[15:04] <robru> anybody else finding that kiwiirc is not working in the frame? gotta open it in a separate tab before it does anything. on the summit page kiwi just shows a featureless grey box
[15:05] <fginther> robru, sorry not using kiwiirc
[15:06] <robru> fginther, well, me neither ;-)
[15:07] <roadmr> hello
[15:07] <robru> wait, it's 10 past the hour... i don't see any video!
[15:07] <zyga> same here
[15:07] <Mirv> coming soon
[15:07] <sil2100> Starting the session
[15:07] <Mirv> sil2100 just pressed the button
[15:07] <Mirv> :)
[15:07] <zyga> I guess everyone was watching the plenary
[15:07] <roadmr> people running down the hall after the keynote, they'll be here soon :)
[15:07] <Mirv> yeah, plenary went a bit overtime
[15:08] <robru> ah
[15:08]  * slangasek arrives out of breath
[15:09] <lool> all the good seats are taken
[15:09] <lool> sil2100: URL?
[15:09] <lool> (sorry missed it)
[15:09] <Mirv> lool: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/8e384c96c6513553d5f20527f056b191799c341a?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:09] <lool> thanks
[15:09] <Mirv> or anyone else who wants to join the hangout
[15:09] <sergiusens> lool: Mirv think of joining myself, will drop off if other people need to get in
[15:09] <rsalveti> sergiusens: join in
[15:09] <slangasek> reminder: lower third
[15:11] <robru> quaternourly release!
[15:11] <kenvandine> :)
[15:12] <lool> can't enable lower third nor toolbox
[15:13] <slangasek> lool: AIUI it only works to enable it via the toolbox; if you click on the 'lower third' icon directly that sends you on a wild goose chase
[15:13] <lool> (geting an error with lower third and some display issue with the toolbox settings)
[15:13] <slangasek> if you close out the sidebar and reopen the toolbox, maybe that helps?
[15:13] <lool> I initially pressed the toolbox one, but it just shows up a blank settings panel
[15:14] <lool> no luck with removing and readding the extension either
[15:14] <lool> I will switch to google-chrome in the next session
[15:15] <lool> using chromium right now
[15:16] <Mirv> maybe Google has started preferring Firefox over Chromium, works fine here ;)
[15:16] <sergiusens> chromium works fine
[15:18] <xnox> Are there links to that spreadsheet?
[15:18] <xnox> sil2100: ^
[15:18] <slangasek> I think it's linked from the blueprint
[15:18] <xnox> ok.
[15:18] <slangasek> also it's in the pad
[15:18]  * xnox logs into the pad.ubuntu.com
[15:18] <xnox> ah
[15:19] <lool> xnox: in the pad
[15:19] <Mirv> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=3
[15:19] <lool> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=3
[15:19] <xnox> ack.
[15:19] <lool> ah too late
[15:20] <slangasek> so is this session solely informational?  or do we have problems with the current setup that we want to solve yet?
[15:21] <lool> slangasek: it's meant to be informational first, but I think it's also a Q&A and I certainly intend to bring up some issues with current approach  :-)
[15:21] <slangasek> ok
[15:22] <sergiusens> slangasek: I want to bring up how migration to click for some of these could break the stacks
[15:22] <sergiusens> also vanguards in the opposite direction
[15:22] <sergiusens> or what does it really cover
[15:22] <slangasek> sil2100: will there be time for us to discuss these things? :) ^^
[15:25] <xnox> to me a hightlight word that daily-release wizards highlight on would be nice "dailyvanguard" or some such, similar to like "webops" nick alias.
[15:25] <slangasek> Mirv: you may want to turn up your input
[15:25] <asac> lets give him a few more minutes. i think that its pretty useful to get that information at first
[15:26] <Mirv> slangasek: right
[15:26] <sergiusens> their handling the collision
[15:26] <sergiusens> they're
[15:27] <sergiusens> lool: a lot
[15:27] <xnox> slangasek: flying the flag, eh?! =)
[15:27] <slangasek> of course
[15:27] <nuclearbob> agrees
[15:27] <nuclearbob> *agreed
[15:27] <cyphermox> lool you sound like a robot
[15:28] <cyphermox> :)
[15:28] <nuclearbob> and now he looks like one too
[15:28] <cyphermox> I take that bad, it's more like Microsoft Bob
[15:28] <cyphermox> *back
[15:31] <lool> sh8t
[15:33] <cjwatson> I thought this was being addressed by the scheme where autopilot tests could alternatively refer to a bzr branch for click packages
[15:33] <cjwatson> (and exact revision)
[15:33] <cjwatson> Not ideal since it doesn't test things in place in the same way, though
[15:33] <lool> (did I sound ok this time around?)
