[07:58] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:10] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[08:10] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[10:42] <SuperEngineer> o/
[10:47]  * SuperEngineer watches BTCC in prep for Grand Prix coverage
[10:47] <SuperEngineer> [it's far more interesting than searching for where Steam nicked my disk space] ;)
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: ~/.steam probabl
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> or ~/.local/share/Steam
[10:54] <SuperEngineer> been hunting in both - can't find the4 [5?] GB it nickeed after cancelling a download
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: check using 'baobab'
[10:55] <SuperEngineer> [seemed to reserve space somehow and not release it]
[10:55] <SuperEngineer> baobab - heard of that [and not just the tree]
[10:56] <SuperEngineer> oh - du - been using that in x and in CLI
[10:56] <SuperEngineer> [to no joy]
[10:58] <SuperEngineer> Steam taking 33GB [18 installed games though]  ;)
[11:00] <SuperEngineer> [but baobab is an extremely appropriate name for dua]
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: there should be a temp file, or a directory withthe name of the download you cancelled
[11:06] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: http://imagebin.org/268726 it's somewhere is Left for Dead...
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> somewhere in the steam dir
[11:06] <SuperEngineer> started downloading beta which is now live - cancelled it [already have non-beta & happy with it]
[11:07] <SuperEngineer> ho hum - nearly F1 time - that'll take my mind off it!
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> F1!
[11:08] <SuperEngineer> Belgium GP coverage starts 12.10 BBC1
[11:09] <SuperEngineer> race starts in 50 mins
[11:10] <SuperEngineer> ..and here comes the theme music!
[11:46] <SuperEngineer> phew! just started  a steam game directly from the .exe file... wrong!  killed output to monitor
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> .exe file?!
[11:47] <SuperEngineer> [fortunately it was showing on HDMI on tv... very wrong resolution - but enough to do a clean a shut down
[11:48] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yup - found that in the Left for Dead folder
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> weird.. but probably best for consistency to name the executable that everywhere
[11:48] <SuperEngineer> hmmm
[11:49] <SuperEngineer> [also found the Left for Dead folder has a Left for Dead folder inside it!
[11:49] <SuperEngineer> messy
[11:52] <SuperEngineer> Anyone here have Left FOr Dead installed under Steam - a comparison would be wonderful right now ;)
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> 1 or 2 ?
[11:55] <SuperEngineer> F1 race -5 folks
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> yeah, just got the official intro :)
[11:55] <brobostigon> ST4 voyage home, ch4 2.30pm, :)
[11:55] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: 2
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> would have been there, but camping is NOT for me
[11:56] <MartijnVdS>  + sunburn
[11:56] <MartijnVdS>  + feeling bad overall
[11:56] <MartijnVdS>   = early drive home
[11:56] <brobostigon> glamping would be more for me, i like my bath, :)
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yeah, if I go again, it'll be race-day only, and sleeping in a hotel
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> and with friends
[11:57] <brobostigon> :)
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> oh well, I have some photos and videos
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> (see G+)
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> had a walk around the circuit on Friday
[11:58] <brobostigon> :)
[11:59] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: which directory do you want to compare?
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> [zo 14:00] :) martijn@desktop:~/.../share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Left 4 Dead 2$ ls
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> bin         hl2        left4dead2       left4dead2_dlc3  platform
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> argh!
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> config      hl2_linux  left4dead2_dlc1  left4dead2.exe   steam_appid.txt
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> meant to paste the pastebin link
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6024809/
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> stupid chromeos
[12:08] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: just wonering if the  'Left For Dead 2' dir has a 'leftfordead2' dir in it
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: see the paste
[12:14] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: thanks - it's identical
[12:17] <SuperEngineer> p.s. next time I find a tent with abath attached... I'll let you know  ;)
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> almost halfway already
[12:47] <SuperEngineer> ..and still no rain
[12:47] <MartijnVdS> :( they predicted 16mm a few days ago
[12:47] <SuperEngineer> yup
[12:48] <SuperEngineer> [methinks the 2 Brits wanted the rain]
[12:48] <SuperEngineer> ...rain meisters both
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> Good at driving on twisty roads while it's raining? They must be Brits ;)
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> where else do you get the practice
[12:53] <SuperEngineer> ..they all learnt to drive with 1 hand on steering wheel & 1 hand carrying an umbrella
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: on B roads in Cornwall?
