| square-r00t | LPI is a joke, btw | 02:14 |
|---|---|---|
| square-r00t | unless you're trying to apply for a company that specifically mentions it, it's not worth it :P | 02:14 |
| rmg51 | Morning | 10:04 |
| JonathanD | Morning. | 10:06 |
| === scottrigby_away is now known as scottrigby | ||
| === scottrigby is now known as scottrigby_away | ||
| ChinnoDog | Morning | 12:07 |
| teddy-dbear | Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys and everything else | 12:13 |
| === scottrigby_away is now known as scottrigby | ||
| === scottrigby is now known as scottrigby_away | ||
| * ChinnoDog sips some tea | 12:57 | |
| === scottrigby_away is now known as scottrigby | ||
| === scottrigby is now known as scottrigby_away | ||
| * InHisName mumbles "Morning" once again | 15:16 | |
| * square-r00t drinks pint of whiskey | 15:31 | |
| square-r00t | ungh. | 15:31 |
| square-r00t | so it is. | 15:31 |
| === scottrigby_away is now known as scottrigby | ||
| === scottrigby is now known as scottrigby_away | ||
| === jedijf is now known as jenny_867 | ||
| === jenny_867 is now known as jedijf | ||
| === scottrigby_away is now known as scottrigby | ||
| wyattderp | Anyone in here know how to make a VM copy of an OS so if I wanted to make a standard development environment I could load it into a flashdrive and call it a day after installing? | 18:07 |
| jedijf | make it - copy the folder with vmdk's (or whatever) to usb - use that usb anywhere | 18:23 |
| jedijf | it will ask - did you move or copy - if not sure choose x - choose x | 18:23 |
| MutantTurkey | wyattderp: waddu | 18:46 |
| wyattderp | Ahh alright, its just things are getting kinda heavy with the business I would like to keep a dev environment on hand for reloading if need be. | 18:47 |
| jedijf | you could make it - snapshot it - and revert when necessary too | 18:49 |
| jedijf | but having a clean somewhere (usb etc) is always good | 18:49 |
| MutantTurkey | god damn i hate suse | 19:48 |
| MutantTurkey | i upgrade packages and everything goes to hell | 19:48 |
| MutantTurkey | i mean now i need to hard reboot my servers, which my users were using | 19:48 |
| MutantTurkey | all because i needed to upgrade python | 19:48 |
| waltman | step 1: don't upgrade packages in the middle of the day when users are using them? | 20:01 |
| square-r00t | +1 | 20:15 |
| MutantTurkey | step 1: don't use opensuse | 20:16 |
| MutantTurkey | step 2: don't wait 2 years to upgrade packages then complain when it's out of date | 20:16 |
| jthan | Stop blaming suse for your problems :-p | 20:16 |
| MutantTurkey | step 3: allow your only computer science person to install a sensible distribution | 20:16 |
| MutantTurkey | step 4: don't work on weekends or at night, since you value your own time. If your boss wants an upgrade, tell them you fcan only do it during the day 9-5 | 20:17 |
| ProfessorKaos64 | Only OpenSuSe is used by the enterprise enough | 20:17 |
| MutantTurkey | jthan: but sure, sacrifice your free time to do upgrades... | 20:26 |
| MutantTurkey | you too waltman | 20:27 |
| jthan | I do upgrades all the time. | 20:57 |
| jthan | screen emerge -uDNva world | 20:57 |
| * jthan falls asleep | 20:57 | |
| jthan | Wake up, done. | 20:57 |
| MutantTurkey | wonderful! | 20:57 |
| MutantTurkey | :q | 21:00 |
| square-r00t | ProfessorKaos64: not sure if trolling or not. | 21:12 |
| square-r00t | MutantTurkey: part of being an admin is you work on off-hours for rollouts, period | 21:12 |
| MutantTurkey | no | 21:15 |
| MutantTurkey | i mean maybe for y'all. If I was a full time sys-admin maybe | 21:15 |
| square-r00t | that's how you get to be full-time | 21:16 |
| MutantTurkey | no this position will never be full time | 21:16 |
| MutantTurkey | sysadmin is really part of the greater job of helping the users with programming | 21:16 |
