=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/foundations-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-foundations-1.html
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/foundations-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-foundations-1.html
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | Phablet Tools roadmap | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21859/foundations-1308-phablet-tools/
* slangasek waves16:03
* ogra_ shores16:03
slangaseksergiusens (et al): https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/28b3927907ca51848ffbadc659fa11ee50731df016:03
sergiusensdoanac`: hey, want to join video?16:05
doanac`sergiusens: sure. will do16:05
sergiusensdoanac`: I want to see your face16:05
cjohnstonhrm.. toolbox doesnt appear working16:10
ogra_works for me16:10
cjohnstonI see that..  I'm not sure why. I just get an empty frame16:11
ogra_id did quite some download stuff for me when i enabled it16:11
udsbotuLaunchpad bug 1192575 in Ubuntu system image "Support for changing channels and reinstalling" [Wishlist,Triaged]16:14
xnoxbarry: please mute your fan =))))16:14
xnoxbarry: or is it hot? =)16:15
barryxnox: it's a warm day, yes :)16:15
* barry muted his mic16:15
xnoxbarry: maybe it's not your fan after all =)16:16
barryxnox: yeah, it seems quiet enough here, but you never know how it's coming over the mic16:17
xnoxsergiusens: mk-sbuild --arch armhf should be able to bootstrap an armhf chroot with qemu-static emulator.16:22
xnoxsergiusens: maybe we should be able to support bootstrapping something like that but with ubuntu-sdk & ubuntu-touch ?16:22
ogra_xnox, i'm already working on rootstock-ng :)16:23
ogra_(which will wrap around live-build)16:23
xnox /o\16:23
xnoxsergiusens: it will be "native" build, but under qemu. Or pre-download last rootfs image =)16:24
xnoxsergiusens: chroot into-that apt-get install *-dev16:24
sergiusensxnox: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/28b3927907ca51848ffbadc659fa11ee50731df016:25
xnoxthere is so much lag. I'm guessing I am 4-5 minutes behind.16:25
slangasekyeah, typical lag to broadcast is at least 2 min :/16:26
asaccant we ship the -dev parts stripped to a separate zip next to the normal image?16:27
asacso you can just combine the two?16:27
ogra_asac, not sure that works with the system-image concept16:27
ogra_but it might indeed be enhanceable i that direction16:27
asacwell, phablet-flash can make it work :)16:27
asaci was hopeing16:27
ogra_thats a matter of producing that img (it wont be a zip) and signing it16:28
asacyeah and i would love to see image testing at upstream merger level... but we need the emulator for that to scale16:28
xnoxsystem-image upgrade should be able to upgrade from normal image to a -dev image.16:30
xnoxif we want to spend time producing those.16:30
ogra_xnox, yeah, but someone still has to produce it16:30
barrywell.  switching channels probably requires a full upgrade16:30
asacas long as if we just get a single -dev .zip that can be applied on top of the others it feels good.16:31
slangasekI think I've failed to understand the use case for a -dev image16:31
slangasekas opposed to just supporting cross -dev environments well and properly16:32
ogra_slangasek, the system image wont allow apt16:32
asaci would really love to get -dev and -dbg parts separated... e.g. not an additional image, but rather an addon16:32
slangasekogra_: obviously - but why do you care about putting -dev packages on the device?16:32
ogra_slangasek, even in writable mode it will be extremely limited since the partition/loopimg size is to small16:32
ogra_so you wont be able to install -dev packages in case you want to work on the plumbing of the image16:33
slangasekstill not seeing why you would do that on the device16:33
ogra_asac, how do you define which dbgsym packages are in that "addon"16:33
asacogra_: the ones in the image?16:33
ogra_asac, putting them all in will be to big to even install it16:33
asacmatching those16:33
asacogra_: yeah dbgsym is a bit of an issue because of size16:34
slangaseklikewise for -dbgsyms, cross-retracing is a better solution (and aligns with what we're already doing for errors.u.c)16:34
asacthe other reason to get the -dev stuff out as a part16:34
asacis taht we can then also use that to cross build against16:34
ogra_dont have the -dev stuff, point people wanting it to cdimage to use the zip, be done16:35
slangasekis that specifically for native click packages?16:35
asacslangasek: yeah i think its for that16:35
asacsecondarily it might also be useful for other folks hacking around the basesystem16:36
slangasekI don't think the second is true16:36
slangasekbecause hacking around the base system implies an awful lot of -dev packages which we wouldn't want to pull in as part of any normal SDK16:37
plarsyeah, we noticed, it's already caused us a few issues on testing that the image size is so small16:37
asacslangasek: so MIR folks for instance are suppsoed to restrict themselves to platform api and a few other things. they could use this in a useful manner. but as i said, lets focus on the primary case for now16:38
asacI really dont like starting a second image16:38
asacand supporting that16:38
ogra_asac, well we have two images today :)16:39
asacat least for now we dont have the capacity16:39
ogra_asac, well we have two images today :)16:39
plarsasac: it sounds to me like ogra_ is suggesting that we use the existing (non-upgrade) images as the dev image16:39
asacogra_: which ones?16:39
ogra_asac, the cdimage armhf-zip and the sysrem-image.u.c image16:39
plarssince they are already easy to add whatever you need to them16:39
asacogra_: right and we are happy to kill the cdimage one16:40