[15:33] <Mirv> lool: yes
[15:33] <asac> we surely want to contiunue doing daily release testin
[15:33] <asac> on apps
[15:34] <asac> cjwatson: yeah, a bit hacky, but if only thing we need is source, it probably can be used for now
[15:34] <cjwatson> I'm happy-ish for the time being.  A bit concerned about making sure the apparmor profiles are properly in place
[15:34] <asac> right
[15:35] <lool> I think what helps is using some unity api to launch apps from the tests
[15:35] <xnox> cjwatson: is a "test" extension be accepted in click packaging? cause as an app-dev i'd want to package/run/test autopilot tests.
[15:35] <lool> rather than launching apps directly
[15:35] <cjwatson> xnox: Quite a bit would need to be done to make it possible for two different apps to see each other
[15:35] <asac> is it super bad to allow autopilot tests just to be stored in the .click packages in a dir "autopilot/" or so ?
[15:35] <asac> :)
[15:35] <xnox> cjwatson: ack. no-dependency assumption.
[15:36] <asac> not sure how big the .click packages would grow with tests included or if it would do any harm for production
[15:36] <cjwatson> Something like that is probably a better long-term approach, but I think it's fine to do hacks for now
[15:36] <asac> ack. just thought maybe that would even be simpler
[15:36] <asac> to implement. but whatever works for now :)
[15:36] <cjwatson> ah, if we're going to launch things through upstart, that indeed makes sense
[15:37] <asac> fginther: ^
[15:37] <sergiusens> asac: that is the plan we discussed and ironed out
[15:37] <slangasek> lool: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/StackPublish ?
[15:37] <fginther> agreed
[15:37] <sergiusens> asac: there'sa blueprint I can fetch that has all this
[15:37] <asac> sergiusens: so then we can defer the bzr approach for now?
[15:37] <xnox> lool: maybe disable webcam, to get better audio throughput uplink.
[15:37] <asac> if we just store stuff in .click thats good enough
[15:37] <asac> sergiusens: cool. thanks
[15:38] <sergiusens> asac: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-s-image-based-updates
[15:38] <slangasek> I think the current documentation doesn't help much with "outsiders" getting a handle on the process
[15:39] <lool> xnox: is it still bad?
[15:39] <xnox> lool: make a pause every 40s, it kind of drifts & catches up =)
[15:39] <roadmr> haha :) you could also try reducing your bandwidth (slide bar on the top right of the hangout)
[15:40] <sergiusens> asac: we decided we didn't want the tests inside the packages, that was my original idea
[15:40] <sergiusens> that and bundle the unity8 autopilot emulators and sdk ones
[15:40] <xnox> sil2100: is there a bug tracker for ps-jenkins merger?
[15:41]  * xnox 'd like to file and track bugs/issues with daily release.
[15:41] <sergiusens> xnox: merger != than daily release
[15:42] <fginther> There is also the general concern with how community developers would share an application and the tests (i.e. would this be facilitated through qtcreator?)
[15:42] <asac> sergiusens: was there a valid reason to dismiss that approach? feels easiest to realize
[15:42] <xnox> sergiusens: ha =) who is responsible for ps-merger then?
[15:42] <cyphermox> well, most people in the "stack" teams don't have upload rights anyway
[15:42] <sergiusens> asac: the other is already done
[15:42] <asac> aha
[15:42] <fginther> xnox, ps-merge is my team
[15:42] <fginther> er, ps-merger
[15:42] <cyphermox> it's always still possible to upload a package yourself to the archive
[15:43] <sergiusens> asac: phablet-click-test
[15:43] <cyphermox> sil2100: ^^
[15:43] <ev-uds2> If upstream projects don't want to constantly dig through Jenkins, can't we just push notifications of problems to them when problems occur?
[15:43] <fginther> xnox, the main project is lp:jenkins-launchpad-plugin
[15:44] <cyphermox> ev-uds2: that's what we do
[15:44] <xnox> fginther: thanks.
[15:44] <cyphermox> ev-uds2: jenkins isn't doing such a great job of emailing, but we have an escalation process as we look through the issues
[15:45] <cyphermox> ev-uds2: and through that we notify specific people for the team responsible for the package that has issues
[15:45] <cyphermox> lool: +1, the vanguard process probably needs to be better communicated
[15:46] <cyphermox> sil2100: ^ having a channel could help for this, but it does increase the complexity of the communication channels
[15:46]  * slangasek hops off to prep for the next session.  Thanks, all!
[15:47] <Mirv> cyphermox: #ubuntu-desktop?
[15:48] <cyphermox> Mirv: ubuntu-desktop gets a lot of noise. but it could be added to the topic I guess
[15:48] <sergiusens> #ubuntu-desktop doesn't cover the whole of daily release though
[15:48] <cyphermox> sil2100: ^ ^^^^ there are enough people to ack packaging changes...
