=== udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/foundations-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-foundations-1.html === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/foundations-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-foundations-1.html === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | Phablet Tools roadmap | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21859/foundations-1308-phablet-tools/ [16:03] * slangasek waves [16:03] * ogra_ shores [16:03] sergiusens (et al): https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/28b3927907ca51848ffbadc659fa11ee50731df0 [16:04] ty [16:05] doanac`: hey, want to join video? [16:05] sergiusens: sure. will do [16:05] doanac`: I want to see your face [16:05] :-) [16:10] hrm.. toolbox doesnt appear working [16:10] works for me [16:11] I see that.. I'm not sure why. I just get an empty frame [16:11] id did quite some download stuff for me when i enabled it [16:14] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image/+bug/1192575 [16:14] Launchpad bug 1192575 in Ubuntu system image "Support for changing channels and reinstalling" [Wishlist,Triaged] [16:14] barry: please mute your fan =)))) [16:15] barry: or is it hot? =) [16:15] xnox: it's a warm day, yes :) [16:15] * barry muted his mic [16:16] barry: maybe it's not your fan after all =) [16:17] xnox: yeah, it seems quiet enough here, but you never know how it's coming over the mic [16:22] sergiusens: mk-sbuild --arch armhf should be able to bootstrap an armhf chroot with qemu-static emulator. [16:22] sergiusens: maybe we should be able to support bootstrapping something like that but with ubuntu-sdk & ubuntu-touch ? [16:23] xnox, i'm already working on rootstock-ng :) [16:23] (which will wrap around live-build) [16:23] /o\ [16:24] sergiusens: it will be "native" build, but under qemu. Or pre-download last rootfs image =) [16:24] sergiusens: chroot into-that apt-get install *-dev [16:25] xnox: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/28b3927907ca51848ffbadc659fa11ee50731df0 [16:25] =))) [16:25] there is so much lag. I'm guessing I am 4-5 minutes behind. [16:26] yeah, typical lag to broadcast is at least 2 min :/ [16:27] cant we ship the -dev parts stripped to a separate zip next to the normal image? [16:27] so you can just combine the two? [16:27] asac, not sure that works with the system-image concept [16:27] but it might indeed be enhanceable i that direction [16:27] well, phablet-flash can make it work :) [16:27] i was hopeing [16:28] thats a matter of producing that img (it wont be a zip) and signing it [16:28] yeah and i would love to see image testing at upstream merger level... but we need the emulator for that to scale [16:30] system-image upgrade should be able to upgrade from normal image to a -dev image. [16:30] if we want to spend time producing those. [16:30] xnox, yeah, but someone still has to produce it [16:30] well. switching channels probably requires a full upgrade [16:31] as long as if we just get a single -dev .zip that can be applied on top of the others it feels good. [16:31] I think I've failed to understand the use case for a -dev image [16:32] as opposed to just supporting cross -dev environments well and properly [16:32] slangasek, the system image wont allow apt [16:32] i would really love to get -dev and -dbg parts separated... e.g. not an additional image, but rather an addon [16:32] ogra_: obviously - but why do you care about putting -dev packages on the device? [16:32] slangasek, even in writable mode it will be extremely limited since the partition/loopimg size is to small [16:33] so you wont be able to install -dev packages in case you want to work on the plumbing of the image [16:33] still not seeing why you would do that on the device [16:33] asac, how do you define which dbgsym packages are in that "addon" [16:33] ogra_: the ones in the image? [16:33] asac, putting them all in will be to big to even install it [16:33] matching those [16:34] ogra_: yeah dbgsym is a bit of an issue because of size [16:34] likewise for -dbgsyms, cross-retracing is a better solution (and aligns with what we're already doing for errors.u.c) [16:34] right [16:34] the other reason to get the -dev stuff out as a part [16:34] is taht we can then also use that to cross build against [16:35] dont have the -dev stuff, point people wanting it to cdimage to use the zip, be done [16:35] is that specifically for native click packages? [16:35] slangasek: yeah i think its for that [16:35] ok [16:35] primarily [16:36] secondarily it might also be useful for other folks hacking around the basesystem [16:36] I don't think the second is true [16:37] because hacking around the base system implies an awful lot of -dev packages which we wouldn't want to pull in as part of any normal SDK [16:37] yeah, we noticed, it's already caused us a few issues on testing that the image size is so small [16:38] slangasek: so MIR folks for instance are suppsoed to restrict themselves to platform api and a few other things. they could use this in a useful manner. but as i said, lets focus on the primary case for now [16:38] I really dont like starting a second image [16:38] and supporting that [16:39] asac, well we have two images today :) [16:39] at least for now we dont have the capacity [16:39] asac, well we have two images today :) [16:39] asac: it sounds to me like ogra_ is suggesting that we use the existing (non-upgrade) images as the dev image [16:39] ogra_: which ones? [16:39] asac, the cdimage armhf-zip and the sysrem-image.u.c image [16:39] since they are already easy to add whatever you need to them [16:40] ogra_: right and we are happy to kill the cdimage one [16:40] we dont really support system-iamge yet [16:40] asac, that wont happen, it