[01:02] <Corey> Pici: Sorry I didn't get to this earlier. It was great meeting you. :-)
[01:59] <holstein> Flannel: i would like to speak with you in private, again, at your convinience, regarding the incident earlier
[03:45] <Flannel> holstein: Sure.  I'm around and will be for the next N hours.
[12:37] <Cane> !ops
[12:37] <Cane> y0
[15:57] <bazhang> why is mwn crossposting in #debian ; is he even using Ubuntu
[15:59] <ikonia> because he's an idiot
[16:01] <ikonia> if you are that stupid or that rude you can't grasp that channels are there to discuss their topic, you really shouldn't be using the channel
[16:02] <ikonia> it's annoying as it gets the attention it shouldn't as people respond just to shut him up, so spamming = gets help faster,
[16:03] <bazhang> he's now asking for an account reset for an account that is not his. wont take no for an answer
[16:03] <ikonia> thats up to staff to sort out
[16:03] <bazhang> yep. and spb owns it
[16:16] <ikonia> there appears to be a large number of people who just want an issue on freenode at the moment, rather than to just use the network
[16:18] <bazhang> thats been true for the last week or so
[16:18] <bazhang> last hurrah before Jr. High gets back in session
[16:19] <ikonia> the topics seem too mature (free speach etc) for kids
[16:20] <bazhang> that simply means they want justice! for unfair (it's always unfair) banning in channels freenode would never get involved
[18:32] <dolphin-man> hello
[18:32] <ikonia> hello
[18:33] <dolphin-man> I was banned a few days ago
[18:33] <dolphin-man> I am here to discuss it with the guy who banned me from #ubuntu
[18:33] <ikonia> yes, I'm aware you've been banned from #ubuntu-offtopic
[18:34] <ikonia> dolphin-man: allow me to save you some time - you're not going to be unbanned any time soon, you're purposfully a problem to the channel,
[18:34] <ikonia> so either take a long break from the #ubuntu-offtopic and refresh your reputation or find somewhere new for social chatter
[18:34] <dolphin-man> How did you come to that conclusion?
[18:34] <ikonia> your past behaviour
[18:34] <ikonia> your past warnings
[18:34] <ikonia> your past kicks
[18:34] <ikonia> your past bans
[18:35] <dolphin-man> I was told by the person who banned me
[18:35] <ikonia> so rather than drag this out into some negotation, it seems prudent to just be honest and advise you of this upfront
[18:35] <dolphin-man> to wait 3 days and then we would have a heart to heart
[18:35] <dolphin-man> and things would be back to the way they were before
[18:35] <ikonia> you where not told that
[18:35] <ikonia> you where told the situation would be reviewed in 3 days
[18:35] <dolphin-man> were*
[18:35] <dolphin-man> were*
[18:35] <ikonia> no problem, you were not told that, you were told the situation would be reviewed in 3 days
[18:36] <dolphin-man> You forgot to fix the other line where you used 'where' incorrectly.
[18:36] <ikonia> and thank you for proving you have an excellent grasp of English which now shows no excuses for why you've been unable to grasp the rules and instructions given to you by the operator team
[18:36] <dolphin-man> So I'm banned for the rest of my natural life?
[18:36] <ikonia> dolphin-man: so now that I've explained that to you, I suggest you think about either a.) taking a long break from ubuntu-offtopic, b.) finding alternative social chatting channels
[18:37] <dolphin-man> How long is 'long'?
[18:37] <dolphin-man> Forever?
[18:37] <dolphin-man> Months?
[18:37] <dolphin-man> Years?
[18:37] <ikonia> no, no set time, but I'd say a good few months to think about how you interact with people and refresh your repuatation
[18:37] <ikonia> (or find another social channel)
[18:38] <dolphin-man> I want to appeal this decision
[18:38] <ikonia> no problem
[18:38] <dolphin-man> ...directly to Mark Shuttleworth
[18:38] <ikonia> I'll get another op now to start the appeal process, and you can move to the next step
[18:38] <dolphin-man> ok
[18:38] <ikonia> ahh there we go
[18:39] <ikonia> this is why you can't be taken seriously
[18:39] <ikonia> and on your "Mark Shuttleworth" note - you're done
[18:39] <dolphin-man> Sorry, I thought he was the CEO of Canonical which releases ubuntu
[18:39] <dolphin-man> so I assumed he would be like the Supreme Court
[18:39] <dolphin-man> or something
[18:40] <dolphin-man> to where I could appeal
[18:40] <ikonia> one of the other operators can deal with you
[18:40] <Tm_T> hi
[18:41] <dolphin-man> Tm_T, are you Mark Shuttleworth?\
[18:41] <Tm_T> dolphin-man: Mark doesn't deal with IRC issues directly
[18:41] <dolphin-man> Can he deal with this indirectly?
