use multi-boot?
[19:01] <hannie> I have Windows on one hardrive, ubuntu on another
[19:01] <hannie> Works fine
[19:02] <schlopo> Food for thought for sure.
[19:02] <cqfd93> I'm glad I don't have windows8 ;-)
[19:02] <hannie> As long as you do not have Windows 8
[19:02] <godbyk> Hey, guys. Sorry I'm late.
[19:03] <hannie> Wait until you buy your next computer :(
[19:03] <cqfd93> Hi Kevin!
[19:03] <schlopo> The way software is heading, it's all going to be in the cloud soon (a la Adobe and Photoshop)....
[19:03] <schlopo> ...just need a browser and that's it.
[19:03] <hannie> hi godbyk
[19:03] <schlopo> Hey Kevin!
[19:03] <cqfd93> I buy computers without OS
[19:03] <schlopo> ...we'll wait a few more minutes, then get started.
[19:04] <schlopo> I, personally, need to hold to the 1hr limit do to other obligations today.
[19:04] <hannie> Yes, I am expecting Jim to join too
[19:04] <CarstenG> Hi at all
[19:04] <cqfd93> Hi All!
[19:04] <hannie> hi CarstenG
[19:05] <schlopo> CG's in the house....good to see you.
[19:05] <hannie> schlopo, we should be finished before 20:00 UTC
[19:05] <CarstenG> hi schlopo :-)
[19:06] <schlopo> ...ok, let's get going...give me a few seconds to get meetingology set up.
[19:06] <schlopo> #startmeeting
[19:06] <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Aug 24 19:07:12 2013 UTC.  The chair is schlopo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:06] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[19:07] <schlopo> #chair schlopo
[19:07] <meetingology> Current chairs: schlopo
[19:07] <schlopo> #meetingtopic Authors and Editions meeting #2 for Ubuntu 13.10
[19:07] <schlopo> Alright, we're live. Please announce for the purposes of minutes and attendance.
[19:08] <schlopo> Heree
[19:08] <hannie> I'm present ;)
[19:08] <CarstenG> here
[19:08] <cqfd93> here!
[19:08] <godbyk> I'm here.
[19:09] <schlopo> #topic Upcoming Schedule/Due Dates
[19:09] <schlopo> Looks like September 19th, 2013 is our next due date. Any issues with this date? Concerns?
[19:10] <hannie> Well, not all chapters have authors, but we won't get any before sept 19th I guess
[19:10] <hannie> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApS28NMLnYJXdEdGQjRtUWtaOUZxREVzUldSOU5kc2c#gid=0
[19:10] <hannie> I personally am not too concerned about it
[19:11] <hannie> Raring and Saucy do not differ that much
[19:11] <schlopo> there are a few holes in the desktop chapter, but if you're not concerned, I'm not either.
[19:11] <hannie> I think we have to go through the chapters without authors to see if they need some changes
[19:12] <schlopo> I see that a column has been added to the spreadsheet indicating the status of a section from the author's perspective. Good call.
[19:12] <hannie> Yes, I did that
[19:12] <hannie> I want to be able to see if an author has finished
[19:13] <schlopo> Very helpful. I'll update my sections' status (stati? statum?) by tomorrow evening.
[19:13] <hannie> And editors status too, but that comes later
[19:13] <godbyk> hannie: Good idea. That'll work well with our new \status command.
[19:13] <CarstenG> hannie: Is it useful, to say »finished« before the feature Freeze?
[19:13] <godbyk> hannie: I'll see if I can generate a list of those statuses for you this weekend.
[19:13] <hannie> CarstenG, yes, there could still be changes, but not mayor ones
[19:14] <CarstenG> ok
[19:14] <schlopo> godbyk: assuming others have been using it (guess retrieving these statuses from the lastest rev will answer that question)
[19:14] <hannie> It is up to the author to bring in last changes
[19:15] <godbyk> schlopo: True. From watching the commits it looks like a lot of people have been updating them.
[19:15] <godbyk> schlopo: But we also have the date they were updated, so we will know when they haven't been keeping up to date.
[19:15] <schlopo> godbyk: Great!
[19:16] <schlopo> Any other input/concerns regarding upcoming due dates?
[19:17] <hannie> Well, like I said before, the line between authoring and editing becomes very thin. Some proofreading and editing has been done already
[19:17] <schlopo> Yea, it's going to definitely blend, especially since we've improved on our author<->editor connections this iteration.
[19:18] <schlopo> I think Kevin pulling a status report (and maybe emailing it to the list?) will be helpful in seeing who has yet to touch their section.
[19:18] <schlopo> ...and also which authors-editors are way ahead of the game.
[19:18] <hannie> schlopo, has thomas stopped contributing completely, or will he continue doing wine?