is the input for the system image [16:40] explain to me that later [16:40] system image requires it to exist [16:40] i am sure i dont want a separate image [16:40] slangasek: excluding qt itself. [16:40] asac, we do [16:40] that is an official part of our SDK story [16:40] asac, unless we completely start from scratch withj the system images [16:40] yeah i will stay out :) [16:41] i think i agree with slangasek's reasoning - for most parts [16:51] sergiusens: so far the deb-src package should be getting inline with the export.tar.gz we publish on phablet.ubuntu.com [16:51] xnox, yay [16:51] sergiusens: once we get there. People can either do apt-get source android or fetch the tarball to hack on your own device. [16:51] ogra_: almost the same tree. [16:52] xnox, i know ... but "almost" :) [16:52] ogra_: but yeah, me and rsalveti should merge all up to use the _same_ one. [16:52] right [16:52] yeah [16:52] sergiusens: they can use $ repo tool to checkout and build from that. or to build from a tarball. [16:52] sergiusens: both should be the same. [16:53] sergiusens: repo tool is easier / nicer for developer. Tarball is faster to build as a package. [16:53] yeah, once we make both the same, we should be good [16:53] * ogra_ would use the UDD branch of the android package [16:54] ogra_: right :P [16:54] and send 100MB MPs to xnox :) [16:54] *that* will test launchpad :) [16:55] I don't think it'll take so long, I think we need to rework provision so that we can use it without trying to add anything to the system images (lack of space issue) [16:55] currently it still tries to add utah, which is unnecessary when running in host-based mode [16:55] ogra_: launchpad can handle gcc bzr tree, so it should be able to handle anything. [16:57] xnox, rsalveti: what blocks this, other than a git merge from one branch to the other and declaring it The One? :) [16:58] slangasek: rebasing a few patches from the package; trimming more stuff from the export tarball. [16:58] s/package/archive package/ === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/foundations-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-foundations-1.html [17:00] thanks! [17:00] xnox: timeline for this to happen? The longer it goes unmerged... [17:00] thanks sergiusens. well done! :) [17:00] slangasek: I changed phablet.u.c to export the tarball already [17:00] thanks [17:00] now I just need to sync with xnox to change the package to use that tarball instead [17:01] slangasek: let me that over this lunch hour?! =) [17:01] ok :D [17:01] oh, it's lunchtime! === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | plan the release schedule for the T cycle | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21860/foundations-t-release-schedule/ [18:04] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/508941a4e49fdba6f0cdf553434bf845ba180889 [18:05] o/ [18:05] infinity: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-foundations-t-release-schedule [18:06] infinity: unless you release on Wednesday =) [18:07] infinity: it can still be 13.04 [18:07] (the 30th) [18:07] +1 [18:08] January 30, 2014 then? [18:08] 2 weeks before seems ok to me [18:08] infinity: are you sure the T schedule is copy&paste of Saucy, it was last modified in 2011, before raring/saucy style milestones. [18:10] xnox: Last modified when now? [18:10] TSeries/ReleaseSchedule (last edited 2013-08-26 21:27:33 by adconrad [18:10] I'm sitting in for Xubuntu if that matters [18:11] Right, updated the pas. [18:11] pad* [18:12] HAHAHAHA [18:15] How about we drop Alpha 1/Alpha 2 in favor of Alpha on January 16th? [18:18] 1 week earlier I think is good enough [18:19] there's an extra week on beta 1 -> final beta freeze in T [18:20] slangasek: for me knowledge it hasn't been decided [18:20] Laney: Which wiki page are you looking at? [18:20] PLEASE MOVE UDS [18:20] infinity: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TSeries/ReleaseSchedule vs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule [18:20] US has elections on November 5th [18:20] 20 -> 23 vs 19 -> 21 [18:21] so is beta going to pushed to around the 8th, instead of pushed back to march? [18:21] Especially since I have 13 hours to serve as a poll judge on November 5th [18:22] :) [18:22] gQuigs: no, everything would be pushed back a week, including the beta [18:23] Laney: Yeah, we found the extra week after looking twice. A whole room full of blind people. An extra week there for an LTS probably isn't a bad thing, though. [18:23] yes, the lag is irritating [18:26] We could use the week to have a bigger gap between beta and final freeze, to reflect on anything that comes up there, for example [18:27] * Laney gets back tae cookin [18:37] Okay, schedule updated to match what was discussed in the session. [18:37] Plus, I did s/14.04/14.04 LTS/ [18:49] infinity: \o/ === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Track: Foundations | Misc Kernel Topics | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21861/foundations-1308-kernel/ [19:06] slangasek: can you hit me with the hangout when you have it? [19:06] https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/81ce6e73ff9c8415f5cabc935690fc3115e0bd38 [19:08] live \o/ [19:16] bjf: infinity : ack from this end [19:20] I'm good [19:20] ogasawara: keep in mind there's a delay between video stream and IRC [19:20] oops, true [19:21] just got the question of whether there were any questions :-) [19:21] well, if there are any questions, ping me :) [19:21] ogasawara: anyway all good, didn't have anything to raise :-) === udsbotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-foundations-1 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/foundations-1/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/08/27/%23ubuntu-uds-foundations-1.html