[06:15] <Myrtti> morn
[06:47] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:05] <dwatkins> o/ wotcher
[07:33] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[07:37] <brobostigon> is it possible to create a wifi hotspot on my phone, that is undetectable on the mobile network side of the system?
[08:11] <MartijnVdS> I think the only thing they can use to detect it is the user-agent of the browser?
[08:12] <MartijnVdS> which is not allowed in .nl (yay net neutrality rules)
[08:12] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I put a Vodafone payg sim in a "mifi"-like device (which is basically the same) and it's still working fine
[08:13] <brobostigon> so for example. they cant detect from where the packets have came from, ie not the phone itself, ?
[08:14] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: only by looking inside the packets -- maybe MTU, and certainly HTTP User-Agent
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> also, the amount of data use over time is different for phones vs pcs
[08:15] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: well you work for a telephone company, you should probably know. so if i tether my tablet, it will still show as normal android, that wouldnt make any difference.
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I work for an internet company, the mobile network isn't "ours"
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> All we do is "You've used >4GB; down to 64kbps with you!"
[08:15] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, ok sorry.
[08:16] <brobostigon> ouchie.
[08:17] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and like I said, Dutch ISPs (including mobile internet) aren't allowed to allow/disallow traffic, or even QoS it without good (i.e. acute congestion) reasons
[08:17] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting, i dont know what the situation is here to be honest.
[08:18] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: with the dirt filter proposals, probably much worse :(
[08:18] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh dear :(
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> The only people trying that idea here are from the strict christian party
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> i.e. nuts
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> ("God didn't want us to watch porn" "Don't watch it then" "But it tempts us.")
[08:20] <brobostigon> like the right wing american side of it, who are also very strict christians.
[08:20] <brobostigon> lol.
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: look up the Dutch Reformed church
[08:21] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: sounds dodgy from the name already.
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformed_Political_Party
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: their website blanks out on Sundays
[08:22] <brobostigon> lol.
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt_(Netherlands)
[08:26] <brobostigon> sounds like the one in america, just not as bad, where i am a humanist would probably be lynched.
[08:26] <brobostigon> i as a *
[08:29] <Myrtti> I'm waiting for an English writeup on the decision the High Court of Finland made today about child porn censorship and freedom of speech
[08:37] <Myrtti> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsiporno.info
[08:40] <dwatkins> so, another failure of a government to implement a ban on things that should be banned whilst allowing people to see things they have every right to see?
[08:42] <Myrtti> something like that
[08:43] <Myrtti> in essence the decision is that blocking is ok, and censorship is ok too, and sucks to be you, shush.
[08:43] <Myrtti> they might go and appeal to the European Human Rights court
[08:44] <brobostigon> like cameron's new impossible to implement pet project.
[08:44] <dwatkins> brobostigon: exactly what I was thinking
[08:45] <brobostigon> dwatkins: it seems either of two possiblities, either he hasnt taken advice and has no clue on the subject, or just has plain no clue.
[08:45] <brobostigon> or he did get advice, and choose to ignore it.
[08:46] <Myrtti> I vote for the latter
[08:46] <brobostigon> agreed.
[08:46] <Myrtti> because WHY WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN
[08:46] <dwatkins> brobostigon: the fact he made people go in and destroy the Guardian's hard drives demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of how computers and networks work.
[08:46] <dwatkins> so perhaps both
[08:47] <dwatkins> Seeing as he's the person in charge, he probably has easy access to people who do understand, but chooses (out of ignorance, perhaps) to ignore them.
[08:47] <brobostigon> Myrtti: as MartijnVdS said earlier, such things get said in the biblebelt in the us, like he said does in the netherlands.
[08:48] <Myrtti> I doubt he as a politician made the direct order to have someone distroy the harddrives
[08:48] <brobostigon> dwatkins: or he is just plain dim?
