[00:46] <cyphermox> robru: still around?
[00:57] <robru> cyphermox, sorry, thought I pasted it above
[00:57] <robru> cyphermox, here it is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6042047/
[01:01] <robru> cyphermox, I mentioned this to pete-woods and he mentioned something about c++filt, but i don't know much about this stuff.
[01:50] <cyphermox> robru: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/cupstream2distro-config/friends-plugin/+merge/183063
[01:50] <cyphermox> if you can quickly review I'll try to push this before the next run
[03:04] <robru> cyphermox, sorry, was eating dinner. approved
[03:50] <pitti> Good morning
[03:50] <pitti> robru: still here?
[03:50] <pitti> ah, /me reads mail
[03:50] <robru> pitti, hi, yes ;-)
[03:53] <pitti> desrt: ah, bug 1196752 got a patch which looks straightforward
[03:53] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1196752 in systemd-shim (Ubuntu) "Suspend only works once when using upower with logind -- s-shim needs to call /lib/systemd/system-sleep/*" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196752
[03:58] <pitti> robru: ah, so I'll re-review the branches again  for the issues, and when it's good I do that bzr pull? let's do that then
[03:58] <robru> pitti, I guess so? lol, i wish didrocks had explained this better before leaving
[03:59] <Mirv> hi robru :)
[03:59] <robru> pitti, i'm just gonna watch tv for an hour, but send me an email with any further review issues and i can take care of them tonight
[03:59] <robru> Mirv, hey
[03:59] <pitti> robru: ack
[04:01] <pitti> robru: ah, I see r236
[04:01] <pitti> robru: so, lp:cordoba-ubuntu LGTM
[04:04] <pitti> robru: ack, all good now
[04:05] <pitti> Mirv: hey
[04:05] <pitti> Mirv: so I do "bzr missing" on lillypilly on cupstream2distro
[04:06] <pitti> Mirv: and I see a commit 704 from robru for "Enable daily release of cordova."
[04:06] <pitti> and "Disable cordova* projects from daily releasing, those were not preNEWed yet, they're blocking the webapps stack." (r712) from you
[04:07] <pitti> so if I do that pull, it won't actually be sufficient for cordova I guess, and your disabling needs to be reverted?
[04:08] <pitti> so someone needs to push that into cu2d
[04:09] <Mirv> pitti: yes, I can revert that
[04:12] <Mirv> pitti: so if it was preNEWed now, you can approve https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/webapp_reenable_cordova/+merge/183071
[04:12] <pitti> Mirv: done
[04:13] <pitti> Mirv: it'll automerge, or do you merge manually?
[04:13] <Mirv> pitti: it'll automerge, but I'll deploy the configuration manually
[04:14] <Mirv> pitti: hmm, what about FF?
[04:14] <pitti> I don't know, did that get a FFE?
[04:15] <Mirv> pitti: it's not in the general one https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1208989
[04:15] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1208989 in Ubuntu "[FFe] standing freeze exception for Ubuntu Touch-specific packages" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[04:15] <Mirv> I remember seeing yesterday dbarth or someone filing FFe, but I don't find one now
[04:16] <Mirv> talking about filing, that is
[04:17] <Mirv> so maybe halting until that
[04:17] <pitti> Mirv: is that a touch-only package?
[04:17] <pitti> (it certainly sounds like it)
[04:17] <Mirv> pitti: no, it's desktop side extension to Qt Creator
[04:17] <Mirv> but for touch applications, sure
[04:18] <Mirv> well actually it's standalone HTML5 app maker but QtC also has (already) a plugin bundled that can make use of it
[04:37] <Mirv> pitti: there's another preNEW as e-mailed by cyphermox, and from looking at another thing lacking FFe https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/unity-greeter-session-broadcast/trunk.13.10
[04:38] <Mirv> but that can be probably safely said to be touch specific
[04:38] <Mirv> it's already in mir stack and blocking its publishing (it should have been added only after preNEW)
[04:48] <robru> Mirv, this one's not my fault!
[04:49] <robru> Mirv, bah, did we seriously miss the feature freeze for cordova by a day? if didrocks had been around to preNEW this last week this would be no problem
[04:54] <pitti> well, FFEs one day after FF should be cheap to get
[05:05] <robru> pitti, Mirv: we have a MIR for cordova already: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cordova-ubuntu/+bug/1217001
[05:05] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1217001 in cordova-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ubuntu-cordova" [Undecided,New]
[05:07] <robru> dur, no wait, MIR != FFe
[05:07] <Mirv> robru: yeah, it was again a terrible rush towards the FF, as usual. I'm writing my Qt FFe at the moment as well, there was no chance for it even, our wanted upstream release got released on Wednesday..
[05:08] <robru> Mirv, I am starting to think that FF is a broken concept. everybody rushes to cram their crap into distro last second, and then the rest of the cycle is spent cleaning the bugs that we slapped together in the rush for FF.
[05:09] <robru> maybe without a FF, stuff could land more naturally, "when it's ready"
[05:09] <Mirv> robru: well, it makes it possible to have the release on time, if there wouldn't be FF then they would be rushed later
[05:09] <Mirv> robru: yeah, right. the problem is that we've too many requirements that are wanted to be implemented, so it wouldn't be the natural "when it's ready", it's "what we agreed on getting to 13.10"
[05:10] <robru> Mirv, well, maybe if FF was closer to the real release, there'd be less of a big panic about it. like "oh well, it'll get in next cycle". or maybe if we had rolling releases...
[05:10] <Mirv> so FF is the deadline everyone knows is not (totally) flexible
[05:10] <Mirv> robru: it was already moved later to the actual release. it's only 1.5 months now until millions of people start using it.
[05:11] <robru> Mirv, FF should be the day before release! ;-)
[05:11] <Mirv> robru: another thing is that Cordova is not Touch app/thing but it's only used by those targetting Touch, so it should have been included in the generic FFe I think
[05:11] <robru> Mirv, which ffe? is it too late? do i have to file a new one?
[05:12] <Mirv> robru: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1208989 - yeah there needs to be new one, that was already handled and it involves packages installed to touch images
[05:12] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1208989 in Ubuntu "[FFe] standing freeze exception for Ubuntu Touch-specific packages" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[05:14] <robru> Mirv, shit, yes, it totally should have been included in that.
[05:14] <robru> Mirv, just found an email from dbarth saying he would file the FFE
[05:15] <Mirv> robru: good, that's what I remember reading on IRC as well, dbarth writing something like that
[05:15] <robru> Mirv, just emailed him back about it.
[05:17] <Mirv> robru: cu2d is again totally halted
[05:17] <Mirv> for the last 3-4 hours or so
[05:17] <robru> Mirv, oh? i wasn't looking closely but all i saw was some blinking and some not
[05:17] <Mirv> robru: it's the same thing I explained before - everything waiting for a stalled job
[05:18] <robru> Mirv, can you show me what is stalled?
[05:18] <Mirv> robru: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-2.1build/443/console
[05:18] <robru> Mirv, it is incredibly difficult for me to detect this situation because everything is done in UTC, so when I look at my clock I have no real concept of if the current run just started or has been stalled for 3.5 hrs
[05:19] <Mirv> robru: you need to check what happens during the 4 hour cycle - at this point of the tick, there is no possibility that there are so many jobs "ongoing" (not), so something's wrong
[05:19] <Mirv> robru: and all of them are "waitonstacks" except one
[05:20] <Mirv> but I now used cu2d-skip again.
[05:20] <robru> Mirv, that's what I mean. I have to consciously think to refer to a UTC clock before I have any concept of "at this point in the tick". The only time I remember is that my tick starts at 3PM local.
[05:21] <robru> if I just check jenkins, I see some jobs running and think "oh, a tick must have recently started". it's not until I refer to a UTC clock and then refer back that I'm able to determine that a tick has been running too long
[05:21] <Mirv> robru: well the same here, I need to think in my local time but if your tick started at 3PM you should have some good progress on multiple stacks by 4:30PM
[05:21] <robru> Mirv, yeah, but the current tick isn't my tick, it's the orphan tick that comes after mine ;_)
[05:21] <Mirv> and since it's every four hours it's easy to keep on mind which times the tick starts. for you eg 3PM 7PM 11PM, for me eg. 5am 9am 1pm 5pm
[05:23] <robru> Mirv, why do we even build for powerpc? didn't we vote to turn that off recently?
[05:23] <Mirv> robru: sure, this time it wasn't the 10+ hours of stall, just 3, ie. the orphan tick.
[05:23] <Mirv> robru: again it took time for me too to notice something's wrong. 1.5h ago I just looked that "oh, maybe slightly slow again but I guess it's working"
[07:12] <sil2100> Morning!
[07:35] <sil2100> Mirv: phone, unity and media were aborted?
