[02:55] OvenWerk1, you have made the longest debian/changelog I have ever seen with ubuntustudio-menu (0.16) [03:50] just a heads up for all the US team, we're about to pull in xfce4-settings from 4.11 [03:51] zequence, OvenWerk1, holstein: ^ [03:51] (smartboyhow ack'd in #xubuntu-devel, so we're going ahead) [03:53] ^ I don't think it can be very worse to pull in^ [03:54] the new modules are xkb and display (which is why xubuntu mostly wants it in) [04:14] smartboyhw: Ya, there is a lot there, normally there are more uploads in the middle. [04:14] I guess I was on a roll :) [05:46] smartboyhw: You probably haven't seen kernel changelogs then [05:47] and the one that probably beats the record is the lowlatency that was updated last year, after not having been updated for many months [05:47] that changelog was like a small book [07:03] zequence, I know kernel changelogs are long [07:03] But, for a normal package, OvenWerk1's one is REAL long [07:13] Good morning zequence-work! Nice updates on the social media about the shop. [07:13] Just a note, on http://ubuntustudio.org/2013/08/ubuntu-studio-merchandise/ is ttoine's nick mispelled. "toine" [07:14] cub, HEH [07:14] * smartboyhw changes [07:14] aha so you have access too smartboyhw ? [07:14] cub, for content yes [07:14] For themes, NO [07:14] great [07:15] cub, so, what did the guys make out from the Community Roundtable [07:16] cub, updated [07:16] tl;dr : google hangout is the best alternative at the moment. It is sad that they put the age thing in there but as a comprimise everyone can watch the live session and participate through IRC, even though you can't be on camera yourself. [07:16] it was quite good, you should listen to it. [07:17] the alternatives as of today is either too crappy or too expensive, but they will keep a lookout for better apps ongoing [07:18] cub: Morning :) [07:19] zequence-work: See my explanation of why OvenWerk1's changelog is long (excluding kernels) [07:19] :P [07:23] * cub is reading the irc logs [07:23] Are we going to run xfce 4.11 as well now that Xubuntu have decided to include it for 13.10? [07:23] wrong. [07:23] hmm or perhaps it was only the xfce4-settings [07:23] we're including a part of it [07:23] cub, xfce4-settings that is [07:23] right [07:23] and yes, that will affect you [07:23] I read it again. :) [07:24] we will also upload stuff that enables you to run gtk3 indicators on gtk2 panel, so that too [07:24] (that'll actually bring some of the lost functionality back) [07:24] Will it? Because when I discussed something else with OvenWerk1 I understood it as we didn't pull exactly from xubuntu? [07:25] I could have got it wrong though. [07:25] i would argue that it will affect you as well, but it's possible it doesn't [07:25] in that case you'd have to maintain the gtk2 indicators yourself though... [07:25] yeah I have no idea, I'm the new guy. ;) [07:26] heh [07:26] oops, wrong chan [07:26] knome, why is that wrong chan? [07:26] it made sense to me. :D [07:26] smartboyhw, "heh" was meant to go to a different channel. [07:26] knome, ah [07:27] knome, heh for you:P [07:27] Is there one-page-to-rule-them-all that show all the dates for beta1/2/etc, RC, document freeze and so on? [07:28] cub, yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule [07:28] Actually, we have our own version [07:28] yes, that's the "type 're' in firefox location bar and hit enter" [07:28] with better explanations of everything [07:29] smartboyhw, thanks, I knew I had seen it somewhere. the search function on the wiki doesn't like me. [07:29] cub, heh [07:30] smartboyhw, wouldn't say "better", just more verbose and more US-centric [07:30] knome, yeah [07:36] This ubuntu single-sign-on is more like sign-on-twenty-times-on-the-same-page [07:37] cub, LOL [07:37] or every time you click to the next page. [07:38] * cub needs more coffee. [08:00] ttoine, so, the announcement was out! [08:24] smartboyhw, ah ? on the website ? [08:24] ttoine, yep [08:24] great ! [08:28] cub, so, what do you want to learn today? [08:32] zequence-work: Here's a suggestion to introduce our team: Make everyone wear the Ubuntu Studio and take a photo, then photoshop them together:P [08:34] yes, i support the photoshopping part [08:35] knome, LOL [08:35] (Of course, we will use free software rather than photoshop) [08:35] i'd