[13:59] <balloons_uds> anyone want to be in the hangout?
[14:01] <balloons_uds> #ubuntu-uds-community-2:https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/36e857893285f3d4925e22cd5b549c15595cd9e0?authuser=1&hl=en
[14:01] <balloons_uds> bah
[14:01] <balloons_uds> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/36e857893285f3d4925e22cd5b549c15595cd9e0?authuser=1&hl=en
[14:02] <balloons_uds> we'll start in a min, please feel free to join
[14:12] <linuxtech> I would like to see someone take the lead on making sure we have latest stable releases of some server software.  SRobie Basak agrees with me and has done some work towards that goal!  ee https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2013-August/006703.html
[14:19] <DanChapman> balloons_uds: with Autopilot soon to be 1.4 is there going to any major changes, like it was from 1.2 to 1.3
[14:21] <linuxtech> I have, see the link.
[14:22] <linuxtech> bind9, mailman and nsd updates this cycle would have been nice...
[14:23] <linuxtech> I worked towards getting bind9 and mailman updated, and with the help of Debian Devs and the Server Team I made some progress, but not as far as I wanted.
[14:23] <balloons_uds> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[14:26] <linuxtech> Features, and security, it's easier for the security team to update newer releases.
[14:27] <DanChapman> :-D cool
[14:27] <linuxtech> I may work on it on a ppa, but I am working towards a project that advocates DNSSEC and DANE.
[14:29] <linuxtech> I understand, I'm talking about using very stable releases of upstream software.
[14:30] <linuxtech> I run the latest releases, unless it has issues...
[14:32] <linuxtech> From what I have seen the past few years, the latest release are better maintained for security issues.
[14:35] <linuxtech> Thank you!
[14:37] <balloons_uds> thanks everyone :-)
[15:01]  * elfy managed to scurry back in time
[15:01] <sethj> :)
[15:03] <elfy> hi marcoceppi
[15:03] <marcoceppi> o/ elfy
[15:05] <arosales> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/meeting/21907/community-s-discussubuntu/ starting shortly
[15:05] <arosales> Hangout is at https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/21cb6e3466ec16b411030aa0c80c5eee720a6c3d?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:07] <marcoceppi> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-community-s-discussubuntu
[15:07] <elfy> marcoceppi: no video yet
[15:08] <marcoceppi> elfy: it'll be up in a few seconds
[15:08] <marcoceppi> there's a lag
[15:08] <elfy> got it
[15:12] <CheeseBurg> Can I get a link to the prototype?
[15:12] <marcoceppi> CheeseBurg: it's in the pad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-community-s-discussubuntu
[15:12] <sethj> CheeseBurg http://ubuntu-discourse.org/
[15:12] <elfy> CheeseBurg: http://ubuntu-discourse.org/
[15:13] <CheeseBurg> Thanks
[15:13] <elfy> jono_: I prefer discuss.ubuntu.com
[15:14] <elfy> bah
[15:14] <elfy> jcastro: I prefer discuss.ubuntu.com
[15:31] <elfy> jcastro: I mailed you back on the 24th re moving the loco stuff
[15:31] <jcastro> yeah but no one else did
[15:31] <elfy> that's because I'm co-ordinating - sorry if that wasn't clear or was as clear as mud :)
[15:32] <elfy> jcastro: effectively if it comes from me - it's coming from the FC
[15:33] <jcastro> ok
[15:35] <jcastro> ok so are there any sections you'd commit to?
[15:35] <jcastro> sorry looking for the mail now
[15:35] <elfy> lol
[15:35] <elfy> certainly the majority of the loco forums - but we need to talk to loco council as well
[15:36] <elfy> the biggest issue atm is how many to do at once
[15:36] <elfy> I can dig out the info on which are being used - so I'd suggest moving on those first
[15:36] <elfy> jcastro: ^^
[15:36] <jcastro> aweesome
[15:37] <elfy> but as I said in the mail - those that are support areas need to stay where they are
[15:37] <elfy> but that's probably about 4 or 5 out of 100 we have
[15:39] <elfy> jcastro: to be a bit more specific - we have 4 groups of them (eg US/Europe ... ) - each have sub forums
[15:40]  * jcastro nods
[15:40] <elfy> so plenty for discourse to look at nesting with
[15:41] <elfy> possibly 80% in english
[15:41] <elfy> I'll get that info for the list when I do it
[15:45] <marcoceppi> questions, comments?
[15:45] <elfy> not at the moment - I'm listening to you all and in a xubuntu meeting :)
[15:46] <elfy> I heard bugs - but see nothing written - that going on the pad?