[18:41] <dolphin-man> Is there a number I can call?
[18:41] <Tm_T> dolphin-man: you can proceed with the appeal process?
[18:42] <dolphin-man> does the appeal process eventually lead to Mark Shuttleworth? and sure let's proceed
[18:42] <Tm_T> one step at a time, no shortcuts
[18:43] <Tm_T> dolphin-man: follow the instructions in the link ubottu will provide
[18:43] <Tm_T> !appeal > dolphin-man
[18:43]  * popey notes Mark isn't the CEO, Jane is. She also doesn't deal with IRC issues.
[18:44] <ikonia> dolphin-man: what other nicknames did you use the ubuntu channels as before in the past please
[18:44] <ikonia> dolphin-man: the one I first spoke to
[18:44] <ikonia> (please)
[18:44] <dolphin-man> ikonia, I think this was the only nick i have ever used
[18:44] <dolphin-man> in the ubuntu channels to my knowledge
[18:44] <ikonia> I know it wasn't
[18:44] <dolphin-man> what was it?
[18:44] <dolphin-man> I am not playing dumb
[18:44] <ikonia> I'm just trying to look it up now, but I thought I'd ask first of all
[18:44] <ikonia> that's fine, I'll look it up
[18:45] <Tm_T> popey: not to mention Ubuntu != Canonical, but hey who counts (:
[18:45] <dolphin-man> ikonia, I may have temporarily changed a nick for a few minutes
[18:45] <dolphin-man> but never on any on going basis have I used a different nick
[18:45] <ikonia> fair enough
[18:50] <ikonia> dolphin-man: how about we make a deal
[18:50] <ikonia> dolphin-man: I'll remove the ban on you in #ubuntu-offtopic, however there will be no more warnings on language, interacting, trying to be a problem, trying to ruin any ones experience, etc
[18:50] <ikonia> anything along those lines and you're gone - for a long time ?
[18:51] <ikonia> acceptable ?
[18:51] <dolphin-man> Okay that sounds fair
[18:51] <ikonia> that way you have had fair warning your on your last offer of using the hcannel
[18:51] <ikonia> ok, I've removed the ban - you've had the rules/policies explained to you multiple times so I'm not going over them again
[18:52] <ikonia> be aware though, this is your very last chance.
[18:52] <ikonia> clear ?
[18:52] <ikonia> understood ?
[18:52] <dolphin-man> capito
[18:53] <ikonia> just looking for clear "yes/no" response
[18:53] <dolphin-man> yes
[18:53] <ikonia> perfect, excellent
[18:53] <ikonia> thank you
[18:53] <dolphin-man> Good thing you said that when you did
[18:53] <dolphin-man> I was just going to boot windows
[18:53] <dolphin-man> so i could look for a bookmark
[18:53] <ikonia> ok - so you know the rules correct ?
[18:53] <dolphin-man> yes
[18:53] <ikonia> ok, in that case, good luck
[18:53] <dolphin-man> I have to boot windows, I will back in a sec
[18:53] <ikonia> don't need to return here
[18:58] <dolphin-man> ikonia, would it be okay if I joked and said that I was unbanned due to an appeal directly to Mark Shuttleworth?
[18:59] <ikonia> no
[18:59] <ikonia> there is no need for that
[18:59] <ikonia> and it's just a lie
[18:59] <dolphin-man> :(
[19:00] <dolphin-man> ikonia,
[19:00] <dolphin-man> >Just got off the phone with Mark Shuttleworth. My ban has been removed ;)
[19:00] <dolphin-man> Please, please
[19:00] <IdleOne> mark has no authority to remove any bans
[19:00] <ikonia> what part of "no" do you not understand
[19:00] <dolphin-man> okay
[19:00] <ikonia> you've just had your ban removed - why are you already trying to cause a problem
[19:00] <dolphin-man> It would just be a joke
[19:00] <dolphin-man> but i understand
[19:01] <ikonia> dolphin-man: as your ban is resolved, can you please /part this channel unless you need something else
[19:01] <IdleOne> I should rephrase that. Mark can remove a ban if he really wanted to but in 8 years of using ubuntu I have never once seen him remove a ban.
[19:02] <Flannel> IdleOne: No, the CC can remove a ban.