| square-r00t | that's.... | 21:18 |
| square-r00t | that's exactly part of the sysadm role. internal support. | 21:18 |
| MutantTurkey | ? | 21:19 |
| MutantTurkey | my job is programming, I happen to sys-admin on the side as a resault | 21:19 |
| square-r00t | but it doesn't matter if this position will be full time or not. you won't get hired as a sysadmin if you don't act like one. if you can put on your resume "Company X, Jr. SysAdmin, part-time, was on-call" instead of "Company X, Jr. SysAdmin, part-time" then that's a lot better | 21:19 |
| square-r00t | oh sweet papayas have mercy | 21:19 |
| MutantTurkey | "Company X, Programmer" | 21:20 |
| square-r00t | devs shouldn't have root, generally speaking, though. | 21:20 |
| MutantTurkey | lol | 21:20 |
| MutantTurkey | ok | 21:20 |
| square-r00t | that's.. really not a power thing or me saying y'all are stupid or something. you just don't think. | 21:20 |
| square-r00t | "what do you mean 'production' AND 'development' servers? they're the same thing, aren't they?" | 21:21 |
| square-r00t | "it wasn't working so i just chmod'd it to 777" | 21:21 |
| MutantTurkey | okay there's a difference between idiots and non-idiots | 21:21 |
| square-r00t | "sudo is stupid. i'm just going to keep a root shell open." | 21:21 |
| square-r00t | right, there is- but generally, admins are idiots when it comes to coding, and devs are idiots when it comes to admining | 21:22 |
| MutantTurkey | i aim to please both parties | 21:22 |
| square-r00t | i can count on one hand the people i've seen be competent- not even good, competent- at both. | 21:23 |
| square-r00t | you'll either mess one side up, or you'll get both sides pissed off | 21:24 |
| MutantTurkey | welcome to earth? | 21:24 |
| square-r00t | right, that's my point. the reality is you're either an admin or a dev. sliding scale, sure, but at some point it quantifies | 21:24 |
| MutantTurkey | yeah | 21:24 |
| MutantTurkey | I make decisions as a sysadmin to benefit my programming needs | 21:25 |
| square-r00t | which is a horrible sysadmin. | 21:25 |
| MutantTurkey | like running things more bleeding edge then need be to get features i want | 21:25 |
| MutantTurkey | why? we are all programmers who need cutting edge things, so... no point using red hat 1.0 | 21:25 |
| MutantTurkey | that's the only 'bad' thing i do | 21:25 |
| square-r00t | yeah. you should be backporting code to run on *stable and tested versions* of platforms. | 21:25 |
| MutantTurkey | no | 21:25 |
| square-r00t | i.e. SECURE. | 21:25 |
| MutantTurkey | I.E backporting hundred of thousands of lines of code? | 21:25 |
| square-r00t | yep. that's why you have a development and production server | 21:26 |
| MutantTurkey | we don't have that manpower, nor is security even a remote want for us | 21:26 |
| square-r00t | lol | 21:26 |
| square-r00t | "we don't want security"? | 21:26 |
| square-r00t | cool, let me get you my pubkey so you can add it to root's auth'd keys then | 21:26 |
| MutantTurkey | we want 'security until prevents us from getting what we want done" | 21:26 |
| square-r00t | which isn't security. | 21:26 |
| square-r00t | that's the *exact* mentality of the coder that 777's stuff because "it wasn't working" | 21:27 |
| MutantTurkey | i am not giving out our passwords, or allowing for SQL injections in php code we have, but I am also not spending all day backporting code | 21:27 |
| MutantTurkey | ok i really don't see how chmod 777 would ever solve any problem... | 21:27 |
| square-r00t | no, instead you're upgrading a ton of production machines in the middle of the day for untested software patches. | 21:27 |
| MutantTurkey | production machines? | 21:28 |
| square-r00t | 15:48:34 < MutantTurkey> i mean now i need to hard reboot my servers, which my users were using | 21:28 |