[15:46] <elfy> marcoceppi: ^^
[15:46] <jcastro> yeah
[15:46] <jcastro> we wrote everything in the pad
[15:46] <elfy> k
[15:46] <jcastro> I'm posting it on the site now
[15:46] <marcoceppi> elfy: I'll be posting the bugs to the charm repo for people to contibute, and a link to those bugs in the pad
[15:46] <elfy> going slightly nuts here concentrating on 3 things at once :)
[15:47] <elfy> ok thanks :)
[16:03] <dholbach> anyone who wants to join the hangout?
[16:04] <dholbach> session notes here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-community-1308-xda-community
[16:08] <jerdog> http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2068
[16:10] <jerdog> did you go away dholbach ?
[16:11] <pulser> lol jerdog. it's your show now!
[16:11] <jerdog> i was talking and then it just froze
[16:11] <pulser> yeah
[16:11] <pulser> I'm watching a confused jerdog
[16:12] <pulser> jerdog, your ad-lib was stopped!
[16:12] <slangasek> heh, and there goes the feed ;)
[16:12] <jerdog> can anyone see me?
[16:13] <slangasek> yes
[16:13] <pulser> when you talk, yes
[16:13] <jerdog> am I actually viewable or has the whole thing gone south?
[16:13] <pulser> it seems to be "voice triggered"
[16:13] <slangasek> you're fine now
[16:13] <pulser> oh, now you are gone lol
[16:13] <pulser> default "blank person" logo now lol
[16:13] <slangasek> when dholbach's connection dropped, the feed cut out since he's the broadcaster
[16:13] <jerdog> ahh - so just my voice huh
[16:13] <slangasek> we can still hear you for the moment ;)
[16:13] <pulser> ahhhh
[16:13] <pulser> I see
[16:14] <pulser> we need an ubuntu open-source web-based hangout system!
[16:15] <slangasek> question: why has no one done an Ubuntu Touch port to the T989 yet ;)
[16:15] <dholbach_> pulser, want to join in on the hangout?
[16:15] <slangasek> we would love an open hangout platform... that's a lot of infrastructure :)
[16:15] <pulser> I have no webcam
[16:15] <pulser> or mic
[16:15] <pulser> lol
[16:15] <pulser> sure :)
[16:15] <jerdog> or a physical entity
[16:16] <slangasek> hah
[16:16] <slangasek> pulser: you mean you don't have a CAMERAPHONE
[16:16] <slangasek> ?
[16:16] <slangasek> ;)
[16:16] <pulser> slangasek, I have many many of them, but never set them up as webcams
[16:16] <pulser> and I don't use gapps on my phones
[16:16] <slangasek> ah, well then
[16:16] <pulser> (closed source, nasty software etc)
[16:16] <pulser> so yeah, it would have to go via PC
[16:20] <pulser> to add to that, if Ubuntu Touch can run android applications, even in modified form, a la Blackberry X, it will significantly help at launch to inspire people to run it
[16:20] <pulser> while the browser model works nicely for simple things, it's difficult to beat the experience of a native app on a device that is "always ready"
[16:27] <dholbach_> anyone else who wants to join the hangout?
[16:27] <ayr_ton> dholbach, not yet
[16:27] <dholbach> any questions or feedback from folks in here?
[16:28] <slangasek> would be happy to join, but am running camera in another session
[16:28] <ayr_ton> dholbach, In xda would be a good thing have some documentation for beginners there. Not just keeping a link for the wiki, but maybe starting a wiki from a discussion from there.
[16:29] <ayr_ton> dholbach, We not have too much guides there. The xda users is more
[16:29] <ayr_ton> familiarize
[16:29] <ayr_ton> d with that aproach.
[16:29] <ayr_ton> approach*
[16:32] <pulser> dholbach, the suggestion/comment was that having a way to run android apps makes a platform more attractive, as they are "buying into" an established platform
[16:32] <pulser> rather than a new platform where the solution is "use a browser to do it"
[16:32] <dholbach> yep, makes sense
[16:32] <pulser> yea
[16:33] <ayr_ton> jerdog, I think not duplicated content. But like start discussing some tutorials there, and start updating the wiki from the discussions.
[16:33] <ayr_ton> or even updating these
[16:34] <ayr_ton> normally we see there a big tutorial in the first post that is updated from times to times.
