[03:24] <ali1234> ochosi: i think i know why it isn't working. there is no libsoundmenu.so anywhere on my system. it looks like the way indicators work has been changed yet again and now they are just executables, so there is nothing for the indicator-applet to load (it directly loads the .so files)
[03:25] <ali1234> if i understand correctly it means indicator-applet will have to be totally rewritten to make this work
[16:41] <ali1234> ochosi: this is where they patched the gnome fallback indicator applet for the new style indicators, the same thing needs to be done with xfce: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-applet/trunk.13.10/revision/409
[17:23] <ali1234> actually this code looks rather familiar :P
[20:40] <Noskcaj> If i get gthumb working this weekend, will we be able to get it into saucy?
[20:48] <Noskcaj> AN IT BUILDS!
[21:10] <skellat> Noskcaj: Does it fix any bugs by getting a new gthumb in?  If not you need to file a Feature Freeze Exception request bug.
[21:40] <knome> micahg, i disagree with your indicators decision...
[21:41] <ochosi> knome: i was off for a while, what's up ^ ?
[21:41] <Noskcaj> The gthumb changelog is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/6045779/
[21:41] <knome> ochosi, referring to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2013-August/002523.html
[21:42] <ochosi> ah
[21:42] <ochosi> i see
[21:43] <ochosi> well frankly, so far, little testing has been done on that
[21:43] <ochosi> ali1234 reported some issues that i'm chatting andrzejr up about atm
[21:43] <knome> i think it's too late to back up after fighting with it and not saying no back then..
[21:43] <skellat> Noskcaj: But are bugs being fixed that are tracked in Ubuntu?
[21:44] <knome> i think i'm more against the way/time how the decision turned out rather than the decision itself
[21:44] <ochosi> mhm
[21:44] <ali1234> ochosi: it looks like it should be easy to make the new indicators work, the source code of the indicator applet is mostly shared with the gnome one, and that is already fixed.
[21:44] <ochosi> agreed, that should be discussed
[21:45] <ochosi> ali1234: thanks for the research and testing on that btw!
[21:45] <skellat> Noskcaj: That is to say, any of the bugs listed here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gthumb
[21:45] <knome> otoh, it's too late to discuss it now because it won't now land in for beta 1, and i agree landing after b1 is too late
[21:46]  * ochosi dislikes last-minute hop-or-drop decisions...
[21:46] <Noskcaj> skellat, i'll do that when i get back from my first soccer game
[21:47] <skellat> Noskcaj: Okay.  Debian-side has a Request for Adoption so I'm wondering if pushing this through Debian first might be a better idea
[21:47] <Noskcaj> skellat, i am
[21:47] <skellat> Okay. 
[21:48] <knome> for me, gthumb is an okay application, but i'm not specifically a fan of it.
[21:48] <ochosi> +1
[21:48] <ochosi> if shotwell weren't qt, we could ship that
[21:48] <ochosi> it's quite nice thb
[21:48] <Noskcaj> I don't use it either
[21:48] <ochosi> tbh
[21:48] <skellat> Noskcaj: Now, if you're looking for a new challenge to start packaging I can help you with the manual page for this one: https://launchpad.net/markdowner
[21:48] <knome> having said that, i don't think anybody should maintain it just because it is a "xubuntu application", but because they like it and *want* to maintain it
[21:49]  * ochosi remembers we started shipping it for supporting special cameras...
[21:49] <skellat> That needs to start off in Debian so it isn't going to get into Saucy but it would be nice to have it in T
[21:49] <knome> ochosi, you remember wrong
[21:49] <knome> we started shipping it because ristretto was broken
[21:49] <ochosi> knome: so why then?
[21:49] <knome> we kept it because it supported more cameras
[21:49] <ochosi> weird, it's not really a simple image viewer
[21:50] <knome> sure, but that was our best option to replace ristretto
[21:50] <knome> to replace *broken* ristretto
[21:50] <knome> once ristretto was back in the business, it could've served as the simple image viewer, but by that time people apprently wanted more
[21:51] <Noskcaj> skellat, i'll look into that after gthumb works (i'll try and transfer ownership to the gnome team) and i've finished etm-qt
[21:51] <Unit193> knome: He said somthing about pushing in backports for saucy, though it may have changed.
[21:51] <skellat> Noskcaj: Okay.  Markdowner is a fun little python-based thing that is a basic Markdown text editor that lets gives you HTML preview and lets you save Markdown & HTML.
