=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
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=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Daily-release every 4-hours - the process | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21952/client-1308-daily-release-process/
=== dednick|lunch is now known as dednick
robruanybody else finding that kiwiirc is not working in the frame? gotta open it in a separate tab before it does anything. on the summit page kiwi just shows a featureless grey box15:04
fgintherrobru, sorry not using kiwiirc15:05
robrufginther, well, me neither ;-)15:06
robruwait, it's 10 past the hour... i don't see any video!15:07
zygasame here15:07
Mirvcoming soon15:07
sil2100Starting the session15:07
Mirvsil2100 just pressed the button15:07
zygaI guess everyone was watching the plenary15:07
roadmrpeople running down the hall after the keynote, they'll be here soon :)15:07
Mirvyeah, plenary went a bit overtime15:07
* slangasek arrives out of breath15:08
loolall the good seats are taken15:09
loolsil2100: URL?15:09
lool(sorry missed it)15:09
Mirvlool: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/8e384c96c6513553d5f20527f056b191799c341a?authuser=0&hl=en15:09
Mirvor anyone else who wants to join the hangout15:09
sergiusenslool: Mirv think of joining myself, will drop off if other people need to get in15:09
rsalvetisergiusens: join in15:09
slangasekreminder: lower third15:09
robruquaternourly release!15:11
loolcan't enable lower third nor toolbox15:12
slangaseklool: AIUI it only works to enable it via the toolbox; if you click on the 'lower third' icon directly that sends you on a wild goose chase15:13
lool(geting an error with lower third and some display issue with the toolbox settings)15:13
slangasekif you close out the sidebar and reopen the toolbox, maybe that helps?15:13
loolI initially pressed the toolbox one, but it just shows up a blank settings panel15:13
loolno luck with removing and readding the extension either15:14
loolI will switch to google-chrome in the next session15:14
loolusing chromium right now15:15
Mirvmaybe Google has started preferring Firefox over Chromium, works fine here ;)15:16
sergiusenschromium works fine15:16
xnoxAre there links to that spreadsheet?15:18
xnoxsil2100: ^15:18
slangasekI think it's linked from the blueprint15:18
slangasekalso it's in the pad15:18
* xnox logs into the pad.ubuntu.com15:18
loolxnox: in the pad15:19
loolah too late15:19
slangasekso is this session solely informational?  or do we have problems with the current setup that we want to solve yet?15:20
loolslangasek: it's meant to be informational first, but I think it's also a Q&A and I certainly intend to bring up some issues with current approach  :-)15:21
sergiusensslangasek: I want to bring up how migration to click for some of these could break the stacks15:22
sergiusensalso vanguards in the opposite direction15:22
sergiusensor what does it really cover15:22
slangaseksil2100: will there be time for us to discuss these things? :) ^^15:22
xnoxto me a hightlight word that daily-release wizards highlight on would be nice "dailyvanguard" or some such, similar to like "webops" nick alias.15:25
slangasekMirv: you may want to turn up your input15:25
asaclets give him a few more minutes. i think that its pretty useful to get that information at first15:25
Mirvslangasek: right15:26
sergiusenstheir handling the collision15:26
sergiusenslool: a lot15:27
xnoxslangasek: flying the flag, eh?! =)15:27
slangasekof course15:27
cyphermoxlool you sound like a robot15:27
nuclearboband now he looks like one too15:28
cyphermoxI take that bad, it's more like Microsoft Bob15:28
cjwatsonI thought this was being addressed by the scheme where autopilot tests could alternatively refer to a bzr branch for click packages15:33
cjwatson(and exact revision)15:33
cjwatsonNot ideal since it doesn't test things in place in the same way, though15:33
lool(did I sound ok this time around?)15:33
Mirvlool: yes15:33
asacwe surely want to contiunue doing daily release testin15:33
asacon apps15:33
asaccjwatson: yeah, a bit hacky, but if only thing we need is source, it probably can be used for now15:34