[08:48] <Myrtti> just waved his hand in exasperation and said "Why can't anyone make them to shut up"
[08:48] <Myrtti> and someone took the initiative
[08:49] <dwatkins> brobostigon: I think all of this demonstrates that, at least in terms of his understanding of technology, you are right
[08:49] <Myrtti> he as a politician is probably well aware of the implications of him ordering someone to do it
[08:49] <Myrtti> so they've got someone else who is not elected to their position to blame if things go totally pearshaped
[08:50] <brobostigon> dwatkins: agreed yes, it reminds me of several jokes recently in private eye that demonstrate it very well.
[08:50] <brobostigon> a civil servant probably, yes.
[08:51] <Myrtti> I've seen this movie so many times played out in the parliaments of different countries, I know Cameron isn't going to get and hasn't gotten any kind of blame for it
[08:52] <popey> Morning
[08:53] <dwatkins> Myrtti: sadly, yes - it just demonstrates that most of the people who make the decisions fail to understand technology
[08:55] <Myrtti> and to be honest, I'm not even sure that in this particular case Cameron is to be blamed in any way - I'm not convinced the politicians in the end had anything to do with it. In the end - atleast in Finland - most of the executive civil servants stay in their jobs no matter who's elected politically
[08:56] <popey> bigcalm: hows the flashing going?
[08:57] <Myrtti> it's either politicians silent agreement on letting civil servants do their job, ignorance on what are their jobs, or in the other end of the spectrum making clear statements on what they're not allowed to due because freedom of speech etc.
[08:57] <Myrtti> and making policies on which law outruns the other
[08:57] <Myrtti> sorry, getting ranty
[08:58] <dwatkins> Myrtti: I assume there are people lobbying to make laws like the one about banning certain websites in the UK, they probably don't understand the technology is prone to failure
[08:59] <Myrtti> yeah, Pirate Bay is blocked by some ISP's in both Finland and UK, and bypassing it is so simple even a 5yo can do it
[08:59] <popey> hasstephenelopbeenfiredyet.com
[09:14]  * popey tickles bigcalm 
[09:20] <bigcalm> Good morning peep :)
[09:26] <popey> :D
[09:27] <bigcalm> +s
[09:27] <bigcalm> Terribly lax of me
[09:27] <bigcalm> My attention is elsewhere right now
[09:31] <popey> outrage
[09:31] <bigcalm> :P
[09:39] <bigcalm> phablet-flash cdimage-touch -b
[09:39]  * bigcalm goes for breakfast
[09:46] <popey> bigcalm: be brave, get the latest image with "phablet-flash cdimage-touch -b --pending" :D
[09:51] <bigcalm> Too late
[09:52] <popey> heh
[09:52] <popey> the --pending image hasn't been fully tested, so best not to really
[09:54] <bigcalm> This is going to take a lot of getting used to
[09:54] <bigcalm> Keyboard has appeared and I'm not sure how to get rid of it
[09:55] <bigcalm> Ah, swipe down
 Wow, the phone lags horribly with 2 apps running
 Can I close apps?
[10:04] <bigcalm> None of the UI is intuitive :(
[10:05]  * dwatkins felt this way about Unity :-/
[10:05] <bigcalm> But then, neither is iOS. To me at least
[10:05] <dwatkins> does Ubuntu phone have a home button?
[10:06] <popey> it doesn't rely on hardware buttons
[10:06] <bigcalm> No. swipe the left hand edge to get the launcher and tap the ubuntu logo to get the "home"
[10:06] <popey> bigcalm: patience
[10:06] <dwatkins> how many buttons does it expect there to be? This will define what an Ubuntu phone is, like the way an iPhone has one, and most Android phones have 4 on screen, or in hardware with older models.
[10:06] <bigcalm> popey: lacking :)
[10:06] <popey> dwatkins: none
[10:07] <dwatkins> popey: how many are there normally?