also like to see smartboyhw "wearing ubuntu studio" [08:36] knome, if you give me your project's some of the 250 Euros to buy it;P [08:36] smartboyhw, I already learnt where to find the release calendars [08:36] cub, eh, OK, that's a bit trivialP [08:36] :P [08:36] * knome slaps smartboyhw [08:36] And I read the release processes on my way to work. [08:36] stop being greedy :P [08:36] also, you missed my point [08:36] knome, sorry, we Chinese are VERY greedy:P [08:36] knome, why? [08:37] because i said i'd like to see you *wear* *ubuntu studio* (the abstract product, not a shirt, because you didn't specify people should wear a shirt, but "the ubuntu studio"...) [08:38] smartboyhw, I also hope to learn how to make gnome-orca 3.9 work in Saucy with xfce 4.10. [08:38] knome, my fault:P [08:39] the Ubuntu studio -> the Ubuntu Studio T-shirts [08:39] cub, it will be difficult, since GNOME is not as the same base as Xfce:) [08:39] smartboyhw, i know.. that's why i clinged to it :P [08:39] knome, OK, I'm not expecting a debate happening [08:39] me neither [08:40] Yes, it's a bit tricky but Xfce release notes said to include more accessibility and people on Arch have got it working. [08:40] LOL [08:40] cub, well, copy the work from Arch!? [08:40] though on previous versions of orca [08:40] cub, ok [08:41] yup, I have two different walkthroughs on how it was done on Arch with xfce. hopefully I get it to work in my US [08:41] After that I need to be able to replicate those steps on the live session, with my eyes closed ..... [08:41] cub, ah, you should come to Dialogue in the Dark:P [08:42] the what now? :D [08:42] That's a place to make normal people experience blindness [08:42] How blind people live [08:42] ah right. There is, or was, a restaurant like that in Stockholm [08:42] cub, oh [08:43] cub, http://www.dialogue-in-the-dark.hk/web/?lang=en [08:43] then when I started to work at the centre for visually impaired we had to go blindfolded för half a day as part of the introduction to the work place. :P [08:43] cub, oh [08:44] you got to remember that "visually impaired" doesn't imply "blind" though [08:44] For us, it's to make us learn how to communicate with blind people (since we have blind people in our class last year) [08:44] I know, that's why I try to say and write visually impaired instead of blind. [08:45] cub, well, for us it's OK to do visually impaired = blind [08:46] In formal situations I will be using the first option [08:46] But as knome said, this is smalltalk:P [08:46] but small talk that is logged on the internet. So I stay with VI. [08:47] cub, eh [08:47] visually impaired is far from blind, so one could argue about that... [08:47] well no [08:47] visually impaired can be a quite wide range from "normal" sight to blind [08:48] yep [08:49] * cub found that the Dinner in the Dark is still open in Stockholm [08:49] cub, oh [08:49] Heh, DiD just started a Dinner in the Dark project [08:49] http://www.dialogue-in-the-dark.hk/web/subpage.php?mid=22 [08:51] Nice. My keyboard stuck when pressing ctrl+t and opened like 1024 new tabs in chromium [08:52] cub, huh [08:52] smartboyhw: Yes, it would be nice to have more pictures of our team members, and with t-shirts on [08:53] cub, so, can you picture yourself wearing the shirt? ttoine ^ [08:54] I already have. [08:55] but I looked stupid. [08:55] maybe that's just my look. [08:56] cub, well, just show it to us (if you permit) [08:59] I didn't have a photographer like zequence-work , so grainy iphone in the mirror shot [08:59] cub, you mean, you don't even have a camera? :O [08:59] yes, but I seldom use it anymore [09:00] cub, ok [09:03] http://sjolund.se/pix/cub_us_shirt.jpg [09:04] cub, hopefully we can get rid of that iPhone:P [09:04] haha I can take a new picture if we are going to do a team picture [09:04] If not people will think: WHAT!? Why does a open-source contributor use fully proprietary phones?:P [09:04] that image is quite compressed [09:05] oh easy, my propreitary work makes me! [09:05] I'm using a macbook as well [09:05] ...... [09:06] I want a new pc to run linux again, but this one has to break before I get a new one. [09:07] and they are quite sturdy, those macbooks... [09:15] smartboyhw, I will order a t-shirt next week [09:15] ttoine, sure [09:15] I am waiting for my pay [09:58] Hbey OvenWerk1 congrats! