dolphin-manI'm here02:54
dolphin-manto appeal a ban02:54
Flannelhi dolphin-man.  Still around?04:43
dolphin-manHI Flannel04:43
Flanneldolphin-man: Hi.  What's the issue you'd like to resolve?04:44
dolphin-manOh,, it seems I have been banned for life from #ubuntu-offtopic04:45
Flanneldolphin-man: Is that so?  Who told you that?04:46
dolphin-manLjL-Alps and chu04:46
Flanneldolphin-man: They told you that you were banned for life?04:47
dolphin-manolphin-man> how long is my ban04:47
dolphin-man<chu> Permanent now.04:47
Flanneldolphin-man: Alright.  Well, bans are rarely permanent in #ubuntu channels.  So lets see where we stand with this one.04:51
Flanneldolphin-man: Can you save me the trouble of re-reading the backscroll and explain why you were banned?04:51
dolphin-manFlannel I'll show you, I wont paste a wall of text04:52
Flanneldolphin-man: I'd rather you tell me.04:52
dolphin-man<dolphin-man> chu, sounds subjective as fuck04:53
dolphin-man<phunyguy> !language | dolphin-man04:53
dolphin-man<ubottu> dolphin-man: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.04:53
dolphin-man<dolphin-man> !language | phunyguy04:53
dolphin-man<chu> dolphin-man: Please don't.04:53
dolphin-man* LjL-Alps sets ban on *!*@S0106602ad0756c1c.ok.shawcable.net04:53
dolphin-manthat's it04:53
dolphin-manI used the  !language function04:53
Flanneldolphin-man: So.... now, can you tell me why you were banned?04:53
dolphin-manFlannel, LjL said I was using the !language function to be annoying04:54
dolphin-manand when I pressed the issue they said that I had been given many chances before, so they decided to permaban me04:54
dolphin-manwhen I tried to ask chu what rule I broke04:54
dolphin-manhe just said said 'stupidity' and wouldn't elaborate04:55
Tm_Tdolphin-man: you don't notice in your paste that you're cursing?04:55
dolphin-manYes, I do04:55
dolphin-manThat's not the reason for the permaban.04:55
Flannelalright.  So, now I've heard from LjL and chu about why you were banned.  Can you tell me what you think you did that warranted a ban?04:56
dolphin-manI don't think what I did warranted a permaban. I used a curse word without thinking and I was warned by phunnyguy04:57
dolphin-manThat seemed more than adequate04:57
Flanneldolphin-man: And what made you think using the language factoid back was called for?04:58
FlannelAs far as I can tell, phynyguy hadn't used inappropriate language.04:59
dolphin-manphunnyguy has been repeatedly abusive to me in the past, and that was just my way of saying 'please be considerate'04:59
FlannelWhat was inconsiderate of his use of the factoid?  And why didn't you just say "Please be considerate"?  As far as I can tell, he was using that factoid appropriately.05:00
dolphin-manI didn't realize I had done broken any rule until I reviewed the log later, after I had been banned05:00
dolphin-manFreenode is the only irc network that has such draconian rules regarding language05:00
dolphin-manso I am in the habit of treating minor curse words as being appropriate, a  habit that i carried over here05:01
dolphin-manwithout thinking05:01
dolphin-manI had broken*05:01
Flanneldolphin-man: So, if I were going to rate curse words, "fuck" would be as far from minor as you get, and that's not just me, if you look at movie ratings and things.05:03
dolphin-manI guess if you are looking from the perspective of someone who is very uptight05:03
dolphin-manI just personally don't see it as a big deal, and I failed to pay attention to the standards of the channel05:04
Flanneldolphin-man: So, the way this usually works (and it did today as well) is you'll get a warning verbally, then a warning as a kick, and then a ban if you continue.05:04
FlannelYou started out saying "hi" over and over for no reason, were asked to stop, were kicked when you didn't stop, and then you went on to use profanity and *then* get indignant when you were reminded not to, which resulted in your ban.05:05
dolphin-manI didn't get indignant.05:05
dolphin-manI didn't have enough time to become indignant, I was almost immediately permabanned05:05
FlannelSo, your original evaluation was completely myopic, thinking that the reason you were banned was solely based on your factoid use.05:06
