[00:56] <bluesabre> Unit193: any idea how to fix binary-without-manpage lintian error?  I've added a mugshot.1 and added dh_installman to debian/rules
[01:03] <micahg> bluesabre: for new upstream versions, a debian dir debdiff is useful so taht we insure using the proper upstream tarball
[01:06] <bluesabre> micahg: just a debdiff on debian/ ?
[01:06] <micahg> yeah
[01:07] <micahg> though in this case it's just a changelog
[01:07]  * micahg will just use that
[01:07] <bluesabre> ok, I'll keep that in mind for future uploads
[01:15] <skellat> micahg: Is it possible to upload the latest xubuntu-docs for saucy as well as the SRU for precise?
[01:16] <micahg> let me see how far I get with the rest
[01:16] <Unit193> bluesabre: ...Your rules file is weird.  Anywho, put an override in installman and that part should be good. (Unless I'm wrong, but tested working.)
[01:16] <skellat> micahg: No problemo
[01:16]  * skellat wanders off to see what the cat is crying about
[01:17] <bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, its weird because I was getting an error which no google results answered
[01:18] <Unit193> Had to install python-distutils-extra before -S would even work, sooo.....
[01:22] <Unit193> What error?
[01:26] <bluesabre> not sure, already forgot
[01:26] <bluesabre> Unit193: this? http://dpaste.com/1358510/
[01:27]  * bluesabre is still quite new to this
[01:33] <Unit193> As the to manual, yes.  Can't be included with the application itself?
[01:34] <micahg> ochosi: any progress on getting more shimmer patches accepted upstream into gmusicbrowser?
[01:36] <micahg> ochosi: is there a rebased shimmer-layouts patch somewhere against 1.10?
[01:39] <bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, I'll be adding that next
[01:52]  * micahg is uploading gtk-theme-cnofig to mentors
[01:52] <bluesabre> please do gtk-theme-config instead
[01:52] <bluesabre> ;)
[01:57] <micahg> https://mentors.debian.net/package/gtk-theme-config \o.
[02:00] <bluesabre> o/
[02:01] <bluesabre> you did that in a few minutes
[02:01] <bluesabre> I've been working on mugshot for 2 days
[02:01] <bluesabre> http://mentors.debian.net/package/mugshot
[02:02] <micahg> I already had it ready :)
[02:02] <Unit193> I pretended to help.
[02:02] <micahg> I thought I didn't have a key, but I had that too
[02:02] <bluesabre> keeping us in suspense :D
[02:02] <bluesabre> Unit193 helped more than I worked
[02:03] <bluesabre> because I would have struggled forever
[02:06] <Unit193> I not nearly as good as Mica, I don't actually program. :P
[02:24] <micahg> knome: I might have asked before, but do you have any objection to a Xubuntu packaging team on Alioth?
[02:24] <micahg> I'd like to get anything that pkg-xfce won't take that's orphaned or owned by one of our uploaders under that
[02:25] <micahg> we can be a model for other flavors :)
[02:27] <bluesabre> +1
[02:27] <micahg> bluesabre: looking at your settings merge now 
[02:27] <bluesabre> cool
[02:27] <bluesabre> you're on a roll!
[02:28] <micahg> bluesabre: oh, hrm, was it just that one line for the keyboard, maybe I'll just squash the commits then, I thought it was more than that
[02:28]  * micahg will brb in about 20 min
[02:31] <bluesabre> yeah, the majority of the commit was updated comments template
[03:09] <micahg> bluesabre: oh, in the future, a changelog entry would be useful as well
[03:09] <micahg> bluesabre: want to add one quickly or should I just wing it?
[03:13] <bluesabre> micahg: for clock & keyboard?
[03:14] <micahg> yeah, for what you changed
[03:14] <bluesabre> yeah, just a sec, I'll add a simple one
[03:18] <bluesabre> micahg: pushed
[03:19] <bluesabre> heading to bed now, if there are any other issues, let me know
[03:19] <bluesabre> thanks micahg!
[03:19] <bluesabre> oh, and let me know if theres anything you need for mugshot
[03:20] <skellat> Grumble...LP Bug #1190406 is a package that is 2/3 broken now and though the remaining 1/3 still works it isn't the obvious use case based on the description.  I think it might be good to not seed this package for 13.10.
[03:22] <micahg> is there a new upstream version I can throw in quickly?
[03:23] <micahg> bluesabre: please leave changelogs UNRELEASED in bzr so other things can be easily added
[03:23] <micahg> I'm fixing this one
[03:24] <bluesabre> oh, woops
[03:24] <bluesabre> thanks micah
[03:30] <micahg> done
[03:46] <micahg> skellat: don't particularly want to fight with the SRU before bed, let's try another night
[03:46] <skellat> skellat: Don't blame ya
[03:46] <Unit193> micahg: PTS only had a patch about homepage, and no new upstream.  Good night.
[03:46] <micahg> anything easy I've missed?
[03:54] <skellat> I filed a merge to take a package off the seed so we're not shipping the broken thingy mentioned in LP Bug 1190406
[03:55] <skellat> https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.saucy/+merge/182538
[03:56] <micahg> skellat: +1, taking a look
[03:56] <micahg> I might have the package removed from saucy
[03:56] <skellat> I'm also trying to engage with the Debian Maintainer to see what can be do
[03:56] <micahg> http://code.google.com/p/microblog-purple/issues/detail?id=269
[03:56] <skellat> Yeah, I'm the one who filed that!
[03:57] <skellat> The StatusNet functionality still works so 1 out of 3 main components works.  Twitter access and Identica access no longer work.
[03:58] <skellat> I'd say don't ship it by default but leave it in the archive if somebody really, really needs it for their independent StatusNet instance.
[03:59] <skellat> I filed a similar merge for gilir to help Lubuntu too since Xubuntu and Lubuntu are the only ones seeding the package
[03:59] <skellat> https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.saucy/+merge/182539
[04:00] <micahg> ok, I'll leave that for him
[04:01] <Unit193> skellat: You filed a dupe. ;)
[04:01] <Unit193> https://code.google.com/p/prpltwtr/issues/detail?id=88 the other project.