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/CoreTeamPage [09:59] cub, well OvenWerk1 is the undisputable option [09:59] * smartboyhw is expecting OvenWerk1 to take over zequence-work's position when zequence-work steps down one day (that will have to wait until at least 14.04) [10:00] :P [10:01] zequence-work, BTW why does the LP link point to the kernel team link!? [10:01] I mean, in the page... [10:02] * smartboyhw fixes that [10:04] done [10:05] OvenWerk1, welcome to the throne [10:05] ALL HAIL OvenWerk1 and zequence-work ! [10:05] LOL [10:20] cub: That's a custom color, is it not? Not one of the default ones we've done [10:20] the picture of your t-shirt that is [10:24] zequence-work, yeah that's the dark grey shirt [10:25] If we are to do a team pic, I will take a new picture with proper camera and wearing my white default shirt. :) [10:25] Are we? [10:25] * smartboyhw doesn't have any money to do so [10:26] we can add the shirt to another photo of you smartboyhw ? ;) [10:26] We should sponsor smartboyhw [10:26] zequence-work: It will be great:P [10:29] good morning/afternoon [10:29] zequence-work, I'm setting up a plan for myself on what to do until 13.10 launch. Since I have limited time (don't we all) I'm figuring out so I focus on the best spots. So, what would be the best parts to focus on? [10:30] Accessibility is already on my table. But other than that I'm not sure whether to focus on testing, workflows, copyright or updating documentation. [10:33] * cub needs to grac lunch before the next work meeting [10:49] zequence, I will work on these 2 things for 14.04: 1. linux-rt (I am still waiting for you on how to fix the build error) and 2. offline doc (I will be gaining experience through my Season of KDE project about doc) [10:55] cub, suggestion: Workflows [10:57] cub, we have been talking about workflows for a long time, but we still can't manage to make it work [11:01] OvenWerk1, HOLY CHRIST YOUR MENU IS AWESOME [11:05] (EVEN IN KDE) [11:05] THANK YOU OvenWerk1 AND MISH [11:06] ^ OK, too maniac, but it's true [12:05] zequence-work: zequence, I will work on these 2 things for 14.04: 1. linux-rt (I am still waiting for you on how to fix the build error) and 2. offline doc (I will be gaining experience through my Season of KDE project about doc) [12:05] smartboyhw: Was just reading the logs :). That sounds great [12:06] zequence-work, um, but can you try to see why linux-rt fails? [12:06] cub: I'd really like to see someone handling the package selection for our workflows [12:06] I still can't understand the reason why the control gets overwrittem [12:06] *overwritten [12:07] cub: That's something that puts you close to users. And, let's you get into the system of planning, code maintaining etc, without things getting too technical [12:07] cub: And let's not forget documentation [12:08] smartboyhw: I can't promise when I have time to look at that, but it won't be a priority for me for a little while at least [12:08] zequence-work, OK [12:08] zequence-work, now, where did the sponsorship discussion go?:P [12:08] smartboyhw: We should fix it fairly quickly in the dev cycle, so we have good time to argue for getting the kernel in and find out how we maintain it [12:09] SRUs for it will be different than for generic [12:09] zequence-work, it would mean very different maintenance [12:11] zequence-work, package selection for the workflows, that ties in to the discussion we had waaay back about the use cases? Like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows/Graphics [12:12] cub, yep [12:12] zequence-work: I suggest that if you are going to sponsor my T-shirt, do it for ttoine too [12:12] (And also, ask ScottL) [12:15] smartboyhw, I can pay for my t-shirt, it is my birthday soon ;-) [12:15] :D [12:15] ttoine, :D [12:16] * smartboyhw thinks we should gift a birthday gift to ttoine [12:16] I think I will order a shirt and the mug [12:16] An Ubuntu Studio T-shirt! [12:16] The mug is awesome [12:16] Such a nice feeling drinking coffee [12:17] But, the t-shirts are beautiful of course. [12:17] I find that people stop and look at it [12:17] It's a powerful symbol [12:18] yes the mug is sweet. It dings easy though so be careful! [12:19] * cub has already cracked his mug. [12:19] or chipped rather than cracked. [12:19] * zequence-work