[02:14] LPI is a joke, btw [02:14] unless you're trying to apply for a company that specifically mentions it, it's not worth it :P [10:04] Morning [10:06] Morning. === scottrigby_away is now known as scottrigby === scottrigby is now known as scottrigby_away [12:07] Morning [12:13] Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys and everything else === scottrigby_away is now known as scottrigby === scottrigby is now known as scottrigby_away [12:57] * ChinnoDog sips some tea === scottrigby_away is now known as scottrigby === scottrigby is now known as scottrigby_away [15:16] * InHisName mumbles "Morning" once again [15:31] * square-r00t drinks pint of whiskey [15:31] ungh. [15:31] so it is. === scottrigby_away is now known as scottrigby === scottrigby is now known as scottrigby_away === jedijf is now known as jenny_867 === jenny_867 is now known as jedijf === scottrigby_away is now known as scottrigby [18:07] Anyone in here know how to make a VM copy of an OS so if I wanted to make a standard development environment I could load it into a flashdrive and call it a day after installing? [18:23] make it - copy the folder with vmdk's (or whatever) to usb - use that usb anywhere [18:23] it will ask - did you move or copy - if not sure choose x - choose x [18:46] wyattderp: waddu [18:47] Ahh alright, its just things are getting kinda heavy with the business I would like to keep a dev environment on hand for reloading if need be. [18:49] you could make it - snapshot it - and revert when necessary too [18:49] but having a clean somewhere (usb etc) is always good [19:48] god damn i hate suse [19:48] i upgrade packages and everything goes to hell [19:48] i mean now i need to hard reboot my servers, which my users were using [19:48] all because i needed to upgrade python [20:01] step 1: don't upgrade packages in the middle of the day when users are using them? [20:15] +1 [20:16] step 1: don't use opensuse [20:16] step 2: don't wait 2 years to upgrade packages then complain when it's out of date [20:16] Stop blaming suse for your problems :-p [20:16] step 3: allow your only computer science person to install a sensible distribution [20:17] step 4: don't work on weekends or at night, since you value your own time. If your boss wants an upgrade, tell them you fcan only do it during the day 9-5 [20:17] Only OpenSuSe is used by the enterprise enough [20:26] jthan: but sure, sacrifice your free time to do upgrades... [20:27] you too waltman [20:57] I do upgrades all the time. [20:57] screen emerge -uDNva world [20:57] * jthan falls asleep [20:57] Wake up, done. [20:57] wonderful! [21:00] :q [21:12] ProfessorKaos64: not sure if trolling or not. [21:12] MutantTurkey: part of being an admin is you work on off-hours for rollouts, period [21:15] no [21:15] i mean maybe for y'all. If I was a full time sys-admin maybe [21:16] that's how you get to be full-time [21:16] no this position will never be full time [21:16] sysadmin is really part of the greater job of helping the users with programming [21:18] that's.... [21:18] that's exactly part of the sysadm role. internal support. [21:19] ? [21:19] my job is programming, I happen to sys-admin on the side as a resault [21:19] but it doesn't matter if this position will be full time or not. you won't get hired as a sysadmin if you don't act like one. if you can put on your resume "Company X, Jr. SysAdmin, part-time, was on-call" instead of "Company X, Jr. SysAdmin, part-time" then that's a lot better [21:19] oh sweet papayas have mercy [21:20] "Company X, Programmer" [21:20] devs shouldn't have root, generally speaking, though. [21:20] lol [21:20] ok [21:20] that's.. really not a power thing or me saying y'all are stupid or something. you just don't think. [21:21] "what do you mean 'production' AND 'development' servers? they're the same thing, aren't they?" [21:21] "it wasn't working so i just chmod'd it to 777" [21:21] okay there's a difference between idiots and non-idiots [21:21] "sudo is stupid. i'm just going to keep a root shell open." [21:22] right, there is- but generally, admins are idiots when it comes to coding, and devs are idiots when it comes to admining [21:22] i aim to please both parties [21:23] i can count on one hand the people i've seen be competent- not even good, competent- at both. [21:24] you'll either mess one side up, or you'll get both sides pissed off [21:24] welcome