[07:37] <Mirv> sil2100: yep, in order for this latest tick to be able to start
[07:37] <Mirv> sil2100: again unskipped powerpc hangs
[07:37] <sil2100> Eh, ok, makes sense
[07:38] <sil2100> Mirv: is indicator-network the main culprit?
[07:41] <Laney> hey
[07:42] <sil2100> Laney: morning!
[07:45] <sil2100> Mirv: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/phone_change_friends_pkg/+merge/183086
[07:45] <sil2100> Mirv: guess we'll need this
[07:56] <Mirv> yep
[08:01] <sil2100> Mirv: I'll redeploy it now that phone finished
[08:01] <sil2100> Thanks!
[08:16] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:19] <seb128> sil2100, Mirv, Laney: good morning
[08:19] <seb128> sil2100, Mirv: you guys around?
[08:19] <Laney> ahoy
[08:19] <seb128> Laney, hey, happy friday! how are things post vUDS/FF?
[08:20] <Laney> well, straight into FFes and beta 1 which I am doing release engineering for ...
[08:20] <Sweetshark> Moin all!
[08:20] <Mirv> seb128: hello
[08:21] <seb128> Laney, I hope you don't have to spend too much work on it
[08:21] <Laney> me too
[08:21] <seb128> Laney, shouldn't the release team handle release? (e.g infinity and co)?
[08:21] <seb128> hey Sweetshark
[08:22] <seb128> Mirv, sil2100: indicators are not landing because indicator-location brings new packages on the builder and that makes the checker not happy, is any of you looking at fixing that?
[08:22] <Sweetshark> seb128: cjwatson was warned about the libreoffice updates issue in the wrapup session and is hoping we are not doing it in the next five weeks (after which he leaves the TB, I assume)
[08:22] <seb128> Sweetshark, lol, I see
[08:22] <Laney> various people step in to help from time to time
[08:23] <seb128> Laney, I guess nice from you to step up
[08:23] <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseTaskSignup
[08:23] <seb128> but between Ken being relocated on the content-hub, vUDS, etc
[08:23] <seb128> we are just falling way behind on settings :/
[08:23] <seb128> need to talk to jasoncwarner about that
[08:23] <seb128> we can't keep helping others and not move our stuff...
[08:29] <Mirv> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/indicators_extra_packages/+merge/183091
[08:29] <Mirv> seb128: if ok, deploying and rerunning
[08:31]  * Mirv has now reread the commit enough times itself to deploy and rerun while waiting for the merge to be approved
[08:32] <sil2100> Mirv: that's a LOT of extra packages
[08:32] <sil2100> seb128: yes, been qt'ing - hello!
[08:33] <Mirv> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/unity-greeter-session-broadcast/trunk.13.10 would need preNEWing, I pinged pitti earlier but didn't get a response (so this ping to let him know I've asked you as well)
[08:33] <sil2100> Mirv: approved
[08:34] <Mirv> seb128: it was added apparently to mir stack already so it also blocks mir now (it should be added only after preNEW done)
[08:34] <Mirv> seb128: then there's the question if it's included in Touch FFe or not
[08:34] <Mirv> (ah, I did get response but not to whether to preNEW review it or not)
[08:35] <seb128> Mirv, sorry, somebody at the door, I had to go away from the computer for a few minutes
[08:35] <seb128> Mirv, I preNEWed the greeter package yesterday evening
[08:35] <Mirv> seb128: oh, oh, oh..
[08:35] <Mirv> seb128: what about FFe?
[08:36] <seb128> cyphermox pinged me about it
[08:36] <seb128> should be easy to add to the touch FFe list
[08:36] <seb128> Laney might be able to help there
[08:36] <seb128> sil2100, happy qting! do you work on the menus stuff?
[08:38] <Laney> post it to the bug
[08:38] <Mirv> Laney: posted bug #1208989 comment #5
[08:38] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1208989 in Ubuntu "[FFe] standing freeze exception for Ubuntu Touch-specific packages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208989
[08:39] <sil2100> seb128: trying to at least, bit by bit! But context switching between a few things
[08:40] <Laney> Mirv: OK
[08:40] <seb128> sil2100, yeah, hard to focus on something in this madhouse ;-)
[08:40] <Laney> I hope we won't constantly be getting new components
[08:40] <Mirv> I'm totally fuzzy today
[08:40] <seb128> Laney,  think we should be mostly good at this point
[08:40] <Mirv> the FF+UDS were truly hard days
[08:40] <seb128> yeah
[08:41] <Mirv> Laney: thanks.
[08:41] <Mirv> publishing mir stack
[08:41] <seb128> sil2100, Mirv: great work this week, both of you! thanks for handling sessions in one of the tracks and getting work done at the same time
[08:41] <seb128> sil2100, and thanks for stepping up for doing the summary at the wrapping!
[08:41] <Mirv> thanks seb128 :)
[08:42] <Laney> hmm
[08:42] <sil2100> seb128: thanks and you're welcome - hope I didn't screw up, since I only had a limited time to familiarize with the summaries ;p
[08:42] <Laney> seb128: can you remember the way to force a TextEntry to be focussed?
[08:42] <seb128> sil2100, I looked a bit at the video, looked good to me ;-)
[08:42] <sil2100> seb128: so sadly your track was a bit 'left over', as I probably couldn't extend about it too much :(
[08:43] <seb128> sil2100, there was not much to say, we hosted some sessions for non desktop topics there and not all session had an useful outcome
[08:43] <seb128> sil2100, no worry, summary was good ;-)
[08:43] <seb128> Laney, Component.onCompleted: id.forceActiveFocus()
[08:44] <Laney> aha
[08:44] <Laney> thanks
[08:45] <Laney> doing the UI for passphrase/passcode right now
[08:45] <Laney> got any other priorities?
[08:47] <seb128> Laney, no, that seems fine
[08:47] <Laney> hrm
[08:47] <Laney> doesn't work
[08:47] <Laney> Object passphrase has no method 'forceActiveFocus'
[08:47] <seb128> Laney, you have email btw
[08:47] <Laney> k
[08:47] <Mirv> sil2100: I think you did really great in the sessions I participated, seemed like experienced track leader ;)
[08:49] <sil2100> ;p
[08:49] <seb128> Laney, the main info is that automatic timezone/NITZ is not scoped for v1, I fwded the emails because they still give some context/useful infos on priorities
[08:50] <sil2100> Thanks, will make sure not to damage my facial looks before next-time ;)
[08:50] <Mirv> seb128: sil2100: there's some non-existing lp:indicator-secret-agent in indicators stack config that prevented deploying
[08:50] <seb128> :-(
[08:50] <seb128> TED
[08:51] <seb128> Mirv, can you fix it/redeploy?
[08:52] <Mirv> seb128: yes, redeploying already without it
[08:52] <seb128> thanks
[08:52] <seb128> Laney, not sure if you saw, but: https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/unity8/greeter-wallpaper/+merge/183018
[08:52] <Mirv> https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/indicators_disable_indicator-secret-agent/+merge/183095
[08:52] <seb128> Mirv, approved
[08:54] <Laney> seb128: yes that's good information
[08:54] <Laney> seb128: so ... will NTP work? i.e. can we make that control set the timedated property for ntp?
[08:54] <Laney> also is there a bug for the pickers?
[08:55] <seb128> Laney, ntp is a good question, I don't see why it wouldn't work
[08:55] <seb128> Laney, though it might be worth emailing the phone list to ask/make sure
[08:55] <Laney> ok
[08:56] <seb128> Laney, I don't see bugs about the picker, let me check
[08:56] <seb128> they keep their list on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/SdkFeatureStatus I think
[08:57] <Laney> hrm
[08:57] <Laney> don't see an entry for that there
[08:57] <seb128> me neither, but I was told it's being worked, let me check
[08:57] <Laney> ok
[08:59] <desrt> pitti: interesting.  my understanding of this situation continues to develop
[08:59] <desrt> so we must EITHER:
[08:59] <desrt>  - report version
[08:59] <desrt> OR
[08:59] <desrt>  - run hooks
[08:59] <Laney> oh, wait
[08:59] <Laney> hmm
[09:00] <Laney> timedated's NTP stuff relies on using systemd-init
[09:00] <Laney> what does gnome do?
[09:01] <Laney> erm, that uses timedated too
[09:01] <Laney> does that mean this setting is broken?
[09:02] <seb128> Laney, no, that's why we have systemd-shim for
[09:02] <Laney> it uses the unit file AFAICS
[09:02] <seb128> unit files?
[09:02] <seb128> I'm not familiar with systemd
[09:02] <seb128> what are those?
