[00:08] <wilee-nilee> Yu-Yu, This has not been released did you know that?
[00:09] <Yu-Yu> Hi. I installed updates tonigh and lost my kbd layout switching. With kbdd I succeed in switching, while GNOME does not let me use it.
[00:09] <Yu-Yu> Any hints on that?
[00:10] <Yu-Yu> wilee-nilee: Mew.
[00:10] <wilee-nilee> Yu-Yu, sorry hit the close by accident, I'm not up on key placement.
[00:11] <Yu-Yu> wilee-nilee: What languages do you support while chatting? ;D
[00:12] <wilee-nilee> these are english channels, but there are a number of others in various languages, not sure in the development area though.
[00:12] <Yu-Yu> No problem. So, any guess?
[00:13] <wilee-nilee> not really I have never had to reassign keys myself, I would post your question again here though.
[00:14] <Yu-Yu> Also, bluetooth started to work worse, you know.
[00:17] <Yu-Yu> Can be that because of removing unnecessary weird things like friends* and unity-…something…?
[00:20]  * Yu-Yu speaks to the silence.
[01:27] <snadge> known issues with modem-manager and 3g/4g modems at the moment?
[01:27] <snadge> i have a sierra airport 320U .. which works in windows on the same pc
[01:28] <snadge> ubuntu detects it.. network manager can configure it, and attempt to bring up a connection
[01:28] <snadge> the lights go solid, but then it errors
[01:29] <snadge> if i try to connect manually with minicom, and AT command.. it succeeds, i have a wwan0 interface.. but no dhcp or activity over it
[01:30] <carif> will python3 be the default python for 13.10?
[01:44] <snadge> i see, it works fine on previous version of ubuntu.. must be some kind of driver issue *shrug*
[01:59] <GiGaHuRtZ> Anyone running kubuntu, WITH a laptop/netbook?
[01:59] <GiGaHuRtZ> ie. something with a touchpad
[01:59] <GiGaHuRtZ> Currently, if I go into input devices, and hit touchpad, I get a crash.
[02:06] <GiGaHuRtZ> Sorry had to reconnect
[02:55] <snadge> how can i tell what flavour of ubuntu has been installed
[02:55] <snadge> eg.. xubuntu, desktop, alternate..etc
[02:55] <snadge> ie, how it was installed
[02:56] <holstein> snadge: the iso should be labeled as such..
[02:56] <snadge> i mean an existing random ubuntu install that i know nothing about
[02:57] <snadge> i can tell that its maverick for example, i just dont know if it was the desktop, or server
[02:57] <snadge> the desktop interface looks to be like an old version of unity with metacity
[02:57] <holstein> snadge: i wouldnt trsut it.. and maverick, for example, is not supported anymore
[02:57] <holstein> trust*
[02:57] <snadge> i dont need to trust it.. im about to re-install it
[02:57] <snadge> i just wouldn't mind knowing if it was a desktop release.. or server or alternate install with custom packages etc
[02:58] <holstein> snadge: you wont need to know this information to reinsatll https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckingYourUbuntuVersion
[02:58] <holstein> if it has a desktop interfaces, its not a server version
[02:58] <snadge> maybe its xubuntu, i dont know
[02:58] <holstein> all the ubuntu's are the same repos.. the official ones.. server, xubuntu, ubuntu.. kubuntu
[02:58] <snadge> does that use metacity?
[02:59] <holstein> the iso used wont show up either.. though, there would be tells, potentially
[02:59] <snadge> i might go with xubuntu 12.04
[03:00] <snadge> since thats fairly light weight and its actually a custom box thats designed to pump water
[03:00] <snadge> i should take a pic of it, has an orange flashing light on top.. all these relays and switches, pump motors, voltage regulators and stuff
[03:00] <holstein> snadge: they are all ubuntu.. this is a channel specific to the upcoming release
[10:49] <Yu-Yu> Hi.