dolphin-manI was also not told why I was banned05:06
dolphin-manI mean05:06
FlannelNo, you got indignant when you replied to his warranted factoid with an unwarranted one.  I don't care that you weren't keeping the guidelines in mind, that's not an excuse, since you had previously assured the operators that you would follow them.05:06
dolphin-manWhat was wrong with my use of the factoid?05:07
Flanneldolphin-man: You were asked to stop, you didn't.  No real explanation is necessary.  If you can't make the connection there, I'm not sure you're cut out for IRC.05:07
dolphin-manIt was based on a misunderstanding, but it isnt worth a ban05:07
dolphin-manfor the rest of my life05:07
dolphin-manuntil the day I die05:07
dolphin-manthat seems gratuitous05:07
Flanneldolphin-man: No, none of those things individually are worth a ban.  However the sum of them together shows a pattern of troublemaking, which resulted in your ban.05:07
FlannelAnd, as I started out, bans are rarely "permanent" and this one is no different.05:08
dolphin-manwhy did chu say my ban was permanent05:08
FlannelI don't know, but I've told you a couple times now that it's not.  If you'd *like* it to be, that can be arranged.05:09
dolphin-manHow do I go about having the ban removed05:10
dolphin-manI'm very sorry for breaking the rules05:11
dolphin-manI just want to discuss ubuntu in a casual environment with other ubuntu users05:11
dolphin-manI use Ubuntu, CTCP VERSION me if you dont believe me05:11
chuTo be fair, I told you the ban was permanent, because having dealt with you once before, you had assured me you read the guidelines and understood the channel's policies. After you explicitly showed you had not done so, I couldn't be bothered having a reasoned discussion with you.05:11
Flanneldolphin-man: You come talk to the operators (that's us) in here.  Once we feel you've grown enough to not cause problems in a channel, we allow you to rejoin the channel.05:12
Flanneldolphin-man: The purpose of bans is to keep a channel a friendly, safe environment for people to participate.  It's not to keep you out of it.  Only to keep your behavior out of it.05:13
dolphin-manokay gotcha, thanks05:13
dolphin-manthat's okay, chu. I forgive you05:13
FlannelSo in order to get a ban removed, you need to show us that the behavior will not immediately repeat itself (which will, unfortunately, cause you to get banned again)05:13
dolphin-manHow do I show that?05:14
FlannelSometimes its through behavior in other channels, other times its through a discussion in here with us.  I think the latter is probably most appropriate for you.05:15
Flanneldolphin-man: So, what I'm going to do is ask you to read the code of conduct and the IRC guidelines once more, and then take a few days off to think and let them soak in.  Come back on, lets say three days from now (approximately 72 hours, at *least* 70).  And we can have a chat about your behavior today, how it'll be different in the future, etc.05:17
FlannelAnd, for the record, your behavior in -ot yesterday wasn't superb either.  You were almost removed a few times.05:17
dolphin-manthere was one time where a guy came in with technical problems, and I helped him solve them though05:18
dolphin-manI think it was a couple days ago05:18
FlannelI'm not guaranteeing you'll have the ban removed either, just so you're clear.  Just that we'll talk things over and see where we get.05:18
Flanneldolphin-man: Being a good citizen doesn't give you a free pass to be a poor one.05:19
dolphin-manthats fair05:19
Flanneldolphin-man: Do you have links to the code of conduct and IRC guidelines?  Or would you like me to provide them?05:19
dolphin-mani dont have them05:20
Flannelalright, here's the CoC: http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct and here's the IRC Guidelines: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines05:20
Flanneldolphin-man: If there's nothing else, please read those over and we'll see you in a few days.05:21
dolphin-manone more thing05:21
* dolphin-man giggles05:21
dolphin-manone sec, ill open up a text file and save them. I'll read it after I get off work tomorrow05:21
dolphin-mani need to sleep05:22