[16:35] <pulser> using our new dev-DB system, more than one nominated person can update the first post (maximum of 3 people I believe)
[16:35] <pulser> jerdog, it's currently in place ;)
[16:36] <pulser> well
[16:36] <pulser> I have it in a general forum
[16:36] <pulser> so once it's on a device, it seems that you can use it in any of those subforums
[16:36] <ayr_ton> yes, development forums
[16:37] <pulser> jerdog, I am using it in a general forum : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2400234
[16:39] <ayr_ton> jerdog, true story
[16:39] <jerdog> ayr_ton, read it on the internet
[16:43] <pulser> from experience, people will instinctively go to their device forum
[16:43] <pulser> many are not even aware of the existence of other areas, as an XDA device forum could be all thye ever need to read
[16:45] <jerdog> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2336018
[16:46] <ayr_ton> dholbach, I can help with that.
[16:46] <dholbach> ayr_ton, you're a hero! :)
[16:46] <ayr_ton> dholbach, I expect to find heroes there.
[16:49] <ayr_ton> At tf101 forum port, the guys have some fear about test it. Because it is not in the final version.
[16:49] <ayr_ton> Is a feedback that I catch there.
[16:52] <ayr_ton> Not at the moment.
[16:54] <ayr_ton> dholbach, Okay :)
[16:54]  * dholbach hugs jerdog, ayr_ton, pulser - thanks a bunch guys!
[16:54] <pulser> no worries, dholbach
[16:54] <ayr_ton> \o/
[16:55] <jerdog> thank you guys!
[16:55] <jerdog> peace
[18:07] <dholbach> if you want to join in, please let me know and I'll give you the link to the hangout
[18:07] <dholbach> the pad is up at http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-community-1308-app-story-continuous-integration
[18:09] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppStore/Decisions/ContinuousIntegration
[18:09] <alecu> hi!
[18:09] <noodles775> dholbach: I updated ^^ with links to our CI.
[18:10] <dholbach> awesome
[18:10] <dholbach> alecu, noodles775: want to join in?
[18:10] <alecu> dholbach: sure
[18:10] <noodles775> sure
[18:13] <dmj_nova1> So if a single app is bad, that would mess up the image?  Sounds like a rather large issue
[18:13] <sergiusens> dmj_nova1: we do that today for preinstalled apps
[18:13] <dmj_nova1> rather than failing the app and using an older revision
[18:14] <dmj_nova1> of just the app
[18:14] <doanac`> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/
[18:14] <sergiusens> dmj_nova1: that requires an image rebuild
[18:14] <cjohnston> The daily image testing should only show core apps
[18:14] <doanac`> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/image/3809/
[18:14] <sergiusens> dmj_nova1: I'm talking about preinstalled apps here
[18:16] <cjohnston> We will need the emulator to scale this
[18:16] <elopio> I'm also a little confused here. You are talking about end to end tests with autopilot, for the installation of apps through the scope, right?
[18:17] <karni> cjohnston: (sorry for off topic question) where can I learn about UTouch emulator?
[18:17] <cjohnston> no idea
[18:17] <elopio> but on the previous session about scopes they said we will be focusing only on unit tests for the scopes
[18:17] <karni> cjohnston: Do we even have one already? :)
[18:18] <cjohnston> I think one is in the works, but I don't know much more about that
[18:18] <karni> cjohnston: I see, thank you
[18:19] <dholbach> can everyone please help taking notes? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppStore/Decisions/ContinuousIntegration
[18:19] <dholbach> oops sorry
[18:19] <dholbach> wrong link
[18:19] <dholbach> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-community-1308-app-story-continuous-integration
[18:20] <karni> Related (someone might be interested) http://askubuntu.com/questions/259338/is-there-an-ubuntu-touch-emulator-or-a-way-to-install-it-in-a-vm
[18:21] <elopio> testing with autopilot using a well-known app on the real server is not a good idea.
[18:21] <elopio> no isolation, lots of points of failure.
[18:22] <sergiusens> elopio: any better idea?
[18:22] <elopio> sergiusens: a couple. We can have the server running in an lxc, and connect the scope to our local server.
[18:22] <sergiusens> elopio: and how would that make it end to end?
[18:22] <elopio> or, what I would like better, is to split the testing. Test the unity preview in a suite
[18:23] <elopio> test the server in a separate suite.
[18:23] <sergiusens> elopio: I'm not saying don't test individually, just an additional layer, which is end to end
[18:23] <elopio> that will leave a really small end to end suite. We run some tests on the real production server.
[18:25] <elopio> sergiusens: yes. That additional layer, IMO, should run against a local server, not against production. And it should be as small as possible.