[09:02] <Laney> like job files
[09:03] <Laney> maybe shim does handle it
[09:03] <Laney> let me chec
[09:03] <seb128> but I'm pretty sure desrt did what was needed/tested it
[09:03] <Laney> aha, yes
[09:03] <Laney> he intercepts calls to start that unit
[09:04] <Laney> should work then ;-)
[09:05] <Laney> mailed
[09:07] <desrt> timedated is working, unless something broke
[09:07] <desrt> getting a working timedated, localed, etc. was the reason that we made systemd-shim
[09:08] <Laney> r0x0r
[09:08] <Laney> it was just the ntp part, I knew timedated was working
[09:09] <Mirv> seb128: indicators http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_indicator-location_13.10.0+13.10.20130830.1-0ubuntu1.diff + http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_indicator-power_12.10.6+13.10.20130830.1-0ubuntu1.diff
[09:09] <Sweetshark> jibel: http://people.canonical.com/~j-lallement/libreoffice/binrepo/ seems to be stuck again. If you have some time (haha, I know), could you have a look?
[09:11] <seb128> Mirv, -1 for indicator-power, we need to revert ted's commit :/
[09:11] <jibel> Sweetshark, ah, again. Thanks for the heads up, I'll have a look. And I'll refresh sysadmin's memory that I need notifications from this machine
[09:11] <seb128> Laney, you got email ;-)
[09:12] <seb128> Mirv, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart-app-launch is in universe
[09:12] <Laney> should I be scared? :P
[09:12] <seb128> Mirv, liburl-dispatcher1-dev depends on it
[09:13] <seb128> Laney, well, annoyed rather, sdk is not going to land those date/time picker any time soon, we might need a planB
[09:13] <Laney> argh
[09:13] <Mirv> seb128: so it seems, the binaries are
[09:13] <Laney> let's get voice input working so you can just say the time and date you want
[09:13] <Laney> that should be trivial right
[09:14] <Sweetshark> jibel: awesome, thanks. I would help out watching for it, but am scared of the additional set of accounts, keys and logins I would need for that. I have more than enough already...
[09:19] <seb128> Mirv, the source as well
[09:19] <seb128> Mirv, do you want me to propose the revert?
[09:20] <Mirv> seb128: please do
[09:20] <seb128> Mirv, ok
[09:20] <Mirv> ah component main, but release (universe)
[09:21] <Mirv> read wrong
[09:22] <seb128> Mirv, yeah, the component stuff is confusing
[09:22] <happyaron> yesterday's g-s-d update makes ibus runs whenever a user login to the system, no matter whether there is another input method already running... I think this is something wrong.
[09:23] <happyaron> seb128 Laney what do you think about this problem? it's caused by the fix for LP #1194138
[09:23] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1194138 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "ibus-daemon doesn't autostart" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194138
[09:24] <Laney> I think GNOME would tell you this is how it's supposed to work ...
[09:25] <seb128> happyaron, that's the issue when GNOME/the rest of the world consisder ibus as a standard component and some tries to not use it :/
[09:25] <seb128> happyaron, though that's not very useful for the specific issue I guess
[09:26] <seb128> happyaron, we might want to make that conditional on XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP, or use an upstart job...
[09:26] <happyaron> Laney seb128 in such a case it does nothing and waste memory, I think ~12MB?
[09:26] <Laney> does it run all the time?
[09:26] <happyaron> yes
[09:26] <Laney> hmm, that seems like a problem regardless
[09:26] <seb128> happyaron, why is it running if it's not used?
[09:26] <happyaron> not start and quit, but start and keep running.
[09:26]  * seb128 hates ibus
[09:27] <Laney> I guess that the fix is to make it exit when not needed then
[09:27] <seb128> that stack is so annoying
[09:27] <happyaron> seb128: I'm not sure, non of the IM related variable is changed, but ibus-daemon and related stuff is running.
[09:27] <Laney> that's standard for dbus activated services
[09:27] <seb128> what is activating it?
[09:27] <seb128> that shouldn't happen in the first place I guess
[09:27] <happyaron>   * Install the ibus dbus service (LP: #1194138)
[09:27] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1194138 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "ibus-daemon doesn't autostart" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194138
[09:27] <seb128> well, having dbus activiation is good
[09:27] <seb128> but that should be only activating if something calls to it
[09:27] <happyaron> I think it's g-s-d?
[09:28] <happyaron> even it's not used, ibus does not quit...
[09:28] <Laney> right
[09:28] <seb128> would it be easy to teach it to do so?
[09:29] <happyaron> I'm not sure, but I know there is such logic in fcitx already and we may port it to ibus.
[09:30] <seb128> what do you suggest to do meanwhile?
[09:30] <Laney> Maybe it's easier (as a first step; IBus should be fixed too) to get gsd to not call this interface if it's not needed
[09:30] <seb128> it seems that if we revert that change we have the opposite issue
[09:30] <seb128> ibus not starting even when you need it
[09:30] <seb128> or if you have input methods configured
[09:31] <happyaron> seb128: ibus should be started by im-config, but ubuntu's change makes it only starts ibus under CJKV locales.
[09:31] <seb128> Mirv, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/indicator-power/revert-universe-depends/+merge/183106 (approved by larsu, once merged we can retry ... or when is the next tick?)
[09:32] <Mirv> seb128: next tick in 30mins, so let's have it at that
[09:32] <happyaron> this is the supposed old way (no dbus activation).
[09:32] <seb128> happyaron, do you know why we made those changes?
[09:32] <seb128> happyaron, well, it seems jbicha had issues with ibus/chines, reading bug #1194138
[09:32] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1194138 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "ibus-daemon doesn't autostart" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194138
[09:32] <happyaron> seb128: at that time we don't have ibus integration, and we don't want ibus to bother users who does not use it.
[09:33] <seb128> is there an easy way to determine "users who use it"?
[09:33] <seb128> e.g make it exit for those who don't use it
[09:34] <happyaron> seb128: it's easier to determine if there is another input method already running.
[09:35] <seb128> happyaron, well, the most common case, out of Asia, is to not use IMs, so not needing ibus or any im to run at all
[09:36] <happyaron> seb128: but I guess it will make g-s-d not happy now? I'm not faimiliar how people use xkb (fr, es, etc..)
[09:37] <seb128> attente, hey, are you around?
[09:37] <happyaron> seb128: jbicha says ibus-daemon does not run, because he adds Chinese input engines under a non-CJKV locale, so that im-config does not start ibus-daemon for him.
[09:37] <seb128> attente, does indicator-keyboard needs ibus for keyboard layout stuff, or only ims?
[09:38] <seb128> happyaron, so im-config's logic is: if you use a cjkv locale, run ibus, if not, don't run it?
[09:38] <happyaron> yes
[09:40] <seb128> that seems buggy
[09:40] <seb128> it means it would start for Kylin when it shouldn't (because fcitx is used)
[09:40] <seb128> it also means it doesn't start for US users than want to input chinese (jbicha's test case)
[09:41] <happyaron> seb128: nope, im-config can change to start fcitx (this is what kylin does), ibus is just its default.
[09:42] <seb128> happyaron, what about the US people wanting to input chinese case?
[09:43] <happyaron> seb128: user can run im-config and choose to start ibus/others, just the default setting is to not start anything.
[09:43] <seb128> that seems buggy
[09:44] <seb128> users shouldn't need to know about that extra config tools/dialog
[09:44] <seb128> going to keyboard and adding a chinese input method should just work
[09:44] <seb128> to me it seems we need to teach ibus to exit when the current config doesn't require it to run
[09:45] <happyaron> that was what language-selector intended, though it has it's age...
[09:45] <happyaron> seb128: agree
[09:47] <happyaron> seb128: but I think the result is no difference since indicator-keyboard will trigger g-s-d to try to launch ibus?
[09:48] <happyaron> so if user does not run another IM, ibus is always running?
[09:49] <Laney> It should decide it's not needed and exit
[09:49] <pitti> Mirv: sorry, long meeting; so sil2100 already ack'ed it?
[09:49] <happyaron> Laney: that would be difficult, I think
[09:50] <Mirv> pitti: all that was needed was ack'ed
[09:50] <seb128> happyaron, why?
[09:50] <pitti> Mirv: good
[09:51] <happyaron> seb128: how will it know it's not needed?
[09:51] <seb128> happyaron, if there is no input method in the user config?
[09:51] <seb128> happyaron, should be a gsettings key to read/parse
[09:51] <seb128> or an ibus config
[09:51] <seb128> like if my layout are [us]
[09:51] <seb128> there is no need for ibus
[09:52] <seb128> no?
[09:52] <happyaron> if so, what's the difference from using im-config to start only on cjkv?
[09:53] <seb128> 1- im-config is a distro specific hack and another config UI users need to know about (and don't know about/shouldn't have to know about)
[09:53] <seb128> 2- what about US users with a chinese input method configured (jbicha's case)
[10:00] <happyaron> if you really hate im-config and language-selector, then the best thing is to teach ibus to do that.
[10:05] <seb128> happyaron, I don't hate them, it just hurts my head to try to understand why we need the im-config layer
[10:05] <seb128> rather than just teaching the service to be smart enough to run when it needs or exit when it doesn't
[10:06] <seb128> to we it seems we try to wrap the logic in weird shell at the wrong place
[10:08] <happyaron> it was something to deal with DEs that does not handle input methods, and at the time no on demand activation for desktop exists.