[12:55] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: lol
[12:58] <SuperEngineer> and that coming together is what is technically called a "whoopsie" ;)
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[12:58] <SuperEngineer> *is <-> technically  [v. bad grammar - slaps own wrist]
[13:05]  * mgdm thinks your corrected version sounds wrong
[13:08] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: "is what is"??!!  that's good?  nah! next you'll be telling me you "finks ya corrected version sounds wrong, know what I mean"
[13:10] <mgdm> I'm from nearly as far away as you can be from Essex while staying in the UK, and think that accent sounds like chewing tinfoil, so no :-)
[13:10] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: gawd bless ya cotton socks mate
[13:11] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[13:11]  * mgdm wonders what accent that's meant to be :)
[13:11] <SuperEngineer> cockerney
[13:11] <mgdm> ah! hehe
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> not Somersetese? ;)
[13:14] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: nope - that would be "bless yeer cotton socks madear" ;
[13:16] <SuperEngineer> [or - "no, officer, honestly... I found the venison - it just dropped dead front in of I"  ;)
[13:20] <SuperEngineer> why doesn't the helicopter cutting the corners & going "off track" get a stop/go penalty!
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> only a few more laps!
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: those helicopters (2!) are scary to watch
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: those pilots must be insane
[13:21] <mgdm> SuperEngineer: last time they had a car with a big fan on, it got banned
[13:22] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yup - best view & best fun on the circuit
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> "What's your job?" "Oh, I fly around F1 circuits in a helicopter, just above the tree tops"
[13:23] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: that was 1 of the helos!  it was running low on fuel ;)
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> he must be a hit at parties ;)
[13:23] <mgdm> Yeah, the Tyrell Apache
[13:24] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: "Oh, I try to fly around F1 circuits in a helicopter, just above the tree tops- whoops!!!!"
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: it was the hellfire missiles that made them ban it, not the fan.
[13:24]  * brobostigon puts ch4 on, 
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> but.. only 1 more lap of f1!
[13:25]  * brobostigon waits.
[13:25] <shauno> I bet the secret is they're just trying to troll the cameraman
[13:25] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: had 2 Apaches land for fuel at local airport last week... "anyone want to pick an argunment" was the most common phrase
[13:26] <mgdm> hehe
[13:26] <mgdm> a Navy Sea King appeared from behind the building beside my flat last night
[13:26] <mgdm> that was surprising
[13:26] <mgdm> silence to WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP
[13:26] <shauno> they're not known for being sneaky
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> the whomping willow!
[13:27] <SuperEngineer> followed by Sea King pilot going "hey, who nicked the sea?!"
[13:28] <SuperEngineer> Has Hamilton changed his name to Vettel?
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: only on weekends
[13:28] <SuperEngineer> lol
[13:28] <shauno> we used to get sea kings flying low quite often because we were far too close to the helipad at the local hospital  (south lakes, so coastguard+mountain rescue double-whammy).  we used to joke that we shouldn't have made the extension a flat roof :/
[13:29] <mgdm> hehe
[13:29] <mgdm> the Clyde Heliport is nearby
[13:29] <mgdm> though not where I saw the Sea King
[13:29]  * brobostigon now stwitches to ch4.
[13:29] <SuperEngineer> other interesting facts re local airport... 2 crashes in as many days!
[13:29] <mgdm> o_O
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: con-TROLL-ing
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: (from the con-troll tower)
[13:30] <SuperEngineer> oh - now there's a nice thought - conning trolls... mmmm
[13:31] <SuperEngineer> patent trollls & bullies doubly so
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's the reverse of the "419 baiter"
[13:32] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: channel4? what, miss the Suzi Perry/Eddie Jordon comedy hour?
[13:33] <mgdm> SuperEngineer: I'm not on ch4, that's brobostigon
[13:33] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: 419 baiter? [/me looks up phrase]
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> Star Trek IV: Free Willy?
[13:33] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: forgiven ;)
[13:33] <brobostigon> i think i would rather watch one of the best star treks films, to be honest.
[13:34] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: voyage home, :)
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the one with the whales, right?
[13:34] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep.
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: hence "Free Willy"
[13:34] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i understood the joke, it was funny, :)
[13:34] <SuperEngineer> ...but there was only 1 whale - poor sod
[13:34] <mgdm> there were 2
[13:35] <brobostigon> yep, there were two.
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Close Encounters (of the 3rd kind) on Five later on
[13:35] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: also cool :)
[13:35] <SuperEngineer> ... there was 1 - then 2 - then 4 - then 16..... :D
[13:36] <shauno> (±petunias)
[13:36] <brobostigon> HHGTTG
[13:37] <brobostigon> magrathea.