cjwatsonI'm happy-ish for the time being.  A bit concerned about making sure the apparmor profiles are properly in place15:34
loolI think what helps is using some unity api to launch apps from the tests15:35
xnoxcjwatson: is a "test" extension be accepted in click packaging? cause as an app-dev i'd want to package/run/test autopilot tests.15:35
loolrather than launching apps directly15:35
cjwatsonxnox: Quite a bit would need to be done to make it possible for two different apps to see each other15:35
asacis it super bad to allow autopilot tests just to be stored in the .click packages in a dir "autopilot/" or so ?15:35
xnoxcjwatson: ack. no-dependency assumption.15:35
asacnot sure how big the .click packages would grow with tests included or if it would do any harm for production15:36
cjwatsonSomething like that is probably a better long-term approach, but I think it's fine to do hacks for now15:36
asacack. just thought maybe that would even be simpler15:36
asacto implement. but whatever works for now :)15:36
cjwatsonah, if we're going to launch things through upstart, that indeed makes sense15:36
asacfginther: ^15:37
sergiusensasac: that is the plan we discussed and ironed out15:37
slangaseklool: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/StackPublish ?15:37
sergiusensasac: there'sa blueprint I can fetch that has all this15:37
asacsergiusens: so then we can defer the bzr approach for now?15:37
xnoxlool: maybe disable webcam, to get better audio throughput uplink.15:37
asacif we just store stuff in .click thats good enough15:37
asacsergiusens: cool. thanks15:37
sergiusensasac: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-s-image-based-updates15:38
slangasekI think the current documentation doesn't help much with "outsiders" getting a handle on the process15:38
loolxnox: is it still bad?15:39
xnoxlool: make a pause every 40s, it kind of drifts & catches up =)15:39
roadmrhaha :) you could also try reducing your bandwidth (slide bar on the top right of the hangout)15:39
sergiusensasac: we decided we didn't want the tests inside the packages, that was my original idea15:40
sergiusensthat and bundle the unity8 autopilot emulators and sdk ones15:40
xnoxsil2100: is there a bug tracker for ps-jenkins merger?15:40
* xnox 'd like to file and track bugs/issues with daily release.15:41
sergiusensxnox: merger != than daily release15:41
fgintherThere is also the general concern with how community developers would share an application and the tests (i.e. would this be facilitated through qtcreator?)15:42
asacsergiusens: was there a valid reason to dismiss that approach? feels easiest to realize15:42
xnoxsergiusens: ha =) who is responsible for ps-merger then?15:42
cyphermoxwell, most people in the "stack" teams don't have upload rights anyway15:42
sergiusensasac: the other is already done15:42
fgintherxnox, ps-merge is my team15:42
fgintherer, ps-merger15:42
cyphermoxit's always still possible to upload a package yourself to the archive15:42
sergiusensasac: phablet-click-test15:43
cyphermoxsil2100: ^^15:43
ev-uds2If upstream projects don't want to constantly dig through Jenkins, can't we just push notifications of problems to them when problems occur?15:43
fgintherxnox, the main project is lp:jenkins-launchpad-plugin15:43
cyphermoxev-uds2: that's what we do15:44
xnoxfginther: thanks.15:44
cyphermoxev-uds2: jenkins isn't doing such a great job of emailing, but we have an escalation process as we look through the issues15:44
cyphermoxev-uds2: and through that we notify specific people for the team responsible for the package that has issues15:45
cyphermoxlool: +1, the vanguard process probably needs to be better communicated15:45
cyphermoxsil2100: ^ having a channel could help for this, but it does increase the complexity of the communication channels15:46
* slangasek hops off to prep for the next session. Thanks, all!15:46
Mirvcyphermox: #ubuntu-desktop?15:47
cyphermoxMirv: ubuntu-desktop gets a lot of noise. but it could be added to the topic I guess15:48
sergiusens#ubuntu-desktop doesn't cover the whole of daily release though15:48
cyphermoxsil2100: ^ ^^^^ there are enough people to ack packaging changes...15:48
Mirvsergiusens: but all the vanguards are part of the team15:48
