=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
mojo706thought there would be something14:20
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | AppDev Roundtable - Tue | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21925/appdev-roundtable-tue/
mojo706yes we are about to begin14:57
mhall119plenary is running over, we'll start when it's done14:59
mhall119dpm: I'm gonna refill me coffee, be one minute15:05
dpmmhall119, ok15:05
dpmif anyone wants to join live on the session15:07
mojo706mhall119, how does this work? how do I say contribute?15:08
mojo706no place to listen in?15:08
dpmmojo706, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21925/appdev-roundtable-tue/15:08
marrabld_The video on the webpage here http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21925/appdev-roundtable-tue/ has disappeared for me.  Is this just because it is updating?15:10
marrabld_I ask becuase I am also getting a permission error on the page15:10
GuidoPallemanshttp://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-appdev-roundtable ?15:10
popeymarrabld_: permission error is probably for the etherpad, click the "notes in a separate window" link at the bottom15:10
katiehi, is anyone else having difficulty viewing the hangout?15:11
popeydpm: is the video live?15:11
marrabld_Authorization is required to access http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-appdev-roundtable15:11
marrabld_Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again.15:11
marrabld_You are currently logged in as https://login.ubuntu.com/+id/bbTy8DK. (logout)15:11
karniHas the session started yet? Can't see embedded yt on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21925/appdev-roundtable-tue/15:11
mhall119marrabld_: try logging in directly to http://pad.ubuntu.com15:12
mhall119karni: we're checking15:12
karnimhall119: tnx15:12
marrabld_mhall119: Same error there15:13
mhall119everybody refresh to get the video15:13
karnidpm: tnx. stream working from uds site now15:13
popeyyay video15:13
marrabld_I can see the video now.15:14
mojo706installed missing plugin15:14
baggyi still can't see the video15:14
katiedpm, yes, you're back15:14
mojo706now I am here to bad I cannot speak bandwidth issues15:14
jasonamyersI've been using it15:17
jasonamyersto develop a campfire application15:17
jasonamyersBut I've been a bit lost on how to move beyond the simple tutorial15:17
swordfishSorry for the delay... I'm the guy behind the netwalk clone...15:18
marrabld_I have been, but I have just been working through tutorials trying to learn QML15:18
karnisry, got caught up in stand-up15:18
GuidoPallemansjasonamyers: you should join the hangout15:18
jasonamyersat work :(15:19
CheeseBurgAm I late?15:20
mojo706I actually have a semi-complete html5 app on the desktop at home15:20
GuidoPallemansmojo you're on the hangout right?15:20
mhall119CheeseBurg: only a little :)15:22
karnimojo706: What kind of HTML5 app? Is it Cordova app?15:22
CheeseBurgJust came from the keynote15:22
CheeseBurgWhat will the email app be based on?15:22
marrabld_Is there unit testing built in to the SDK?15:23
jasonamyersmy current biggest issue is determining the proper way to consume an API15:23
jasonamyersthat has a streaming component :( So I believe i need a C++ piece15:23
mojo706karni, mine15:23
jasonamyersbut it's a tad confusing15:23
marrabld_+1 more tutorials15:23
jasonamyersyes +1 more tutorials and screen layout especially!15:24
karnimojo706: I assume "mine" mean's it's not an Ubuntu cordova app ;)15:24
mhall119jasonamyers: regular layout or convergence layouts?15:24
popeymaybe we should be running a documentation sprint ?15:24
jasonamyersI believe convergence15:24
mojo706no its not actually I am trying to port it from FirefoxOS15:24
popeyor perhaps reward people who write documentation rather than just reward people who write code15:24
karniRather more tutorials, I think pointing to more documentation would be step forward.15:24
CheeseBurgQUESTION: What will the email app be based on and will it replace thunderbird on the desktop with the desktop session is completed?15:24
jasonamyersthe ones using columns row etc15:24
mhall119jasonamyers: there's actually some very good documentation for that on http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/ubuntu-layouts.html15:24