[04:02] <skellat> Unit193: Yeah, but nobody in the competing project wanted to touch it with a bargepole
[04:03] <skellat> Cameron Kaiser had to do a ton of refactoring to get ttytter to work right with Twitter API 1.1 to the point that he had to break StatusNet compatibility in the end
[04:05] <skellat> And ttytter is written purely in Perl
[04:09] <micahg> skellat: uploaded
[04:10]  * micahg -> bed
[04:10] <skellat> Goodnight micahg
[04:11] <micahg> I forgot, I still have some seed hacking to do...
[04:11] <micahg> not tonight though
[04:18]  * skellat wanders off to get ready for bed
[07:02] <ochosi> micahg: no, i spent a lot of time on getting more shimmer-patches into upstream and in the end the merge didn't happen / wasn't accepted. our stuff still works in the latest release, i'm also maintaining a kinda daily PPA with gmb from git with out patches so there shouldn't be a problem
[08:29] <olbi> hello :)
[08:29] <knome> olbi, next question is: what content?
[08:29] <knome> we relatively recently updated it
[08:30] <knome> i'm wondering if what you are thinking would be more suitable for the docs
[08:32] <olbi> hmm, there isn't update about Xubuntu 12.04.3 LTS on site :] it could be add by me for example :)
[08:32] <knome> so are you referring to news articles?
[08:33] <olbi> yes, news that are very simple and you don't want to spent time for it
[08:33] <olbi> you send me info and I add this or I found something
[08:34] <knome> that's possible
[08:34] <knome> i would say just be in touch with the developers
[08:34] <olbi> yes, irc and mailing lists
[08:34] <knome> you can draft news in pads or sth, and people with permissions can then publish them
[08:35] <olbi> yes :)
[08:39] <olbi> I'm at the cocpit, logged with Ubuntu ID
[09:44] <knome> sent mail to -devel, team members please read
[09:50] <bluesabre> D:
[09:51] <bluesabre> Making us read an email that makes us read even more?
[09:51] <knome> yeah ;)
[09:51] <ochosi> yeah, sneaky bastard! :p
[09:51] <knome> sneaky, aye?
[09:52] <knome> it's not too long though
[09:53] <knome> 5 minute thing if you use meld
[09:55] <elfy> not going to have time to look - and I'm not going to be about for a meeting at 15:00
[09:56] <knome> elfy, if you read the mail, you'll get a grasp what you should've read :)
[09:56] <elfy> but if the only major thing is "only the Xubuntu team (LP ~xubuntu-team) should be able vote for a new project lead" that's fine by me
[09:56] <knome> nothing fishy there, no unannounced changes :)
[09:56] <knome> that's it
[09:56] <knome> but we're probably not *voting* today anyway, so...:)
[09:56] <elfy> knome: then you can have my proxy +1
[09:57] <elfy> ok - ochosi doesn't need to witness my proxy +1 then :)
[09:57] <knome> hehe
[09:57] <bluesabre> except the line that says the XPL is now more of a dictator position
[09:57] <bluesabre> ;)
[09:57] <knome> O:)
[09:57] <elfy> that's fine by me also bluesabre :)
[09:58] <knome> well i'm checking if you are awake!
[09:58] <bluesabre> haha
[09:58] <knome> (also makes other changes pass easier)
[09:58] <bluesabre> just one less thing we'll have to vote for in the future, so +1 here
[09:58] <knome> (also, the XPL is kind of a dictator anyway, so...)
[09:58] <elfy> :)
[09:58] <knome> or can be.
[09:58] <knome> that's up to the XPL and his personality.
[10:00] <elfy> indeed
[10:09] <ffio> where i can browse the source code for xubuntu ? searched in launchpad but it's not there for raring.
[10:09] <knome> ffio, "the source code for xubuntu" is a rather abstract concept.
[10:09] <knome> what are you looking for?
[10:10] <ffio> knome: i wanted to browse the source code of xfce4 i feel like to contribute something.
[10:10] <knome> http://git.xfce.org/ is all the upstream xfce source code
[10:11] <ffio> so wanted to know the structure of xubuntu-desktop package and how it is organized. which dep it pulls etc etc..
[10:11] <knome> apt-cache show xubuntu-desktop
[10:12] <ffio> knome: if i want to change any of those depends where should i go ?
[10:12] <knome> change in what way?
[10:13] <ffio> i.e. i want to add or delete some depeds package.
[10:13] <knome> in where?
[10:13] <knome> are you saying you want to remaster a new ISO?
[10:13] <ffio> under xubuntu-desktop
[10:13] <knome> your question doesn't make sense as is
[10:14] <ffio> knome: yeah 
[10:14] <knome> !remastersys
[10:14] <knome> !remaster
[10:15] <ffio> knome: can i pm you ?
[10:16] <knome> you can if you need to, but if you're just asking for further information on the same issue, it'd be better to ask on the channel
[10:17] <ffio> ok
[13:25] <smartboyhw> knome, um, I found http://thexubuntuzone.blogspot.hk/2013/08/xubuntu-will-be-upgrading-its-graphic.html
[13:25] <smartboyhw> (from G+)
[13:25] <smartboyhw> You'd better clarify...
[13:40] <smartboyhw> ochosi, congrats on light-locker's release:)
[13:46] <knome> smartboyhw, known. comments on G+ are disabled, the blog entry is very unclear so i see no reason to comment on that
[13:47] <ochosi> smartboyhw: thanks
[13:49] <skellat> knome: I am very likely to be a little late to the meeting as I have to pick Mom up from cardiac rehab.  I should be available by no later than 1515 UTC at the utmost worst.
[13:49] <knome> skellat, no problem
[13:50] <GridCube> the blog entry is vague at best
[13:52] <OvenWerk1> GridCube: You are being excedingly gracious in that comment...
[13:52] <smartboyhw> heh
[13:52] <GridCube> i mean the title mentions xubutnu, and once in the first paragraph but then it talks about anything else
[14:18] <knome> bluesabre, apparently new catfish broke xubuntu and ubuntu studio
[14:18] <knome> OvenWerk1, ^
[14:18] <Unit193> Hah.