kicks cub [12:19] hey I got a new one in the mail anyway since the print was off! :D [12:19] Just means it's already well used [12:19] cub, uh hum [12:19] You can break the mug that early? [12:20] yes. I was about to bring new coffe and accidently dented it against a hard table. [12:21] the quality on the shirts are really nice. I also like the environmental thinking around it. [12:22] cub, yes, thats' why I selected this fabric quality [12:22] cub, what colour did you choose ? [12:22] one white with blue print and one dark grey with all white print [12:23] the dark grey is quite greenish, but looks nice [12:24] In case you missed it: zequence-work, package selection for the workflows, that ties in to the discussion we had waaay back about the use cases? Like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows/Graphics [12:28] cub, photo !!!!! [12:29] http://sjolund.se/pix/cub_us_shirt.jpg [13:00] cub: The whole workflow bit is something that needs some love. We need some sort of structure for it, and documentation of course [13:01] Scott, the previous project lead was very eager to develope that part. Myself, I've been mostly worried about low level stuff for now - not prioritizing that until later [13:01] Ok, I'll them up as my two focus areas. [13:01] +put [13:01] At the end of all of our work, the workflows is the crown of all of our work [13:01] So, not a bad thing to work on [13:01] Very useful indeed [13:01] no it looks like great fun. [13:02] quite a big tree to overlook though. :P [13:02] zequence-work: You know why I want to work on offline docs? Cause I get to copy from Xubuntu ones:P [13:02] cub: I think the first problem is just finding out a system for package selection. How do we define what should be included, and what not? [13:03] I was just writing that as a question..haha [13:03] cub: Like, if we have Qtractor, do we need Rosegarden? [13:03] cub: Currently, we only provide one application for every use case [13:03] Not really? [13:03] Some applications can do multiple things [13:04] yeah some overlap [13:04] Ardour is chosen for audio work, but doesn't do midi [13:04] And that is why we have qtractor [13:04] But not Muse or Rosegarden [13:04] We have one audio editor, which is Audacity. [13:04] Anyway [13:05] LMMS does midi as well no? [13:05] * cub don't do midi. [13:05] LMMS is a noob tool. That's why it's included [13:05] It's an all in one [13:05] With instruments and everything [13:05] I'll make sure not to mention "noob tool" in the documentation though. ;) [13:06] Not only for noobs. But, let's say like this. It has builtin instruments, so you could use it just for that [13:06] * smartboyhw starts work on offline docs [13:06] And that makes it unique [13:06] So, let's say we only choose one application for every use case. Which one should we choose? By popularity, right? [13:07] cub: These are the questions I'd solve at first. And work out a system based on it [13:07] Then start mapping out usecases and stuff [13:07] makes sense [13:07] Just researching applications will probably make new usecases surface that you weren't aware even existed [13:08] That also needs to be done. Just going through all the stuff that is in the repos, for multimedia content creation [13:08] yup [13:08] At the end of all that, it would be nice to offer some sort of simple tools for supplying example workflows to user [13:09] At least in documentation [13:09] Like, for recording, mixing, etc [13:09] which in turn would make a great list for doing video tutorials. [13:09] There are also software tools for that [13:09] Yes [13:10] ladish is a session manager, which could be used to supply workflows for users. Templates for: multi-track recording, mastering, etc [13:10] yeah I've been meaning to look into that for my own good anyhow [13:10] We could script a simple tool to start these workflows. [13:10] But that comes last [13:11] cub: So, that's all I can think of. If you want to work on it, it's yours. [13:11] I'll always be in the background with ideas and feedback, as will anyone else interested, but I'm not going to tell you how to do it, or what to do [13:12] unless your work really sucks :P [13:12] but, I'm sure it won't [13:19] smartboyhw: It would be great to include that :) [13:19] zequence-work: Well, it's just editing Xubuntu's