[10:08] <happyaron> GNOME is the first and only DE that handles the initialization of input method
[10:09] <happyaron> so im-config sets the IM related variables and starts the IM daemon at right time during Xsession script is being run.
[10:11] <seb128> happyaron, you know about the topic better than me
[10:11] <seb128> happyaron, basically you are saying that jbicha's buggy situation was already there before saucy?
[10:11] <seb128> happyaron, if so I'm happy to just revert the dbus activation stuff until we sort that properly
[10:11] <attente> seb128, sorry i missed your ping
[10:12] <seb128> happyaron, over time I would like us to drop the im-config wrapper though and do something integrated as GNOME is doing
[10:12] <seb128> attente, hey, no worry
[10:12] <seb128> attente, we are still discussing ibus activation, read the backlog if you feel like doing so and if you have an opinion on the topic ;-)
[10:13] <attente> seb128, you want something else to be responsible for starting ibus?
[10:13] <seb128> happyaron suggests we keep using imconfig
[10:13] <sil2100> Mirv: arrgh!
[10:14] <sil2100> Sorry for the phone tests!
[10:14] <Laney> I think it'd be polite to at least wait for jbicha and come to some kind of violent agreement before reverting his stuff
[10:14] <sil2100> Mirv: fixing that, we had a talk about that yesterday and I asssumed it's fixed, fixing fixing
[10:16] <attente> seb128, is im-config the problem? or is it what should be invoking im-config?
[10:17] <seb128> Laney, right
[10:17] <seb128> attente, the issue is that since https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/3.6.4-0ubuntu19 ibus is running all the time for all users
[10:17] <Laney> :-)
[10:18] <seb128> attente, which 1- waste resources for those who don't need it 2- create issue for UbuntuKylin which is using fcitx and not ibus
[10:22] <attente> seb128, can we can try to make g-c-c responsible for calling im-config, and warn the user if they need to restart the session to take effect?
[10:22] <seb128> attente, btw are you still in China?
[10:22] <seb128> attente, I guess we can
[10:23] <attente> seb128, yes, i have next week off, then back to canada :(
[10:23] <seb128> attente, Billf set up a small meeting to discuss osk setting (it's in 3 hours), not sure if you saw ... if you can't make it that's fine
[10:26] <sil2100> Mirv: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/dialer-app/fix_ap_deps/+merge/183119
[10:26] <sil2100> Mirv: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/messaging-app/fix_ap_deps/+merge/183120
[10:30] <attente> seb128, i can make it, just that i don't have a webcam, and i'm not sure if google hangouts will work here
[10:30] <happyaron> seb128 Laney I suggest to revert that change, but it would be polite to ask jbicha before we actually do that.
[10:31] <seb128> attente, ok, it's only 4 people, we can fallback to IRC meeting if needed, thanks
[10:32] <seb128> happyaron, right, let's do that
[10:32] <seb128> happyaron, to be clear, the issue he described in the bug was already there in previous releases, right?
[10:32] <happyaron> yes
[10:33] <seb128> good
[10:34] <happyaron> ok, then I'm going for dinner.
[10:34] <seb128> happyaron, enjoy!
[10:34] <seb128> happyaron, btw did you see my email about Kylin updates sent yesterday?
[10:43] <seb128> happyaron, youker-assistant accepted to saucy fyi
[11:00] <sil2100> seb128: can you do a quick approve of 2 merges? I guess this will be just few seconds
[11:00] <sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/messaging-app/fix_ap_deps/+merge/183120
[11:01] <sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/dialer-app/fix_ap_deps/+merge/183119
[11:01] <seb128> sil2100, ok, comment approved, I'm not in the right team to change the status though
[11:02] <seb128> lunch, bbiab
[11:04] <sil2100> seb128: thanks!
[11:16] <Mirv> sil2100: hmm, have you poked anyone about that amd64 builds are pretty stalled? indicator not compiled after 1h
[11:16] <Mirv> even tests have passed since they are run on i386, but everything is once again halted in the system because of pending builds. just this time not powerpc, but amd64.
[11:21] <sil2100> Mirv: picking that up then!
[11:31] <sil2100> Mirv: I just got a launchpad internal error on my e-mail
[11:33] <sil2100> I might drop off from internet in a moment, since they'll be switching modems for me soon
[11:38] <slomo_> Laney: 1.1.4 is in experimental now
[11:38] <Laney> slomo_: cool, cheers
[11:39] <Laney> might not get to it until monday now though
[11:39] <slomo_> Laney: did you try if gst-libav builds with old libav btw? it might
[11:39] <slomo_> Laney: after adjusting debian/control of course
[11:39] <Laney> slomo_: hmm, can't remember, let me check build logs
[11:40] <Laney> ah yes
[11:40] <Laney> gstavcodecmap.c:30:38: fatal error: libavutil/channel_layout.h: No such file or directory
[11:42] <slomo_> ok :)
[11:54] <Laney> how do I set an enum with gsettings-qt?
[11:54] <Laney> I keep getting "outside of valid range"
[11:58] <seb128> larsu, ^
[12:12] <larsu> Laney: is the thing you're tring to set one of the values returned by settings.schema.choices('keyname')?
[12:36] <Sweetshark> oh, great. Did a non-package build of libreoffice to patch on the unity integration, I get almost an heart attack, because its totally broken. Retesting the packaged build it works ... but I dont know _why_.
[12:37] <Sweetshark> scary.
[12:38] <ogra_> the magic of unity :)
[12:39] <Sweetshark> ogra_: hmm, maybe indeed: of course my nonpackaged binary is not where unity expects it, so it doesnt get any voodoo there ...
[12:40] <Mirv> seb128: sil2100 apparently lost his network connection, indicators again http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_indicator-location_13.10.0+13.10.20130830.2-0ubuntu1.diff + http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_indicator-power_12.10.6+13.10.20130
[12:41] <seb128> Mirv, the second url is a 404.
[12:41] <seb128> ?
[12:41] <Mirv> mm
[12:41] <seb128> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_indicator-power_12.10.6+13.10.20130830.2-0ubuntu1.diff
[12:41] <seb128> you dropped the .diff
[12:41] <seb128> Mirv, +1
[12:41] <Mirv> aha, sorry, in a telco just wanting to have indicators out
[12:42] <Mirv> published
[12:42] <seb128> Mirv, thanks ;-)
[12:42] <seb128> Mirv, do you want me to do the publishing?
[12:47] <Mirv> seb128: published. but additionally, unity-greeter-session-broadcast in NEW queue
[12:48] <seb128> Mirv, ok, I'm going to let that one it
[12:48] <seb128> Laney, ^ I guess we can still NEW stuff during beta freeze?
[12:53] <mpt> Is there any way to add a Nautilus bookmark these days? Drag-and-drop doesn't work, there's no "Add Bookmark" menu item any more, and the "Bookmarks" window has a remove button but no add button
[12:54]  * mpt crashes Nautilus trying to drag into the Bookmarks window
[12:56] <xnox> Is there someone who maintains maliit ? bug 1218893
[12:56] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1218893 in maliit-framework (Ubuntu) "on amd64 maliit-server constantly segfaults" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218893
[12:56] <xnox> it's on desktop though, not touch.
[12:56] <tvoss_> xnox, tmoenicke might be able to help you
[12:56] <sil2100> Now this pissed me off
[12:57] <larsu> mpt: gear menu -> bookmark this location
[12:58] <sil2100> Mirv: did the amd64 builders get resolved?
[12:58] <larsu> mpt: but I did have to go look for it for a while (I always use Ctrl+D)
[12:58] <mpt> ...That's a menu? Fnord.
[12:59] <mpt> Thanks larsu
[12:59] <sil2100> Mirv: oh, I see it moved
[13:00] <larsu> mpt: yes, it is :/ Putting a little downward-pointing arrow on there would help I guess…
[13:00] <sil2100> Mirv: you re-ran SDK?
[13:01] <larsu> but then it wouldn't look as "clean" anymore :D
[13:01] <sil2100> Mirv: or it just started recently
[13:01] <Mirv> sil2100: hi
[13:01] <sil2100> Mirv: if it started recently because of the amd64 blockage, I guess let's ignore the next tick and just get things released right now
[13:01] <Mirv> sil2100: amd64 slowly but yes. no rerun, there were blockers that I've been solving a bit.
[13:02] <tedg> seb128, So, I saw your comment... I guess we need to do an MIR for upstart-app-launch then?
[13:02] <seb128> tedg, hey, yes, if you want to use it for components in main you need to...
[13:02] <seb128> tedg, but I didn't want to block all indicators until the MIR is done, reviewed and accepted
[13:02] <seb128> tedg, that's why I went for the revert
[13:02] <sil2100> Mirv: was there any answer from webops about why it was so slow?
