[13:57] <sil2100> Hangout link for the current session: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/617b2d450bf059edef8675e873a4c84aead18077?authuser=0&hl=en
[13:59] <sil2100> asac: ^
[14:02]  * rsalveti waves
[14:02]  * sergiusens waves back
[14:02] <zyga> hi
[14:02] <lool> doanac`: you're ok in terms of audio; video is a bit choppy but it's ok
[14:04] <zyga> doanac`: checkbox is used for sru testing and other kinds of "testing"
[14:05] <lool> what about autopkgtests?
[14:05] <cjwatson> lool: it's mentioned there
[14:05] <lool> ah sorry need to check the pad
[14:07] <rfowler> can't see etherpad
[14:08] <Ursinha> rfowler, try to "separate notes window" and it should ask to login (happened here a couple of times)
[14:09] <lool> rfowler: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-disccuss-critical-pieces-of-ci-infrastructure
[14:09] <rfowler> Ursinha: that worked
[14:09] <Ursinha> good :)
[14:10] <elmo> canonistack is a known oversubscribed resource
[14:10] <elmo> you shouldn't be using it for production services
[14:10] <elmo> that's what prodstack is for
[14:11] <zyga> doanac`: then use aws instead of canonistack
[14:15] <plars> not *too* much, but sometimes it's helpful to get at the config files directly
[14:16] <plars> we do manually touch a lot of the nodes, especially those that are connected to devices
[14:16] <plars> I'm probably behind where the conversation is at though...
[14:17] <rfowler> most have remote management
[14:17] <zyga> doanac`, plars, asac: maybe we should run lava to control the phones?
[14:18] <lool> asac: right
[14:18] <plars> the public/private split is due to firewall restrictions
[14:18] <zyga> asac: we also have that issue (public/private) jenkins
[14:18] <lool> asac: I think the QA Lab was built separated from everything else
[14:18] <lool> asac: while public one was built alone just for this
[14:19] <lool> perhaps worth discussing stability of x86 machines used for testing graphics (e.g. Mir/Unity)?
[14:20] <lool> it's on the path to land Mir or some stacks, even if that's not ARM
[14:21] <cjwatson> elmo: Yeah, I can understand the rationale.  I mostly just don't want to silently not mention that it's a practical problem for us, in this kind of session, although it is something we are living with
[14:23] <sergiusens> rfowler: do people in the EMEA or APAC timezone have access to remote management?
[14:23] <Mirv> sergiusens: yes, the problems we've had have been that remote power switching has not been enough
[14:23] <rfowler> sergiusens: i don't see why not
[14:23] <Mirv> or some of them, obviously many have been resolved with power switching remotely
[14:23] <sil2100> sergiusens: sometimes we could resolve it remotely, but there were moments when this was not enough
[14:23] <sergiusens> rfowler: yeah, we just need to have a goto list somewhere
[14:24] <sergiusens> sil2100: I know
[14:24] <Mirv> sergiusens: there's QA wiki page with quite a lot of details
[14:24] <rfowler> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/QA/Lab
[14:24] <rfowler> sergiusens:
[14:24] <lool> doanac`, jibel: (ack)
[14:24] <rfowler> sergiusens: i update it constantly
[14:25] <rfowler> there are only two machines like that jibel...
[14:25] <zyga> we have the same class of issues in certification test pool
[14:25] <rfowler> with exception to the phones
[14:25] <sergiusens> rfowler: oh, I asked ones for something so I don't restart the wrong thing regarding that :-)
[14:25] <zyga> we're automatically booting about 50 machines for remote testing
[14:25] <zyga> some have issue with boot-from-lan or need manual interventions often
[14:26] <zyga> but we have a large lab / office where people have access to all hardware so it's easy to get around
[14:26] <rfowler> i can spin up one :)
[14:26] <zyga> we also look at moving to something like maas or maas derived to manage our pool
[14:26] <plars> right
[14:26] <zyga> with extra features for less-than-ideal-hardware
[14:26] <zyga> like manual action console for people on site
[14:26] <zyga> or support for odd boot methods and one-off solutions
[14:27] <zyga> integrated power management not based on IPMI
[14:27] <zyga> and stuff like that
[14:27] <rfowler> asac: we are limited by space in this current lab for that
[14:27] <zyga> perhaps the same stuff can be reused to run other lbas
[14:27] <zyga> labs
[14:27] <chiluk> or you could get a good remote control adapter
[14:27] <zyga> (and we're also going to use tablets/phones there)
[14:27] <chiluk> or machines that come with a good one.
[14:27] <chiluk> like hp ilo etc.
