wilee-nileeYu-Yu, This has not been released did you know that?00:08
Yu-YuHi. I installed updates tonigh and lost my kbd layout switching. With kbdd I succeed in switching, while GNOME does not let me use it.00:09
Yu-YuAny hints on that?00:09
Yu-Yuwilee-nilee: Mew.00:10
wilee-nileeYu-Yu, sorry hit the close by accident, I'm not up on key placement.00:10
Yu-Yuwilee-nilee: What languages do you support while chatting? ;D00:11
wilee-nileethese are english channels, but there are a number of others in various languages, not sure in the development area though.00:12
Yu-YuNo problem. So, any guess?00:12
wilee-nileenot really I have never had to reassign keys myself, I would post your question again here though.00:13
Yu-YuAlso, bluetooth started to work worse, you know.00:14
Yu-YuCan be that because of removing unnecessary weird things like friends* and unity-…something…?00:17
* Yu-Yu speaks to the silence.00:20
snadgeknown issues with modem-manager and 3g/4g modems at the moment?01:27
snadgei have a sierra airport 320U .. which works in windows on the same pc01:27
snadgeubuntu detects it.. network manager can configure it, and attempt to bring up a connection01:28
snadgethe lights go solid, but then it errors01:28
snadgeif i try to connect manually with minicom, and AT command.. it succeeds, i have a wwan0 interface.. but no dhcp or activity over it01:29
carifwill python3 be the default python for 13.10?01:30
snadgei see, it works fine on previous version of ubuntu.. must be some kind of driver issue *shrug*01:44
GiGaHuRtZAnyone running kubuntu, WITH a laptop/netbook?01:59
GiGaHuRtZie. something with a touchpad01:59
GiGaHuRtZCurrently, if I go into input devices, and hit touchpad, I get a crash.01:59
GiGaHuRtZSorry had to reconnect02:06
snadgehow can i tell what flavour of ubuntu has been installed02:55
snadgeeg.. xubuntu, desktop, alternate..etc02:55
snadgeie, how it was installed02:55
holsteinsnadge: the iso should be labeled as such..02:56
snadgei mean an existing random ubuntu install that i know nothing about02:56
snadgei can tell that its maverick for example, i just dont know if it was the desktop, or server02:57
snadgethe desktop interface looks to be like an old version of unity with metacity02:57
holsteinsnadge: i wouldnt trsut it.. and maverick, for example, is not supported anymore02:57
snadgei dont need to trust it.. im about to re-install it02:57
snadgei just wouldn't mind knowing if it was a desktop release.. or server or alternate install with custom packages etc02:57
holsteinsnadge: you wont need to know this information to reinsatll https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CheckingYourUbuntuVersion02:58
holsteinif it has a desktop interfaces, its not a server version02:58
snadgemaybe its xubuntu, i dont know02:58
holsteinall the ubuntu's are the same repos.. the official ones.. server, xubuntu, ubuntu.. kubuntu02:58
snadgedoes that use metacity?02:58
holsteinthe iso used wont show up either.. though, there would be tells, potentially02:59
snadgei might go with xubuntu 12.0402:59
snadgesince thats fairly light weight and its actually a custom box thats designed to pump water03:00
snadgei should take a pic of it, has an orange flashing light on top.. all these relays and switches, pump motors, voltage regulators and stuff03:00
holsteinsnadge: they are all ubuntu.. this is a channel specific to the upcoming release03:00
=== paddymahoney is now known as Guest48159
=== jibel_ is now known as jibel
=== steveire_ is now known as steveire
Yu-YuHi. Thanks to all who broke it last night that those using WMs like awesome were lost in guesses of how do they switch keyboard layouts and log in using their old session.11:23
BluesKaj'Morning all11:26
Yu-YuDoes anyone know, why ever one did so?11:27
