[18:13] bkerensa: any luck finding that broken screenshot script and trying it out? [18:14] I'm writing a getting involved blog post for the team and it would be great to give that broken script job to someone [18:26] pleia2: The script is called collect-screenshots.sh. It lives in the root dir of the repository. [18:27] godbyk: ah, thanks! [18:27] pleia2: no problem. :) [18:28] godbyk: oh, and you have email [18:28] * pleia2 on docs this morning [18:28] nice [18:28] we can chat about it here, nothing private about the mail [18:28] 'kay. [18:28] Let me skim through your doc. One moment [18:29] The program 'bzr' is currently not installed. [18:29] hehe, new laptops [18:29] * pleia2 follows all her own instructions! [18:29] I take so many things for advantage like that. And when I set up a new PC I always discover just how many packages aren't installed by default. :) [18:31] There are a couple ways we can handle volunteers: [18:32] 1. Just let them review anything they like and hope everyone doesn't choose to review the same few pages; or [18:32] 2. Assign volunteers to certain pages to help ensure full coverage of the current docs. [18:32] my concern with 2 is that it seems like a big task [18:33] we'll need to set up a mechanism to track this and for people to sign up quickly so they don't get bored and walk away [18:33] It's usually not too bad. For the Ubuntu Manual, we just have a spreadsheet that tracks who is writing/editing each section or chapter. [18:33] ah, spreadsheet is a good idea [18:33] People can request particular sections/chapters and we try to assign them based on preference. [18:33] I used to like the wiki for these things, but so many people have trouble logging in to and editing the silly thing [18:34] At the end, we often have some sections that are still missing authors/editors and we then request volunteers to fill those specific slots. [18:34] cool [18:34] Maintaining tables on the wiki is especially bothersome, too. [18:34] yeah [18:34] so, shall I create said spreadsheet? [18:35] Sure. [18:35] Also, for volunteers who want to do some drive-by editing, they can just look at the current docs at help.ubuntu.com and let us know what needs to be updated. [18:35] There may be some mismatches between the 13.04 docs and the work we've already done on 13.10, but I don't think the gap is very large at the moment. [18:36] (This way the volunteers don't need to learn bzr or Mallard or anything. Just read the existing docs and tell us where the errors are.) [18:36] * pleia2 nods [18:37] is there an easy way to build the docs for viewing? [18:37] for xubuntu 'make' in the doc directory makes an html version that's quite handy for normal people reviewing [18:38] That's a list of all the .page files. We could group them a bit, too (e.g., a11y, accounts, add/remove, backup). [18:38] You can run 'make' in the ubuntu-docs, too, but you'll need to have a few other packages installed first. [18:39] wow, that's lots of pages :) [18:39] Thankfully, most of them are quite short. [18:39] I didn't actually realize the docs were so big [18:39] You'll need the following Ubuntu packages: bzr xsltproc libxml2-utils yelp-tools yelp-xsl [18:40] I think running 'make html' will do the minimum amount of work to generate the html files. [18:40] Reading the .page files (with Mallard markup) isn't too difficult either, but it's definitely easier to view the rendered HTML. [18:40] ok [18:41] oh gosh, it's taking like 4 days to do bzr branch lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-docs [18:41] bzr (or Launchpad) does seem awfully slow sometimes. [18:42] godbyk: are you able to access this? http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/sUWEmOmlvR [18:42] if not, I can add you to the etherpad team [18:42] much easier than reviewing+updating static file in my /temp dir on my website [18:43] pleia2: Yes. [18:43] ok cool [18:47] pleia2: One problem with viewing the html docs locally is that I think there are some http://help.ubuntu.com/... links in the docs so it may send you to the online docs at some point instead of the local files. [18:47] godbyk: ah, interesting point [18:48] some day when this bzr branch finishes I'll run through this process myself and see if there are any other gotchas [18:50] It looksl ike most of the links to help.ubuntu.com are in the footer, so it may not be as big of a problem as I thought. [18:51] There are some links to the community wiki, as well. [18:51] * pleia2 nods [18:51] In any case, I don't think it'll be a huge problem. If a bug gets reported multiple times, that's better than not getting reported at all. [18:51] agreed [18:53] ok, I'm going to share this spreadsheet with the list before sharing it in blog [18:53] Sounds good. [18:53] See what they think of the idea. [18:59] done [19:00] I updated your spreadsheet usage to have the reviewers check the spreadsheet first to find a page that hasn't yet been reviewed. [19:00] Hopefully that'll cut down on everyone reviewing the same few pages. [19:01] \o/ [19:01] Should I suggest that they call your home phone number if they have questions? ;-) [19:01] lol [19:05] ok, this post looks good, thanks godbyk :) [19:06] No problem. I'm happy to help. :) [19:06] Hopefully this will help jump-start things a bit. [19:11] One thing the spreadsheet won't help us with is determining what topics the documentation should cover that it currently doesn't. [19:11] Are there new features or default apps that we need to write new documentation for? [19:11] that's a very good question, bkerensa tried to get some help from jono on that but came up empty [19:12] the beta1 comes out this week and Ubuntu should have some release notes for it (they didn't do any alphas) [19:12] I'm