sergiusensubuntu-release feels more appropriate15:49
cjwatsonrather #ubuntu-devel15:49
cyphermoxcjwatson: sorry, yea that's what I meant15:50
asacsil2100: how reliable is your phone testing done with otto? does that yield the same results that we see on the image dashboard?15:50
cyphermoxbut even without resorting to that, me, kenvandine, are core dev on the team15:50
asacis that something we hsould look at also?15:50
cyphermoxsergiusens: I'm not sure. there are quite a few failures that consistantly happen again, plus while the packages are always built when there is a merge request, it only runs unit tests15:51
cyphermoxsergiusens: the daily-release process additionally runs integration tests before an upload15:52
sergiusenscyphermox: it runs autopilot tests too15:52
sergiusenscyphermox: on phones and x86 for autopilot15:52
cyphermoxsergiusens: I haven't seen that ever15:52
cyphermoxbut ok15:52
sergiusenscyphermox: e.g.;
cyphermoxsergiusens: fair enough15:53
cyphermoxsergiusens: rsalveti: so what are you trying to achieve? a package that ends up sooner in the distro, or getting failure notifications earlier?15:54
loolI fear fginther talk over sil210015:54
loolah stupid me15:54
sergiusenscyphermox: remove duplication15:54
cyphermoxsergiusens: alright, I'm not against that, but it's still a good safeguard to run integration tests just before an actual upload15:55
sergiusenscyphermox: I'm good with that15:55
cyphermoxsergiusens: ok, then we're agreeing ;)15:56
rsalvetijust further optimization :-)15:56
cyphermoxcool, cool15:56
cyphermoxsil2100: notify all authors of the commits we land via email as we publish the packages?15:57
cyphermoxlool: ^15:57
sil2100cyphermox: sounds nice15:57
cyphermoxit shouldn't be that hard to do, I'm just concerned about the spam ;D15:58
asacrsalveti: +1 ... bring cause and effect closer together so the developer CAN care15:58
asacabout images15:58
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
asaclool: session is over :)16:00
loolthanks all for the session16:01
asacgood session. thanks! well done sil2100 and all16:01
loolcyphermox: I think I mentioned this one16:01
loolmaybe I wasn't specific enough, but that's exactly what I had in mind  :-)16:02
asacfor me youtube is still running16:02
rsalvetisil2100: thanks!16:02
loolasac: well the hangout is over now16:02
loolasac: you're living in the past!   ;-)16:02
nuclearbobgood session, thanks16:02
sil2100Thanks guys, sorry if I didn't look enough on IRC16:03
asaclool: how long? did the session finish on time even?16:03
loolasac: at :01 or so16:03
sil2100Need to train this 'look at two places at once'16:03
asacso 60 seconds delay16:03
sil2100The next session here will be in 2 hours I guess?16:03
loolsil2100: what works best for me is splitting screen in half vertically, video on left, other browser window on right with pad, IRC below or something16:03
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: Client | Mir/XMir Quality and Performance Benchmarking for Saucy | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21948/client-s-1308-mir-qa-and-benchmarking/
sil2100We'll be starting the session in a minute18:04
thomikgunn: going to join the hawngout?18:05
thomiwell, imagine that I spelt that correctly18:05
=== olli_ is now known as olli
chilukcan you cover how testing is going as far as valve/steam is concerned?  I think that was a big win for us, and it would be horrible to lose that user base.18:10
istimsaksince Mir will not use proprietary drivers, can it still deliver quality 3D graphics for graphics extensive applications and games?18:18
chilukAre you guys testing power usage of mir/xmir vs x?18:22
chilukthat's an important benchmark for laptops.18:23
balloonsis unity8 + mir on the desktop going to be targeted for testing before next cycle?18:24
chilukespecially if we end up releasing with non-proprietary drivers... lots of the open source drivers currently suck when it comes to power usage.18:24
istimsakThere are some applications that were created for X. Xmir will allow backward compatibility for those apps. When Mir finally take over, will those same apps work for Mir or do that have to be rewritten?18:26