[19:19] <schlopo> Not sure about thomas...
[19:19] <schlopo> got an email from him saying he wanted to drop out of authoring, but still wanted to write a Wine section?
[19:19] <hannie> Ok. The wine section does not need to be changed because it has nothing to do with saucy anyway
[19:19] <schlopo> Almost sounds like he wants to do that exclusive to the manual.
[19:20] <godbyk> I think Thomas is interested in creating an entire manual just for Wine.
[19:20] <schlopo> I removed him from his assigned sections and assigned myself to them.
[19:20] <godbyk> I'm not sure if he's still going to work on the Wine section in our manual or not.
[19:20] <schlopo> godbyk: I'll take a look at it.
[19:20] <hannie> yes, so I understand. But I do not know if he still maintains our wine section
[19:21] <schlopo> Wine is under Advanced Topics. I'll own it.
[19:21] <hannie> ok, so that is solved then
[19:22] <schlopo> #action schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas
[19:22] <meetingology> ACTION: schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas
[19:22] <schlopo> #topic Communication with authors
[19:22] <hannie> CarstenG, can we already start making screenshots?
[19:23] <hannie> schlopo, sorry, that was not on the agenda...
[19:23] <CarstenG> hannie: Well, I would not before UI freeze on 19th September
[19:24] <hannie> ok
[19:24] <schlopo> No worries... :)
[19:24] <schlopo> Re: author communication, I intend to send out communication to all authors reminding them of the upcoming due dates. Again, will be helpful to have Kevin's data pulled from section statuses.
[19:24] <schlopo> I'm going to target (with a direct email) those who've not shown any activity.
[19:24] <godbyk> schlopo: I'll get that to you this weekend.
[19:25] <schlopo> ...the intent being to not hit the September 19th deadline with sections undone.
[19:25] <schlopo> godbyk: thanks...
[19:25] <schlopo> #action godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators
[19:25] <meetingology> ACTION: godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators
[19:26] <schlopo> #action schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections.
[19:26] <meetingology> ACTION: schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections.
[19:27] <schlopo> #topic Open Q & A
[19:27] <hannie> thanks in advance for the list, godbyk
[19:27] <godbyk> hannie: No problem. That's what the \status command is for. :)
[19:27] <schlopo> Alright...the floor's open...any issues/concerns we can tackle?
[19:28] <hannie> schlopo, do you mind if I move the email addresses from the spreadsheet to a separate sheet?
[19:29] <hannie> I already did, but I left yours where they were
[19:29] <schlopo> hannie: sure.
[19:29] <hannie> And do we need permission to put somebody's address on the sheet?
[19:30] <godbyk> I would avoid putting their addresses in the sheet since it's public.
[19:30] <godbyk> If it were restricted to fewer people, I wouldn't have a problem with it, though.
[19:30] <hannie> But they are there already, should we remove them and publish them in a sheet that is not public?
[19:30] <CarstenG> btw, why do we have the email addresses there? We all are at LP and on the Mailinglist.
[19:31] <hannie> So you want me to remove them completely?
[19:31] <schlopo> CarstenG: The mailing list can get noisy.
[19:32] <godbyk> CarstenG: I think they were just added there out of convenience. It makes it easy to copy and paste when you need to email a particular chapter's author or all the authors.
[19:32] <CarstenG> Well, if someone wants to contact someone else, he find the email address on LP or on the list (if that one has already written to the list)
[19:32] <hannie> CarstenG, you need to know a person's LP name
[19:33] <hannie> which is often a nick
[19:33] <schlopo> Yea, let's just put the LP username. They can take this name to LP and find the address.  A few extra steps is all.
[19:33] <CarstenG> This you see in the commit messages on bzr :-)
[19:33] <godbyk> CarstenG: Unless you want to email someone who hasn't been committing. ;-)
[19:34] <hannie> So we should add the LP names to the spreadsheet and remove the email addresses?
[19:34] <CarstenG> godbyk: Yes, you are right. :-) But do we have authors, who did not yet made a bzr commit?
[19:34] <schlopo> hannie: Yes
[19:34] <CarstenG> hannie: Yes, this sound better to me :-)
[19:34] <hannie> Ok, I can do it if you like
[19:35] <schlopo> Are you willing to do this, hannie?
[19:35] <hannie> ok
[19:35] <godbyk> I think that's a good solution.
[19:35] <godbyk> It makes it more difficult for spammers to harvest the email addresses.
[19:35] <schlopo> #action hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks
[19:35] <meetingology> ACTION: hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks
[19:36] <CarstenG> btw, can someone find the google document without having the specific link?
[19:36] <hannie> that's a good question. I think not.
[19:37] <hannie> Share options: everone who has the link...