asacwe dont really support system-iamge yet16:40
ogra_asac, that wont happen, it is the input for the system image16:40
asacexplain to me that later16:40
ogra_system image requires it to exist16:40
asaci am sure i dont want a separate image16:40
xnoxslangasek: excluding qt itself.16:40
ogra_asac, we do16:40
asacthat is an official part of our SDK story16:40
ogra_asac, unless we completely start from scratch withj the system images16:40
asacyeah i will stay out :)16:40
asaci think i agree with slangasek's reasoning - for most parts16:41
xnoxsergiusens: so far the deb-src package should be getting inline with the export.tar.gz we publish on phablet.ubuntu.com16:51
ogra_xnox, yay16:51
xnoxsergiusens: once we get there. People can either do apt-get source android or fetch the tarball to hack on your own device.16:51
xnoxogra_: almost the same tree.16:51
ogra_xnox, i know ... but "almost" :)16:52
xnoxogra_: but yeah, me and rsalveti should merge all up to use the _same_ one.16:52
xnoxsergiusens: they can use $ repo tool to checkout and build from that. or to build from a tarball.16:52
xnoxsergiusens: both should be the same.16:52
xnoxsergiusens: repo tool is easier / nicer for developer. Tarball is faster to build as a package.16:53
rsalvetiyeah, once we make both the same, we should be good16:53
* ogra_ would use the UDD branch of the android package 16:53
rsalvetiogra_: right :P16:54
ogra_and send 100MB MPs to xnox  :)16:54
ogra_*that* will test launchpad :)16:54
plarsI don't think it'll take so long, I think we need to rework provision so that we can use it without trying to add anything to the system images (lack of space issue)16:55
plarscurrently it still tries to add utah, which is unnecessary when running in host-based mode16:55
xnoxogra_: launchpad can handle gcc bzr tree, so it should be able to handle anything.16:55
slangasekxnox, rsalveti: what blocks this, other than a git merge from one branch to the other and declaring it The One? :)16:57
xnoxslangasek: rebasing a few patches from the package; trimming more stuff from the export tarball.16:58
xnoxs/package/archive package/16:58
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/foundations-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-foundations-1.html
slangasekxnox: timeline for this to happen?  The longer it goes unmerged...17:00
asacthanks sergiusens. well done! :)17:00
rsalvetislangasek: I changed phablet.u.c to export the tarball already17:00
rsalvetinow I just need to sync with xnox to change the package to use that tarball instead17:00
xnoxslangasek: let me that over this lunch hour?! =)17:01
slangasekok :D17:01
slangasekoh, it's lunchtime!17:01
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | plan the release schedule for the T cycle | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21860/foundations-t-release-schedule/
xnoxinfinity: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-foundations-t-release-schedule18:05
xnoxinfinity: unless you release on Wednesday =)18:06
xnoxinfinity: it can still be 13.0418:07
xnox(the 30th)18:07
skellatJanuary 30, 2014 then?18:08
Laney2 weeks before seems ok to me18:08
xnoxinfinity: are you sure the T schedule is copy&paste of Saucy, it was last modified in 2011, before raring/saucy style milestones.18:08
infinityxnox: Last modified when now?18:10
infinityTSeries/ReleaseSchedule (last edited 2013-08-26 21:27:33 by adconrad18:10
skellatI'm sitting in for Xubuntu if that matters18:10
infinityRight, updated the pas.18:11
skellatHow about we drop Alpha 1/Alpha 2 in favor of Alpha on January 16th?18:15
gQuigs1 week earlier I think is good enough18:18
Laneythere's an extra week on beta 1 -> final beta freeze in T18:19
cjohnstonslangasek: for me knowledge it hasn't been decided18:20
infinityLaney: Which wiki page are you looking at?18:20
skellatPLEASE MOVE UDS18:20
Laneyinfinity: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TSeries/ReleaseSchedule vs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule18:20
skellatUS has elections on November 5th18:20
Laney20 -> 23 vs 19 -> 2118:20
gQuigsso is beta going to pushed to around the 8th, instead of pushed back to march?18:21
skellatEspecially since I have 13 hours to serve as a poll judge on November 5th18:21
slangasekgQuigs: no, everything would be pushed back a week, including the beta18:22
infinityLaney: Yeah, we found the extra week after looking twice.  A whole room full of blind people.  An extra week there for an LTS probably isn't a bad thing, though.18:23
Laneyyes, the lag is irritating18:23
LaneyWe could use the week to have a bigger gap between beta and final freeze, to reflect on anything that comes up there, for example18:26
* Laney gets back tae cookin18:27
infinityOkay, schedule updated to match what was discussed in the session.18:37
infinityPlus, I did s/14.04/14.04 LTS/18:37
slangasekinfinity: \o/18:49
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | Misc Kernel Topics | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21861/foundations-1308-kernel/
ogasawaraslangasek: can you hit me with the hangout when you have it?19:06
xnoxlive \o/19:08
argesbjf: infinity : ack from this end19:16
loolI'm good19:20
loologasawara: keep in mind there's a delay between video stream and IRC19:20
ogasawaraoops, true19:20
looljust got the question of whether there were any questions :-)19:21
ogasawarawell, if there are any questions, ping me :)19:21
loologasawara: anyway all good, didn't have anything to raise  :-)19:21
=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/foundations-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-foundations-1.html

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