[13:02] <tedg> seb128, Yeah, I understand.  I guess indicator-network's used it -- but that was universe.
[13:02] <seb128> tedg, right
[13:03] <Mirv> sil2100: no
[13:03] <seb128> tedg, power is on the desktop install though
[13:03] <Mirv> sil2100: webapps would need manual changelog syncing, marked in the status page. unity has something also I haven't had time to look at.
[13:03] <tedg> seb128, Yeah.  We'll need it for datetime as well, etc.
[13:03] <sil2100> Mirv: a version got pushed to distro directly?
[13:04] <Mirv> sil2100: yes
[13:04] <seb128> tedg, right, just need some paperwork then we can use it...
[13:04] <sil2100> Mirv: will look now, no internet problems planned - the cisco modem they gave me had an invalid config and I could only connect 1 wifi device at once, while they don't make those configurable
[13:05] <sil2100> Mirv: so please get back to normal work-mode now ;)
[13:05] <Mirv> sil2100: the normal mode would mean EOD now :)
[13:05] <sil2100> Mirv: then have a nice weekend! It's been busy enough, so EOD for now ;)
[13:05] <Mirv> sil2100: as soon as we've the sdk hangout finished
[13:06] <Mirv> and I don't know what I've lurking still in my browser and terminal tabs
[13:06] <sil2100> Mirv: btw. did you redeploy this? https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/unity_add_libupstart1/+merge/183108 ?
[13:06] <Mirv> sil2100: did you read it?-)
[13:06] <sil2100> Mirv: ahaha, description, ok ;)
[13:11] <Laney> seb128: yeah
[13:11] <tedg> seb128, Reverts create odd changelogs :-)  https://code.launchpad.net/~ps-jenkins/indicator-power/latestsnapshot-12.10.6+13.10.20130830.2-0ubuntu1/+merge/183146
[13:11] <Laney> it's only for participating flavours
[13:11] <Laney> larsu: let me check
[13:11] <seb128> tedg, yeah :/
[13:11] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[13:16] <sil2100> eh, again prepare job failures
[13:22] <Laney> larsu: yes, it's in that list
[13:22] <larsu> Laney: sounds like a bug then. I'll try to reproduce it in a bit.
[13:23] <happyaron> seb128: yes, thanks!
[13:36] <sil2100> kenvandine: hi!
[13:36] <kenvandine> hey sil2100
[13:36] <sil2100> kenvandine: could you review/approve https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/webapps-applications/manual_version/+merge/183171 ? Just a merge in of a version that got manually pushed
[13:37] <sil2100> kenvandine: maybe don't top-approve yet ;p
[13:37] <kenvandine> sure
[13:38] <sil2100> kenvandine: ok, fixed a typo
[13:38] <sil2100> Now it's cool
[13:38] <sil2100> Thanks!
[13:39] <kenvandine> sil2100, i noticed that platform-api has been merging latestsnapshot branches everyday
[13:39] <kenvandine> changelog only entries
[13:39] <kenvandine> i guess it needs a bootstrap commit
[13:40] <kenvandine> oh, i guess not
[13:40] <kenvandine> all the changelog entries say new rebuild forced
[13:41] <Laney> erm
[13:41] <Laney> larsu: I may be an idiot
[13:42] <sil2100> kenvandine: I think it's because it might have force rebuild on mir changes...
[13:42] <sil2100> kenvandine: yes, it is:
[13:42] <kenvandine> sil2100, yeah, it looks intentional
[13:42] <sil2100> condition-force-rebuild: ../mir/mir.project*
[13:43] <sil2100> So sadly...
[13:43] <kenvandine> yup
[13:43] <larsu> Laney: hehe, wh?
[13:43] <larsu> *why
[13:43] <kenvandine> i just noticed all the commits and it made me want to go check :)
[13:43] <Laney> larsu: A hard to spot typo
[13:43] <Laney> all is well :P
[13:45] <larsu> Laney: nice!
[13:46] <Laney> I added debugging to gsettings-qt and everything
[13:46] <larsu> Laney: hm, I'm adding a test to check that right now, but aparently you can set whatever value you want?!
[13:46]  * Laney weeps
[13:46] <larsu> I know the feeling :)
[13:46]  * larsu had something similar yesterday
[13:46] <Laney> well, you get a gsettings error telling you it's wrong
[13:46] <Laney> you could use check_range or whatever it is to validate before trying to insert I guess
[13:47] <sil2100> kenvandine: we'll miss this next tick, but I prefer to have something released at least - amd64 builds are taking ages today
[13:47] <larsu> Laney: hm. Do you think that's worth it?
[13:47] <larsu> it might help debug such issues faster
[13:48] <Laney> Dunno
[13:48] <Laney> You could then at least print what you tried to insert into where
[13:49] <Laney> well, set_value returns a boolean anyway so you don't need to do this extra call
[13:58] <seb128> attente, thanks for joining the missing
[13:58] <seb128> attente, you said you are off next week?
[13:59] <larsu> Laney: this is really a bug. The QQmlPropertyMap gets updated even though the key doesn't.
[13:59] <larsu> Laney: you're right thouhg, a warning should be enough
[13:59] <seb128> mterry, hey, new day, new questions for you ;-)
[14:00] <mterry> seb128, hello  :)
[14:00]  * mterry remembers he should file an FFe for unity-greeter-session-broadcast
[14:00] <seb128> mterry, hey, happy friday ;-)
[14:00] <seb128> mterry, ok, so 2 things
[14:01] <seb128> mterry, 1- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/location-service/+bug/1218896 ... I know it's crazy busy, but if you or somebody could find time to review that, it would be great
[14:01] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1218896 in location-service (Ubuntu) "[MIR] location-service" [Undecided,New]
[14:01] <alex-abreu> sil2100, thx for the MR & fix for webapps-applications's icon install ... overlooked it & forgot about unity-asset :)
[14:01] <seb128> mterry, it's blocking qtlocation work
[14:01] <sil2100> alex-abreu: no problem ;) doanac` uploaded the fix directly, so I backported it so all is cool
[14:01] <seb128> mterry, 2- I think I saw MR ongoing, is unity8 going to store its launcher config in as rather than gsettings?
[14:01] <mterry> seb128, will look right after I file an FFe
[14:02] <mterry> seb128, it is currently only storing it in AS.  But I believe mzanetti is working on it also syncing with gsettings.  You need gsettings for your work?
[14:02] <seb128> mterry, we have a "reset launcher config" in the reset panel
[14:02] <Laney> larsu: ah, I didn't try reading it back
[14:03] <seb128> mterry, trying to wondering what that means for us (I though it would be a gsettings reset, but it might not be as easy if it's in AS)
[14:03] <Laney> so you could definitely fail the update
[14:04] <mterry> seb128, well I'm pretty sure it'll be in gsettings too.  The AS side just got written first
[14:04] <Laney> it should be possible to do an AS reset somehow
[14:04] <Laney> the properties do have defaults
[14:04] <seb128> mterry, how is the sync stuff going to work? do we need to reset both?
[14:04] <seb128> Laney, ^
[14:05] <Laney> dunno
[14:05] <mterry> Laney, yeah, but the REAL default will likely be in gsettings
[14:05] <Laney> why would you store it in both?
[14:05]  * larsu hits himself for not making QGsettings::set() return a bool
[14:05] <seb128> Laney, can you unblock indicator-messages indicator-power?
[14:05] <larsu> now I need to break ABI :/
[14:05] <Laney> seb128: maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe
[14:05] <seb128> Laney, we need those fix in touch, and today rather than after beta1 ;-)
[14:05] <larsu> who is using QGSettings (from C++)?
[14:05] <seb128> Laney, be careful, or I send Mr Sack your way :p
[14:06] <mterry> Laney, seb128: we need it in AS for the greeter.  We need the default value in gsettings because it can more easily be customized by system builders than AS default values.  I'm not sure exactly why we also need data in gsettings
[14:07] <seb128> mterry, is the greeter supposed to behave differently depending on what user locked the screen? (trying to wonder if AS makes sense, or if it's just a convenient way to cross the different user boundary)
[14:07] <seb128> larsu, o/
[14:08] <larsu> seb128: I know :( It's just a return value though!