BluesKajYu-Yu, did what ?11:27
Yu-YuBluesKaj: Last night I fetched updates, and keyboard layout ceased to switch. And when I restarted computer, lightDM/GDM greeters does not show me my awesome xsession.11:30
ikoniaYu-Yu: that's the nature of using beta software, it will break11:34
Yu-Yuikonia: Sure?11:35
ikoniapretty sure beta software will break from time to time.....11:35
BluesKajYu-Yu, I leave my KB layout as it is.11:35
Yu-Yuikonia: And non-beta won't?11:36
ikoniacertainly it shouldn't and major bugs like "keyboard layouts changes" should not be present11:36
Yu-YuBluesKaj: And how's your layout?11:36
BluesKajit's fine11:36
Yu-Yuikonia: lol. You made me LMAO.11:36
ikonianot sure why, it' a pretty well known process of dev/alpha/beta/release - going in order of stability11:37
Yu-Yuikonia: Do you know Ubuntu for at least two years?11:37
BluesKajYu-Yu, are you on 12.04 ?11:38
Yu-Yuikonia: You should be kidding. They change things, and you get the bugs of changing as soon as you upgrade.11:39
ikoniaYu-Yu: I'm sorry no, they follow the same development cycle as they always have.11:39
Yu-YuBluesKaj: In #ubuntu+1?11:39
BluesKajYu-Yu, you hinted that you're using 12.04 in #ubuntu11:40
ikoniahe also hinted that he was using 13.10 - I'm also confused11:40
BluesKajwell. perhaps both ?11:41
ikoniawho knows11:41
Yu-YuBluesKaj: Did you lie or read unclearly?11:41
BluesKajI use 13.04 as my stable OS , but I'm on 13.10 mostly11:42
Yu-YuBluesKaj: I am using 13.10 on a laptop and 13.04 x64 on a router.11:42
BluesKajno lies Yu-Yu , you hinted , I didn't say you actually did11:43
Yu-YuBluesKaj: Quote that. Please.11:43
BluesKajnever mind Yu-Yu , let's drop this ..we're not accomplishing anythingf11:43
Yu-YuBluesKaj: You led us to that branch, your the decision to leave it is.11:46
BluesKajYu-Yu, "Why not everyone use 12.04 so, tell me?" ...that's what we call a "hint" in English11:47
Yu-Yu(15:33:52) sepero: Yu-Yu: That's why you will make the right choice and go with 12.0411:47
Yu-Yu(15:34:33) sepero: Yu-Yu: You will be happy11:47
bazhangYu-Yu, thats enough11:48
Yu-YuWe call it «misreading» or «misunderstanding», ain't it so?11:48
DJJeffthis is really starting to piss me off seems like when im in a root shell I cant start certain apps12:27
DJJeffit complains that it cant connect to D-BUS this and D-BUS that12:27
DJJeffI noticed this... in env12:27
DJJeffI dont have any dbus related files in /tmp/12:28
* penguin42 guesses that's why it can't connect to them12:28
DJJeffwhy dont I have dbus in my /tmp ?12:29
DJJeffwhy oh why is it here instead..... /home/<user>/.dbus/session-bus/c089ae5050437e898f79ca8352202df1-012:29
penguin42DJJeff: Hmm so I don't know enough about how dbus works; but it makes sense to me that there is a session dbus that's owned by the user who owns that session12:30
DJJeffI can start gedit I can sudo start gedit but when im root I cant start gedit?12:31
DJJeffmakes me scratch my head till it bleeds12:32
penguin42DJJeff: Try using gsudo12:32
penguin42(Is it g or gnome or something like that)12:32
penguin42that's the fella12:32
DJJefffor the longest time I did gksu gedit12:32
Yu-YuIt's gksu or gksudo.12:32
DJJeffbut when I do it on ubuntu 13.10 it takes 45 seconds to start12:33
DJJeffand bitches even more about D *FUCKING* BUS12:33
Yu-YuDJJeff: Still you told us nothing on why ever you do so. Probably, you'll find doing «sudo vim …» more useful, not?12:33
AlanBellDJJeff: could we perhaps sort out the problem in a less sweary way please12:35
DJJeffjust frustrated cause by mistake I purged libc6-i386 today and broke my system12:35
DJJeffhad to boot into livecd to reinstall that crap12:36
AlanBellso, from a root shell, launching x applications is not going to work well, that is why using gksudo is the right way to run gtk applications from a terminal12:36