[10:07] <popey> dwatkins: volume and power, that's all
[10:07] <popey> we expect none
[10:07] <popey> dunno how else to say it
[10:07] <dwatkins> I mean on screen, like with recent Android
[10:07] <popey>  figlet none
[10:07] <popey> ☻
[10:07] <dwatkins> hehe, fair enough
[10:08] <popey> swipe from left to pull in launcher, pull fully in from left to go to "home"
[10:08] <popey> pull from right to switch running applications
[10:08] <popey> pull from bottom to reveal toolbar
[10:08] <popey> pull from top to reveal indicators
[10:08] <popey> that's it, there are four edges you can swipe from, and that's it
[10:09] <popey> bigcalm: sometimes there's a runaway process which causes lag, not multiple apps
[10:09]  * mgdm invents an octagonal tablet to have more edges
[10:09] <popey> heh
[10:09] <popey> bigcalm: adb shell, run top. see what's eating cpu
[10:09] <popey> my money is on ueventd
[10:09] <bigcalm> popey: okay, ta
[10:10] <bigcalm> mgdm: I'm surprised that BSG didn't have those
[10:10] <mgdm> heh
[10:31]  * bigcalm shakes fist at weird lack of booting
[10:32] <bigcalm> Had to go in via the boot loader screen
[15:11] <SuperEngineer> Doctor Who at the Proms time folks
[15:11] <daftykins> yaaaawn
[15:13] <SuperEngineer> :( boohiss2u
[15:14] <dwatkins> SuperEngineer: which one?
[15:14]  * bigcalm has returned!
[15:16] <dwatkins> SuperEngineer: this one's great - "What happened to your hair?!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON5uV83k6wE
[15:18] <SuperEngineer> nope
[16:24] <DJones> Damm, watching Doctor Who at the Proms, why do I want to see a line of Cybermen doing Riverdance
[16:32] <penguin42> DJones: That's what would have happened if the Cyberman had taken over Ireland
[16:54] <moreati> I sense an unscraped barrel here, how about daleks on ice?
[16:56] <DJones> Daleks can fly so I don't think that would work too well, maybe paint them red and have the Red Dalek Arrows
[16:56] <zleap> lol
[16:57] <DJones> Maybe not something for the tv series, but could be quite funny for Comic Relief
[16:59] <zleap> suggest it
[16:59] <zleap> i am sure they are up for ideas
[17:00] <DJones> Was just looking to see if they had a contact email address
[17:02] <popey> i went to the BFI on Saturday to see two episodes of Dr Who
[17:02] <popey> and there was a panel discussion about 9th doctor.
[17:03] <popey> was fun
[17:08] <SuperEngineer> My Christmas gift wish.. Dr. Who lands in an episode of Big Bang Theory ;)
[22:03] <ali1234> Azelphur: http://hackaday.com/2013/03/18/hack-removes-firmware-crippling-from-nvidia-graphics-card/
[22:03] <ali1234> isn't that the problem you had?
[22:06] <Azelphur> ali1234: yup
[22:06] <ali1234> specifically he turned a GTX690 into a quadro card to make triple monitor work
[22:07] <Azelphur> nvidia = assholes, tl;dr
[22:07] <ali1234> well, get your soldering iron out
[22:07] <Azelphur> I unfortunately do not have a 690
[22:07] <Azelphur> I'm probably going to the greener AMD pastures for everything, fed up with Intel and nvidia firmware crippling.
[22:08] <ali1234> yeah but with AMD you just have to suffer constant driver bugs instead
[22:08] <Azelphur> yea, I'm hoping the situation is usable now
[22:09] <ali1234> do you still have all those 5870 cards?
[22:09] <Azelphur> nope
[22:10] <ali1234> what are they equivalent to, in terms of gaming? any idea?
[22:12] <Azelphur> ali1234: not too sure, probably an older nvidia card like a 4 series
[22:12]  * Azelphur shrugs
[22:12] <ali1234> but a good one though?
[22:12] <ali1234> like 480?
[22:12] <Azelphur> think so, probably best to look up the benchmarks
[22:40]  * AlanBell is runing xmir again
[22:40] <daftykins> it lives?
[22:41] <AlanBell> seems to work, not tried dual screen yet, will do tomorrow
[22:41] <AlanBell> apparently it basically functions with dual screen which is very impressive
[22:42] <AlanBell> heh, the input always on thing is *nasty*
[22:42] <AlanBell> switch to a vtty and stuff you type there is also typed in X
[22:44] <AlanBell> suspend and resume works
[22:45] <daftykins> ;/
[23:07] <penguin42> AlanBell: How about something like x11vnc or anything else that shares the screen ?