[11:23] <Yu-Yu> Hi. Thanks to all who broke it last night that those using WMs like awesome were lost in guesses of how do they switch keyboard layouts and log in using their old session.
[11:26] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[11:27] <Yu-Yu> Hi.
[11:27] <Yu-Yu> Does anyone know, why ever one did so?
[11:27] <BluesKaj> Yu-Yu, did what ?
[11:30] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: Last night I fetched updates, and keyboard layout ceased to switch. And when I restarted computer, lightDM/GDM greeters does not show me my awesome xsession.
[11:34] <ikonia> Yu-Yu: that's the nature of using beta software, it will break
[11:35] <Yu-Yu> ikonia: Sure?
[11:35] <ikonia> pretty sure beta software will break from time to time.....
[11:35] <BluesKaj> Yu-Yu, I leave my KB layout as it is.
[11:36] <Yu-Yu> ikonia: And non-beta won't?
[11:36] <ikonia> certainly it shouldn't and major bugs like "keyboard layouts changes" should not be present
[11:36] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: And how's your layout?
[11:36] <BluesKaj> it's fine
[11:36] <Yu-Yu> ikonia: lol. You made me LMAO.
[11:37] <BluesKaj> :)
[11:37] <ikonia> not sure why, it' a pretty well known process of dev/alpha/beta/release - going in order of stability
[11:37] <Yu-Yu> ikonia: Do you know Ubuntu for at least two years?
[11:37] <ikonia> yes,
[11:38] <BluesKaj> Yu-Yu, are you on 12.04 ?
[11:39] <Yu-Yu> ikonia: You should be kidding. They change things, and you get the bugs of changing as soon as you upgrade.
[11:39] <ikonia> Yu-Yu: I'm sorry no, they follow the same development cycle as they always have.
[11:39] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: In #ubuntu+1?
[11:40] <BluesKaj> Yu-Yu, you hinted that you're using 12.04 in #ubuntu
[11:40] <ikonia> he also hinted that he was using 13.10 - I'm also confused
[11:41] <BluesKaj> well. perhaps both ?
[11:41] <ikonia> who knows
[11:41] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: Did you lie or read unclearly?
[11:42] <BluesKaj> I use 13.04 as my stable OS , but I'm on 13.10 mostly
[11:42] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: I am using 13.10 on a laptop and 13.04 x64 on a router.
[11:43] <BluesKaj> no lies Yu-Yu , you hinted , I didn't say you actually did
[11:43] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: Quote that. Please.
[11:43] <BluesKaj> never mind Yu-Yu , let's drop this ..we're not accomplishing anythingf
[11:46] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: You led us to that branch, your the decision to leave it is.
[11:47] <BluesKaj> Yu-Yu, "Why not everyone use 12.04 so, tell me?" ...that's what we call a "hint" in English
[11:47] <Yu-Yu> (15:33:52) sepero: Yu-Yu: That's why you will make the right choice and go with 12.04
[11:47] <Yu-Yu> (15:34:33) sepero: Yu-Yu: You will be happy
[11:48] <BluesKaj> enough
[11:48] <bazhang> Yu-Yu, thats enough
[11:48] <Yu-Yu> We call it «misreading» or «misunderstanding», ain't it so?
[11:48] <Yu-Yu> Ok.
[12:27] <DJJeff> this is really starting to piss me off seems like when im in a root shell I cant start certain apps
[12:27] <DJJeff> it complains that it cant connect to D-BUS this and D-BUS that
[12:27] <DJJeff> I noticed this... in env
[12:27] <DJJeff> DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-efnmAYuBN0
[12:28] <DJJeff> I dont have any dbus related files in /tmp/
[12:28]  * penguin42 guesses that's why it can't connect to them
[12:29] <DJJeff> why dont I have dbus in my /tmp ?