[21:52] <skellat> Something a little less heavy-duty than some of the other things you've tackled thus far
[21:52] <Noskcaj> skellat, sound interesting
[21:52] <Noskcaj> *sounds
[21:53] <knome> Unit193, not the same, but yep, i remember seeing that as well
[21:53] <Unit193> Sure it's not the same, but far better than nothing.
[21:54] <knome> i suppose.
[21:54] <skellat> I'll be interested if the maintainer ever responds on Debian Bug #712102 even though that little package is finally unseeded on our end downstream.
[21:54] <knome> but then again, eating at a crappy fast-food restaurant is better than not eating...
[21:55] <Unit193> I wouldn't compare backports to crappy fastfood, but that's me.
[21:56] <skellat> Unit193: Depends upon the euphemisms in use
[21:57] <knome> Unit193, not backports, but the saying "better than nothing"
[22:02] <Unit193> Alright, I'll try it again.  It may be in backports, so that'll be nice.  :P
[22:12] <knome> heh
[22:12] <knome> fast food is nice if you're hungry...
[22:12] <knome> ...but it's not the thing you'd put in your mouth if you could choose
[22:15] <Unit193> Mmmmmm, fish sandwich from Rallys... :D
[22:16] <skellat> Unit193: You still have one of those establishments nearby?
[22:16] <Unit193> On trips it's close.
[22:22] <ArminasAnarchy> Hi all, does anyone have any news about an xfce-core package? I read something about how it might be in development, but figured this would be the place to check the progress.
[22:22] <ochosi> you mean a xfce-core packageset?
[22:24] <skellat> ArminasAnarchy: I dropped the ball on that as other life issues came up.  
[22:24] <ArminasAnarchy> Package set? I heard there was discussion about creating a meta package with just vital desktop components (i.e. window manager, xserver, thunar etc) with things like xchat, gnumeric, abiword out.
[22:24] <ArminasAnarchy> it might have been xubuntu-core or something, I can't remember
[22:24] <ArminasAnarchy> Ahh were you the dev? Has anyone else picked it up?
[22:25] <skellat> ArminasAnarchy: Again, I dropped the ball on that.  Little things like dealing with one's mother in the hospital with cardiac issues kinda do a number on your priorities.
[22:25] <skellat> ArminasAnarchy: Unless somebody has done so in secret, nope.
[22:25] <knome> ArminasAnarchy, no, it hasn't been worked on now.
[22:25] <knome> theoretically it could hit 13.10, but not as an option at installation time
[22:26] <skellat> ArminasAnarchy: We're after Feature Freeze so it is very likely to not hit 13.10 in anything shipped.  I may get started next month putting together documentation for us to consider prior to the T cycle that begins near the end of October.
[22:26] <Unit193> I looked at that one, and mentally half made the list...
[22:27] <knome> Unit193, yes, it's one of those things that are easy to half-do mentally...
[22:27] <ArminasAnarchy> Sorry about your Mam, skellat. =( I hope she gets well soon and you both pull through. I don't suppose it's the kind of thing you can really build into any plans/timetable :|
[22:27] <knome> regardless if you meant "in a mental state" or "in one's mind"
[22:28] <Unit193> knome: Really all you need to do is look at the current seed, and drop out useless items (I'd compare with the lubuntu one too, but that's me.)
[22:28] <knome> useless is a bad term, but yes.
[22:28] <ochosi> at least it's not a useless term
[22:28] <knome> :P
[22:29] <skellat> Once we're not messing with the seeds anymore I'll download the branches and start putting together something we can slap up on the wiki for discussion
[22:29] <skellat> Along with the other documentation work that needs to happen in September & October
[22:29] <ArminasAnarchy> I figured the way to do it would be to install it on top of a minimal installation...it'd be a little pointless otherwise?
[22:29] <knome> skellat, or pad
[22:29] <ArminasAnarchy> Do we have a release date for salamander?
[22:30] <skellat> 17 October 2013 (See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule )
[22:30] <Unit193> ArminasAnarchy: On top of the mini.iso is generally the thought.
[22:34] <ArminasAnarchy> At the moment I've a bit of time (at least until uni on the 20th), and I'd be interested in putting together this metapackage...I'm keen to get involved but don't really have much of an idea of HOW to.
[22:35] <ArminasAnarchy> Working out the packages that are needed should be easy enough, just a case of going through the packages I have installed currently, and seeing how many I could pull out without things breaking...right?
[22:35] <skellat> That's not the safest way to go
[22:35] <ArminasAnarchy> Or would it be easier to work from the ground up?
[22:35] <skellat> ArminasAnarchy: Yes
[22:36] <knome> or from the seed
[22:36] <ArminasAnarchy> the seed?