[14:18] <smartboyhw> knome, no
[14:18] <smartboyhw> The version in the CD builds are 0.08.0
[14:18] <smartboyhw> *0.8.0
[14:19] <smartboyhw> The archive version is 0.8.1-0ubuntu1
[14:19] <smartboyhw> So, not.
[14:19] <knome> hey skaet :)
[14:19] <smartboyhw> ^ rare visitor:P
[14:20] <skaet> knome,  hiya knome, smartboyhw.  :-)  expect me around a bit more for the next couple of weeks.  :-)
[14:20] <smartboyhw> knome, restarted a rebuild for Ubuntu Studio to check on 0.8.1
[14:21] <smartboyhw> skaet, yeah, we miss you:P
[14:21] <skaet> smartboyhw, thanks.
[14:22] <smartboyhw> knome, 0.8.1 has fixed the issue
[14:22] <smartboyhw> So, no need to worry;)
[14:24] <knome> skaet, so do you have some release team duties this cycle? :)
[14:24] <smartboyhw> knome, fidn the answer at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseTaskSignup :)
[14:25] <knome> smartboyhw, have you heard of the thing called "small talk"?
[14:25] <smartboyhw> knome, um, I have heard of "smalltalk" as programming lang
[14:26]  * knome suggests some reading for smartboyhw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_talk
[14:26] <smartboyhw> knome, sorry:P
[14:30] <ali1234> i seem to have found a reproducable crash bug in the main menu
[14:53] <skellat> knome: If I'm not back in time, you've got my proxy +1 on the changes so far to the Strategy Document.  If you could drop the bug handling item to the end it would be appreciated.
[14:53]  * skellat heads out the door yet again
[14:54] <knome> skellat, i'll do that.
[14:57]  * elfy makes it back in time 
[14:57] <knome> cool
[14:59] <GridCube> meeting?
[14:59] <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
[14:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 28 15:00:10 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:59] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[14:59] <knome> #topic Items carried on
[15:00] <knome> #action     ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so 
[15:00] <meetingology> ACTION: ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
[15:00] <knome> huh, ok
[15:00] <knome> #undo
[15:00] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x322d510>
[15:00] <knome> #action skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so 
[15:00] <meetingology> ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
[15:00] <GridCube> :D
[15:00] <knome> brb, phone...
[15:01] <GridCube> no prob
[15:01] <knome> ok, i'm back
[15:01] <knome> #topic Team updates
[15:01] <knome> ochosi, bluesabre: did you have something?
[15:02] <knome> others, micahg?
[15:02] <knome> some uploading action at least i think
[15:02] <knome> #info ochosi has been preparing an updated artwork package for uploading later
[15:03] <GridCube> #info https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/DesktopOfTheWeek has been updated whit the first few desktops proposed
[15:04] <knome> yeah...
[15:04] <knome> #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
[15:04] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
[15:04] <knome> GridCube, if i have time after the meeting, i'll start on that right away.
[15:05] <GridCube> we will keep moderating and accepting submissions, but if we start anouncing and all that we could start to make some noise in g+ and other social outlets
[15:05] <GridCube> good nose
[15:05] <GridCube> s/nose/noise
[15:05] <knome> hehe
[15:05] <GridCube> :D
[15:05] <knome> micahg-work, wanted to send some updates, or should we move on?
[15:06] <micahg-work> hrm?
[15:06] <micahg-work> I didn't see the first part
[15:06] <knome> ah
[15:06] <knome> we're on team updates
[15:07] <knome> did you do something during the week after last thu? :)
[15:07] <micahg-work> Catfish 0.8.1 in last night (thanks bluesabre), dropped pidgin-microblog from the seeds since twitter is broke (thanks skellat), gtk-theme-config is on mentors awaiting sponsorship
[15:07] <knome> micahg-work, can you prefix with #info so the bot picks it up? thanks
[15:08] <micahg-work> #info Catfish 0.8.1 in last night (thanks bluesabre), dropped pidgin-microblog from the seeds since twitter is broke (thanks skellat), gtk-theme-config is on mentors awaiting sponsorship
[15:08] <knome> do we need to do something for the gtk-theme-config to get it in before FF, or do you think it'll be picked up?
[15:08] <micahg-work> yeah, I need to follow it through to make sure it's sync'd to Ubuntu
[15:09] <knome> okay, thanks
[15:09] <ochosi> knome: sorry, kinda on and off now
[15:09] <knome> anything else?
[15:09] <ochosi> true that, i prepared the artwork-upload
[15:09] <knome> ochosi, if you could be on for like 5-10 mins, would be good...
[15:09] <micahg-work> Was hoping that ochosi had a rebased patch for gmusicbrowser 1.1.10
[15:10] <knome> ochosi, can you finish that ^ off for micahg-work today?
[15:10] <micahg-work> I can do an artwork upload tonight
[15:10] <ochosi> mr_pouit said he'll take care of it
[15:10] <micahg-work> #info added clock and keyboard settings for greeter to our defaults (thanks bluesabre)
[15:10] <micahg-work> ah, excellent
[15:10] <GridCube>  :D thats awesome!
[15:11] <knome> #action mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later
[15:11] <meetingology> ACTION: mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later
[15:11] <ochosi> micahg-work: are you sure that our patch needs to be modified? afaik it should still apply on top of gmb1.1.10
[15:11] <knome> #nick mr_pouit 
[15:11] <micahg-work> ochosi, it doesn't apply
[15:12] <ochosi> micahg-work: strange, i'll take a look a little later today
[15:12] <knome> ochosi, thanks!
[15:12] <knome> #topic Announcements
[15:12] <knome> #info No announcements.
[15:12] <knome> #topic New and emerging items
[15:12] <knome> #subtopic Inclusion of Xfce 4.11 components in Xubuntu 13.10 
[15:13] <knome> so, we were in touch with lionel about these
[15:13] <knome> and the bottom line was "you should be cautious", but he said it'd be okay to cherry-pick the display dialog if we had the time to do that
[15:13] <knome> i'd really like that in, as well as the gtk3-indicators-on-gtk2-panel (which ochosi has been preparing)
[15:13] <knome> any possibility we could squeeze them in?