[12:29] <DJJeff> why oh why is it here instead..... /home/<user>/.dbus/session-bus/c089ae5050437e898f79ca8352202df1-0
[12:30] <penguin42> DJJeff: Hmm so I don't know enough about how dbus works; but it makes sense to me that there is a session dbus that's owned by the user who owns that session
[12:31] <DJJeff> I can start gedit I can sudo start gedit but when im root I cant start gedit?
[12:32] <DJJeff> makes me scratch my head till it bleeds
[12:32] <penguin42> DJJeff: Try using gsudo
[12:32] <Yu-Yu> bb
[12:32] <penguin42> (Is it g or gnome or something like that)
[12:32] <Yu-Yu> gksudo
[12:32] <penguin42> that's the fella
[12:32] <DJJeff> for the longest time I did gksu gedit
[12:32] <Yu-Yu> It's gksu or gksudo.
[12:33] <DJJeff> but when I do it on ubuntu 13.10 it takes 45 seconds to start
[12:33] <DJJeff> and bitches even more about D *FUCKING* BUS
[12:33] <Yu-Yu> DJJeff: Still you told us nothing on why ever you do so. Probably, you'll find doing «sudo vim …» more useful, not?
[12:35] <AlanBell> DJJeff: could we perhaps sort out the problem in a less sweary way please
[12:35] <DJJeff> just frustrated cause by mistake I purged libc6-i386 today and broke my system
[12:36] <DJJeff> had to boot into livecd to reinstall that crap
[12:36] <AlanBell> so, from a root shell, launching x applications is not going to work well, that is why using gksudo is the right way to run gtk applications from a terminal
[12:37] <AlanBell> so they then have both root access and know where they came from
[12:37] <DJJeff> but what does not make sense is ubuntu 13.04 and lower
[12:37] <AlanBell> which probably sorts out the dbus thing, but TBH I don't do that much,
[12:37] <DJJeff> I was able to start gtk apps as root
[12:37] <AlanBell> yeah, but that is the wrong way
[12:38] <DJJeff> I dont care if its the wrong way its the way im used too
[12:38] <DJJeff> cause I use backtrack linux and kali linux alot
[12:38] <AlanBell> the app will now export it's menu structure over dbus so that the global menu picks it up and renders the menu items, then you click them and the global menu in your session tells the app what you clicked
[12:38] <DJJeff> and they only run as root cause they are PEN TEST distro
[12:38] <Yu-Yu> DJJeff: Probably, then you don't have to ask on it here?
[12:40] <AlanBell> there are probably other things that mean GUI apps launched with root permissions need to be launched properly, but the global menu is the most obvious to me
[12:40] <penguin42> DJJeff: The thing is the world has got a lot more complex in the last 10 years plus; so your app now wants to connect to dbus and other stuff; so it's not just DISPLAY that needs setting correctly
[12:41] <penguin42> DJJeff: But on the plus side it means a lot more stuff works in the way of users being able to hot plug and things
[12:41] <AlanBell> that said, gksudo gedit for me runs without a global menu and falls back to an app menu
[12:41] <penguin42> AlanBell: Bonus!
[12:42] <DJJeff> I have a couple 17,000 line bash scripts that were written to run as root and now I have to redo them to include sudo and gksu
[12:42] <AlanBell> indeed, I still think global menu is copying a bug in Mac OS X
[12:42] <penguin42> DJJeff: Hang on, not necessarily
[12:43] <penguin42> DJJeff: You used to run the whole script as root?
[12:43] <DJJeff> root@ubuntu:~# ./myscript.sh
[12:44] <DJJeff> now I have todo <user>@ubuntu:~$ sudo sh myscript.sh
[12:44] <AlanBell> me@ubuntu:~$ gksudo ./myscript.sh would be my first
[12:45] <penguin42> DJJeff: Well you used to have to do a su or sudo to get the root shell before?