[14:27] <Mirv> rfowler: btw that page being up-to-date has been very appreciated when we've been remote debugging
[14:27] <plars> yeah, I'm lost... I think the conversation took a very different turn
[14:28] <chiluk> in this day and age there is no excuse to need someone to go push buttons on a server
[14:28] <lool> ev: it's not jenkins, it's the physical slaves
[14:28] <lool> ev: like e.g. some machine with ATI graphics
[14:28] <ev> ah, right
[14:28] <rfowler> Mirv: np
[14:28] <zyga> we also have two physical labs so we have all-globe coverage pretty much
[14:28] <plars> I think it's more like needing to add lots more devices and move towards scheduling them more dynamically
[14:28] <rfowler> Mirv: keeps me sane too when I bring up all these boxes
[14:28] <lool> or nexus 4 / nexus 7
[14:29] <cjwatson> chiluk: A lot of the stuff here is inherently not server-class, surely (e.g. mobile)
[14:29]  * zyga feels totally ignored here ;)
[14:29] <sergiusens> zyga: i'm reading you
[14:29] <chiluk> cjwatson, I understand mobile...
[14:29] <sergiusens> but the conversation seems hard to interject
[14:29] <lool> zyga: (I'm reading you but mostly throwing questions at the conversation from the hangout :-)
[14:30] <zyga> thanks!
[14:30] <zyga> I think we have the _exact_ same problems but you have a bit larger scale, I'm just interested in getting a good solution for both teams
[14:30] <rfowler> there are already 25+ phones/devices in the lab and I'm generally on top of keeping them up
[14:30] <sergiusens> zyga: join the hangout!
[14:30] <lool> zyga: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/617b2d450bf059edef8675e873a4c84aead18077?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:31] <zyga> sergiusens: it's full and I don't want to interrupt you that much but ok
[14:31] <lool> zyga: isn't it up to 15?
[14:31] <chiluk> doanac++
[14:31] <zyga> it's full
[14:31] <plars> iirc there were difficulties making our test VMs and physical machines provision with maas because it lent itself more to knowing ahead of time what you want, where we want the crack of the day
[14:31] <Ursinha> I thought there was a 10 people limit
[14:31] <plars> retoaded: you looked into that a lot I think?
[14:31] <sergiusens> zyga: I'm dropping so you can join
[14:31] <plars> but I still think we're having lots of different conversations in parallel here
[14:32] <plars> ah
[14:32] <zyga> thanks
[14:32] <plars> that pc is not a huge thing to replace
[14:32] <chiluk> can't we hack phones with arduinos to push buttons?
[14:32] <sergiusens> zyga: get in!
[14:32] <chiluk> i know the unity/mir team has something like that for their display hotplug testing
[14:32] <plars> there's not much to charm for nodes like phoenix
[14:32] <rfowler> chiluk: I'm working on that
[14:32] <retoaded> plars, we're still stuck with what maas can provide on precise until the lab gets update to a more recent version anyway
[14:32] <chiluk> rfowler nice
[14:32] <plars> the only "special" piece it needs is the jenkins slave, and a bit of udev rules that we scp from just about anywhere else
[14:32] <plars> that's it
[14:36] <plars> where would we put our VMs if we did that? prodstack?
[14:37] <plars> does it support us doing something like this and can it handle us spinning up lots of VMs in this way?
[14:37]  * cjwatson drops off so there's more space for people contributing more
[14:38]  * ogra_ agrees with cjwatson and leaves too 
[14:44] <zyga> asac: how do you plan on using charms on the various test machines?
[14:44] <zyga> asac: using openstack on virtual machines and use a juju provider for that
[14:44] <zyga> asac: what about physical machines? maas?
[14:45] <jamespage> here to answer questions re jenkins/java in the archive if need be...
[14:45] <jamespage> elmo, either
[14:45] <jamespage> elmo, fastpath = image based
[14:46] <jamespage> elmo, or d-i based installed
[14:47] <nuclearbob> we can still do that with pxe without cobbler
[14:47] <zyga> we don't use cobbler
[14:47] <zyga> and we also use maas to test servers and cloud setups lately
[14:49] <sergiusens> rfowler: asac: doanac`: can we electrically open all the devices for power cycling initially?
[14:49] <sergiusens> devices == phones, tablets
[14:49] <doanac`> sergiusens: currently they just attached via USB to the host
[14:50] <doanac`> rfowler was looking into adding the ability to "push the power button". but its pretty hard and requires soldering
[14:50] <zyga> doanac`: lava lmp boards :)
[14:51] <sergiusens> asac: there's the RT bucket
[14:51] <sergiusens> retoaded: ^^
[14:51] <sergiusens> fginther: ^^
[14:51] <doanac`> zyga: thought about it, but I'm not sure if that works well with consumer products like an N4
[14:52] <retoaded> sergiusens, that works for the instances that lead to an RT being filed. Many we handled via E-mail or IRC
[14:53] <sergiusens> retoaded: yeah, that sort of sucks i retrospect...