balloonsI realize cycle gets ambiguous, sorry :-p18:28
chiluk14.04 will be lts though, is there a plan in place to backport fixes as they become available?18:28
chilukperhaps a mir-lts-backport like the kernel has?18:29
chiluksorry that may be taking things off-topic18:29
istimsakYou can start by testing the app that come pre-installed on ubuntu releases and the ones that are constantly downloaded.18:33
chilukcan you comment on the use or non-use of the phoronix test suite?18:45
chiluknm... olli just answered it.. lag sucks.18:45
chilukdo we have any test related to graphical corruption?18:49
cgregan_udsI'd be happy to help with that when you need it18:49
chilukeven on x there are a number of bugs related to terminal corruption... or window corruption..18:49
chiluksorry for monopolizing irc.18:52
ollichiluk, welcome, good questions18:54
chilukthe more work you guys do the less I have to do.18:54
balloonssorry I couldn't make most of the session.. logs for me... thanks guys!18:56
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Track: App Development | Autopilot - Discuss Ideas for Future Development | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21866/autopilot-discuss-ideas-for-future-development/
sil2100Starting the session!19:06
karniIs the video live yet? (not here)19:06
fgintherkarni, it should be now19:07
karniIt's on19:07
sil2100karni: it should be19:07
sil2100Ok, cool19:07
karnisil2100: \o/19:07
slangasekthomi: python3! python3!19:09
doanac`where's the moderator :)19:09
fgintherslangasek, is there a drop dead date for python 2 support?19:13
slangasekfginther: would be best to confirm with seb128, but TTBOMK the goal is still to get python2 off the Touch images for 13.1019:14
plarsit's there now, because we have to have it to test with19:16
plarsif it's not part of the system images, it won't be easy to install19:16
udsbotuLaunchpad bug 1210260 in Autopilot "forcing the emulator name to be the same as the qml type it's too restrictive" [Undecided,New]19:18
slangasekplars: well, yes, this is my point - autopilot should be migrated to python319:19
slangasekpython3 will be on the Touch images for 13.1019:19
balloons_udsthe biggest thing to chat about now is doing proper waits19:23
doanac`balloons_uds: you want to join the hangout?19:24
balloons_udswe can't always do a waitFor or eventually, because a click doesn't register sometimes.. What ends up happening is looping for an object, or looping an action for an object19:24
doanac`sent you a PM with the link19:25
alesageiirc there's something like elopio's suggestion in the Selenium web driver: http://docs.seleniumhq.org/docs/04_webdriver_advanced.jsp#implicit-waits19:33
elopioalesage: yes. The nice thing on selenium is that it never returns None. It throws an exception.19:33
plarsI'm not sure why autopilot should care19:39
plarsright, it's just another device... that's more of a utah or jenkins script problem to talk to it (which may be slightly different if we don't talk to it by adb for some reason)19:40
plarsat the very least, we would probably have greater control19:40
plarsrename autopilot emulators to something else! :)19:40
plarsI think the work we'll need to do will be more in terms of - we have to "poweron" the emulator device via software19:41
plarsbut yeah, I think that discussion is outside the context of this19:41
thomiany other feature requests?19:48
lool(python3?  :)19:49
thomilool: yeah yeah, it's coming :)19:49
sergiusensdoanac`: is daemon cut for good?19:50
sergiusensfginther: good one19:51
sergiusensthomi: evdev19:51
sergiusensthomi: fginther http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6034052/19:53
sergiusensthomi: I agree with you19:54
sergiusensthomi: should be in the sdk19:54
sergiusensballoons: should be an easy fix19:57
balloonssergiusens, :-)19:57
sil2100Thanks guys!19:59
sil2100See you tomorrow everyone20:00
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/client-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-client-1.html
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nyulahi, anybody there? this site need an count down to those summit,  many people dont understand time-zone conversion22:45
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