Flanneldolphin-man: Please part this channel to keep it free for others who need to use it.  Thanks.05:22
dolphin-manI need to think of something catchy to say as I part channels05:23
FlannelHow about "bye"05:23
dolphin-manchu, think of something for me for next time i come here05:23
dolphin-mantoo common05:23
IdleOnehad a kick waiting :(05:23
IdleOnewith a clever part message05:23
bazhanghe's asked to be patient, and wait more than 5 seconds between questions...so he waits a whole minute07:02
bazhangrefuses to read the grub2 wiki as well07:02
ikoniaprobably worthless anyway if he has multiple broken windows entries and he's used "boot-repair" blindly07:03
bazhanghis Windows is either gone, or mortally damaged07:04
bazhangodds  on having backups: against 3/507:04
ikoniaI suspect it's not gone as you'd get an error, I'm pretty sure it's fixable if he wasn't blindly doing things,07:05
bazhangit will be if he continues to rush blindly around07:06
bazhangI thought directly editing grub was a no-no, and very cleared warned against07:11
ikoniapretty much07:11
ikoniait can be useful to get out of a jam ,but the next update from another package will break it/overwrite it07:11
bazhangin fact the wiki states that very clearly, another sign he is not reading a single thing07:11
ikoniait's actually written in the grub.conf - ** DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE MANUALLY **07:12
ikoniathat said, it can be useful as a fix to get a machine booting to fix it properly07:12
bazhangyes, I've seen that; pretty much impossible to miss07:12
ikoniathe current menu generation process isn't great for troubleshooting, especially if you need to keep chrooting - so just directly editing the file to get it to boot, then fixing it properly isn't a bad idea07:13
ikonia@mark #ubuntu-offtopic cantstanya trying to stir up something against idleone out of the blue then says "need to sleep" so can't actually deal with it07:20
ubottuThe operation succeeded.07:20
ubottuwilee-nilee called the ops in #ubuntu (usuario)15:35
genii@comment 57094 Spamming in Spanish, ignored !es15:38
ubottuComment added.15:38
genii@comment 57096 Spamming15:43
ubottuComment added.15:43
geniiI wonder why ruby in precise is default 1.8 and then 1.9 is it's own separate package.18:48
PiciWhat is cantstanya on about?18:56
geniiNo idea.18:57
bazhangI sense some urgency19:25
genii@comment 57097 Ad spam20:02
ubottuComment added.20:02
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (BANLIST FULL, REMOVE SOME BANS)20:37
IdleOneAll them permabans we set21:00
geniiI think all my bans in total are less than 20 or so21:03
k1l_i just removed some german dynip bans21:04
k1l_when i set bans i do set a time frame with the comments.21:05
ikoniait's hard to work out exactly how many for the older ops as there is the stale BT entries, and all the Marks too21:07
ikoniaMyrtti: ping - any chance we can borrow your useful ban script please.21:07
geniiHm, actually it appears I have more like 95, but this is across all channels.21:07
ikoniayou'll find it's less than that as you've probably got a few in the old BT stale ban list, plus some marks21:08
genii47 in #u going back to 200921:11
IdleOnewe could clear the +q list, thoughts?21:13
Myrttiwhich ban script21:14
k1l_bantracker seems to be out of sync somehow21:15
Unit193IdleOne: +e and +I lists taking up much?21:15
Myrttiwell anyway it will have to wait until tomorrow, my eyes are declaring an expiration date right now21:15
IdleOneUnit193: +e is managed by the floodbots, threre shouldn't be any leftovers from that21:16
IdleOnebut I think floodbots only count +b and +q21:16
IdleOneand the @marks21:16
k1l_just pay some attention to not remove the ip-range bans from syko :)21:32
geniiI've removed all of mine now that are possible.21:34
IdleOneI removed the floodbot bans that are actually kicks. we can always reset if need be21:35
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from kabamaro)23:29
wilee-nileeSo when and why is #ubuntu-beginners a invite only now, just curious23:32
Unit193wilee-nilee: It forwards to #ubuntu, you'd only see that it's invite only if you are already in #ubuntu.23:32
wilee-nileeah, that makes sense, cool. ;)23:33

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