to earth? [21:24] right, that's my point. the reality is you're either an admin or a dev. sliding scale, sure, but at some point it quantifies [21:24] yeah [21:25] I make decisions as a sysadmin to benefit my programming needs [21:25] which is a horrible sysadmin. [21:25] like running things more bleeding edge then need be to get features i want [21:25] why? we are all programmers who need cutting edge things, so... no point using red hat 1.0 [21:25] that's the only 'bad' thing i do [21:25] yeah. you should be backporting code to run on *stable and tested versions* of platforms. [21:25] no [21:25] i.e. SECURE. [21:25] I.E backporting hundred of thousands of lines of code? [21:26] yep. that's why you have a development and production server [21:26] we don't have that manpower, nor is security even a remote want for us [21:26] lol [21:26] "we don't want security"? [21:26] cool, let me get you my pubkey so you can add it to root's auth'd keys then [21:26] we want 'security until prevents us from getting what we want done" [21:26] which isn't security. [21:27] that's the *exact* mentality of the coder that 777's stuff because "it wasn't working" [21:27] i am not giving out our passwords, or allowing for SQL injections in php code we have, but I am also not spending all day backporting code [21:27] ok i really don't see how chmod 777 would ever solve any problem... [21:27] no, instead you're upgrading a ton of production machines in the middle of the day for untested software patches. [21:28] production machines? [21:28] 15:48:34 < MutantTurkey> i mean now i need to hard reboot my servers, which my users were using [21:28] = [21:28] production [21:28] i guess [21:28] it's just a node on our compute pool [21:28] the jobs are automatically re-routed [21:28] doesn't make my point any less valid, does it? [21:29] yeah it does [21:29] because it went offline seamelessly [21:29] so you let users know of this maintenance? [21:29] in advance? [21:29] yeah 20 minutes [21:29] :p [21:29] twenty minutes. [21:29] dude you don't understand the userbase here [21:30] i walked around the lab and said "ok everyone are we all good to drop this offline for a few minutes" [21:30] enlighten me. [21:30] got some nods [21:30] and that was that [21:30] that isn't notice of maintenance. [21:30] maybe not for you, but for us it's entirely fine [21:30] because my users can't do anything without these upgraded packages anyway [21:33] http://pastebin.com/zu9epey8 = maint notice [21:34] because just walking into a room and saying "HEY IS EVERYONE COOL IF I SHUT THIS OFF?" tells them nothing [21:34] why? [21:34] what happens to those that are in the zone? headphones on? [21:34] yes and what happens if they don't check their email? [21:34] you mentioned a few nods- how can you know, with a *written record* (CYA), that you told them? [21:35] that's their liability then. :) because now, you have *proof* you told them. [21:35] or do you get each person to swear an oath with their blood? [21:35] ^ see above. [21:35] that's true, and in a more formal sysadmin position i would aproach ithat that way [21:35] you work at a uni, right? [21:35] yeah [21:35] yeah. [21:36] also, unless it's an emergency, 24-48hrs in advance at least is the recommended maint notice time [21:37] software should never ever be upgraded willy-nilly [21:37] well it hadn't been upgraded since it was installed [21:37] doesn't matter [21:37] so yeah I'd like to start performing regular updates [21:37] not during production hours. [21:37] strict no-no [21:37] but 24-48 puts my user at least until wednesday to get any work done [21:37] .... [21:37] you don't leave a 24-48 window open [21:38] well if I give them 48 hours notice [21:38] you let them know 24-49 hours in advance [21:38] i'm saying you should have send the email friday at the latest. :P [21:38] user comes to me saying: can you install this package: I say : yes but wait 2 days? [21:38] he just asked me today! [21:38] no, you say "why?" [21:38] I know why [21:39] because scientific python tools are useful for him [21:39] and i want him to be able to use and discover as many as possible instead of saying no first and then yes later [21:39] and it was *absolutely* such an emergency that you had to bring a node down to do it today during production? [21:39] no it wasn't an emergency at all === scottrigby is now known as scottrigby_away