[14:08] <larsu> seb128: but I'll be fair and add a new function instead ;)
[14:08] <Laney> "only for the preferences item"> should check at runtime if it's installed then
[14:08] <seb128> larsu, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/telephony-service/sounds-events-from-gsettings/+merge/178344 and
[14:08] <Laney> but yes, power looks fine
[14:08] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[14:08] <Laney> messages isn't part of the FFe
[14:09] <mterry> seb128, not who locked the screen, but who is selected.  Though I'm not sure the multi-user case calls for a launcher.  But it's a convenient way to cross the user boundary
[14:09] <seb128> Laney, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html disagrees with you
[14:09] <jbicha> seb128: I'm going to try updating libgdata to 0.14.0
[14:09] <seb128> Laney,
[14:09] <seb128> "indicator-messages (13.10.1+13.10.20130829-0ubuntu1 to 13.10.1+13.10.20130830.2-0ubuntu1)
[14:09] <seb128>     Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers
[14:09] <seb128>     Not touching package due to block request by laney (contact #ubuntu-release if update is needed) "
[14:09] <Laney> block != FFe
[14:09] <seb128> Laney, oh, but FFe = feature, none of that has features
[14:09] <larsu> seb128: ooh, that never even calls set().. /me thinks bad thoughts
[14:09] <seb128> Laney, they are bug fix
[14:09] <Laney> ok, just checking ;-)
[14:09] <seb128> ;)
[14:10] <seb128> jbicha, would that fix the testsuite on amd64?
[14:10] <Laney> default change is arguably a feature
[14:10] <Laney> but not worth arguing about :P
[14:10] <seb128> ;-)
[14:11] <jbicha> seb128: I don't know because your upload builds here on amd64, but the new version does include some tweaks to tests so maybe
[14:11] <seb128> Laney, the indicator-messages is making the touch people quite angry
[14:11] <seb128> Laney, or at least they want it fixed, really (it makes the indicator not turn blue on new messages)
[14:11] <seb128> Laney, just saying ;-)
[14:11] <Laney> so... everything that is blocked is because it's on some flavour
[14:11] <Laney> which means that unblocks and changes potentially disrupt the beta for them
[14:11] <Laney> good for touch guys to bear that in mind
[14:12] <seb128> right
[14:12] <seb128> well, it's a bit early to stop bug fixes if you ask me
[14:12] <seb128> but let's not have that argument today
[14:12] <Laney> release schedule is king
[14:12] <seb128> I've been fighting with the stupidity of freezes for years
[14:12] <seb128> our freezes are quite retarded in that regard imho
[14:12] <Laney> there are discussions about it at almost every UDS
[14:12] <Laney> you could come and make your point known
[14:12] <seb128> and yet never an agreement
[14:13] <seb128> I tend to do
[14:13] <Laney> there's agreement amongst the people that turn up
[14:13] <Laney> watch the video of the one from this vUDS
[14:13] <seb128> well, first freeze would have been easier if people didn't decide mid cycle to drop vUDS the same week
[14:13] <seb128> that was an unknown info at the time the release cycle was made
[14:13] <Laney> ideally that would be considered with the release schedule really
[14:14] <seb128> well, release schedule was made first
[14:14] <seb128> that didn't stop people do put vUDS there
[14:14] <Laney> quite
[14:14] <jbicha> I believe that vuds scheduling conflict happened for raring too
[14:14] <seb128> jbicha, btw, new libgdata is in debian, you might to reapply my diff from yesterday on top of that
[14:15] <seb128> jbicha, oh, and happyaron wants to drop your g-s-d ibus dbus activation, you can read backlog if you want but it goes down to: the change makes ibus run for every single users, when most don't need it, and it creates problem for fcitx users (UbuntuKylin)
[14:15] <sil2100> Damn, everything is so slow today
[14:15] <Laney> that friday feeling
[14:16] <seb128> jbicha, he sais im-config does most of the job, and your bug is not a regression but what we had previous cycles
[14:16] <jbicha> happyaron: are you still around?
[14:17] <jbicha> ibus *does not* run for all users with the dbus activation
[14:17] <seb128> jbicha, I think he has a fair point, it's not ideal (ideally we would teach ibus to exit when the current config doesn't require it)
[14:17] <Laney> darkxst: can you take that ibus fix to your 3.8 version please?
[14:18] <happyaron> jbicha: ibus is running even though I got fcitx running at first hand, :(
[14:18] <jbicha> auto-stop would be nice but if all you have to do is log out after unconfiguring whatever ibus methods you used, it's not that big of a deal
[14:18] <happyaron> jbicha: it does nothing but waste memory, ~12MB
[14:18] <jbicha> happyaron: why did you add an ibus method to gnome then?
[14:19] <happyaron> jbicha: sorry I don't quite understant this sentence...
[14:20] <seb128> jbicha, UbuntuKylin uses unity but with fcitx instead of ibus
[14:20] <jbicha> do you have an ibus method set up in System Settings? if so, remove it from your list of input methods and log out and log back in
[14:20] <happyaron> jbicha: no I don't.
[14:20] <jbicha> I did test it here with ps aux | grep ibus
[14:20] <happyaron> jbicha: I just installed both, use im-config to select fcitx.
[14:21] <happyaron> jbicha: ibus isn't started for you because you are not running in a cjkv locale
[14:21] <jbicha> I've never used im-config (I don't think it's necessary in Saucy if you're cool with using ibus anyway)
[14:22] <happyaron> jbicha: but if you through away im-config then any other input method cannot run (maybe fcitx can), that's a major regression, which I think is much important than a nice-to-have ibus integration.
[14:23] <jbicha> but GNOME has integrated ibus like this for over a year, why don't you work with GNOME so that all distros can benefit from being able to use fcitx or whatever?
[14:24] <seb128> GNOME is opposed to fcitx
[14:24] <happyaron> jbicha: I agree im-config is old and not cool, but it's still necessary. anyway gnome is the only DE that would handle IM (actually only ibus), I think for a distribution maker dropping support for other ones is pointless.
[14:24] <seb128> that was an endless discussion for months
[14:24] <jbicha> having ibus not be dbus-activatable breaks gnome's ibus integration (which is what Unity uses too now)
[14:24] <seb128> typically "we are not about choice, we pick a tech and make it work"
[14:24] <happyaron> jbicha: unless you think we are making a GNOME OS, but apparently we are not...
[14:25] <happyaron> jbicha: I'm not sure how it breaks? I don't see any code related.
[14:26] <jbicha> it breaks me being able to select ibus methods in System Settings
[14:27] <larsu> Laney: fyi: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gsettings-qt/keep-propertymap-synced/+merge/183191
[14:27] <happyaron> the integration needs ibus-daemon to be running, and dbus activation is the cool way, but not the only way
[14:27] <larsu> Laney: thanks for pointing this out to me ;)
[14:27] <jbicha> ok, I see that just opening System Settings to the Text Entry page starts ibus
[14:27] <happyaron> jbicha: but it never quits.
[14:28] <jbicha> I agree with you that it would be great if ibus would be killed once it's no longer being used instead of having to be killed manually or requiring a log out
[14:28] <attente> seb128, yes, i'm off next week
[14:28] <seb128> attente, enjoy your week off!
[14:28] <attente> thanks!
[14:28] <happyaron> jbicha: yes, if it can quit when not used, everything is fine.
[14:28] <rvr> sil2100:  ping.... webapps-apps CI failed. cp: cannot stat 'debian/tmp/usr/share/icons/': No such file or directory
[14:28] <seb128> attente, do you think the current osk config stuff is ready to get in? or do you prefer to wait for you to be back/for those guys to use gsettings?
[14:29] <seb128> attente, we can either get it in, even in not perfect, and fix/change later, or wait
[14:29] <happyaron> jbicha: ...and it could be cooler, :)
[14:29] <sil2100> rvr: I know, it's fixed now and re-approved
[14:29] <sil2100> (maybe even merged)?
[14:29] <attente> seb128, i would prefer it merged if possible
[14:29] <rvr> sil2100: Cool
[14:29] <seb128> attente, works for me, enjoy your week off then, and see you online in 10 days ;-)
[14:29] <jbicha> happyaron: someone (not me) could probably write an upstart user session job job to start and kill ibus when needed
[14:30] <Laney> attente: have fun!
[14:30] <attente> seb128, Laney, thanks!
[14:30] <xnox> Laney: seb128: why does ubuntu-system-settings build-depend on ..... gdb ?
[14:30] <Laney> it does?
[14:30] <Laney> so it does
[14:30] <Laney> bzr blame?
[14:30] <seb128> Laney, it's there from the start
[14:30] <Laney> revision 1, of course ;-)
[14:31] <seb128> xnox, Laney: some of the tests stuff from mardy
[14:31] <happyaron> jbicha: it's a question that how to determine when it is not needed.
[14:31]  * xnox is trying to cross-compile it and i'm like WTF?!
[14:31] <seb128> is that an issue?
[14:31] <xnox> seb128: i'm grepping the tree for gdb and I don't see where it's used.
[14:31] <seb128> tests/Makefile.plugin:/usr/share/qt5/mkspecs/features/unix/gdb_dwarf_index.prf:
[14:32] <seb128> ?
[14:32] <happyaron> jbicha: maybe it should be done in ibus-daemon itself, but still not sure what's the exactly right behaviour.
[14:32] <xnox> seb128: i don't have tests/Makefile.plugin locally.....