AlanBellso they then have both root access and know where they came from12:37
DJJeffbut what does not make sense is ubuntu 13.04 and lower12:37
AlanBellwhich probably sorts out the dbus thing, but TBH I don't do that much,12:37
DJJeffI was able to start gtk apps as root12:37
AlanBellyeah, but that is the wrong way12:37
DJJeffI dont care if its the wrong way its the way im used too12:38
DJJeffcause I use backtrack linux and kali linux alot12:38
AlanBellthe app will now export it's menu structure over dbus so that the global menu picks it up and renders the menu items, then you click them and the global menu in your session tells the app what you clicked12:38
DJJeffand they only run as root cause they are PEN TEST distro12:38
Yu-YuDJJeff: Probably, then you don't have to ask on it here?12:38
AlanBellthere are probably other things that mean GUI apps launched with root permissions need to be launched properly, but the global menu is the most obvious to me12:40
penguin42DJJeff: The thing is the world has got a lot more complex in the last 10 years plus; so your app now wants to connect to dbus and other stuff; so it's not just DISPLAY that needs setting correctly12:40
penguin42DJJeff: But on the plus side it means a lot more stuff works in the way of users being able to hot plug and things12:41
AlanBellthat said, gksudo gedit for me runs without a global menu and falls back to an app menu12:41
penguin42AlanBell: Bonus!12:41
DJJeffI have a couple 17,000 line bash scripts that were written to run as root and now I have to redo them to include sudo and gksu12:42
AlanBellindeed, I still think global menu is copying a bug in Mac OS X12:42
penguin42DJJeff: Hang on, not necessarily12:42
penguin42DJJeff: You used to run the whole script as root?12:43
DJJeffroot@ubuntu:~# ./myscript.sh12:43
DJJeffnow I have todo <user>@ubuntu:~$ sudo sh myscript.sh12:44
AlanBellme@ubuntu:~$ gksudo ./myscript.sh would be my first12:44
penguin42DJJeff: Well you used to have to do a su or sudo to get the root shell before?12:45
DJJeff<user>@ubuntu:~$ sudo -i   would drop to a root shell yes12:46
DJJeffhrmmmmmmm doing sudo -i seems to let gtk apps start with no errors12:47
penguin42DJJeff: I suspect you're finding it's unsetting the DBUS variables12:48
DJJeffI have no clue what dbus is or what it does12:48
DJJeffI just want things to work12:49
penguin42DJJeff: Well read!12:49
penguin42DJJeff: Dbus is a comms mechanism for a load of stuff12:49
penguin42DJJeff: There are a pair of dbus busses, one is used by the system to say things like 'hey someone just plugged in a thumb drive'12:49
AlanBellit is a message passing thing, that unity uses heavily, all the launcher, global menu, indicators use it, so most GUI apps with some unity integration use dbus12:49
AlanBellyou can browse it with the d-feet application12:50
penguin42DJJeff: There's another 'session' dbus where you get messages like 'someone wants to shutdown' or 'someone has just started the music player and it's currently on ....'12:50
DJJeffI dont use that crap you call unity12:50
DJJeffI use XFCE (Xubuntu)12:50
penguin42DJJeff: But it's not just used by unity, it's used by most stuff now12:50
penguin42DJJeff: it just turned out X really didn't do enough for comms between apps12:51
Yu-YuGuess I have to leave.12:51
Yu-YuBye, have a nice day,12:51
penguin42DJJeff: For a lot of stuff it's not essential; so your gedit will probably fine if you just unset the dbus env variables, but there are other things that rely on it12:52
DJJeffso for now this one will remain broken....12:53
penguin42DJJeff: You can probably just unset that env variable12:54
DJJeffit comes back after a reboot12:54
penguin42DJJeff: I mean in your script12:54