[15:48] <Mirv> sergiusens: but all the vanguards are part of the team
[15:49] <sergiusens> ubuntu-release feels more appropriate
[15:49] <cjwatson> rather #ubuntu-devel
[15:50] <cyphermox> cjwatson: sorry, yea that's what I meant
[15:50] <asac> sil2100: how reliable is your phone testing done with otto? does that yield the same results that we see on the image dashboard?
[15:50] <cyphermox> but even without resorting to that, me, kenvandine, are core dev on the team
[15:50] <asac> is that something we hsould look at also?
[15:51] <cyphermox> sergiusens: I'm not sure. there are quite a few failures that consistantly happen again, plus while the packages are always built when there is a merge request, it only runs unit tests
[15:52] <cyphermox> sergiusens: the daily-release process additionally runs integration tests before an upload
[15:52] <sergiusens> cyphermox: it runs autopilot tests too
[15:52] <sergiusens> cyphermox: on phones and x86 for autopilot
[15:52] <cyphermox> sergiusens: I haven't seen that ever
[15:52] <cyphermox> but ok
[15:53] <sergiusens> cyphermox: e.g.; http://10.97.2.10:8080/view/Phablet/job/gallery-app-ci/
[15:53] <cyphermox> sergiusens: fair enough
[15:54] <cyphermox> sergiusens: rsalveti: so what are you trying to achieve? a package that ends up sooner in the distro, or getting failure notifications earlier?
[15:54] <lool> I fear fginther talk over sil2100
[15:54] <lool> ah stupid me
[15:54] <sergiusens> cyphermox: remove duplication
[15:55] <rsalveti> yeah
[15:55] <cyphermox> sergiusens: alright, I'm not against that, but it's still a good safeguard to run integration tests just before an actual upload
[15:55] <sergiusens> cyphermox: I'm good with that
[15:56] <cyphermox> sergiusens: ok, then we're agreeing ;)
[15:56] <rsalveti> just further optimization :-)
[15:56] <cyphermox> cool, cool
[15:57] <cyphermox> sil2100: notify all authors of the commits we land via email as we publish the packages?
[15:57] <cyphermox> lool: ^
[15:57] <sil2100> cyphermox: sounds nice
[15:58] <cyphermox> it shouldn't be that hard to do, I'm just concerned about the spam ;D
[15:58] <asac> rsalveti: +1 ... bring cause and effect closer together so the developer CAN care
[15:58] <asac> about images
[15:59] <rsalveti> yup
[16:00] <asac> lool: session is over :)
[16:01] <lool> thanks all for the session
[16:01] <asac> good session. thanks! well done sil2100 and all
[16:01] <lool> cyphermox: I think I mentioned this one
[16:02] <lool> maybe I wasn't specific enough, but that's exactly what I had in mind  :-)
[16:02] <sil2100> Phew
[16:02] <asac> for me youtube is still running
[16:02] <rsalveti> sil2100: thanks!
[16:02] <lool> asac: well the hangout is over now
[16:02] <lool> asac: you're living in the past!   ;-)
[16:02] <nuclearbob> good session, thanks
[16:03] <sil2100> Thanks guys, sorry if I didn't look enough on IRC
[16:03] <asac> lool: how long? did the session finish on time even?
[16:03] <lool> asac: at :01 or so
[16:03] <sil2100> Need to train this 'look at two places at once'
[16:03] <asac> kk
[16:03] <asac> so 60 seconds delay
[16:03] <sil2100> The next session here will be in 2 hours I guess?
[16:03] <lool> sil2100: what works best for me is splitting screen in half vertically, video on left, other browser window on right with pad, IRC below or something
[18:04] <sil2100> We'll be starting the session in a minute
[18:05] <thomi> kgunn: going to join the hawngout?
[18:05] <thomi> well, imagine that I spelt that correctly
[18:10] <chiluk> can you cover how testing is going as far as valve/steam is concerned?  I think that was a big win for us, and it would be horrible to lose that user base.
[18:11] <olli> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/MultiMonitorTesting
[18:18] <istimsak> since Mir will not use proprietary drivers, can it still deliver quality 3D graphics for graphics extensive applications and games?
[18:22] <chiluk> power..
[18:22] <chiluk> Are you guys testing power usage of mir/xmir vs x?
[18:23] <chiluk> that's an important benchmark for laptops.
[18:24] <balloons> is unity8 + mir on the desktop going to be targeted for testing before next cycle?
[18:24] <chiluk> especially if we end up releasing with non-proprietary drivers... lots of the open source drivers currently suck when it comes to power usage.
[18:26] <istimsak> There are some applications that were created for X. Xmir will allow backward compatibility for those apps. When Mir finally take over, will those same apps work for Mir or do that have to be rewritten?