[22:36] <skellat> There are also some Technical Boards resolutions that have to be followed that are documented in the seeds that discuss minimum things that must be included.
[22:36] <knome> we can probably point out which packages are essential for the system "working"
[22:36] <htmlgifted> hay all htmlgifted 12.04 xubuntu user... Nice to met u.. I hope i can find and provide help to any one and every i can... Happy labor day to u all... tty all l8ter. 
[22:37] <skellat> The "seed" is the file that is what the metapackage is built from.  It contains the list of packages and whether they would be hard dependencies or removable ones.
[22:37] <ArminasAnarchy> Where could I find that?
[22:38] <skellat> For Xubuntu, our seed for Saucy can be found here: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.saucy
[22:39] <skellat> The whole set of seeds being worked on can be found here: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-seeds
[22:41] <ArminasAnarchy> So how do I use that? o.o
[22:42] <htmlgifted> what i see.... after doing the password...
[22:42] <htmlgifted> IDS/IPS interfaces.
[22:42] <skellat> You mostly want to look at the STRUCTURE file in this view: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.saucy/files
[22:42] <htmlgifted> configure which interface you want snort to listen to
[22:43] <knome> htmlgifted, wrong channel?
[22:43] <skellat> From there you can look at each individual file which has quite a bit commenting to it
[22:44] <htmlgifted> yah.
[22:44] <htmlgifted> srry.
[22:45] <skellat> And then you could compare against the Lubuntu seed which has a core file in it which lays out their core packages: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~skellat/ubuntu-seeds/lubuntu.saucy/files
[22:45] <ArminasAnarchy> Oh, and, is there any documentation on how to get involved? If there isn't any currently, maybe it'd be an idea for an experience dev to create something? It's a bit of a pain in the short term, but if it gets more people involved and makes contributing easier, in the long term it should be more than worthwhile.
[22:45] <OvenWerk1> skellat: Studio may be interested in such a meta.
[22:45] <knome> ArminasAnarchy, yes. http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
[22:46] <skellat> OverWerk1: smartboyhw apparently has some open seeds on Launchpad of his own.  He may be able to help cook something up.
[22:48] <OvenWerk1> I have been playing with some stuff too, but not anything custom in that way. It is not much work to take a xubuntu install and cook it to look like our install.
[22:49] <ArminasAnarchy> I'm in the situation where I love Xubuntu, and would love to be able to contribute, but don't have the time/patience to learn to code. So I could do stuff with testing, and maybe with writing documentation, but I've no idea with how to start. @knome: that page is far too brief. "Join the IRC and mailing lists" is going to leave most people lost.
[22:50] <OvenWerk1> The new monitor app works really well btw.
[22:50] <OvenWerk1> I am now aware of how messed up the intel g500 (I think) driver is.
[22:50] <ArminasAnarchy> Maybe something more explicitly stating how the project is governed and developer, where developers are needed?
[22:51] <skellat> ArminasAnarchy: knome is the Xubuntu Project Leader and guides the project overall
[22:51] <knome> ArminasAnarchy, also see the subpages below
[22:51] <knome> ArminasAnarchy, there's no clear area where we need help - we always need help with everything
[22:52] <knome> i also think that you should do something that scratches your itch, not something somebody just happens to need
[22:52] <knome> that's the best motivator, not us telling "our documentation is crappy"
[22:53] <knome> (it used to be... now people that like working on documentation has found their way to our project)
[22:53] <skellat> :-)
[22:53] <skellat> Next week is when we'll been probably needing suggestion on things to add to the offline documentation
[22:54]  * skellat has fingers flailing over the keyboard making typos...must go find food...
[22:54] <knome> that, and we'll need to rewrite some sections as well
[22:54] <knome> skellat, bon appetit :)
[22:55] <knome> ArminasAnarchy, also, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
[22:58] <lderan> oh knome theres been no further comments on the slideshow MP, shall i poke him a bit? :P
[22:59] <Unit193> OK, so did a round one for core...
[23:00] <knome> lderan, wondering if we should get more feedback from more people
[23:00] <lderan> sounds good to me
[23:00] <knome> oh bah, i need to test Unit193's slideshow-respin
[23:00] <knome> can't do that before mon though :/
[23:07] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/EnlmnypYiWKZfVRTjQxD/ it's not much, but a start.
[23:08] <lderan> ooo
[23:10] <Unit193> May have to put elinks or w3m in there to silence some deps on www-browser.
[23:43] <knome> bbl, sleepytime now
[23:43] <pleia2> good night, knome 
[23:43] <ochosi> night knome