mhall119jasonamyers: on columns and rows, yeah, there's some upstream docs but15:25
mojo706I prefer the docs15:25
jasonamyersmhall119, bookmarked15:25
popeyCheeseBurg: Not known yet. We're currently in early planning, but have identified at least one backend - trojita - which may be appropriate.15:25
mhall119CheeseBurg: Trojita15:25
swordfishA question: from what I understood there will be no way to use external dependencies in click packages... Is that true?15:26
karniQUESTION: They're not available yet online, are they? (The HTML5 cookbook)15:26
GuidoPallemanskarni yes, i just googled ubuntu cookbook and found it15:26
popeyswordfish: you can bundle inside a click package15:27
mhall119karni: http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/cookbook/html-5/15:27
mhall119like I said, sparse15:27
swordfishI wanted to develop a image filter application for the contest, but the problem was using some libraries for external image processing...15:27
popeyswordfish: bundle them in15:27
karnimhall119: right. air thin sparse, looking forward to it :)15:28
rschroll_It was just intimated to me that apps won't have access to the file system.  Is this correct?  Will there be any way to access local files?15:28
rschroll_(Can't watch the video right now; will check it out this evening.)15:29
mhall119rschroll_: yes and no15:29
Krispyquick question and I figured this was the best channel out of all available...what is the status of the email app for Ubuntu Touch...it is the one thing that is preventing me from having it permanently on my phone15:29
mhall119rschroll_: apps will have access to a folder of their own, and can request extended permissions to access more15:29
CheeseBurgQUESTION: Will the SDK be updated every release or does it run on it's own schedule?15:29
swordfishpopey: thank you, but as example opencv is going to be pretty big, can't it be inported?15:29
mhall119Krispy: non-existant at the moment15:29
popeyswordfish: no15:29
rschroll_mhall119: Is there documentation / an API for this I should know about?15:30
GuidoPallemansrschroll_: look in the cookbooks15:30
mhall119rschroll_: there will be if there isn't, the security team would know more15:30
KrispyThat is sad...everything else is so elegant but the WAP Gmail is terrible.  I have the SDK...maybe time to start building15:30
mhall119#ubuntu-security I think15:30
popeyKrispy: please do! :D15:31
swordfishpopey: ok.. thanks15:31
KrispyCheers...back to my full time gig15:31
GuidoPallemansQUESTION: I don't really know how to make a click package. Is there a session about click packages and/or a tutorial?15:32
rickspencer3I don't think that's quite how it will work15:32
rickspencer3I think you will ask a helper to provide you with files that you want15:32
rschroll_OK.  will ask there15:32
rickspencer3for example, if you want to import pictures you can use the content hub to import pictures15:32
rickspencer3you *won't* be able to ask for access to just anywhere on the file system15:33
rickspencer3mhall119, ^15:33
mhall119rickspencer3: reading it, I'll update on the video15:33
karniGuidoPallemans: There's "Packaging" option in Qt Creator (Ubuntu SDK)15:33
karniGuidoPallemans: also, you can look up "click packaging" on yt, I've seen a clip or two about it15:33
GuidoPallemanskarni: I know, but I don't know how to use it15:34
popeyFeel fee to add notes to http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-appdev-roundtable15:34
karniGuidoPallemans: http://sergiusens.github.io/posts/click-packages-included-on-ubuntu-touch.html15:34
mhall119GuidoPallemans: there are on the foundations track I think15:34
mhall119GuidoPallemans: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/search/?q=click&x=-1119&y=-9915:35
rickspencer3QUESTION: I find a spend a lot of time in qml making things like columns and flickables and stuff layout properly ... any thought to a set of design patterns for qml?15:35
karniGuidoPallemans: most def, have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjGAnV33GHU15:35
GuidoPallemansall bookmarked, thanks15:36
marrabld_QtQuick V2.0 isn't installed on 12.10  I had to use this work around http://askubuntu.com/questions/236166/qtquick-version-2-0-is-not-installed-while-trying-to-run-currencyconverter-exa  to get it to work.  Is it possible to update the app developer website15:36