[19:37] <schlopo> The link to the spreadsheet is in the NOTES section of the ubuntu-manual wiki, so, in terms of availability, it's easy to find.
[19:37] <hannie> is allowed to make changes to the spreadsheet
[19:37] <godbyk> Well, I have it organized in my Ubuntu Manual folder on Google Drive.
[19:38] <godbyk> But we can also add a link to the style guide if it'd be helpful.
[19:38] <schlopo> godbyk: ...also, in the NOTES section on the ubuntu-manual wiki
[19:39] <schlopo> I've added quite a bit information to this section as I (personally) was getting tired of filtering through old emails for how-tos, style guides, installation/customization instructions, etc.
[19:39] <hannie> Is it wise to make the link public (put it on the wiki)?
[19:39] <godbyk> I'm slowly trying to add all this info to the style guide so it can be the first place to check.
[19:40] <hannie> When we only spread it via our mailing list it will be available only to members of UMP
[19:40] <schlopo> The way I see it, if it's emailed (in a list or not), it's public.
[19:40] <godbyk> schlopo: Agreed. The mailing list has public archives.
[19:40] <hannie> The mailing list is only for members
[19:41] <schlopo> godbyk: I DEFINITELY would like to consolidate this information...maybe make a manual for the manual ?!
[19:41] <godbyk> schlopo: Yeah, that's essentially what the style guide is.
[19:41] <CarstenG> hannie: the list is for members, but the archive is public
[19:41] <hannie> ah, yes, public archives. You are right.
[19:42] <hannie> Would it be better to change the spreadsheet's share options so only members can change it?
[19:43] <schlopo> hannie: this doesn't solve the "privacy" concern, but it does prevent someone from going in and wiping away all the data.
[19:44] <schlopo> ...but then, it turns into a management concern (adding / removing members)
[19:44] <hannie> I am more concerned about the privacy then the risk of someone deleting the contents. I have a copy on my pc
[19:44] <hannie> *than
[19:45] <schlopo> hannie: true
[19:45] <CarstenG> btw, why do we have this informations on a google shreadsheet? We also can do it on the wiki, or?
[19:45] <hannie> The wiki needs a lot of manual formatting
[19:45] <CarstenG> spreadsheet...
[19:45] <hannie> The spreadsheet is much easier to use
[19:46] <schlopo> hannie, are you planning to call an editor's meeting in the future? Is there a need to rally your base in this regard?
[19:46] <hannie> Well, I am not a meeting tiger :)
[19:46] <godbyk> I'd suggest having an editors meeting closer to the authoring deadline.
[19:46]  * schlopo isn't either
[19:46] <godbyk> Just to make sure we didn't lose any editors and that they're ready to start editing.
[19:46] <hannie> If not necessary, I will not plan one. I prefer to use our ml
[19:47] <hannie> I do send editors a pm
[19:47] <godbyk> hannie: Good thinking.
[19:47] <hannie> And I try to keep in touch by email
[19:48] <hannie> But like with authors, there will be chapters without editors too
[19:49] <hannie> there are not too many gaps though. I am quite happy with the editors we have right now
[19:50]  * schlopo notes we have 10 minutes left.
[19:51] <hannie> I want to ask authors to reduce the number of marginnotes (if you all agree, that is)
[19:51]  * schlopo wonders if Sylvie dropped off the face of the IRC map.
[19:51] <schlopo> YES!
[19:51] <schlopo> ABSOLUTELY!
[19:51] <hannie> We have already discussed it in the past. I prefer to see text on the page itself
[19:51] <schlopo> THANK YOU!
[19:52]  * schlopo is excited at this suggestion (in case there be any doubt)
[19:52] <godbyk> I agree with that sentiment.
[19:52] <godbyk> The margin notes should be for optional material only. Short asides.
[19:52] <godbyk> They especially shouldn't be lengthy paragraphs.
[19:52] <schlopo> ...and also screenshots in the marginnotes! I think this is a bad idea.
[19:52] <CarstenG> hannie: You are right. It is also less work to move the marginnotes in the translations to the right place.
[19:52] <hannie> schlopo, shall I send an email to our ml about this?
[19:53] <schlopo> marginnotes should extend a concept...not explain a new one. Many notes I've come across are paragraphs in and of themselves.
[19:53] <godbyk> (Aside from the style issue, I usually have to finesse the position of the margin notes a bit before publication. So fewer margin notes would mean less work for me. :-))
[19:53] <schlopo> godbyk: You're welcome!
[19:53] <CarstenG> godbyk: Yes, this point I mean :-)
[19:53] <hannie> So we agree: the less marginnotes the better
[19:53] <godbyk> As far as screenshots in the margins... the only screenshots that should be in the margin are ones that are naturally small enough to fit there.
[19:54] <hannie> cqfd93, where are you? Hiding somewhere?