[18:28] <balloons> I realize cycle gets ambiguous, sorry :-p
[18:28] <chiluk> 14.04 will be lts though, is there a plan in place to backport fixes as they become available?
[18:29] <chiluk> perhaps a mir-lts-backport like the kernel has?
[18:29] <chiluk> sorry that may be taking things off-topic
[18:33] <istimsak> You can start by testing the app that come pre-installed on ubuntu releases and the ones that are constantly downloaded.
[18:33] <fginther> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/graphics/openarena/
[18:45] <chiluk> can you comment on the use or non-use of the phoronix test suite?
[18:45] <chiluk> nm... olli just answered it.. lag sucks.
[18:49] <chiluk> do we have any test related to graphical corruption?
[18:49] <cgregan_uds> I'd be happy to help with that when you need it
[18:49] <chiluk> even on x there are a number of bugs related to terminal corruption... or window corruption..
[18:52] <chiluk> sorry for monopolizing irc.
[18:54] <olli> chiluk, welcome, good questions
[18:54] <sil2100> ;)
[18:54] <chiluk> the more work you guys do the less I have to do.
[18:54] <chiluk> thanks.
[18:55] <sil2100> hehe
[18:56] <balloons> sorry I couldn't make most of the session.. logs for me... thanks guys!
[19:06] <sil2100> Starting the session!
[19:06] <karni> Is the video live yet? (not here)
[19:07] <fginther> karni, it should be now
[19:07] <karni> It's on
[19:07] <sil2100> karni: it should be
[19:07] <sil2100> Ok, cool
[19:07] <karni> sil2100: \o/
[19:09] <slangasek> thomi: python3! python3!
[19:09] <slangasek> :)
[19:09] <doanac`> where's the moderator :)
[19:12] <sil2100> ;)
[19:13] <fginther> slangasek, is there a drop dead date for python 2 support?
[19:14] <slangasek> fginther: would be best to confirm with seb128, but TTBOMK the goal is still to get python2 off the Touch images for 13.10
[19:16] <plars> it's there now, because we have to have it to test with
[19:16] <plars> if it's not part of the system images, it won't be easy to install
[19:18] <elopio> https://bugs.launchpad.net/autopilot/+bug/1210260
[19:18] <udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1210260 in Autopilot "forcing the emulator name to be the same as the qml type it's too restrictive" [Undecided,New]
[19:19] <slangasek> plars: well, yes, this is my point - autopilot should be migrated to python3
[19:19] <slangasek> python3 will be on the Touch images for 13.10
[19:23] <balloons_uds> the biggest thing to chat about now is doing proper waits
[19:24] <doanac`> balloons_uds: you want to join the hangout?
[19:24] <balloons_uds> we can't always do a waitFor or eventually, because a click doesn't register sometimes.. What ends up happening is looping for an object, or looping an action for an object
[19:24] <balloons_uds> sure
[19:25] <doanac`> sent you a PM with the link
[19:33] <alesage> iirc there's something like elopio's suggestion in the Selenium web driver: http://docs.seleniumhq.org/docs/04_webdriver_advanced.jsp#implicit-waits
[19:33] <elopio> alesage: yes. The nice thing on selenium is that it never returns None. It throws an exception.
[19:39] <plars> I'm not sure why autopilot should care
[19:40] <plars> right, it's just another device... that's more of a utah or jenkins script problem to talk to it (which may be slightly different if we don't talk to it by adb for some reason)
[19:40] <plars> at the very least, we would probably have greater control
[19:40] <plars> rename autopilot emulators to something else! :)
[19:41] <plars> I think the work we'll need to do will be more in terms of - we have to "poweron" the emulator device via software
[19:41] <plars> but yeah, I think that discussion is outside the context of this
[19:48] <thomi> any other feature requests?
[19:49] <lool> (python3?  :)
[19:49] <lool> j/k
[19:49] <thomi> lool: yeah yeah, it's coming :)
[19:50] <sergiusens> doanac`: is daemon cut for good?
[19:51] <sergiusens> fginther: good one
[19:51] <sergiusens> thomi: evdev
[19:53] <sergiusens> thomi: fginther http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6034052/
[19:54] <sergiusens> thomi: I agree with you
[19:54] <sergiusens> thomi: should be in the sdk
[19:57] <sergiusens> balloons: should be an easy fix
[19:57] <balloons> sergiusens, :-)
[19:59] <sil2100> Thanks guys!
[20:00] <sil2100> See you tomorrow everyone
[22:45] <nyula> hi, anybody there? this site need an count down to those summit,  many people dont understand time-zone conversion
[22:47] <aa> tes
[22:47] <Guest80941> yesyes