mhall119rickspencer3: if you could find somebody's time to write it :)15:37
rickspencer3mhall119, I don't even know who knows how to do it ;)15:37
mhall119anybody on the SDK team probably15:38
mhall119bzoltan or kaleo15:38
mhall119would be the ones I asked15:38
GuidoPallemansany other questions?15:38
clepto1995QUESTION: is there going to be something like Intents on android?15:39
CheeseBurgQUESTION: Will there be a session on the app store?15:39
CheeseBurgFOLLOW-UP: I am talking about the app discovery.15:45
CheeseBurgHow does app discovery work in the dash (or is that not the place for this discussion)?15:45
karnidpm: mhall119: forwarded you feedback e-mail (not sure if you saw it)15:45
CheeseBurgBut what if I am just browsing and not looking for something specific?15:46
CheeseBurgHow will that work in the dash?15:46
karniI'll definitely join the feedback session15:47
karniincluding cordova15:47
dpmkarni, was this on Cordova apps?15:47
dpmkarni, ah, perfect, thanks!15:47
karnialso in general about qtc and ubuntu-html5-theme15:47
karniyw guys!15:47
karniSoon I'll have a really simple todo app, both in HTML5 and QML (basically the same app, to consitute an example you can implement in whichever you feel more fluent)15:50
karniFiddling with the QML version today.15:50
marrabld_QUESTION: Is it possible to use python bindings for touch?15:50
karnimarrabld_: PyQt.. ? Correct me if I'm wrong guys.15:50
jasonamyersAMEN moving from python feels really odd!15:51
marrabld_karni: I am not sure pyqt will work naturally on touch.  I use it for desktop apps all the time15:51
timpmarrabld_, karni we use Qt5 for touch, and pyqt for qt5 is still in development15:51
marrabld_timp:  Thanks15:51
karnitimp: thank you15:51
timpohhh what I just said is wrong. I see that PyQt5 was released very recently!15:52
timpwoo :)15:52
timpI'd say we should be able to make it work together, but we haven't had time (in the UITK team) yet to look at it. http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/software/pyqt/download515:53
marrabld_I might stick to trying to write my physics engine in C++ then.  Makeing pthyon works sound stoo hard.15:54
marrabld_great, thanks.15:55
karniWhat it's called again? (out of curiosity)15:56
timptime for angry penguins :)15:56
karniThat library you mentioned15:56
mhall119karni: Box2D15:56
karnitimp: hahah15:56
karnimhall119: thank you15:56
GuidoPallemanstimp: haha15:56
marrabld_sweet.  I love physics though.  :-)  Okayu Ill check Box2d  thanks15:56
timpangry penguins with evil seals as adversaries15:57
karniThanks guys15:57
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Weather and calculator app designs showcase | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21929/appdev-1308-design-review-weather/
istimsakyes we can16:03
popeymhall119: live!16:03
mhall119popey: wrong channel16:04
pietro98-albiniWebbyIT, o/16:07
istimsaktake your time guys16:08
roadmr+1 I can hear you16:10
dpmfor anyone to join the session ^16:11
zygayes I can see that16:13
* zyga is interested in the design and how that translates to more traditional, boring, office-y click-here-to-do-that-business-thing apps16:14
istimsakWhy was the usage of python discontinued?16:16
zygaistimsak: we're doing a python3 app that uses ubuntu SDK but we've had to use DBus as a bridge16:16
zygakeep going, I'd love to see more of this!16:18
dpmany questions on IRC on the weather designs?16:24
istimsakzyga: this means the ubuntu SDK package includes, QML and javascript which is more easier to develop ubuntu apps? What did you mean, "had to use a DBus bridge"?16:24
zygawhy did you use a small fraction of the screen rather than make the weather app full screen?16:24
zygaistimsak: there are no python3 bindings for all the current Qt5-based QT and QML stuff so we wrote our app UI in C++ with a lot of dbus calls to the core that works in python316:25
zygathere is no gradient on my daily package16:25
zyga(at least not in the weather app)16:25
zygaQUESTION: why did you use a small fraction of the screen rather than make the weather app full screen?16:26
zygafor the key information16:26
zygafor the temperature16:27
zygaand "icon"16:27