[14:53] <retoaded> :-)
[14:53] <sergiusens> *in
[14:54] <elmo> jamespage: is the image specific to MAAS or was I making that up?
[14:54] <jamespage> elmo, for fast path - yes
[14:54] <jamespage> elmo, for d-i its just the stock mini.iso installer stuff thats used
[14:54] <rfowler> there needs to be more discussions like this
[14:55] <sil2100> Definitely, this session is too short for this
[14:56] <elmo> jamespage: cool, ta
[14:57] <elopio> thank you.
[14:57] <sil2100> Thanks guys
[14:57] <asac> sergiusens: the problem with powercycling is that we also need to push the button
[14:57] <asac> to start the phone
[14:58] <asac> unless we keep the boot partition free i think
[14:58] <asac> (on galaxy nexus)
[15:00] <sergiusens> asac: I tried the free boot partition thing, it won't pan out with image based upgrade image
[15:00] <asac> sergiusens: right. thats the problem
[15:00] <ogra_> relais ...
[15:01] <sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/34e6e37dab70881ef67b20d0acc417a82fed18e0?authuser=0&hl=en <- hangout link for Mir preformance improvements
[15:01] <ogra_> usb driver ... to glue onto the case
[15:01] <ogra_> *driven
[15:01] <sil2100> (brb in front of the cam)
[15:06] <sil2100> Let's spin this session
[15:07] <sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/34e6e37dab70881ef67b20d0acc417a82fed18e0?authuser=0&hl=en <- in case anyone wants to join in, hangout link
[15:13] <olli> the mentioned URL to compare Nexus and Nexus 4 - http://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?D1=Google+Galaxy+Nexus+%28Samsung+I9250%29&D2=Google+Nexus+4&cols=2
[15:14] <john-mcaleely> do you have a feel for how to separate Mir performance from Unity8's? ie, how does UNity8 work on destop GL + Xmir vs UNity 8 on GLES/Touch?
[15:20] <john-mcaleely> Yes - I 'd like to be able to separate Unity 8 and Mir performance.
[15:21] <john-mcaleely> agreed on screen size changes!
[15:21] <john-mcaleely> (I made up the config to try to isolate Mir. It may make no sense - so thanks olli)
[15:22] <john-mcaleely> aha - so on desktop GL drivers, etc. Nice
[15:23] <john-mcaleely> (sorry, I didn't join the hangout - multitasking at my end in another hangout)
[15:28] <john-mcaleely> where's the link?
[15:28] <john-mcaleely> :-)
[15:28] <olli> in launchpad ;)
[15:28] <john-mcaleely> ha!
[15:29] <olli> kg is pulling it up
[15:29] <kgunn> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-mir-converged
[15:29] <john-mcaleely> thx
[15:31] <john-mcaleely> thanks kgunn olli sil2100 !
[15:31] <kgunn> john-mcaleely: your welcome...thanks for the questions
[15:32] <sil2100> Thanks everyone!
[15:32] <sil2100> Sorry for not being too active, so much things to do!
[18:01] <sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/638e314fae56e6bde09d491276807326e3b48472?authuser=0&hl=en <- hangout for people who want to participate
[18:44] <olli> is there any input re Mir roadmap from the audience
[18:45] <chiluk> is there any plan to backport 14.10 features into 14.04?
[18:45] <chiluk> in order to decrease support burden on xmir?
[18:47] <chiluk> you probably heard it from me.. I don't think it's really been answered
[18:47] <TheMuso> Is there going to be any form of multi-display output on our supported touch devices between now and 14.04?
[18:47] <TheMuso> i.e I'll be using a Nexus 10 for a11y development, and I'm  hoping to use the HDMI out on that with a monitor for easier development and workflow.
[18:48] <chiluk> thanks olli..
[18:48] <arges> any talk about wireless display technologies? such as intel widi? It would be pretty cool to be able to beam my phone's screen to a large monitor.
[18:49] <seepa> +1 arges
[18:49] <arges> obviously intel widi might not be a phone, but something similar.
[18:49] <chiluk> yeah that would be nice ..
[18:50] <arges> understood. cool
[18:50] <sil2100> Any other remarks?
[18:50] <chiluk> we are already partnered with intel
[18:50] <chiluk> right?
[18:51] <kgunn> see miracast
[18:53] <sil2100> Thanks everyone!
[18:54] <sil2100> olli: thankfully it wasn't a door or a door-frame ;) Bad luck, just had to damage myself right before UDS during the wekend