penguin42DJJeff: Or just use gksudo rather than sudo and that should also sort all this crap out for you12:57
DJJeffI should not have rushed 13.1012:58
DJJeffworked just fine in 13.0412:58
penguin42hmm, I wonder why it's different in 13.10 from 13.0412:58
penguin42I didn't think dbus stuff had changed12:59
DJJeffI just booted 13.04 .iso in Virtualbox just to check and yup it works without D-BUS errors13:00
penguin42DJJeff: In the 13.04 world does the same env variable exist and does the /tmp file exist?13:00
DJJeffhrmmmm it also has this guid=13:03
DJJeffI think im starting to understand why im getting frustrated.....13:12
DJJeffdoing just $ su13:12
DJJeffand D-BUS errors like crazy13:12
DJJeffdoing $ gksu gnome-terminal13:12
DJJeffand you get root shell with no errors13:12
DJJeffand apps start and just work13:12
DJJeffthe problem with 13.10 is that gksu <any app>13:13
DJJefftakes 45+ seconds to start13:13
penguin42DJJeff: Hmm ok, that's a bit odd - I wonder what it's doing13:13
DJJeffand it has nothing todo with dbus and its errors13:13
penguin42DJJeff: That sounds like a timeout for something13:14
penguin42DJJeff: For reference gksu gedit   is happening immediately here (although I'm under KDE)13:14
DJJeff** (gedit:8969): WARNING **: Couldn't connect to accessibility bus: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-4hn7JnWW8v: Connection refused13:16
penguin42DJJeff: OK, go back a step - reboot, then use gksu gedit as the first thing you do after logging in, don't do any gui stuff as plain sudo13:16
penguin42DJJeff: You can get a problem where when you run a gui app as root without the special su's it can screw up the perms/existing bus13:17
bcurtiswxin order to use mir in saucy, is it as simple as installing unity-system-compositor ?14:36
BluesKajbcurtiswx, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Testing/Mir14:53
bcurtiswxBluesKaj, that for ubuntu touch, i'm talking desktop14:55
BluesKajoh sorry14:55
Yu-Yubcurtiswx, BluesKaj: +1.14:55
Yu-YuWanna know.14:55
BluesKajI'm not a unity/gnome user , so I guess I shouldn't meddle  :)14:57
* penguin42 should try it and also wayland14:57
* BluesKaj tries to mind his own business and desktop14:58
BluesKajpenguin42, have you tried wayland yet ?14:58
Yu-YuBluesKaj: I am not a unity user, so? Will Mir be available for Unity only?14:59
penguin42BluesKaj: No14:59
penguin42Yu-Yu: You can run other desktops on it14:59
penguin42Yu-Yu: There is a thing called XMir that's an X server built on top of Mir15:00
Yu-YuOkay, penguin42. Will be it more comfortable?15:00
=== smartboyhw_ is now known as smartboyhw
bcurtiswxI guess mir doesn't work if you use NVIDIA drivers15:08
penguin42bcurtiswx: I don't know, my vague understanding was that Mir currently just used X drivers15:09
bcurtiswxwell, from what I read, it's a "success" test if you use NVIDIA and it pushes you back to X15:10
Daekdroombcurtiswx, closed-source NVIDIA and ATI drivers don't work with Mir yet. They lack EGL support.15:20
bcurtiswxDaekdroom, OK thanks.15:22
ikoniadoes the open ones work at all ?15:22
Daekdroomikonia, yeah. Apparently there are issues with Nvidia and Radeon, however.15:22
Daekdroom(or was it the other way around and Intel has bugs currently? :S)15:22
penguin42intel always has bugs; but there again things like Unity and Mir seem to be particularly good at finding them, which is good15:28
ikoniaI find the intel xorg components excellent, so I'm curious to how they stack up with the mir stack15:35
penguin42ikonia: Generally but I do have occasional crashes on them15:36
ikoniapenguin42: have you tried them with mir yet?15:37
Yu-YuFolks, will that Mir replace X or not?16:02
BluesKajYu-Yu, eventually , think the idea is to replace X by 14.0416:06
Yu-YuBluesKaj: It may be ok.16:08
BluesKajwell , I'm not too concerned since I'm on KDE :)16:11