[14:32] <seb128> xnox, Laney: I didn't check if it was actually needed for the tests, maybe it's not
[14:32] <Laney> xnox: qmake
[14:32] <Laney> but speak to the guy who added it
[14:32] <Laney> or try removing it and see if the build breaks
[14:33] <jbicha> happyaron: it's needed if an ibus method is configured in GNOME; it's also needed as long as gnome-control-center is open to the region tab (because ibus methods won't show up in the list of available methods unless ibus is running)
[14:33] <happyaron> jbicha: what if the user runs another IM?
[14:34] <happyaron> then it should never run, or quit immediately on startup
[14:35] <jbicha> happyaron: that's a tricky question, System Settings has very nice integration with only one IM; we shouldn't cripple that integration just because someone wants to do something different
[14:36] <jbicha> but maybe it could check if fcitx is running and we'll just have to release note the fact that you'll need to make sure fcitx isn't running if you want to use ibus
[14:36] <attente> jbicha, is the g-c-c ibus problem solvable by storing the list of engines somewhere?
[14:37] <jbicha> attente: I don't know
[14:38] <test_test> jbicha: because it do it in a wrong way¸ though that's another topic.
[14:38] <sil2100> seb128: can I get some packaging ACKs for the phone stack?
[14:39] <seb128> sil2100, sure
[14:39] <sil2100> seb128: quickies
[14:39] <jbicha> happyaron: we can sponsor patches if you figure out a way to make things better for fcitx without making ibus worse; I just don't really have the time & expertise to figure that out myself
[14:39] <sil2100> seb128: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/cu2d-phone-head-3.0publish/204/artifact/packaging_changes_dialer-app_0.1+13.10.20130830.2-0ubuntu1.diff and https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/cu2d-phone-head-3.0publish/204/artifact/packaging_changes_messaging-app_0.1+13.10.20130830.2-0ubuntu1.diff <- autopilot dep fixes
[14:39] <csslayer> jbicha: hi I'm fcitx main developer. A nicer way to make it work with im-config is to check GTK_IM_MODULE environment variable. if not don't run ibus.
[14:39] <happyaron> jbicha: I prefer revert g-s-d before fixing ibus...
[14:40] <seb128> sil2100, +1 (I already approved the MRs for those ;-)
[14:40] <sil2100> seb128: and new dep jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/cu2d-phone-head-3.0publish/204/artifact/packaging_changes_telephony-service_0.1+13.10.20130830.2-0ubuntu1.diff
[14:40] <sil2100> Aaaah
[14:40] <sil2100> Right, damn, forgot... ;)
[14:40] <sil2100> But that one is new I think
[14:40] <seb128> sil2100, +1
[14:40] <csslayer> jbicha: g-s-d uses XSettings and don't use GTK_IM_MODULE, while if that's set, the XSettings will not be able to override the im module that g-s-d want to use
[14:40] <jbicha> happyaron: but that makes ibus worse and I don't think we should do that
[14:41] <happyaron> jbicha: but that's a regression...
[14:41] <sil2100> seb128: thanks :)
[14:41] <Laney> Would a workaround be to make g-c-c not start ibus if fcitx is running/installed?
[14:42] <jbicha> Laney: I think that would be an improvement yes
[14:42] <happyaron> Laney: I guess checking GTK_IM_MODULE and XMODIFIERS would be good.
[14:42] <Laney> You'd have to do some UI to make that make sense too I guess
[14:43] <Laney> seems better than diminishing the normal case a bit, even if that's how it was before
[14:43] <Laney> then again I'm not volunteering to do the work ... :(
[14:43] <jbicha> if no ibus method is configured and g-c-c won't autostart ibus (because it detects fcitx running), then ibus won't be autostarted at all
[14:44] <happyaron> jbicha: but it's not the case according to my testing.
[14:45] <happyaron> jbicha: ibus is started whenever I logged in to the desktop, and I used im-config to set fcitx, and never have any settings regarding system settings and ibus.
[14:45] <happyaron> jbicha: I'm using zh_CN locale.
[14:47] <seb128> happyaron, is im-config the one starting it?
[14:47] <seb128> happyaron, or is GNOME starting it according to the locale?
[14:47] <seb128> happyaron, no ibus running here on my french desktop
[14:48] <happyaron> seb128: I'm nost sure, starting the test machine right now
[14:49] <jbicha> yes, I can confirm that with my locale set to zh_CN then ibus autostarts on login
[14:49] <jbicha> but that does not happen if I uninstall im-config
[14:49] <happyaron> jbicha: but I need im-config to start fcitx
[14:49] <jbicha> my point is that it is im-config that's broken here
[14:49] <happyaron> jbicha: so could be related to the convertion of im-config?
[14:50] <happyaron> jbicha: but anyway when ibus is triggerred to be activated, it never quits.
[14:51] <jbicha> happyaron: that's not really a problem if you 1. fix im-config and 2. implement Laney's suggestion of not having g-c-c autostart ibus if fcitx is running
[14:53]  * Laney builds a possibly final kind of is version of the lock security ui
[14:53] <Laney> this code has been confusing
[14:56] <happyaron> jbicha: I see, im-config starts ibus by default under cjkv locales.
[14:56] <happyaron> jbicha: so you may need to install im-config and fcitx, use im-config to choose fcitx, then logout and login.
[14:58] <jbicha> no idea, I don't touch im-config ;)
[14:59] <happyaron> so, what to do next?
[15:04] <jbicha> happyaron: maybe you could patch im-config and then patch gnome-control-center (maybe_start_ibus might be what you need to tweak)
[15:05] <happyaron> jbicha: I'm not sure what do you mean by patching im-config?
[15:05] <happyaron> jbicha: personally, I prefer to revert g-s-d before we get correct thing landed. it just fixes regression.
[15:06] <jbicha> with saucy, im-config doesn't need to autostart ibus; g-s-d will take care of that as soon as an ibus method is added to the user's active input sources list
[15:07] <jbicha> happyaron: it's a feature not a regression
[15:07] <happyaron> jbicha: I would like to remember you that we are not going to drop other IMs... so it causes regression in this mean.
[15:08] <happyaron> jibel: ibus integration is nice-to-have, but in my own opinion it is better done in a way does not break others.
[15:08] <happyaron> jibel: sorry, meant for jbicha
[15:09] <Laney> That's what he/we is/are trying to get to
[15:09] <happyaron> I'm not sure if the problem is fixable in saucy, so I think we can revert it for the moment, and reapply it once proper solution land in.
[15:10] <seb128> happyaron, we should optimize for the most common case though, e.g we should focus on making the default experience work great
[15:10] <jbicha> happyaron: but it's im-config that's broken here, not gnome-settings-daemon
[15:11] <seb128> happyaron, if that makes things harder for a few technical users than want to opt in for another IM, that's a tradeoff we are wanting to make
[15:11] <jbicha> also it appears like ibus's API is incomplete https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/panels/region/gnome-region-panel-input.c?h=gnome-3-6#n475
[15:11] <happyaron> jbicha: I don't understand why is im-config broken... it's conflicts.
[15:11] <jbicha> it's im-config that is starting ibus on your computer
[15:12] <jbicha> just a guess but perhaps the incomplete API is why gnome doesn't have an easy way to kill ibus themselves
[15:12] <happyaron> seb128: that would bite all kylin users
[15:12] <happyaron> jbicha: no it's not im-config
[15:12] <happyaron> jbicha: im-config starts fcitx...
[15:12] <seb128> happyaron, well, as said before can probably figure out a hack to disable ibus if fcitx is configured
[15:12] <happyaron> or how fcitx gets running before ibus?
[15:13] <seb128> happyaron, that would resolve the Kylin issue
[15:13] <seb128> jbicha, your libgdata upload seems to hit similar issues, the i386/amd64 tests are haning on "   /youtube/comment/query: OK" for a while in the log, I've a feeling it's going to timeout on that test
[15:14] <jbicha> happyaron: if my locale is zh_CN, ibus will start on log in unless I uninstall im-config < that sounds like exactly the sort of bug you've been complaining about the past 2 days
[15:14] <happyaron> seb128: I understand, and what I meant is that before either such a hack or an optimal solution land in, we could revert it at the moment. I'm not so sure that such a hack/solution can or can not land in saucy before its release...
[15:15] <happyaron> jbicha: it will start ibus-daemon if you never configured anything else with im-config, but if I do configured it, it won't start ibus anymore.
[15:15] <seb128> happyaron, there is 1.5 month before release, that hack seems an afternoon work to me
[15:16] <seb128> happyaron,  we can still revert later if we fail to fix/workaround it
[15:16] <happyaron> ok
[15:16] <seb128> happyaron, but to me it seems like that if somebody sit down for a day it would have it resolved
[15:16] <jbicha> happyaron: ok but im-config does not need to start ibus-daemon any more at all on GNOME or Unity
[15:16] <seb128> just needs some work
[15:17] <jbicha> I guess XFCE, LXDE, etc. would still need im-config to do that though
[15:19] <mterry> seb128, replied on the location-service mir bug
[15:21] <Laney> phew
[15:21] <Laney> finally got it, I think
[15:21] <seb128> mterry, thanks
[16:05] <Laney> OK, finishing slightly early to get on a train
[16:05] <Laney> see you Monday if I survive the weekend :P
[16:07] <seb128> Laney, have fun!