[15:14] <ochosi> that's micahg-work's call i guess :)
[15:14] <knome> micahg-work, would you have time/any motivation to do that?
[15:14] <ochosi> the icon-loading problem has been solved yesterday (if you remember the known issues list)
[15:14] <knome> i've argumented for the display dialog before (i can reargument if needed, but would rather not to save time)
[15:15] <micahg-work> yeah, I can see about 4.11, I'd like the gtk3 indicators on gtk2 panel patch so we can drop the gtk2 indicator stack (at least from our stuff) and get an extra 6 months of testing on that for the LTS
[15:15] <knome> i don't think we need to pull in all of 4.11
[15:15] <micahg-work> ochosi, I didn't see 2.0 of the indicator plugin
[15:16] <knome> i'd really like the display dialog, and that's about all of my wishlist from 4.11 for now.
[15:16] <micahg-work> knome, I wouldn't pull in all of 4.11, just the settings piece and the dialog (I forget which components those are ATM)
[15:16] <knome> but that does need some cherry-picking
[15:16] <knome> great
[15:16] <ochosi> micahg-work: yeah, for some reason the download-tag hasn't appeared on git.xfce yet, but there's a release-email. i can ask andrzejr what went wrong with the tarball
[15:16] <ochosi> (as soon as he's online)
[15:17] <knome> #action micahg to see about 4.11 settings/display-dialog and the panel patch for gtk3 indicators in gtk2 panel
[15:17] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg to see about 4.11 settings/display-dialog and the panel patch for gtk3 indicators in gtk2 panel
[15:17] <ochosi> there's even a "preparing for release"-commit (http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=6570cb8d49105800b57c6aeabd069d19f722ffe9)
[15:17] <micahg-work> ochosi, do you know if it'll work with stock 4.10 in case we decide to revert the patch?
[15:17] <knome> want to dig deeper in this issue, or shall we move along?
[15:18] <ochosi> micahg-work: i'm not sure, i haven't tested the 2.0 plugin with the 4.10 panel from master
[15:18] <ochosi> at least it's not designed to work, but it could
[15:18] <micahg-work> hrm :(
[15:18] <ochosi> we also need libxfce4ui compiled against gtk3 (so we have gtk2 + gtk3 of that lib)
[15:19] <ochosi> sry folks, i gotta run, i'll be back a bit later
[15:19] <micahg-work> well, then only panel change we're planning is the gtk3 patch, the rest is 4.10
[15:19] <ochosi> feel free to ping me if you need more infos on that
[15:19] <ochosi> yeah, the rest remains 4.10
[15:19] <knome> #action micahg and ochosi to work on the panel patch together
[15:19] <meetingology> ACTION: micahg and ochosi to work on the panel patch together
[15:19] <ochosi> only the panel has to be built from the andrzejr/wrapper3 branch
[15:19] <ochosi> bbl
[15:20] <knome> #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing 
[15:20] <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-August/009312.html
[15:20] <knome> anybody has questions about that (we'll vote later, on the next meeting)
[15:20] <elfy> no questions from me
[15:20] <GridCube> i don't particularly fancy the changes on who can vote
[15:21] <GridCube> even if -users don't vote they should still have the option to.
[15:21] <alpacaherder> Nothing looked objectionable in the diff shown in Launchpad
[15:21] <knome> for what reason?
[15:21] <GridCube> democracy
[15:21] <knome> but *buntu* isn't a democracy
[15:21] <GridCube> no, but we do serve our users
[15:22] <knome> sure... and i'd say the team knows best who to pick as the new project lead
[15:22] <knome> if we let the users pick, they can pick any arbitrary person with the coolest or shortest nick, for example
[15:22] <micahg-work> +1 to the vote change
[15:22] <knome> (like "knome")
[15:22] <micahg-work> but -team needs to be maintainable by more than just the XPL
[15:23] <GridCube> probably yes, in any case the proposed leader has to be a known person from -team
[15:23] <Unit193> I'd think you should clearify what -team is, no?
[15:23] <micahg-work> meritocracy + checks and balances
[15:23] <GridCube> well yes i would agree to that micahg-work 
[15:23] <knome> micahg-work, in practice it is, XPL along with team leads are the ones that nominate people
[15:24] <micahg-work> knome, I'd like it to be policy as well :)
[15:24] <knome> micahg-work, but also in practice, XPL is the only one with admin rights on the LP team
[15:24] <knome> giving those to others would bring other problems
[15:25] <micahg-work> knome, XPL should be admin of the team that admins -team
[15:25] <knome> micahg-work, the SD says that -team membership is gained with continuing contributions to teams
[15:25] <GridCube> yes you see thats the people who should be elected, people who are known and work in the team
[15:25] <micahg-work> knome, I"ll have to review the docs + changes and respond at a later time
[15:25] <knome> micahg-work, rather than over-complicating it, i'd just count on people doing sensible choices
[15:26] <GridCube> but the voters should be anyone from -users
[15:26] <knome> micahg-work, ultimately, the SD has a veto vote
[15:26] <knome> micahg-work, which can be overruled by CC intervention in the worst case
[15:26] <micahg-work> I don't think random users should have a say in who XPL is since that opens it up to be more of a popularity contest
[15:27] <knome> i agree with micahg-work 
[15:27] <knome> even if the nominees were from -team, that doesn't warrant the decision is an informed one
[15:27] <GridCube> i like the rest of the modifications though, simplifying the text is a good idea.
[15:27] <micahg-work> if people are part of the project, they can get -team membership (and maybe that should be clearer somewhere)
[15:27] <knome> (if -users vote)
[15:27] <GridCube> knome, probably not, thats true.
[15:27] <knome> micahg-work, that is pretty clear on the SD imo, but feel free to propose changes
[15:28] <micahg-work> I think the team leads should decide on the slate for XPL
[15:28] <micahg-work> people can nominate themselves
[15:28] <micahg-work> knome, yes, but who reads the SD :)
[15:28] <knome> micahg-work, hah.