@ubuntu:~$ sudo -i   would drop to a root shell yes
[12:47] <DJJeff> hrmmmmmmm doing sudo -i seems to let gtk apps start with no errors
[12:48] <penguin42> DJJeff: I suspect you're finding it's unsetting the DBUS variables
[12:48] <DJJeff> I have no clue what dbus is or what it does
[12:49] <DJJeff> I just want things to work
[12:49] <penguin42> DJJeff: Well read!
[12:49] <penguin42> DJJeff: Dbus is a comms mechanism for a load of stuff
[12:49] <penguin42> DJJeff: There are a pair of dbus busses, one is used by the system to say things like 'hey someone just plugged in a thumb drive'
[12:49] <AlanBell> it is a message passing thing, that unity uses heavily, all the launcher, global menu, indicators use it, so most GUI apps with some unity integration use dbus
[12:50] <AlanBell> you can browse it with the d-feet application
[12:50] <penguin42> DJJeff: There's another 'session' dbus where you get messages like 'someone wants to shutdown' or 'someone has just started the music player and it's currently on ....'
[12:50] <DJJeff> I dont use that crap you call unity
[12:50] <DJJeff> I use XFCE (Xubuntu)
[12:50] <penguin42> DJJeff: But it's not just used by unity, it's used by most stuff now
[12:51] <penguin42> DJJeff: it just turned out X really didn't do enough for comms between apps
[12:51] <Yu-Yu> Guess I have to leave.
[12:51] <Yu-Yu> Bye, have a nice day,
[12:52] <penguin42> DJJeff: For a lot of stuff it's not essential; so your gedit will probably fine if you just unset the dbus env variables, but there are other things that rely on it
[12:53] <DJJeff> so for now this one will remain broken....
[12:53] <DJJeff> DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-efnmAYuBN0
[12:54] <penguin42> DJJeff: You can probably just unset that env variable
[12:54] <DJJeff> it comes back after a reboot
[12:54] <penguin42> DJJeff: I mean in your script
[12:57] <penguin42> DJJeff: Or just use gksudo rather than sudo and that should also sort all this crap out for you
[12:58] <DJJeff> I should not have rushed 13.10
[12:58] <DJJeff> worked just fine in 13.04
[12:58] <penguin42> hmm, I wonder why it's different in 13.10 from 13.04
[12:59] <penguin42> I didn't think dbus stuff had changed
[13:00] <DJJeff> I just booted 13.04 .iso in Virtualbox just to check and yup it works without D-BUS errors
[13:00] <penguin42> DJJeff: In the 13.04 world does the same env variable exist and does the /tmp file exist?
[13:03] <DJJeff> hrmmmm it also has this guid=
[13:12] <DJJeff> I think im starting to understand why im getting frustrated.....
[13:12] <DJJeff> doing just $ su
[13:12] <DJJeff> and D-BUS errors like crazy
[13:12] <DJJeff> doing $ gksu gnome-terminal
[13:12] <DJJeff> and you get root shell with no errors
[13:12] <DJJeff> and apps start and just work
[13:13] <DJJeff> the problem with 13.10 is that gksu <any app>
[13:13] <DJJeff> takes 45+ seconds to start
[13:13] <penguin42> DJJeff: Hmm ok, that's a bit odd - I wonder what it's doing
[13:13] <DJJeff> and it has nothing todo with dbus and its errors
[13:14] <penguin42> DJJeff: That sounds like a timeout for something
[13:14] <penguin42> DJJeff: For reference gksu gedit   is happening immediately here (although I'm under KDE)
[13:16] <DJJeff> ** (gedit:8969): WARNING **: Couldn't connect to accessibility bus: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-4hn7JnWW8v: Connection refused
[13:16] <penguin42> DJJeff: OK, go back a step - reboot, then use gksu gedit as the first thing you do after logging in, don't do any gui stuff as plain sudo
[13:17] <penguin42> DJJeff: You can get a problem where when you run a gui app as root without the special su's it can screw up the perms/existing bus
[14:36] <bcurtiswx> in order to use mir in saucy, is it as simple as installing unity-system-compositor ?