zyga(yeah the delay kills interactivity a bit)16:27
roadmrdpm: are you running the hangout? could you lock your video window on the one with the actual phone screens?16:27
zygathat's not what I mean16:28
zyganot about putting everything on the screen16:28
zygabut just the two bits of info16:28
roadmrzyga: you should join the hangout, there are places :P16:28
zygathey are very small and the screen is largely unused16:28
zygayes it works16:29
neokoredon't know if it's the right moment, but... could you explain something about the daily and hourly scroll?16:29
zygaquestion about the calculator app, do you think that adding an ability to put names to computation makes sense? traditionally input on touchscreens is not something that people _want to_ do, especially in an app that never had that functionality (all the other calculator apps out there)16:30
dpmneokore, sure, since we've started calculator, let's answer it towards the end. What in particular would you like to know more about daily/hourly scrolling?16:31
zygayou kind of answered it before I got the answer16:32
zygaI see your rationale16:32
neokoredpm: Sorry, the delay :) I want to know about gestures to scroll between hourly and daily forecasts16:32
neokoredpm I thought about it because I'm working on it right now16:33
istimsakzyga: so you have to write UI apps in c++ to use DBus for python3 and QT-based apps to communicate? I guess the python3 and QT were not easily compatible. Will older apps that were built using python be converted to QML?16:34
zygaistimsak: I cannot speak about other apps16:35
zygaistimsak: python has qt bindings, just qt5 is missing at this time16:35
istimsakzyga: what are the benefits of using qt5?16:39
zygaistimsak: we want to allow our app to have a touch UI in the future16:40
zygaistimsak: and it kind of made that possible16:40
zygaistimsak: (it's pretty much touch friendly now, we just need to push it through a few iterations on actual touch devies016:40
dpmneokore, that's your question being answered right now :)16:41
istimsakzyga: great!!! So if I wanted to to get my hands dirty it ubuntu app development, the it would be better understand qt5?16:41
zygaistimsak: depending on what kind of apps you want to do16:42
zygaistimsak: games don't typically seem to use qt5 AFAIK16:42
zygaistimsak: desktop apps, yeah, sure16:42
zygaistimsak: touch apps, yeah, especially qml216:42
istimsakzyga: thank you. Great session :-)16:44
neokoredpm, thank you and sorry about delay, I get the video a pair of minutes late16:44
zygaI would love to see some _GENERAL_ design guidelines, not specific to a particular touch app16:45
dpmneokore, no worries. Did that answer the question? It's a bit difficult to explain in words, but Christina and Michal are going to publish a video for it to make it clearer16:45
zygaI understand that before the platform is out and people get the feeling of it it's a bit hard to do16:45
neokoreIt's answered, I saw a former video but I think that I'll write them or talk tomorrow in the design meeting, thank you all again16:46
zygathanks! I'll check the schedule16:48
dpmany more questions on weather or calc design?16:51
dpmneokore, any other questions on weather?16:52
neokoredpm well... maybe some ideas about the famous scroll :D16:52
neokoredpm, maybe it will be useful to differ between touch and scroll for daily forecast and touch, _hold_ and scroll for hourly forecast16:54
neokorewhat Christina and Michall think?16:54
zygadid you think about using a set of pre-selected words (or icons) for calculator labels?16:54
zyga(with an option to use a custom text if so desired)16:55
WebbyITzyga, we'll put the location where the calc has been done16:55
WebbyITzyga, we are working on it16:55
dpmany other questions?16:56
zyganope, thanks16:57
dpmthanks everyone!16:59
zygathere is a 4 minute lag!16:59
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
dpmneokore, sure, feel free to bring any feedback on the next design hangout, or if you cannot make it to the hangout, e-mail will work as well17:00
neokoredpm, good I'll make it. Thank you!17:00
dpmcool :)17:00
dpmfor everyone who was attending the session about Testing with the Ubuntu SDK, there's been a slight change of schedule due to conflicting sessions: the Testing with the Ubuntu SDK session has now moved to Thursday17:53