[15:28] <knome> micahg-work, i hope more people now that it is much more readable
[15:29] <micahg-work> I really should draft a response to all this, but won't get to this until the weekend at the earliest
[15:29] <knome> but point taken.
[15:29] <knome> micahg-work, that's fine, we're not taking any decisions now
[15:30] <micahg-work> I would say possibly something about -team membership on the contributing to Xubuntu page, it's akin to "Xubuntu membership"
[15:30] <micahg-work> (and if it's on there, I apologize, I don't think I've looked at the page in a while)
[15:30] <knome> micahg-work, sounds like something i can agree with :)
[15:31] <knome> no, it's not specifically mentioned
[15:31] <knome> but i'm not sure if it should be on the contribute frontpage
[15:31] <knome> but we can discuss that later
[15:31] <micahg-work> maybe a new "Becoming a part of Xubuntu" section
[15:32] <knome> sure
[15:32] <knome> #subtopic Ideas for using the project money 
[15:32] <knome> we have about 250 euros. ideas?
[15:34] <knome> ok...
[15:34] <skellat> Umm
[15:34]  * knome proposes to use it on the knome beer fund in the lack of better ideas
[15:34] <knome> :P
[15:34] <skellat> Set up disc distributions?
[15:34] <knome> i'm not sure if that's sensible
[15:35] <skellat> Use it for a bounty on something we want fixed/built?
[15:35] <knome> we could print flyers as well, but all the money would just *go*
[15:35] <micahg-work> knome, can use it as seed money for merchandise to generate more money?
[15:35] <skellat> +1
[15:35] <knome> micahg-work, we can't make money out of merchandise.
[15:35] <knome> micahg-work, canonical license agreement.
[15:36] <knome> that's the thing; we should just use it so it's gone. :)
[15:36]  * smartboyhw suggests for using money to sponsor Xubuntu people to meetings
[15:36] <smartboyhw> That's a usual way
[15:36] <micahg-work> 250 euro isn't much to do something with
[15:36] <smartboyhw> Not sure 250 euros do anyway
[15:36] <knome> but rather than throwing it all towards a printer (the business, not the machine), i'd spend it to enable the team to do something
[15:36] <ali1234> use it to buy prizes and then hold a contest of some sort - would perhaps go further than directly sponsoring specific work
[15:36] <skellat> smartboyhw: What sort of meeting do you have in mind?  UbuCon at Ohio Linux Fest?
[15:37] <smartboyhw> skellat, not sure, I'm just brainstorming for you guys
[15:37] <skellat> Alrighty
[15:37] <knome> for example, if we decided we want google hangouts for next vUDS, we could buy headsets for those who don't have one
[15:37] <chilicuil> ali1234: +1
[15:37] <knome> and we'd be able to buy a few
[15:37] <knome> instead of a pile of paper
[15:38] <skellat> Or invest in a server to run Jitsi/XMPP so smartboyhw can be included in such discussions since he's locked out of Google Hangouts?
[15:38] <ali1234> that's a good idea. nothing is worse than video calling someone with the world's worst mic + webcam
[15:38] <smartboyhw> skellat, huh
[15:38] <smartboyhw> You'll do it for Noskcaj:)
[15:38] <knome> i'd rather invest 5 minutes of my time to create him/them sock puppet accounts that tell they are 18.
[15:39] <skellat> knome: That works too
[15:39]  * smartboyhw hates lying about age as I said
[15:39] <Unit193> Well, issue is that G+ hangouts simply seemed to be the least bad option.
[15:39] <knome> contests are nice, but what do we gain from that?
[15:39] <smartboyhw> knome, nice artwork?
[15:40] <smartboyhw> Better packaging
[15:40] <knome> smartboyhw, we have a set of artwork contributors to create us that, for free
[15:40] <knome> better what packaging?
[15:40] <knome> debian packaging?
[15:40] <smartboyhw> knome, I mean, more applications:P
[15:40] <smartboyhw> Sorry...
[15:40] <skellat> That goes back to being a bounty for getting something accomplished
[15:40] <lderan> thats not a terrible idea
[15:41] <ali1234> yeah... the idea of doing it as a contest is you get loads of people to do it and you only have to pay one of them :P
[15:41] <knome> and isn't "more applications" related more to ubuntu repositories than xubuntu
[15:41] <smartboyhw> That's a issue, yeah
[15:41] <knome> ali1234, but when they so something... what do we gain from them doing that?
[15:42] <smartboyhw> knome, bigger contributor base (maybe)
[15:42] <ali1234> well for example, a year ago i would have suggested a contest to make some more xfce themes. instead of paying one guy to make one theme, you hold a contest and maybe get 5 good themes but only have to pay the same amount
[15:42] <ali1234> although the theme situation seems to be fixed now
[15:42] <skellat> If we use it as an honorarium we can ask politely for somebody to help sponsor our developers along the road to gaining status as Debian Developer which will help us get stuff in quicker instead of waiting on mentors.debian.net and sponsorship there.
[15:42] <knome> smartboyhw, i wouldn't count on that. and i'd not like people who contribute only because there is money to be had.
[15:42] <GridCube> i like the idea of having a server for our own streaming/chat that we can "share" with mainbuntu P:
[15:42] <smartboyhw> skellat, +1
[15:43] <knome> GridCube, you're not going to get anything like that for 250 euros.
[15:43] <GridCube> tru
[15:43] <GridCube> e
[15:43] <smartboyhw> I think Noskcaj is working on doing that, he has quite a number of package uploads in mentors
[15:43] <smartboyhw> (though I am willing to exceed him:P)
[15:43] <knome> skellat, good idea, but i'm wondering if money really helps in that
[15:43] <skellat> knome: Just as a token of appreciation and/or contribution to their beer funds
[15:44] <knome> sure, but still
[15:44] <knome> but yeah, i think that's a good idea
[15:44] <knome> at least it's not completely in vain
[15:44] <knome> #info Discussion to be continued
[15:45] <knome> #subtopic Proposal for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs 
[15:45] <knome> skellat, 
[15:45] <skellat> Okay
[15:45] <skellat> #info Currently we lack sufficient manpower to secure delegated status for "Bug Control" power
[15:45] <micahg-work> we don't need delegated status
[15:45] <skellat> #info We still have a "Xubuntu Bugs" team that is subscribed to all of our packages to get bug reports
[15:46] <micahg-work> getting people approved for bug control is fairly easy
[15:46] <skellat> Yeah
[15:46] <micahg-work> one just needs to prove triage skills
[15:46] <skellat> Yep
[15:47] <skellat> Right now we just need folks to join "Xubuntu Bugs", watch what comes in, and triage.