[13:37] <brobostigon> above magrathea.*
[13:37] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ah... *now* I understand 419 baiter
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's trolling conners, instead of conning trolls :)
[13:38] <SuperEngineer> yup
[13:40] <shauno> I remember reading something that advocated spam filters should be trying to do that automatically
[13:41] <SuperEngineer> brobostigon: Douglas A - RIP
[13:41] <brobostigon> SuperEngineer: yes. huge shame, before his time.
[13:41] <SuperEngineer> [I wonder what that thing approaching.... ;)
[13:42] <shauno> the logic was that most of these 'nigerian princes' are meant to be absurdly obvious, because it results in a very narrow, gullible, self-selecting response rate
[13:42] <SuperEngineer> life.. don't talk to about about life... here I am, brain the size of a planet..." - use that whwn a customer really bores me
[13:43] <SuperEngineer> ...thgey usually go quiet afer that
[13:43] <shauno> and that having spam filters try to start conversations with the spammers would completely destroy the effort:result ratio at the spammer's end
[13:44] <SuperEngineer> ...F1 is a woinderful thing - takes one's mind off current computer "problem" [non-problem as it turns out]
[13:45]  * SuperEngineer is embarrassed
[13:45] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: thanks for the help & suggestions re Steam disk loss - it is solved
[13:46] <brobostigon> large bag of crisps, beer and a good film, what more can you ask for, :)
[13:46] <SuperEngineer> brobostigon: a yacht, a helicopter, a fast car...
[13:47] <SuperEngineer> ...and Eddie Jordan
[13:47] <brobostigon> SuperEngineer: those are all too expensive.
[13:47] <SuperEngineer> brobostigon: dunno - never - bought an Eddie Jordan!
[13:48] <brobostigon> SuperEngineer: i was indirectly referring to the cost of sky tv.
[13:48] <SuperEngineer> lol
[13:48]  * penguin42 wonders if there is any way of delaying the start of a program in session startup
[13:49] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: don't start it in auto - start manual?  serious
[13:51] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: I'm looking at a bootchart of my dads machine; one of the things thrashing the disk during login is update-notifier/apt - which I do want to autostart, but it could do with sitting back and taking it gently while the user logs in and gets on with their life
[13:53] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: agreed
[13:54] <penguin42> I flipped his machine to cfq (from deadline) and it does seem to have taken a few seconds off startup, but there are some dumb things I can see in the bootchart
[13:58] <SuperEngineer> that reminds me - think it might be time to say bbs - own startup has been slowing recently - just installed bootchart [again]
[13:59] <SuperEngineer> ...& MartijnVdS thanks for your help earlier
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> np :)
[15:01]  * mgdm is watching Star Trek IV: Where'd the Whales Go? on +1
[15:01] <mgdm> I do have it on blu ray, somewhere
[15:01]  * penguin42 offers his mouse to mgdm
[15:04] <AlanBell> o/ daubers
[15:05] <MartijnVdS> A wild daubers appears?
[15:06] <mgdm> penguin42: a mouse? :)
[15:09] <penguin42> mgdm: Computer!
[15:10] <mgdm> my computer doesn't have an optical drive
[15:10] <mgdm> and I don't know of any online services that have the film
[15:10] <mgdm> and it's on telly right now :)
[15:21] <penguin42> mgdm: Just remember what I've said while you're watching it
[15:22] <mgdm> penguin42: OOOOH
[15:22] <mgdm> penguin42: I fail :(
[15:22] <mgdm> sorry :(
[16:01] <penguin42> hehe
[16:26] <mgdm> wubwubwubwubwubwubwubwub
[16:49] <Myrtti> WHY am I watching Premier League from telly? Boggle.
[16:50] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: yes.. WHY
[16:55]  * DJones sends the men in white coats to collect Myrtti 
[17:03] <Myrtti> what
[17:03] <Myrtti> another game straight after the first one?
[17:03] <Myrtti> this is too much
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you're obviously ill
[17:04]  * Myrtti finally bothers to get the remote and turn the channel over
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> one of those days eh
[17:16] <mjayk> anybody here to to a LUG in the nw of the Uk?