Yu-YuBluesKaj: The idea may be to get rid of years of X legacy bugs and weirdness.16:13
Yu-YuBluesKaj: And your replica sounds like «— The ship is sinking! We all gonna die! — I don't care, I wear red hat.»… Don't you think so?16:15
BluesKajYu-Yu, canonical has chosen it's own path by going with mir , most other distos are going with wayland , including kubuntu.16:16
BluesKajkubuntu is no longer supported by canonical , it's under blue systems now.16:20
Yu-YuBluesKaj: I don't think they won't let us use Wayland and/or Mir at our will.16:26
=== penguin421 is now known as penguin42
geniiBluesKaj: Could you do me a favour and see if System Settings... Hardware... Input devices.... Touchpad      opens or crashes for you?18:36
Yu-Yugenii: In KDE?18:38
geniiYu-Yu: Yes, I know he uses it18:38
BluesKajgenii,yes , it segfaults , but I'm on a desktop18:38
* penguin42 doesn't have the touchpad entry18:39
penguin42and it works on my opensuse laptop18:40
Yu-Yugenii: Can I do a thing for you?18:41
ikoniagenii: someone else was reporting this last night, I had a look and there was a bug for it18:42
* Yu-Yu has just tested it with {mate|gnome}-control-center.18:44
geniiikonia: OK, cool.18:44
BluesKajdunno why it's even installed18:44
geniiikonia: Do you remember the bug number?18:44
ikoniagenii: not without looking but it was there18:44
geniiInstalling debug symbols now to get a better report for it but wanted to see if someone already did that in the current one first18:45
geniiMeh. Additional error installing symbols. /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs5-dbg_4%3a4.11.0-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libkdeui.so.5.11.0', which is also in package libkdeui5-dbgsym 4:4.11.0-0ubuntu118:53
Maple__Are torrents available for Saucy images?18:59
Maple__Seems like it's a no.19:00
IdleOnecdimages.ubuntu.com ?19:00
IdleOneoh no. seems there are no torrents19:01
Yu-YuMaple__: Should I make one?19:01
Maple__Nah, I'm satisfied with the download speed...for now.19:03
Yu-YuIt's only sources ISO files.19:03
GiGaHuRtZWell, kubuntu 13.10 definitely has some mission critical bugs regardless of what people told me here about being decently stable :(20:14
GiGaHuRtZTouchpad properties in input devices gives instant crash :(20:15
GiGaHuRtZBack to 13.04 with KDE ppa's enabled thankfully20:15
penguin42GiGaHuRtZ: Well no one said it hasn't got any bad bugs - but I haven't hit any!20:15
penguin42but I haven't got a touchpad on my kubuntu box20:15
GiGaHuRtZits alright20:16
GiGaHuRtZI dont mind bugs except when the totally get in my way20:16
GiGaHuRtZmy buildbox has a desktop, but I prefer to interface with it by using my thinkpad20:16
penguin42GiGaHuRtZ: You could try submitting a bug to kde.org20:17
GiGaHuRtZi reported to the ML  of kubuntu, via advice from kde devs20:17
GiGaHuRtZBecause it works fine in 4.11 on 13.0420:18
GiGaHuRtZAnd ive been running every KDE ppa for ubuntu besides the poackage staging (do not use) for months of 13.04 with no issues20:18
geniiGiGaHuRtZ: Yes, I found that someone already filed that bug at KDE now, I added to it. 32400220:19
geniiGiGaHuRtZ: ( the systemsettings touchpad crash )20:20
GiGaHuRtZGreat :)20:20
=== Fyodorovna is now known as wilee-nilee
=== wilee-nilee is now known as sporkeee
IdleOnetex_: what does that link have to do with Ubuntu?23:16
tex_it needs protection my friend ... the ubuntu project23:16
tex_or somebody anyway23:17
tex_no hard feelings23:17
IdleOneyeah well we try not to force our religious beliefs on anyone and would appreciate you giving us the same freedoms23:17
tex_excuse my provoacative behaviour23:18
penguin42IdleOne: He seems to be going around loads of channels23:19
IdleOnepenguin42: they always do :/23:19

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