[18:26] <cjohnston> yes, test seperatly
[18:26] <cjohnston> the appstore stuff should be completely seperate from installing on the phone and running it
[18:26] <dmj_nova1> On Ubuntu Touch, there will only the the base/pre-installed image and click packages?  Is that correct?
[18:28] <cjohnston> Testing stuff across the internet provides alot of possiblity for failures that shouldnt be failures.. (internet blips)
[18:28] <elopio> dholbach: is there still room in the hangout?
[18:29] <dholbach> elopio, sure
[18:30] <sergiusens> everytime dholbach talks my google plugin goes wild
[18:31] <sergiusens> http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uds-1308-community-1308-app-story-continuous-integration/latest alecu
[18:31] <dholbach> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-community-1308-app-story-continuous-integration
[18:31] <dholbach> sergiusens, really? :)
[18:31] <alecu> thanks
[18:31] <sergiusens> dholbach: yeah :-)
[18:31] <noodles775> dholbach: same for me. Very choppy when you talk (sometimes)
[18:31] <dholbach> oops
[18:31] <dholbach> let me try to remove the video
[18:34] <alecu> elopio: you are moving too much and I'm getting dizzy!
[18:34] <alecu> :-)
[18:35]  * alecu fetches a fixed chair for elopio
[18:39] <elopio> alecu: it's just that I want to dance@
[18:40] <alecu> :-)
[18:41] <fginther> dholbach, I got very little of that
[18:41] <dholbach> sorry :-(
[18:41] <dholbach> damn, my internet sucks
[18:41] <dholbach> I was just trying to ask how we best structure this
[18:41] <dholbach> we have representatives from all teams here
[18:42] <dholbach> which tests do we have already? which are we missing?
[18:42] <cjohnston> sergiusens: ^
[18:42] <dholbach> can we prioritise those tests?
[18:42] <dholbach> what kind of integration tests can we build on top of that?
[18:43] <balloons> it might be helpful to name all the teams and pieces, and show the workflow a bit
[18:43] <dholbach> yes
[18:43] <dholbach> and where touch points are between the teams/projects
[18:44] <balloons> exactly, let's get that now
[18:44] <cjohnston> Get the testing running manually before trying to automate it
[18:44] <dholbach> can everyone take an action to start listing the LP projects their teams are working on and which tests they already have?
[18:46] <noodles775> dholbach: here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppStore/Decisions/ContinuousIntegration
[18:46] <dholbach> yep, that'd be great
[18:47] <dholbach> so I just added a couple of suggested work items to the pad
[18:47] <dholbach> (sorry for not being there in the hangout - seems my connection is really bad - I can hear/see you all very well)
[18:48] <dholbach> does that make sense so far?
[18:51] <dholbach> do these work items make sense?
[18:51] <dholbach> [everyone] document which projects their team works on and which tests are already there
[18:51] <dholbach> [everyone] figure out which high-profile tests are still missing and file bugs for them
[18:51] <dholbach> [everyone] bring up on the mailing list which integration points with other projects there are
[18:52] <alecu> how do you spell it? ssg?
[18:52] <noodles775> sst - selenium simple test
[18:53] <dholbach> sergiusens, in terms of "having click packages working on the device" - are there tests you'd suggest having? (given the breakage in the past ;-))
[18:54] <sergiusens> dholbach: everything is set to test the individual apps
[18:54] <sergiusens> dholbach: well, missing the autopilot thing to launch from upstart
[18:54] <dholbach> awesome
[18:55] <dholbach> who would be willing to join a follow-up call to put together an actual list of tests, so we can start filing bugs on all the individual projects?
[18:55] <noodles775> sure
[18:55] <dholbach> anyone else?
[18:56] <dholbach> balloons, ^ can you ask?
[18:56] <balloons> ohh sure.. when?
[18:56] <dholbach> just in the call
[18:56] <dholbach> I#ll mail everyone who's interested
[18:58]  * elopio raises the hand.
[18:58]  * alecu too
[18:58] <dholbach> thanks!
[18:58] <dholbach> all right... I think with the follow-up call we're good to go :)
[18:59] <dholbach> what a disaster this connection is :-(((((
[18:59] <dholbach> sorry about that
[18:59] <elopio> dholbach: add vila to the invitation, please.
[18:59] <dholbach> will do
[18:59] <noodles775> dholbach: has it been like that all day? (it wasn't too bad at the end)
[19:00] <dholbach> noodles775, no not all - it worked fine, then it dropped all the time (back at home), now I moved to my brother's place and I have issues here too it seems