work, plus our workflows [13:20] So, it's easier [13:23] zequence-work, will do. I'll focus on getting Orca to work and the workflows. [13:24] part from the iso-testing I imagine will start when the beta 1 is released [13:29] Uh hum, I need a Ubuntu Studio icon with a welcome next to it [13:29] zequence-work, ^ think you can make it yourself or do I have to ping madeinkobaia? [13:30] Guess I have to get madeinkobaia then [13:31] There are many pics [13:32] cub: nice shirt. [13:34] OvenWerk1, you got one? [13:35] OvenWerk1, thanks! I ordered it myself. [13:36] zequence-work, I wonder if it would be possible for us to put in the documentation for 13.10 [13:37] that would mean it has to be there today right? :D [13:37] cub, NO [13:37] or until the doc-freeze? [13:37] DocumenationStringFreeze is another thing, until doc freeze. [13:37] We will have to apply for FFe in our seeds. [13:37] Let me try... [13:37] (I mean, complete it) [13:44] smartboyhw: I think we should start by including xubuntu's docs. At least as documentation for xfce. [13:45] OvenWerk1, right [13:45] We need to do that TODAY [13:45] If not, FFe. [13:46] if we alter the seeds today, tomorrows ISO (maybe even todays will have it in. [13:48] The desktop meta would get changed whenever, but ISO runs off the seeds and the meta is not really meant for installing separate anyway. [13:48] OvenWerk1, we need to tell micahg (after the seed change) to at least update the meta [13:48] He gets notified automatically [13:49] he is subscribed to it [13:49] If you have time find out what package(s) are needed. [13:50] ttoine, question: When was the first release of Ubuntu Studio released? [13:50] I mean, officially as an derivative [13:50] * OvenWerk1 is wandering away for a while... [13:50] OvenWerk1, xubuntu-docs... [13:50] That's what we need only [13:52] smartboyhw, 7.04 I would say was the first official release. http://oktyabr.wordpress.com/2007/01/27/ubuntu-studio-an-interview-with-project-manager-cory-kontros/ [13:52] cub, thanks [13:54] but ttoine and holstein were there in the beginning, no? They should know. [13:55] cub, maybe astraljava too [13:55] The founder is ttoine though [13:57] I personally don't think there's any hurry to include it for this release [13:58] Just do the work and when it's done, include it [13:58] About the docs, that is [13:59] zequence-work, it would be great if I can include it in this release. I will give it to you guys for review, of course;) [14:00] Why would it be great? [14:00] It's only supported for nine months [14:01] It's not bad to include it, not saying that [14:01] zequence-work, I want to get feedback from users themselves [14:06] You mean, you want Xubuntu to get feedback from users? IO' [14:07] I'm taking this is XFCE documentation with a bit of Ubuntu in it [14:07] zequence-work: No, I'm taking this is Xubuntu documentation with a bit of Ubuntu Studio applications and workflows in it [14:08] The most important part is the second part (our applications) [14:09] We don't have Ubuntu Studio documentation of that kind [14:09] zequence-work: Erm, that doesn't mean I can't write that part [14:10] smartboyhw: Start with the user guide in the wiki, in that case [14:10] smartboyhw: That's our documentation [14:10] zequence-work, that's wha I'm doing:) [14:10] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UserGuide [14:11] You can easily replace any non multimedia specific stuff with how Xubuntud does it [14:12] zequence-work: Yep, thanks:) [14:17] zequence-work, uh hum, we have NOTHING in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Documentation ? [14:18] Seems so [14:18] What were you looking for? [14:18] zequence-work, :( [14:19] ttoine: Any way we can remove some of the color choices in the web shop? There are some colors that just don't mix [14:20] blue print on red shirt is awesome, not matter what you say. ;) [14:20] blue on blue is not that great though [14:20] and there are many combinations where something is barely visible [14:21] black text on black background doesn't work that well for instance [14:22] zequence-work, I thought you would have written up something on that page (since before you took over as project lead you are doc lead) [14:22] smartboyhw: So, me writing all the docs is not enough for you? [14:23] zequence-work: I thought you