[15:47] <lderan> i can attempt that
[15:47] <skellat> There isn't really a whole lot that comes in
[15:47] <knome> skellat, want to prepare a blog article on the subject?
[15:47] <knome> that's something that people who aren't actively involved could do as well
[15:47] <skellat> Not at this point.  I will defer that for a couple weeks.
[15:47] <elfy> I seem to see them in mailing list now
[15:48] <knome> skellat, sure, but at some point
[15:48] <micahg-work> right, people in #ubuntu-bugs can help set status for people until they prove themselves
[15:48] <skellat> elfy: I've forwarded a couple to be highlighted to the list if they're one's we should be thinking about
[15:49] <skellat> The biggest worry at this point is tagging duplicates, it seems.
[15:49] <skellat> And watching for Incomplete information bug reports.
[15:49] <micahg-work> that anyone can do I think
[15:49] <skellat> Yep
[15:50] <elfy> I'd just need some pointers I suspect
[15:50] <skellat> Anybody can do it.  We just have to go from "can" to "will".
[15:50] <knome> i would say there's also work to be done with the testing team to make the testers aware of what bugs they'd need to be aware of in addition to the ones already reported on the QA tracker or those they happen to hit
[15:52] <skellat> Basically we're hitting Feature Freeze tomorrow so now is the time to get started tagging and flagging bugs so we can get rid of them.
[15:52] <micahg-work> knome, elfy was working on consolidating bugs so developers can address them
[15:53] <knome> micahg-work, yup, that's good
[15:53] <elfy> micahg-work: did that with knome's help with launchpad - there are 8 from iso testing
[15:53] <micahg-work> speaking of FF, is there anything feature wise we want before tomorrow?  I think I'm going to upload the new gnumeric
[15:53] <knome> micahg-work, the panel indicators patch, display dialog, gmusicbrowser and any other pending uploads from ochosi you might have
[15:54] <skellat> Nothing I can think of.  Did the seed regenerate after my patch last night?
[15:54] <micahg-work> skellat, I uploaded that after I merged in your branch
[15:55] <skellat> Okay, good, with the bugs upstream on pidgin-microblog not being addressed it didn't make sense to ship it on-disc at this point.
[15:55] <micahg-work> anything else we want to add/remove from the seeds?
[15:55] <knome> skellat, so what's the outcome for the bug discussion? (#info please)
[15:56] <skellat> #info Members encouraged to join "Xubuntu Bugs" to watch the stream of reports and assist in triaging as they feel so moved
[15:57] <skellat> #info Bug handling to be reassessed prior to opening of T cycle
[15:57] <knome> okay, thanks
[15:57] <skellat> I don't have any further seed changes either, micahg-work
[15:57] <knome> can't think of any either
[15:57] <knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting 
[15:58] <knome> do we need one next week (b1 release is on thu)
[15:58] <GridCube> 2 weeks should be fine i guess
[15:58] <skellat> I would rather avoid a release day
[15:58] <skellat> 2 weeks
[15:58] <knome> skellat, we can pick a wed, like today...
[15:59] <knome> but yeah, if we don't need one, let's make that 2 weeks
[15:59] <knome> #info Next meeting: Thu Sept 12, 15UTC
[15:59] <knome> #endmeeting
[15:59] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 28 15:59:44 2013 UTC.  
[15:59] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-08-28-15.00.moin.txt
[15:59] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-08-28-15.00.html
[15:59] <elfy> thanks knome 
[15:59] <knome> i'll put the minutes up later again
[15:59] <GridCube> :
[15:59] <GridCube> :)
[15:59] <knome> thanks everybody
[15:59] <elfy> knome: also - thanks for release post 
[15:59] <knome> elfy, np
[16:00] <knome> elfy, thought i'd reply since i happened to see the mail first...
[16:00] <elfy> mailing later today re B1
[16:00] <knome> great
[16:00] <elfy> yep - been waiting for that mail to pop up - you beat me to it
[16:00] <knome> i'm out of time now, so see you later ->
[16:00] <elfy> I'll not be here for 12/9 meeting - wrong time on the wrong day 
[16:00] <elfy> cya
[16:01] <lderan> bye
[18:39] <knome> meeting minutes are up
[18:46] <lderan> cool
[19:34] <pleia2> elfy: passed along your beta1 testing note to fb, twitter, g+
[19:34] <pleia2> apologies for missing the meeting, had a late night last night and 8AM meeting really wasn't happening
[19:36] <elfy> ty pleia2 
[19:38] <knome> pleia2, no problem, hope you had a good time sleeping :)
[19:40] <Unit193> I would have liked to have been...
[20:56] <knome> ochosi, bug 1204486
[20:56] <knome> ochosi, was that something that was fixed?
[21:30] <ochosi> knome: that has to be re-tested against lightdm>=1.7.9
[21:30] <ochosi> current release is 1.7.11, not sure what is in saucy
[21:31] <knome> ok
[21:32] <jjfrv8> knome, I spotted a few typos in the strategy doc. How would you like me to send you the suggested revisions?
[21:32] <knome> jjfrv8, since i have it on a branch, and you're familiar with them, do a merge proposal
[21:33] <jjfrv8> I tried to find the branch but wasn't successful. Where did I go wrong?
[21:34] <jjfrv8> Well I tried to pull from the link you sent but it didn't let me.
[21:34] <knome> jjfrv8, https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/+junk/xubuntu-strategy-document-rewrite-1310
[21:34] <knome>      bzr branch lp:~knome/+junk/xubuntu-strategy-document-rewrite-1310 
[21:34] <knome> no reason you couldn't do that
[21:34] <jjfrv8> okay, will try again
[21:34] <knome> let me know how it goes
[21:37] <jjfrv8> worked this time. it didn't like the "changes" subdirectory before.