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> North-west of the UK, or north-west of just England? :)
[17:17] <mjayk> ah :) England
[17:17] <mjayk> yea i didnt say what i ment
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> there's Manlug, ask penguin42 about that
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> also http://lug.org.uk/lugs/north-west
[17:18] <mjayk> i presume thats manchester
[17:18] <mjayk> cheers
[17:28] <penguin42> oh, sorry I was making dinner
[17:32] <brobostigon> i am making a chilli for my gf tmrw evening, wish me luck.
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can do it :)
[17:34] <brobostigon> i know i can, :). i have made ones for myself many times.
[18:50] <daubers> AlanBell: o/ Still around?
[18:56] <AlanBell> yes
[18:58] <daubers> AlanBell: Is your's and the opensourcerers company an LLP? Or is it something else?
[19:00] <AlanBell> it is a limited company
[19:00] <AlanBell> llp is for accountants and soliciters
[19:00] <daubers> Ah, fair enough :)
[19:01] <brobostigon> limited liability
[19:01] <daubers> I've been offered a share in an LLP, so I'm trying to find someone unrelated to it that runs one so I can get some insight into it
[19:01] <AlanBell> hmm, interesting
[19:02] <AlanBell> it doesn't have shares, that makes no sense
[19:02] <mgdm> I came across an LLP that was an estate agents in a previous line of work, never heard of it for anything that wasn't in that sort of area
[19:02] <AlanBell> you would have to be a partner, not a shareholder
[19:02] <daubers> AlanBell: No, "share" is the wrong technical term. I would be a partner with a certain %age stake
[19:03] <AlanBell> yup, that makes sense :O
[19:03] <daubers> Sorry, business terminology still makes me confused
[19:04] <daubers> (Still seems like a "share" to me, but I admit it's not "technically" correct)
[19:09] <AlanBell> you probably need to talk to someone who knows a bit more about it than me :)
[19:09] <AlanBell> I would be a bit wary about being a partner if you are not actually going to be a partner
[19:10] <daubers> AlanBell: I would be a partner, I'd also be running it day to day
[19:10] <AlanBell> in that case, it sounds appropriate
[19:11] <daubers> Yeah. Might be a trip to the library for a day coming up
[19:49] <mungbean> i'm new to wheely bins. anyone else get massive maggot infestation in this weather?
[20:31] <popey> evening all
[20:32] <popey> mungbean: not here
[20:33] <mungbean> there are nappies in the bin:S
[20:33] <mungbean> might not help
[20:35] <popey> are they inside nappy bags?
[20:35] <mungbean> yes
[20:36] <mungbean> still. the bin gets opened quite a bit i guess
[20:36] <mungbean> there were 3 flies on it the other day
[20:36] <mungbean> bin opened...flies in = party
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> stop hiding the bodies in those bins?
[20:36] <mungbean> especially when bin men come and scuzz gets on the lid
[20:37] <mungbean> my sister got a new laptop. 2 days later i'm cleaning off malware
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> we have wheely bin cleaners here.. who come after the bin men and powerwash the inside
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: yay windows
[20:37] <mungbean> already had MSSE installed but meh
[20:37] <popey> yeah, we have those here
[20:38] <mungbean> unsure if it came from an installer or  not as her husband had run system restore pt already
[20:38] <popey> we have never had ours cleaned in ~12 years of living here
[20:38] <mungbean> although malware remained
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> heh.. the Dutch Dell XPS-13 "Ubuntu edition" page:
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> UBUNTU: De beste prestaties met Windows 8 Pro
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> ("Ubuntu: The best performance with Windows 8 Pro")
[20:39] <popey> *sigh*
[20:39] <AlanBell> Dell does it again
[20:39] <mungbean> my bruv got good deal on a laptop though. 207£
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> will there be a Haswell version eventually?
[20:40] <popey> they tend to rev their hardware in autumn
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> popey: which is now-ish :)
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> or soon-ish anyway
[20:40] <popey> but I suspect if sputnik is deemed "popular" inside Dell, they yeah
[20:40] <popey> the ultrabook will get an update anyway, whether the sputnik build does or not.. who knows
[20:41] <mungbean> there are laptops with a celeron 1.1ghz processor :|
[20:41] <mungbean> called celron 847
[20:41] <mungbean> seems to work ok for average joe
[20:43] <shauno> it shouldn't be that bad.  it's a santa rosa dualcore.  probably plenty for mum-class laptops
[20:43] <shauno> are, sandy bridge rather
[20:44] <AlanBell> sputnik won't be deemed popular because they keep it in a locked filcabinet at the bottom of some broken stairs behind a web page that says beware of the leopard and Dell recommends windows 8
[20:45] <mungbean> shauno: yeah, seems ok, except for the win8
[20:45] <mungbean> they couldn't find anything, average users are so lost on it
[20:47] <popey> AlanBell: not what i hear
[20:47] <popey> internally it's got some praise
[20:52] <Myrtti> I think I'll get the sputnik if everything works out
[20:52] <AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/2xmzkx9vBg5
[20:53] <AlanBell> it is ridiculous how badly they describe it after so much time
[20:57] <penguin42> AlanBell: Haha!