| square-r00t | = | 21:28 |
| square-r00t | production | 21:28 |
| MutantTurkey | i guess | 21:28 |
| MutantTurkey | it's just a node on our compute pool | 21:28 |
| MutantTurkey | the jobs are automatically re-routed | 21:28 |
| square-r00t | doesn't make my point any less valid, does it? | 21:28 |
| MutantTurkey | yeah it does | 21:29 |
| MutantTurkey | because it went offline seamelessly | 21:29 |
| square-r00t | so you let users know of this maintenance? | 21:29 |
| square-r00t | in advance? | 21:29 |
| MutantTurkey | yeah 20 minutes | 21:29 |
| MutantTurkey | :p | 21:29 |
| square-r00t | twenty minutes. | 21:29 |
| MutantTurkey | dude you don't understand the userbase here | 21:29 |
| MutantTurkey | i walked around the lab and said "ok everyone are we all good to drop this offline for a few minutes" | 21:30 |
| square-r00t | enlighten me. | 21:30 |
| MutantTurkey | got some nods | 21:30 |
| MutantTurkey | and that was that | 21:30 |
| square-r00t | that isn't notice of maintenance. | 21:30 |
| MutantTurkey | maybe not for you, but for us it's entirely fine | 21:30 |
| MutantTurkey | because my users can't do anything without these upgraded packages anyway | 21:30 |
| square-r00t | http://pastebin.com/zu9epey8 = maint notice | 21:33 |
| square-r00t | because just walking into a room and saying "HEY IS EVERYONE COOL IF I SHUT THIS OFF?" tells them nothing | 21:34 |
| MutantTurkey | why? | 21:34 |
| square-r00t | what happens to those that are in the zone? headphones on? | 21:34 |
| MutantTurkey | yes and what happens if they don't check their email? | 21:34 |
| square-r00t | you mentioned a few nods- how can you know, with a *written record* (CYA), that you told them? | 21:34 |
| square-r00t | that's their liability then. :) because now, you have *proof* you told them. | 21:35 |
| MutantTurkey | or do you get each person to swear an oath with their blood? | 21:35 |
| square-r00t | ^ see above. | 21:35 |
| MutantTurkey | that's true, and in a more formal sysadmin position i would aproach ithat that way | 21:35 |
| square-r00t | you work at a uni, right? | 21:35 |
| MutantTurkey | yeah | 21:35 |
| square-r00t | yeah. | 21:35 |
| square-r00t | also, unless it's an emergency, 24-48hrs in advance at least is the recommended maint notice time | 21:36 |
| square-r00t | software should never ever be upgraded willy-nilly | 21:37 |
| MutantTurkey | well it hadn't been upgraded since it was installed | 21:37 |
| square-r00t | doesn't matter | 21:37 |
| MutantTurkey | so yeah I'd like to start performing regular updates | 21:37 |
| square-r00t | not during production hours. | 21:37 |
| square-r00t | strict no-no | 21:37 |
| MutantTurkey | but 24-48 puts my user at least until wednesday to get any work done | 21:37 |
| square-r00t | .... | 21:37 |
| square-r00t | you don't leave a 24-48 window open | 21:37 |
| MutantTurkey | well if I give them 48 hours notice | 21:38 |
| square-r00t | you let them know 24-49 hours in advance | 21:38 |
| square-r00t | i'm saying you should have send the email friday at the latest. :P | 21:38 |
| MutantTurkey | user comes to me saying: can you install this package: I say : yes but wait 2 days? | 21:38 |
| MutantTurkey | he just asked me today! | 21:38 |
| square-r00t | no, you say "why?" | 21:38 |
| MutantTurkey | I know why | 21:38 |
| MutantTurkey | because scientific python tools are useful for him | 21:39 |
| MutantTurkey | and i want him to be able to use and discover as many as possible instead of saying no first and then yes later | 21:39 |
| square-r00t | and it was *absolutely* such an emergency that you had to bring a node down to do it today during production? | 21:39 |
| MutantTurkey | no it wasn't an emergency at all | 21:39 |
| === scottrigby is now known as scottrigby_away | ||
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