[21:37] <knome> okay
[21:38] <jjfrv8> thanks for that suggestion on Meld. I had been looking for just such a thing.
[21:38] <knome> no problem :)
[21:38] <knome> glad to be able to help
[21:40] <jjfrv8> I've been falling down on the job lately with the Saucy docs but I plan on getting back to them in the next few days.
[21:40] <knome> that's okay, we still have time until the doc freeze
[21:42] <knome> hey GridCube! will you be around tomorrow?
[21:42] <GridCube> probably
[21:42] <GridCube> like usually around
[21:42] <knome> :)
[21:42] <knome> before 12UTC?
[21:43] <knome> or is that still "today" for you?
[21:43] <knome> (what's your timezone again...)
[21:43] <GridCube> i live in utc -3
[21:44] <GridCube> that would be the hour i "should" get to work, but i've arranged with my director to come later and leave later
[21:44] <GridCube> P:
[21:44] <knome> heh
[21:44] <knome> let's see if i'll just do the website stuff today
[21:44] <ochosi> micahg: i made the mistake of pinging you in -offtopic. gonna re-summarize here now...
[21:44] <GridCube> great :)
[21:46] <ochosi> micahg: i never made the shimmer-pathces, that was either you or mr_pouit, so i'm a bit lost with rebasing them (i'm not even sure where they are now)
[22:05] <knome> GridCube, is the first desktop only 1024x576, or can't i access the full size version because i'm not logged?
[22:06] <GridCube> let me see
[22:08] <GridCube> the image resolution should be 1366×768
[22:08] <knome> also, can you confirm where the license is specified?
[22:09] <knome> ok, how should i go to get that size?
[22:09] <GridCube> no no
[22:09] <GridCube> lets find another image, this is obviously wrong somewhere
[22:10] <bluesabre> knome: yup, already fixed and new one released
[22:10] <bluesabre> you're so slow >.<
[22:10] <ochosi> haha
[22:10] <knome> bluesabre, wha? 1204486? why isn't the status fixed then
[22:10] <GridCube> knome, lets use the second one
[22:11] <knome> i get 1920x1080 for that
[22:11] <knome> i assume that's correct
[22:11] <knome> oh, for that, i can see the license
[22:11] <GridCube> yes i made sure to upload it full
[22:11] <knome> good
[22:11] <GridCube> yes 
[22:11] <bluesabre> knome... 1204486 != catfish
[22:12] <knome> bluesabre, ffst
[22:12] <knome> :P
[22:12] <bluesabre> haven't backlogged all the way yet
[22:14] <bluesabre> micahg: https://mentors.debian.net/package/mugshot
[22:14] <bluesabre> any way to get that in with gtk-theme-config?
[22:14] <knome> GridCube, so we also need to make sure the people who send the images specifically specify a license.
[22:15] <GridCube> yes sorry i didnt paid any attention to that in the first image
[22:15] <knome> they are lacking in all submissions except for those you uploaded
[22:16] <knome> we also need to double-check the attribution the people want
[22:16] <GridCube> yes, i am noticing it
[22:16] <knome> eg. would that person want (c) Maitake or (c) Real Name
[22:17] <GridCube> Probably just Maitake in this case
[22:17] <knome> sure, but for future
[22:17] <knome> would be helpful to have that in the deviantArt image description
[22:17] <GridCube> ditto
[22:17] <knome> along with the description you want in the website too, actually
[22:18] <knome> what's in  http://gridcube.deviantart.com/art/Xubuntu-13-04-Desktop-of-IRC-user-Maitake-388920028  is better than "this is from user X"
[22:18] <GridCube> true
[22:18] <knome> except that description is for a reason or another cut..
[22:18] <knome> is there a limit for the deviantArt submission titles?
[22:18] <GridCube> it was an example of what to do in the wiki, not a real line that should go
[22:18] <bluesabre> hmmm
[22:18] <knome> (the one that says "Xubuntu 13.04 Desktop of IRC user Maitake" ?)
[22:19] <bluesabre> tab title "Unix porn" on that screenshot
[22:19] <knome> hmpf.
[22:19] <GridCube> mmm you cant use special characters and maybe too long names would be a no no too
[22:19] <knome> i thought we had moderators for that.
[22:19] <knome> GridCube, but that would be acceptable for our purposes. we can always link to the deviantArt page too.
[22:21] <GridCube> i noticed the "unix porn" tab, but thats just a screenshot sharing subreddit
[22:21] <knome> sure, but that's still questionable
[22:21] <GridCube> though so, but not really
[22:21] <knome> whatever the actual content is, the guidelines say "safe for work"
[22:21] <knome> not if you know what that is, but if you don't... and you probably wouldn't want your kids see that.
[22:22] <ali1234> "mummy what is unix porn?"
[22:22] <GridCube> a desktop sharing subreddit son
[22:22] <knome> for example
[22:22] <knome> GridCube, go explain that...
[22:22] <GridCube> i though i just did
[22:22] <GridCube> no really up to a fight here, we can use another, we do have many
[22:22] <knome> sure
[22:23] <ali1234> could lead to an interesting conversation about eunuchs
[22:23] <knome> ali1234, which is where we should stop the discussion on this family-friendly channel
[22:24]  * genii ponders ritporn
[22:25] <knome> genii, uwff... can you ponder that alone? ;)
[22:25] <knome> genii, just for the sake of it, googling that gives a questionable result #3.
[22:26] <GridCube> we can use this one knome http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/art/Xubuntu-Numix-Faenza-389334534
[22:26] <ali1234> it gives questionable results for the entire front page for me
[22:26] <genii> knome: It's a joke site, all the photos are of computer equipment :-)
[22:26] <GridCube> even if the license its not there it was proposed to us. i will send them a note asking for an update on the license
[22:26] <genii> "The Best Racks on the Net", etc
[22:27] <knome> genii, #3 result in google ain't. apparently rit == ritual...
[22:27] <knome> GridCube, looking at that wallpaper, and following to its deviantArt page, what's the license?