[19:02] <dolphin-man> Mark works in mysterious ways, IdleOne
[19:03] <IdleOne> Flannel: right.
[19:11] <dolphin-man> I told a joke and then I explained why i was really unbanned
[19:11] <dolphin-man> I thought that would be okay and it wouldn't be deceptive
[19:12] <dolphin-man> hold on
[19:12] <dolphin-man> booting Ubuntu again
[19:15] <dolphin-man> I'm back on ubuntu now
[19:16] <Flannel> dolphin-man: Hi.  We don't care what OS you're using.
[19:16] <dolphin-man> I care.
[19:16] <Tm_T> dolphin-man: see you in couple months, now go and behave well
[19:16] <dolphin-man> but I just told a joke
[19:16] <IdleOne> dolphin-man: unfortunately your personality is not compatible with the majority of users in #ubuntu-offtopic. You have been given several chances to adjust to our channel culture but appear unable or unwilling to do so. I think it is best if you and #ubuntu-offtopic part ways and agree that we are all better off not interacting with each other.
[19:17] <dolphin-man> It's not me it's you.
[19:17] <IdleOne> you're right.
[19:17] <IdleOne> it is us.
[19:17] <IdleOne> Have a good life.
[19:17] <dolphin-man> IdleOne, are you an op in #defocus?
[19:17] <dolphin-man> IdleOne, I am in #ubuntu-offtopic right now
[19:17] <dolphin-man> I am not going anywhere.
[19:17] <IdleOne> I'm not but they have their own channel, #defocus-ops.
[19:17] <dolphin-man> Someone lent me a znc of their's
[19:18] <dolphin-man> IdleOne, they randomly banned me from #defocus-ops and then #defocus
[19:18] <dolphin-man> I literally wasn't doing anything
[19:18] <dolphin-man> I shut down my client and 10 minutes later I came back to find I was banned
[19:18] <IdleOne> well we have nothing to do with defocus
[19:18] <dolphin-man> okay, wait a sec.
[19:19] <dolphin-man> I am getting something off the Ubuntu website
[19:19] <dolphin-man> to defend myself
[19:25] <dolphin-man> sorry
[19:25] <dolphin-man> was distracted
[19:26] <dolphin-man> okay, why was I banned
[19:26] <dolphin-man> from #ubuntu-offtopic
[19:27] <Flannel> dolphin-man: Hi.  You were banned because of your attitude.
[19:28] <dolphin-man> what was wrong with my attitude?
[19:30] <Flannel> dolphin-man: So, just so we're clear on how all of this fits together: You've been banned a few times because of your attitude, you and I even discussed this a few days ago.  Then you get unbanned today, come in here to ask permission to make a joke about being unbanned because of Mark, get told no, and then continue to do so the minute you get into #ubuntu-offtopic.
[19:31] <dolphin-man> It was dismissed because it was deceptive, but I amended it so that after telling the joke in a vague way I gave the true reason for my unbanning
[19:32] <Flannel> dolphin-man: No, the way you told it was deceptive.  The way you asked about telling it was complete fiction.
[19:33] <dolphin-man> it was more vague than deceptive
[19:33] <dolphin-man> and I disagree with the ban for attitude
[19:33] <Flannel> dolphin-man: You're more than welcome to disagree, it's still going to stand.
[19:33] <dolphin-man> You cant establish such a thing within 30 seconds, and I would characterize it as positive
[19:33] <dolphin-man> because I said hi to my old nemesis in an effort to repair old tensions
[19:33] <dolphin-man> which I thought would please you guys
[19:34] <dolphin-man> as it was a sign of change
[19:34] <dolphin-man> I actually only said hi because I wanted to make it explicitly clear to you guys
[19:34] <dolphin-man> that I was going to make things different this time
[19:34] <Flannel> The problem with that "joke", both the way you told it, and the way you asked to tell it, is that it could cause a few issues in the channel.
[19:35] <Flannel> The biggest is probably that people will feel that you were being let back into the channel when you otherwise shouldn't have been (because of intervention), which makes them suspicious of you.
[19:35] <Flannel> That's not something you want.
[19:35] <dolphin-man> I gave the real reason for my unbanning
[19:35] <dolphin-man> i was explaining the story
[19:35] <dolphin-man> and midsentence i was banned, Flannel
[19:35] <dolphin-man> I wasn't even given a chance. I was basically pre-emptively banned
[19:36] <Flannel> dolphin-man: You weren't pre-emptively banned.  You were banned mid-paragraph.