[14:53] <BluesKaj> bcurtiswx, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Testing/Mir
[14:55] <bcurtiswx> BluesKaj, that for ubuntu touch, i'm talking desktop
[14:55] <BluesKaj> oh sorry
[14:55] <Yu-Yu> bcurtiswx, BluesKaj: +1.
[14:55] <Yu-Yu> Wanna know.
[14:57] <BluesKaj> I'm not a unity/gnome user , so I guess I shouldn't meddle  :)
[14:57]  * penguin42 should try it and also wayland
[14:58]  * BluesKaj tries to mind his own business and desktop
[14:58] <BluesKaj> penguin42, have you tried wayland yet ?
[14:59] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: I am not a unity user, so? Will Mir be available for Unity only?
[14:59] <penguin42> BluesKaj: No
[14:59] <penguin42> Yu-Yu: You can run other desktops on it
[15:00] <penguin42> Yu-Yu: There is a thing called XMir that's an X server built on top of Mir
[15:00] <Yu-Yu> Okay, penguin42. Will be it more comfortable?
[15:00] <penguin42> comfortable?
[15:08] <bcurtiswx> I guess mir doesn't work if you use NVIDIA drivers
[15:09] <penguin42> bcurtiswx: I don't know, my vague understanding was that Mir currently just used X drivers
[15:10] <bcurtiswx> well, from what I read, it's a "success" test if you use NVIDIA and it pushes you back to X
[15:10] <penguin42> ah
[15:20] <Daekdroom> bcurtiswx, closed-source NVIDIA and ATI drivers don't work with Mir yet. They lack EGL support.
[15:22] <bcurtiswx> Daekdroom, OK thanks.
[15:22] <ikonia> does the open ones work at all ?
[15:22] <Daekdroom> ikonia, yeah. Apparently there are issues with Nvidia and Radeon, however.
[15:22] <Daekdroom> (or was it the other way around and Intel has bugs currently? :S)
[15:28] <penguin42> intel always has bugs; but there again things like Unity and Mir seem to be particularly good at finding them, which is good
[15:35] <ikonia> I find the intel xorg components excellent, so I'm curious to how they stack up with the mir stack
[15:36] <penguin42> ikonia: Generally but I do have occasional crashes on them
[15:37] <ikonia> penguin42: have you tried them with mir yet?
[15:43] <penguin42> no
[16:02] <Yu-Yu> Folks, will that Mir replace X or not?
[16:06] <BluesKaj> Yu-Yu, eventually , think the idea is to replace X by 14.04
[16:08] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: It may be ok.
[16:11] <BluesKaj> well , I'm not too concerned since I'm on KDE :)
[16:13] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: The idea may be to get rid of years of X legacy bugs and weirdness.
[16:15] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: And your replica sounds like «— The ship is sinking! We all gonna die! — I don't care, I wear red hat.»… Don't you think so?
[16:16] <BluesKaj> Yu-Yu, canonical has chosen it's own path by going with mir , most other distos are going with wayland , including kubuntu.
[16:20] <BluesKaj> kubuntu is no longer supported by canonical , it's under blue systems now.
[16:21] <Yu-Yu> Wayland…
[16:22] <BluesKaj> bbl
[16:26] <Yu-Yu> BluesKaj: I don't think they won't let us use Wayland and/or Mir at our will.
[18:36] <genii> BluesKaj: Could you do me a favour and see if System Settings... Hardware... Input devices.... Touchpad      opens or crashes for you?
[18:38] <Yu-Yu> genii: In KDE?
[18:38] <genii> Yu-Yu: Yes, I know he uses it
[18:38] <BluesKaj> genii,yes , it segfaults , but I'm on a desktop
[18:39]  * penguin42 doesn't have the touchpad entry
[18:40] <penguin42> and it works on my opensuse laptop
[18:41] <Yu-Yu> genii: Can I do a thing for you?