[22:28] <knome> GridCube, actually, it says ©2012-2013 ~rOEN911
[22:28] <knome> GridCube, and there's no open license specified
[22:28] <GridCube> yes as i said, they gave the image to us. im asking him to update the license though
[22:29] <knome> GridCube, no, i'm referring to the wallpaper image.
[22:29] <knome> GridCube, at http://roen911.deviantart.com/art/The-Storm-Catcher-342576630
[22:29] <GridCube> oh we have no idea for that, we will never be
[22:29] <GridCube> neither them
[22:29] <GridCube> its the internet we are talking about
[22:30] <knome> it's the guidelines we set
[22:30] <knome> "All submissions must confirm that they have permission to share a background or other desktop image (either through direct ownership or through licensing which allows it to be included in a screenshot). Our preferred licence is Creative Commons."
[22:30] <knome> that's really clear on the issue.
[22:30] <GridCube> the user links to the wallpaper creator http://roen911.deviantart.com/art/The-Storm-Catcher-342576630
[22:31] <knome> that's exactly the reason we needed a moderator team
[22:31] <knome> GridCube, yes, and that page does not specify a license we can use, only a copyright
[22:31] <GridCube> and it falls under the deviantART fair use copyright policy http://about.deviantart.com/policy/copyright/
[22:31] <knome> GridCube, so it should be considered a copyrighted image
[22:32] <knome> that's the deviantArt copyright policy, not transferable to images submitted to xubuntu.org
[22:33] <knome> GridCube, i understand the concept of fair use, and i'm sure most people wouldn't have any problems with what we are doing, but the guidelines are there for a reason
[22:33] <GridCube> yes i know that
[22:34] <knome> GridCube, the people sending submissions are able to change their wallpapers really easily (heck, we even literally ship them software to do that!)
[22:39] <knome> GridCube, looks like we need to tigthen the moderation screw.
[22:39] <GridCube> indeed
[22:39] <GridCube> i will see to that
[22:40] <knome> thanks
[22:48] <GridCube> knome, http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/art/Desktop-2013-08-13-Xubuntu-12-04-392809990
[22:51] <knome> GridCube, great
[22:53] <GridCube> or this one http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/art/True-Blue-391934116 wallaper has a simply disclaimer http://alextc1.deviantart.com/art/Tsunami-295521292
[22:53] <knome> i'd rather stick with real (tm) licenses, less prone to errors and misuse
[22:54] <GridCube> ok
[22:54] <knome> but you could check with the xubuntu license expert pleia2 
[23:01] <GridCube> will do
[23:01] <GridCube> :)
[23:02] <knome> anyway, let's follow up on this on the mailing list and IRC the following days
[23:02] <knome> i hope we can publish the first desktop early next week
[23:02] <pleia2> been pretty overwhelmed this week and I haven't kept up with the discussion, but +1 to real licenses (CC preferred)
[23:02] <knome> :)
[23:02] <knome> pleia2 <3
[23:03] <pleia2> <3
[23:03]  * Unit193 licensed his BSD-3-clause. :D
[23:03] <ochosi> ali1234: did you start the panel from /usr/local/.. ?
[23:03] <pleia2> Unit193: it's weird to license artwork with a code license :)
[23:03] <ali1234> yes, it makes no difference
[23:03] <ochosi> ali1234: sorry i have to leave you at this point/stage, but i really gotta go sleep
[23:03] <Unit193> pleia2: Kidding. ;P
[23:03] <knome> pleia2, Unit193 is weird
[23:03] <ali1234> don't worry, i'll figure it out
[23:03] <GridCube> i've changed the wiki a bit knome 
[23:03] <Unit193> Only concern is background, otherwise I couldn't care less.
[23:04] <knome> GridCube, yeah, i played a bit with it as well
[23:04] <ochosi> ali1234: ok great, if you do, forward your results to micahg 
[23:04] <ochosi> night everyone!
[23:05] <ali1234> ah.. if i run the indicators by hand they show up
[23:05] <ali1234> so they're just not starting
[23:05] <ochosi> cool!
[23:05] <ochosi> weird
[23:05] <ochosi> but still, good that it works
[23:05] <ali1234> unfortunately the only one that exists on path is indicator-cpufreq
[23:05] <ali1234> and that might be a dbus one anyway
[23:15] <micahg_mobile> I'll upload gmb to Ubuntu and then push to Debian git
[23:17] <knome> yay
[23:18] <bluesabre> yay
[23:20] <jjfrv8> knome, there's no option to propose for merging on that SD branch. Could it be because of the +junk thing?
[23:21] <knome> jjfrv8, i'm pretty sure that's not proposed, but if you just type in the branch name (starting with ~knome...) that should do it
[23:25] <micahg_mobile> No merges for junk branches
[23:26] <knome> really?
[23:26] <knome> isn't that a bit stupid.
[23:27] <jjfrv8> knome, you actualy mentioned that in my original training session.
[23:27] <knome> did i?
[23:27] <micahg_mobile> Nah,they're meant as a place to stash a WIP, if you want collaboration,make a project
[23:28] <jjfrv8> I've got the notes to prove it. :)
[23:28] <knome> oky
[23:28] <knome> then i've just forgotten...
[23:28] <knome> well BOO
[23:28] <bluesabre> micahg_mobile: is there any way to get mugshot in, like what is being done with gtk-theme-config?  https://mentors.debian.net/package/mugshot
[23:28] <knome> jjfrv8, if you have it on a branch i can manually diff though.
[23:29] <micahg_mobile> See the RFS template on mentors, let me know if you still need help
[23:29] <jjfrv8> okay. https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8-gmail/+junk/xubuntu-strategy-document-rewrite-1310
[23:30] <bluesabre> ok
[23:31] <knome> jjfrv8, downloaded the file, thanks. you can either keep or delete the branch, however you wish
[23:32] <jjfrv8> oki, thanks.
[23:32] <knome> i'll look at merging that tomorrow
[23:32] <knome> but a quick overview looked fine for me
[23:32] <jjfrv8> cool
[23:37] <bluesabre> micahg_mobile, RFS sent, thanks