[19:36] <dolphin-man> If you want to keep me banned go ahead, but you basically set me up to fail
[19:36] <dolphin-man> This was done in bad faith on your part
[19:36] <dolphin-man> Flannel, Yes. I was banned while I was explaining why I was unbanned
[19:36] <Flannel> dolphin-man: No, you set yourself up to fail.  We even told you not to use that joke, yet you persisted.
[19:37] <Flannel> dolphin-man: It's best to not even mention the fact that you were unbanned.
[19:37] <dolphin-man> I said it in a facetious manner as a segue into why i was really unbanned
[19:37] <dolphin-man> okay granted, Flannel
[19:37] <Flannel> That's true, you did.
[19:37] <Flannel> And it was a faux pas on your part, and now you're banned again.
[19:38] <dolphin-man> What time is it in the UK?
[19:38] <Flannel> I have no idea.
[19:38] <Flannel> Evening-ish
[19:38] <dolphin-man> do you think Mark Shuttleworth is at his office
[19:38] <Flannel> dolphin-man: it's a saturday, so I doubt it.
[19:38] <dolphin-man> I dont think I was ever given a real chance here
[19:39] <dolphin-man> I didnt know that you were going to have a black out over my unbanning
[19:39] <Flannel> dolphin-man: Luckily, we have a procedure to deal with this sort of issue.
[19:39] <dolphin-man> lets do it
[19:39] <Flannel> dolphin-man: If you feel like you've been mistreated, I encourage you to file an appeal with the IRC Council.  It's the best way of getting these things sorted out.
[19:39] <Flannel> Let me get you the information.
[19:40] <dolphin-man> okay thanks
[19:40] <dolphin-man> Can I be allowed back in while my appeal is pending?
[19:40] <IdleOne> No.
[19:40] <Flannel> dolphin-man: No, that's not how this operates.
[19:41] <dolphin-man> I am a wealthy man
[19:41] <Flannel> dolphin-man: I don't see how that's relevant.
[19:41] <dolphin-man> What if I make a sizeable 'donation' to Canonical
[19:41] <dolphin-man> I am an independently wealthy, eccentric industrialist
[19:42] <Flannel> dolphin-man: So, here's the appeals process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess  We're already at 3, so your next course of action is 4, which is to email ircc-appeals@ubottu.com
[19:42] <dolphin-man> what is the irc council channel?
[19:42] <dolphin-man> I dont have an e-mail
[19:43] <Flannel> dolphin-man: I encourage you to sign up for a free one from one of the many providers out there.
[19:43] <dolphin-man> that seems like a lot of work when we could just negotiate this between us
[19:43] <dolphin-man> Let's say I make the donation
[19:44] <dolphin-man> 'donation'
[19:44] <dolphin-man> can I be let back in?
[19:44] <dolphin-man> How much extra for op powers?
[19:44] <Corey> I think this has gone on long enough.
[19:44] <Flannel> dolphin-man: Your IRCC appeal is your only recourse.
[19:44] <dolphin-man> mark shuttleworth wont be pleased to hear this
[19:44] <dolphin-man> im gonna take a nap
[19:44] <dolphin-man> then send the email
[19:44] <dolphin-man> after registering
[19:45] <Flannel> dolphin-man: Have a nice day.
[19:45] <Flannel> dolphin-man: Also, since we don't have anything else here, please part this channel to keep it clear for other users, thanks.
[19:59] <dolphin-man> one more thing
[20:00] <Flannel> dolphin-man: We have no additional business with you.  Please respect the appeals process.
[20:01] <dolphin-man> sorry i just have a question about the rules then i will go
[20:01] <dolphin-man> to clear things up
[20:04] <Flannel> dolphin-man: In that case, please ask your questions so we can answer them and move on.
[20:05] <dolphin-man> if
[20:05] <dolphin-man> a big if
[20:06] <dolphin-man> if I receive an e-mail from Mark Shuttleworth indicating that he wants to be unbanned
[20:06] <dolphin-man> and given a new chance
[20:06] <dolphin-man> will his will be respected?
[20:06] <dolphin-man> he wants me to be unbanned*
[20:06] <Flannel> dolphin-man: There's a process to be followed, he will have to follow that process, just like anyone else.
[20:06] <dolphin-man> He owns canonical though
[20:06] <Flannel> dolphin-man: Canonical is not Ubuntu.
[20:07] <dolphin-man> Ubuntu is a big part of Canonical
[20:07] <dolphin-man> he should be able to veto
[20:07] <dolphin-man> Listen, someone here said that mark could in theory overturn a ban
[20:07] <dolphin-man> I will get that e-mail