[16:07] <seb128> Laney, sorry, just set your mp as needs fixing, work for monday I guess ;-)
[16:16] <seb128> happyaron, did you look at the ubuntukylin-theme and chinese-calendar updates?
[16:16] <seb128> happyaron, JackYu is pinging me about sponsoring those
[16:18] <happyaron> seb128: not yet, was working on some other stuff related to the project.
[16:18] <happyaron> seb128: will next week work?
[16:18] <seb128> happyaron, ok, dholbach sponsoring the settings one, I'm just having a look to the theme one (that should be easy packaging change)
[16:18] <seb128> happyaron, sure
[16:18] <seb128> happyaron, just checking with you to not dup work
[16:18] <happyaron> ok
[16:23] <JackYu> seb128, dholbash, happyaron, thanks for your  work. have a nice weekend:)
[16:23] <seb128> JackYu, thanks, you too ;-)
[16:23] <czajkowski> Sweetshark: help! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1219002
[16:23] <ubot2`> czajkowski: Error: launchpad bug 1219002 not found
[16:39] <seb128> happyaron, JackYu: uploaded the theme, the calendar one seems a bit weird, the tarball includes e.g a chinese-calendar binary ... that one likely needs some more review monday
[16:42] <JackYu> seb128, ok, thanks.
[16:43] <seb128> JackYu, the calendar seems fine once the tarball issue is sorted out (seems like a bug that there is a compiled binary shipped in the source tarball)
[16:43] <seb128> JackYu, if you rebuild a clean tarball I might sponsor it a bit later
[16:43] <seb128> but I need to go away for a while now
[16:43] <seb128> have a good w.e everyone
[16:44] <seb128> I'm going to be back a bit to catch on backlog in ~1 hour then call it a way
[16:44] <seb128> bbl
[16:44] <JackYu> seb128, sure, see you:)
[16:52] <JackYu> seb128, I updated the tarball just now:)
[17:05] <Sweetshark> czajkowski: either a/ crashing libreoffice with libreoffice-dbg installed or b/ attaching the test document or c/ both would be awesome ;)
[17:05] <Sweetshark> c > b > a
[17:06] <mlankhorst> Sweetshark: still waiting on libreoffice ;D
[17:06] <czajkowski> Sweetshark: installing A
[17:07] <czajkowski> Sweetshark: by B do you mean attaching the offending doc ?
[17:07] <Sweetshark> czajkowski: yep, then I can watch libreoffice crash and burn myself and investigate the remains.
[17:09] <czajkowski> Sweetshark: hmm they are private docs for work :/
[17:09] <czajkowski> so not sure I can make them public tbh
[17:22] <desrt> ahhh.  paris.
[17:22] <desrt> i love this city
[17:23] <desrt> a place where you go into a restaurant with the intention of ordering a coke or a glass of water until you see that either one will cost you €7.50
[17:23] <desrt> and they won't let you leave until you order something because you used the bathroom and the bathroom is only for customers
[17:24] <Sweetshark> czajkowski: either file a privare bug or send me an private email. bug prefered because I dont know when Ill get to it TBH. :/
[17:24] <czajkowski> Sweetshark: sure will do
[17:25] <mlankhorst> sending files from A to B is very hard!
[17:27] <Sweetshark> czajkowski, mlankhorst: sending files via email has the advantage that you have a backup at the NSA
[17:29] <mlankhorst> well my isp has a copy
[17:29] <mlankhorst> for 6 months or so
[17:33] <kenvandine> seb128, Laney: i just set my background on my phone with system-settings/gallery-app via content-hub :)
[17:34] <kenvandine> with my hacked version of ubuntuappmanager...
[18:01] <seb128> kenvandine, \o/
[19:00] <tedg> mterry, So... this is fun.  The dbus signal has the object path on it as an env variable.
[19:00] <tedg> mterry, We called it PATH.  Which means we can't find anything to execute.
[19:00] <tedg> mterry, As there is no $PATH
[19:14] <mterry> tedg, hah
[19:14] <mterry> tedg, seems like we shouldn't do that
[19:14] <tedg> mterry, Yeah, working around it for now.  But then I'll take the conversation upstream.
[19:27] <tedg> mterry, Okay, pushed and update to the check-sender branch.  WFM
[19:27] <tedg> mterry, See if it WFY
[19:27] <mterry> tedg, will test
[19:29] <mterry> tedg, is APP_ID a package name or a desktop file name without the .desktop?
[19:29] <tedg> mterry, It is either a desktop name without the desktop or a click package ID.
[19:30] <tedg> mterry, $(pkg)_$(app)_$(version)
[19:30] <mterry> tedg, OK, cool.  I didn't want to have to do desktop-file-to-package-name lookups from the greeter.  I remember hearing it was a package name, but that must just be for click stuff
[19:31] <mterry> tedg, so this only supports desktop files that are in /usr/share/applications?  :-/
[19:31] <tedg> mterry, No, $XDG_DATA_DIRS/applications/
[19:31] <tedg> Where that's an array
[19:32] <mterry> tedg, fair...  But still, I like arbitrary paths.  I don't have a strong use case...  but I think the launcher currently allows it
[19:32] <tedg> mterry, We can't really contain arbitrary paths...
[19:32] <mterry> tedg, fair enough
[19:34] <mterry> tedg, oh hey, you fixed dbus autostarting too...
[19:34] <tedg> mterry, Yeah, was missing a "user"
[19:34] <mterry> tedg, WFM.  will approve
[19:34] <tedg> mterry, Not sure if we should make a user for this.  Seems trivial, yet... never too safe.
[19:35] <tedg> mterry, \o/
[19:37] <tedg> mterry, https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/upstart/obj-path/+merge/183259
[19:40] <mterry> tedg, tiny nit on your branch
[19:40] <mterry> the u-g-s-b one
[19:40] <tedg> NOO!!!
[19:40] <tedg> :-)
[19:42] <tedg> Okay, everyone quiet.  Don't tell bryceh.
[19:44] <tedg> mterry, Updated
[19:44] <mterry> tedg, approved, thanks!
[19:44] <mterry> tedg, I also filed a branch to remove the library for now
[19:45] <mterry> tedg, and filed an FFe
[19:45] <tedg> mterry, Oh, okay.  Is it not useful?
[19:45] <tedg> mterry, I have on my TODO to add it to the Ubuntu Touch FFe
[19:46] <mterry> tedg, it isn't written yet, and I didn't happen to use it on my first cut of support in unity8-greeter (didn't know it existed at the time)
[19:46] <tedg> mterry, I guess, would you use it if you knew about it?  :-)
[19:46] <mterry> tedg, and I thought it would simplify NEW and such if we didn't pretend to have functionality/packages we don't yet
[19:46] <tedg> K
[19:46] <tedg> Sounds fine to me.
[19:46] <mterry> tedg, maybe?  I dunno.  I guess I'd want the call to be async
[19:47] <mterry> tedg, or offer an async version
[19:47] <tedg> mterry, Do you want a response?  I figured it'd be fire and forget.
[19:47] <mterry> tedg, plus, it makes it easier for testing our unity8 plugin if I can change the call to use session bus instead (for mocking on the session bus).  So it's nice to go directly to dbus for that
[19:48] <mterry> tedg, well, for handling errors and such...  Not that I plan to do anything intelligible with them, but just in terms of desiging an API
[19:48] <tedg> Makes sense.  So let's take it off the todo list for now.  I mean, you are really the only consumer :-)
[19:49] <mterry> tedg, that's what I figured.  If the only consumer isn't using it yet, and we haven't written it yet...  :)
[19:51] <tedg> mterry, Ah, it's already on the description for the ubuntu touch ffe
[19:51] <tedg> mterry, bug 1208989
[19:51] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1208989 in Ubuntu "[FFe] standing freeze exception for Ubuntu Touch-specific packages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208989
[19:51] <mterry> tedg, ok, will close mine
[19:53] <mterry> tedg, annoying that we could have had it in earlier if not for upstart 1.10 landing last minute  :)
[19:54] <tedg> Yeah, I should have convinced them to distro patch the dbus stuff... it was done a while ago.
[20:30] <bjf> i've just installed saucy (today's current) on a system with nvidia hw and i am getting a dialog that says "Your screen, graphics card, and input device settings could not be detected correctly".
[20:31] <bjf> this is a system that has run just fine with precise, quantal and raring (to a lesser degree)
[21:02] <robru> kenvandine, cyphermox, Mirv: anybody watching jenkins? sdk, services, and unity8 stacks are red, but only because of DNS issues with the server! bah
[22:22] <cyphermox> robru: just rerun what failed