[18:42] <ikonia> genii: someone else was reporting this last night, I had a look and there was a bug for it
[18:44]  * Yu-Yu has just tested it with {mate|gnome}-control-center.
[18:44] <genii> ikonia: OK, cool.
[18:44] <BluesKaj> dunno why it's even installed
[18:44] <genii> ikonia: Do you remember the bug number?
[18:44] <ikonia> genii: not without looking but it was there
[18:45] <genii> Installing debug symbols now to get a better report for it but wanted to see if someone already did that in the current one first
[18:53] <genii> Meh. Additional error installing symbols. /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs5-dbg_4%3a4.11.0-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libkdeui.so.5.11.0', which is also in package libkdeui5-dbgsym 4:4.11.0-0ubuntu1
[18:59] <Maple__> Are torrents available for Saucy images?
[19:00] <Maple__> Seems like it's a no.
[19:00] <IdleOne> cdimages.ubuntu.com ?
[19:01] <IdleOne> yup
[19:01] <IdleOne> oh no. seems there are no torrents
[19:01] <Yu-Yu> Maple__: Should I make one?
[19:02] <IdleOne> no
[19:03] <Maple__> Nah, I'm satisfied with the download speed...for now.
[19:03] <Yu-Yu> It's only sources ISO files.
[20:14] <GiGaHuRtZ> Well, kubuntu 13.10 definitely has some mission critical bugs regardless of what people told me here about being decently stable :(
[20:15] <GiGaHuRtZ> Touchpad properties in input devices gives instant crash :(
[20:15] <GiGaHuRtZ> Back to 13.04 with KDE ppa's enabled thankfully
[20:15] <penguin42> GiGaHuRtZ: Well no one said it hasn't got any bad bugs - but I haven't hit any!
[20:15] <penguin42> but I haven't got a touchpad on my kubuntu box
[20:15] <GiGaHuRtZ> ;)
[20:16] <GiGaHuRtZ> its alright
[20:16] <GiGaHuRtZ> I dont mind bugs except when the totally get in my way
[20:16] <GiGaHuRtZ> my buildbox has a desktop, but I prefer to interface with it by using my thinkpad
[20:17] <penguin42> GiGaHuRtZ: You could try submitting a bug to kde.org
[20:17] <GiGaHuRtZ> i reported to the ML  of kubuntu, via advice from kde devs
[20:18] <GiGaHuRtZ> Because it works fine in 4.11 on 13.04
[20:18] <GiGaHuRtZ> And ive been running every KDE ppa for ubuntu besides the poackage staging (do not use) for months of 13.04 with no issues
[20:19] <genii> GiGaHuRtZ: Yes, I found that someone already filed that bug at KDE now, I added to it. 324002
[20:20] <genii> GiGaHuRtZ: ( the systemsettings touchpad crash )
[20:20] <GiGaHuRtZ> k
[20:20] <GiGaHuRtZ> Great :)
[23:15] <tex_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lk9x5UJJDNY
[23:16] <IdleOne> tex_: what does that link have to do with Ubuntu?
[23:16] <tex_> it needs protection my friend ... the ubuntu project
[23:16] <tex_> :)
[23:17] <tex_> or somebody anyway
[23:17] <tex_> bb
[23:17] <tex_> no hard feelings
[23:17] <IdleOne> yeah well we try not to force our religious beliefs on anyone and would appreciate you giving us the same freedoms
[23:17] <tex_> bb
[23:17] <tex_> ok
[23:18] <tex_> excuse my provoacative behaviour
[23:18] <tex_> :pppp
[23:18] <tex_> bb
[23:18] <tex_> :)
[23:19] <penguin42> IdleOne: He seems to be going around loads of channels
[23:19] <IdleOne> penguin42: they always do :/