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | Testing with the ubuntu sdk | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21838/appdev-1308-quality-testing-sdk/
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
zygahmm is http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21838/appdev-1308-quality-testing-sdk/ supposed to be here now?18:06
boikoit seems the session was moved to Thursday18:09
mojo706sorry guys session moved to Thursday according dpm18:10
dpmfor everyone who was attending the session about Testing with the Ubuntu SDK, there's been a slight change of schedule due to conflicting sessions: the Testing with the Ubuntu SDK session has now moved to Thursday18:10
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Track: App Development | E-mail app planning | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21911/appdev-1308-email-app-planning/
popeydpm: whats the url?19:07
dpmon it :)19:07
dpmpopey, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/3f7d5fef392b5663f39cc47b63b8fd1c02f636e019:07
pmcgowanwe can hear you19:10
MobbyGHear you!19:11
barryfolder subscriptions?19:11
or211Any plans for calendar integration?19:14
pmcgowanpopey, we havent made a set list I know of19:15
pmcgowanpopey, maps need to be addressed for example19:15
pmcgowanmore webapps for sure19:16
dinkometalacbut we cannot count on youtube19:16
dinkometalacwithout proper html5 video in webview19:16
pmcgowaninterested to see what emerges from the contest19:16
pmcgowandinkometalac, we will have that soon btw19:17
dinkometalaci already have some working code19:18
dinkometalacfor playing the video19:18
dinkometalacand lorenzo (i think it was the name)19:18
dinkometalacalready did some on youtube api19:18
dinkometalaci think v319:19
popeypmcgowan: welcome to join us if you want?19:19
popeyagree to what? ☻19:22
popeysorry, we're 1 min ahead of you19:22
houseofbeanI'm interesting in the email app, but I'm a noob.19:30
mojo706houseofbean, define noob19:32
dpmpmcgowan, do you know what"TDB"  in Assign labels (TDB) is?19:33
pmcgowantbd probably19:33
pmcgowanpopey, yes19:33
houseofbeanmojo706:  Well, I'm not a noob with Ubuntu. Using it since 9.04.  But I'd like to get into making apps, and learning more about coding .  I can't really code, but I would be able to help test stuff.  I'm a noob with python and coding in general19:33
mojo706Email App Suggestion: Choice on how long to keep messages19:34
mojo706houseofbean, then learn coding first.19:34
mojo706you can contribute later19:35
pmcgowanI think mhall did a run through the reqts met by trojita, will see if I can find that19:35
popeypmcgowan: we have that19:35
pmcgowanpopey, vg nm19:35
houseofbeanmojo706:  Thanks for the coding advice.  I've only flirted with php and python.  Yeah, can't really contribute if you can't code.  ha ha.  But I'll get there sooner than later.19:36
TheMusohouseofbean: If you want to get involved with writing apps for Ubuntu touch faster, you might want to learn Qml.19:38
TheMusoBut learning python is also good, because you get a good grounding in the basics, and in objected oriented programming.19:38
houseofbeanTheMuso: I've got Ubuntu touch on my Nexus 4 and it's a beautiful tease.  I plan on learning Qml too.19:39
TheMusohouseofbean: The best of luck.19:39
houseofbeanTheMuso:  Thank you19:39
TheMusohouseofbean: Hope it works out for you.19:39
pmcgowanyeah good cut19:39
pmcgowanwould existing app developers be free to do the UI19:43
pmcgowancore app devs19:43
mojo706what are the milestones? how do we find out the milestones?19:46
popeywe set them at the start of the project19:46
pmcgowanpopey, do we have an lp project already?19:46
houseofbeanFilters would be great later on.19:47
dpmcurrent milestones ^^19:47
popey^^ needs rebooting19:47
popeythanks guys!19:48
houseofbeanThank you to everyone!19:48
pmcgowanthanks guys19:49
dpmthanks everyone!19:50
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-appdev-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/appdev-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-appdev-1.html
dpmgood start to UDS, see you all tomorrow!20:12
=== bfiller is now known as bfiller_afk

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