would write about how to teach people to write the docs:P [14:23] Some year in the future, when I have time, and decided how docs should be written, perhaps [14:24] ok... [14:24] When I write the docs, I'm also figuring out how to write them at the same time [14:25] The stuff that the doc team needs to worry about is: where are all our docs and when should we edit them? [14:25] That would be things to add to that page [14:26] * smartboyhw will tell everybody where the offline docs are after he communicated with ~ubuntu-doc-committers [14:26] Since it seems that Xubuntu offline docs are held there [14:26] So am asking if I can commit too.. [14:28] zequence-work, so, are we adding xubuntu-docs to our package? [14:28] *seeds + meta [14:28] As OvenWerk1 suggests [14:29] We need to do that a.s.a.p. (before FF) [14:29] smartboyhw: I don't know what is in that package [14:29] why should we add it? [14:30] What will we get by adding it? [14:30] zequence-work, at least, basic guides on how to use Xfce desktop [14:30] (I think) [14:30] knome, I think you'd better explain a bit further^^ [14:30] Someone should install it and see how we can make use of it. [14:36] zequence-work: xubuntu-docs is Xubuntu documentation, to make it simple. It introduces of what desktop applications are there, how to go through the settings, how to do adminstrative tasks, set up scanning, internet networks, managing applications, etc. [14:37] It's like, ubuntustudio-docs not yet optimized for Studio (but for Xubuntu and Xfce) [14:42] zequence-work, I didn't find a way to do it atm [14:43] But, I found the way to suggest the default colour [14:43] * smartboyhw wants ttoine to answer when is Ubuntu Studio first released:) [14:43] smartboyhw, in the past ? [14:44] when was ? [14:44] ttoine, yep [14:44] Official [14:44] wow...october 2006 or april 2007, something like that, I would say [14:44] I was invited at november 2006 UDS for I was cofounder of US [14:45] ttoine, can you actually remember when was it first released? I mean, with an image available on Ubuntu server [14:46] I can't remember [14:47] But I am pretty sure that if you look at the first versions of the wiki page, you will find some anouncement or something like that [14:49] -.- [14:49] smartboyhw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Studio [14:49] may 2007 [14:49] ttoine, got it [14:50] -.- May => 7.04!? [14:57] smartboyhw, which it said in the article I gave you. The interview with Cory. [14:57] cub, weird:p [14:58] 32 bit 7.04, 64 bit 7.10. [15:52] hey ive got a bunch of free time over the next couple weeks, if i can get a list of things to be done on the website, i can work via us.nickgermaine.ca to make some changes, then provide the code to someone to enter into the actual website [16:03] hi nickg_ [16:03] hey [16:03] ive been super busy lately [16:04] Hello nickg_ [16:05] hey [16:09] nickg_: I think the most work will be needed in time for 14.04. But, we haven't been working on the artwork yet [16:09] ok [16:09] just let me know what is needed, and ill do it up [16:10] nickg_: So, for now, the only thing I can think of is fixing the grey text, which you already worked on [16:11] yah hah i was thinking about that last night actually, there was a US post on facebook about merch, so i went to the site, and saw the date and etc of the post and it is awful light [16:12] Yes, would be nice to make it easier to read [16:12] I could imagine trying some different things with the design too [16:12] for sure, i work til 8 Atlantic tonight, ill do that up tonight [16:13] heres a question: what about like, a topbar on the site that spans 100% of the screen but the navigation is only set to like 1000px or whatever the main content areas width [16:13] can i send you a screenshot of the design im working on for my own site? its under maintainance mode [16:13] here hold on [16:14] http://nickgermaine.ca/ can you see the site, i turned off maintanance mode [16:14] Sure [16:15] n that sites nowhere near finished, just got some of the basics done on it right now [16:15] nickg_: Here's my staging site http://www.ubuntustudio.mousike.me/ [16:16] nickg_: The logo is new. You should get it and add it to your version as well [16:16] This one http://www.ubuntustudio.mousike.me/wp-content/themes/ubuntustudio-wp-devel/img/us-logo.png [16:16]