[20:57] <popey> I notice AlanBell doesn't file bugs or contact people anymore, but just rants on G+
[20:58] <Azelphur> isn't that how everything gets fixed
[20:58]  * Azelphur runs
[21:04] <AlanBell> better place for screenshots than IRC
[21:04] <AlanBell> and I do file bugs
[21:05] <AlanBell> I don't know where to file a bug about Dell's website though :)
[21:05] <AlanBell> I don't encounter so many bugs with 13.10, but I did file some when I tried xmir
[21:06] <popey> \o/ ship it
[21:06] <AlanBell> yeah, everyone should run 13.10 it rocks
[21:07] <AlanBell> xmir might be a bit early to run though, and I don't really know what the benefit of it is
[21:38] <ali1234> well the thing about dell selling ubuntu laptops is...
[21:38] <ali1234> nobody is going to be mislead by the website
[21:38] <ali1234> except maybe a few people who buy ubuntu by mistake
[21:39] <ali1234> because they think it has windows, because the website says it does
[21:40] <ali1234> literally no one is going to go to the dell website and see "oh, laptops with ubuntu. i've never heard of that, so i'll spend $1200 on a laptop with an OS i know nothing about"
[21:41] <AlanBell> true, which is probably one reason vendors are reluctant to sell Ubuntu laptops for less than the windows equivalent
[21:42] <ali1234> there's no reason to even sell cmputers with ubuntu pre installed
[21:43] <ali1234> you'll get exactly the same number of extra sales by selling them with no operating system
[21:43] <AlanBell> yeah, we bought a novatech for that reason
[21:44] <popey> depends on the region
[21:44] <mgdm> blimey, gitlab really does look awfully like it was 'inspired by' Github
[21:44] <popey> heh
[21:44] <popey> i do enjoy gitlab
[21:44] <AlanBell> it is a much easier thing to ask manufacturers to do, ship things without operating system
[21:44] <AlanBell> or list the operating system as a separately priced option
[21:46] <AlanBell> that Dell thing is shipping with "Ubuntu Edition version 12.04" first thing I would do is reinstall it with 13.10 and maybe add back the Dell tweaks
[21:47] <AlanBell> shipping it blank would be just fine
[21:53] <popey> laura has one and is using 12.04 on it
[21:53] <popey> i know a few others who wiped and put 13.10 on it
[21:53] <popey> sorry, 13.04
[22:03] <penguin42> AlanBell: Dell will generally ship you any of their machines with FreeDOS on if you're a business customer (or would a few years back)
[22:05] <penguin42> actually to be fair I never did try with laptops, but desktops and servers I did
[22:09] <AlanBell> they wouldn't sell to me in a reasonable timescale last time I tried, so I went elsewhere and got a Samsung
[22:10] <AlanBell> that was some years ago, I will try again next time I am in a laptop purchasing mood
[22:22] <penguin42> AlanBell: Nod; but certainly must go through the business side - no chance with the customer people
[22:23]  * bigcalm wanders in after a great weekend at his parents'
[22:24] <AlanBell> penguin42: yeah, I did that, there was a whole comedy of purchase orders and proforma invoices and quotes and a 6 week lead time for something more expensive than the windows version
[22:25] <AlanBell> or I could get the windows version for less money shipping next day. So I got a Samsung instead.
[22:26] <AlanBell> timescale was a bigger deal than the price, but when it came to the fact I couldn't get a linux laptop within a week or so I just picked a good price/performance combination and that wasn't Dell
[22:32] <penguin42> AlanBell: OK interesting, the desktops/servers they had nailed - we could normally get them within 2 or 3 days
[22:46] <AlanBell> yeah, probably helps if you are an existing customer with a standard order
[22:50] <penguin42> I used to buy a fair amount of stuff from them, but normally different; they could put arbitrary servers/cpu/ram/disk combinations together very quickly - but not done it for ~6 years