[19:54] <schlopo> hannie: yes, if you'd do that, I believe the UMP world would be in harmony.
[19:54] <godbyk> (Otherwise it looks awkward to have a tiny screenshot surrounded by inches of white space.)
[19:54] <CarstenG> yes, programm icons are IMHO ok in marginnotes.
[19:54] <cqfd93> I'm here, reading :-)
[19:54] <schlopo> CarstenG: alright...I've give in on this one!
[19:54] <schlopo> cqfd93: Good! :)
[19:54] <hannie> cqfd93, sorry for not asking you too about the screenshots
[19:55] <cqfd93> I just don't have much to say!
[19:55] <hannie> np
[19:55] <hannie> No translation questions?
[19:55] <cqfd93> I agree we have to wait until the UI freeze
[19:55] <hannie> good
[19:55] <schlopo> #action hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary).
[19:55] <meetingology> ACTION: hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary).
[19:56] <cqfd93> small screenshots like menus are ok in marginnotes
[19:57] <schlopo> I think we need to start now (on a non LTS release) to whittle down the marginnotes, so that the upcoming LTS release yields a much cleaner manual.
[19:57] <hannie> During the final phase we will go through the whole document to see if we can minimise margin notes (chapters without author/editor)
[19:58] <hannie> Is it minimise in US and minimize in GB?
[19:58] <schlopo> hannie: Yes.  With a Z in the US.
[19:58] <hannie> thanks
[19:58] <schlopo> Center vs Centre
[19:58] <schlopo> Utilise vs Utilize
[19:58] <schlopo> oy vey!
[19:59] <godbyk> Hooked on Phonics worked for us!  ;-)
[19:59] <hannie> I should stick to the agenda, I am a bit naughty
[19:59] <godbyk> Btw, speaking of translations, you guys are filling up my bookshelf pretty quickly: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5067756/IMG_20130824_145634.jpg
[20:00] <hannie> WOW! That looks pretty impressive
[20:00] <schlopo> Ya' know, Kevin, THAT is just a beautiful picture!
[20:00] <schlopo> A lot of volunteer person-hours represented there.
[20:00] <cqfd93> wow!
[20:00] <CarstenG> godbyk: Very nice. :-)
[20:00] <schlopo> A true testament to a geographically diverse community coming together to accomplish a task.
[20:00] <godbyk> And those are just from the past year. I don't have back copies of all the previous manuals.
[20:00] <CarstenG> Would be good for the website :-)
[20:01] <schlopo> CarstenG: +1
[20:01] <godbyk> I'll try to take a better photo without the glare of the flash sometime.
[20:01] <CarstenG> godbyk: And did you read all the books? ;-)
[20:01] <hannie> ok, and put it on the website
[20:02] <godbyk> Does anyone think it'd be worth it to move the older versions of the manual from lulu.com to createspace.com/amazon.com?
[20:02] <godbyk> Or should we just leave them there?
[20:02] <cqfd93> godbyk: I don't see the French version for 12.10...
[20:02] <godbyk> I haven't checked, but I doubt that many people are buying the older versions.
[20:02] <godbyk> cqfd93: Yeah, I missed that one. I'll have to order it next. :-)
[20:02] <cqfd93> ;-)
[20:03] <schlopo> Alright...on this VERY motivating note (thanks to our fearless leader)...are there any other issues?
[20:03] <hannie> I would not move them to createspace, except of course 12.04
[20:04] <godbyk> hannie: I think all the 12.04 are on CreateSpace except for the English edition. I'll double-check.
[20:04] <hannie> excellent
[20:05] <schlopo> Ok...so this will be the last author's meeting I'll chair. I'll punt now to hannie to coordinate any editor communication (which I, too, will join).
[20:05] <godbyk> schlopo: Thanks for your help with coordinating the authors.
[20:05] <hannie> Thanks for handing it over to me, schlopo ;)
[20:05] <schlopo> Thanks for being here! I'll post the logs of this meeting to the wiki and tackle most (if not all) my action items by Sunday evening.
[20:06] <schlopo> godbyk: My please.
[20:06] <schlopo> hannie: sure thing.
[20:06] <schlopo> godbyk: *pleasure.
[20:06] <hannie> godbyk, +1, thanks schlopo for all you do as authors coordinator
[20:06] <schlopo> #endmeeting
[20:06] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Aug 24 20:06:47 2013 UTC.
[20:06] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-08-24-19.07.moin.txt
[20:06] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-08-24-19.07.html
[20:07] <schlopo> Bye everyone! Have a great weekend.
[20:07] <godbyk> See you later, schlopo.
[20:07] <cqfd93> Bye schlopo!
[20:08] <hannie> bye all
[20:08] <CarstenG> bye all
[20:08] <cqfd93> by all!