inclined to mostly crib from those unless we find a better way [19:12] Okay, we'll have to see what we can glean from those. [19:12] It'd be nice if the developers/designers could shoot us an email or CC us on bugs when they add new features or change things. [19:13] Anymore, it seems like the documentation is an afterthought (if that). [19:13] yeah, that would be nice [19:13] the party line seems to be "read the blueprints" but there are like 100s :) [19:13] Yeah, and many of the blueprints never come to fruition. [19:13] yeah [19:13] They stall out for one reason or another. [19:14] I'm hoping that as the team becomes more visible again people will want to pay attention to docs and make sure their new stuff is advertised [19:14] I also get a little perturbed when it comes to breaking the UI freeze or documentation freeze. Everyone seems fairly cavalier about that. [19:14] yeah, I've really not been impressed with that lately [19:15] Branched 112 revisions. [19:15] w00t done [19:15] On the few occasions I've been involved with those discussions, we've either allowed the freeze exception or, if we protested the exception, sabdfl overrode us anyway. [19:15] godbyk: have you ever run this collect-screenshots.sh ? I'm wondering, do I just fire up a new 13.10 VM and try to run it and see what happens? [19:15] Finally! :-) [19:16] Yeah, you can run it in a VM to see what happens. [19:16] I wouldn't run it on your main installation because it changes the screen resolution and other things without prompting. [19:16] Be prepared for windows to start opening and closing a bunch, too. [19:16] ok, I'll do that in a bit and send my report to the list, then share it on my twitters and things so we can find someone to fix it [19:16] hah, I run Xubuntu anyway :) [19:16] The script tries to set the screen resolution then automatically run programs and take screenshots. [19:16] * pleia2 nods [19:17] Thanks. It's been on my to do list for a while and I just haven't gotten to it yet. [19:17] my husband's best friend is in town so I have a lonely day while they go tear up the town together ;) [19:17] Ah, nice. [19:18] although, I haven't eaten in a while and I should probably go do that [19:18] I'll post blog thing and play with script upon my return [19:18] Sounds good. [19:18] I'm going to take a shower and then find something to eat, too. [19:18] * godbyk slept in this morning. [19:18] * pleia2 too [19:18] see you in a bit then [19:18] See you. [21:37] pleia2: Well, I'm finding a few bugs in the collect-screenshots.sh script... [21:38] Line 110: dir should be $dir [21:39] Line 114: -eq should be == [21:41] I learned that you need to install xdotool before it'll work [21:41] Oh, yeah. [21:41] and imagemagick [21:41] See the comment at the top of the script. [21:42] We should add checks for those programs so it installs them if they're missing. [21:42] I am supposed to read the script before I run it?! details details :) [21:42] Yeah, no kidding! [21:42] I figured it out by running the script and reading the errors. :-/ [21:42] hehe [21:46] gosh, running ubuntu in a vm these days isn't exactly zippy [21:47] Yeah. [21:47] If you don't have a 3D graphics card it runs dog slow. [21:48] You know what would be nice? If someone had added comments to this script. :-) [21:50] hehe [21:50] * pleia2 follows the instructions this time and runs it [21:52] ta-da! http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=8443 [21:53] \o/ [21:55] Well, I finished running the collect-screenshots.sh script. [21:55] And I have a handful of screenshots in the ~/.ubuntu-help/en_US/figures/ dir. [21:55] Some of them seem okay, but I think some might be incorrect. [21:55] I think there are race conditions in the script. [21:55] * pleia2 nods [21:56] I think it means to kill all the apps it opened before making the next screenshot. [21:56] But since everything is running asynchronously it doesn't always work out. [21:56] (Or something) [21:58] http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-doc/figures/ ← here's what I ended up with [21:58] I think http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-doc/figures/unity-appmenu-intro.png, for example, is too cluttered. [21:59] interesting, different than mine [21:59] Does yours close the apps more quickly? [21:59] actually, looks very similar except for unity and unity2 (I didn't get those) [22:00] Ah.. the unity.png file won't exist until you fix a bug in the script. [22:00] Two bugs. [22:00] and nautilus worked ok for me, but my unity-appmenu-intro.png was wrong too, I got the calendar :) [22:00] Line 110: add $ before dir [22:00] Line 114: change -eq to == [22:01] heh, for -exit I got the calendar too [22:01] Hmm.. are you running at 1024×768? [22:02] yeah [22:02] Once you run the script you have to keeps your hands off the mouse, too. It'll move the mouse pointer around programmatically to click on those menus. [22:03] http://princessleia.com/temp/figures/ [22:04] Ha! Between the two of us we might have just over half the screenshots. ;-) [22:05] What a brittle way to take screenshots... relying on magic coordinates to never change, particular screen resolutions, random files downloaded from urls that could vanish at any moment, ... [22:09] yeah [22:29] I just pushed the couple bug fixes I mentioned above (lines 110 1nd 114). [22:35] great [22:55] I'm working on spiffying up the script, too. [22:56] Adding more status info (with colors!) and adding comments so it's easier to see what's happening (or should be happening). [23:02] \o/ [23:07] Wow, someone was feeling clever! [23:07] In the script, they set the time to be the same as the Ubuntu version. [23:08] For us to do that with 13.10, however, we'll have to switch to military time.