[09:43] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:42] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:03] <brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
[11:05] <bigcalm> What's happening, brobostigon?
[11:06] <dutchie> o/
[11:06] <brobostigon> not alot, might have bacon sandwiches for lunch, and might have a sunday pub visit. and you bigcalm ?
[11:06] <dutchie> yay new keyboard has shipped
[11:06] <dutchie> after old one had a minor beer accident :(
[11:06] <brobostigon> oh dear.
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> dutchie: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/washable-keyboard-k310
[11:07] <dutchie> heh
[11:08] <bigcalm> Hi dutchie. Where have you been hiding?
[11:10] <bigcalm> brobostigon: ordered and received a decent USB->PS/2 converter so that I can use _all_ of the keys on my Unicomp keyboard once more. Very cheap converters from China are to be avoided from now on :)
[11:10] <bigcalm> I missed my \| key
[11:10] <brobostigon> bigcalm: i see, didnt know that, wow.
[11:10] <dutchie> bigcalm: needed to not fail my finals
[11:10] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: the one between enter and backspace, or the one between shift and z?
[11:10] <dutchie> and then been on holiday
[11:11]  * popey considers lunch
[11:11] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: UK layout, the one between left shift and z
[11:12]  * brobostigon tries to remeber popey's bacon cooking method, to cause less washing up.
[11:12] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: there is no key between enter and backspace :)
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you're WRONG :P
[11:12] <dutchie> brobostigon: grill it?
[11:12] <bigcalm> dutchie: well done on such self control :)
[11:12] <bigcalm> dutchie: microwave it
[11:12] <dutchie> that works too
[11:12] <dutchie> although you can't get it crispy in a microwave
[11:13] <bigcalm> I've been having/doing microwaved bacon sandwiches for as long as I can remember. So it's a treat to have fried or grilled
[11:13] <brobostigon> crispy bacon i do dislike. it has to be done, but definatly not hard crisp.
[11:14] <popey> microwave
[11:15] <popey> plate, kitchen roll, bacon slices, kitchen roll, pop in microwave for 2 mins. done. 2.5-3 mins for crispy
[11:15] <brobostigon> thank you popey
[11:15] <popey> Found some fun multiplayer games on Ouya this morning
[11:15] <brobostigon> cool.
[11:16] <popey> shot the crap out of some aliens with the kids
[11:16] <dutchie> hmm
[11:17] <dutchie> maybe i have never managed to get it crispy because i only had a 600W microwave
[11:18] <popey> ours is 900
[11:20] <bigcalm> dutchie: just do it for longer
[11:20] <dutchie> yeah
[11:20] <bigcalm> Our butcher cut our bacon a little thick for my liking yesterday, so cooking it this morning took longer than expected
[11:20] <szymon_g> hi
[11:23] <dutchie> sigh
[11:23] <dutchie> now i have forgotten how to turn oven on in new house
[11:23] <dutchie> :(
[11:24] <bigcalm> o.O
[11:24] <bigcalm> dutchie: have you moved back to Worcester?
[11:24] <dutchie> aha
[11:25] <dutchie> bigcalm: no, new house in oxford
[11:25] <dutchie> was in worcester for a week or two
[11:25] <penguin42> ovens generally aren't *that* complex....
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> Cool: http://dev.citysdk.waag.org/buildings
[11:25] <szymon_g> what is the suggested way of installing closed-source nvidia drivers on optimus laptop? won't the default installer screw the xorg.conf? do i still need to have bumblebee installed?
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> The age of *every* building in the Netherlands
[11:26] <dutchie> the isolation switch was off and cunningly hidden behind the kettle
[11:36] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh that's impressive
[11:44] <mungbean_> hmm whycan't i make myself trust the bacon in microwave method?
[11:44]  * mungbean_ chomps on his fried bacon sandwich
[11:47] <brobostigon> brown sauce on bacon sandwiches rocks.
[11:48] <bigcalm> I used HP's Honey BBQ sauce this morning
[11:48] <bigcalm> Mostly to use it up though
[11:49] <brobostigon> i like the guinness one.
[11:49] <bigcalm> I have a bottle of that, though I'm not sure if I've used it yet. The taste is quite a strong one
[11:49]  * popey constructs cottage pie
[11:50] <mungbean_> we got served supermalt at church this morning. my son tried some, made a funny face, then guzzled the rest
[11:50] <mungbean_> certainly an acquired taste
[11:52] <mungbean_> BT have turned off dialup internet :-|
[11:53] <bigcalm> mungbean_: were you using it?
[11:54] <mungbean_> nope
[12:25] <mungbean> !ping
[12:26] <SuperEngineer> bomg!
[12:28] <mungbean> firefox seems to be going the gnome route..
[12:29] <mungbean> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/967108?page=2
[12:31] <mungbean> cannot right click? waaaat?
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> yay chrome
[12:41] <SuperEngineer> Installing Xubuntu on old netbook last night I broke a toe!!  No health warning anywhere on live CD... disgusted
[12:44] <penguin42> were you using a supported toe?
[12:44] <SuperEngineer> apparently not ;)
[12:46] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Ok, so hth did you manage to break a toe - was this trying to do a fn-alt-ctrl-shift-f3 ?
[12:47] <penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23919206
[12:48] <SuperEngineer> nah!  nipped to loo & suddenly remembered I hadn't plugged in the power pack - rushed to netbook & smashed toe into side of door - dumb!
[12:50] <SuperEngineer> ...followed by such words as "oh dear", "oh drat", "oh damn"... sub your your own real real life words in that - this is a family channel ;)
[12:51] <SuperEngineer> [clue - 3 words - all beginning with "f"]
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: "fun", "fancy that", "fiddlesticks"?
[12:52] <penguin42> ouch
[12:52] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: that is exactly right.... ish
[12:56] <SuperEngineer> neighbours must have thought there were three ducks flying overhead & I was counting them ;)
[13:10] <joshmyer_> hey guys, had an ultrbook with 12.10 insalled with full luks disk encryption. I want to format this disk and reinstall 12.04...When using booting off 12.04 usb I get the grub menu to install, but when I select to install from grub menu, I get just a blank screen...
[13:11] <joshmyer_> same for any distro, ubuntu/gparted etc..
[13:11] <joshmyer_> any ideas?
[13:13] <penguin42> joshmyer_: You previously had 12.04 on it?
[13:15] <joshmyer_> 12.10
[13:15] <penguin42> ok, which 12.04 media are you using? There are 12.04, 12.04.1, 12.04.2 and 12.04.3 now the newer ones have much newer X and kernel stacks
[13:16] <joshmyer_> 12.04.3
[13:16] <joshmyer_> but also gparted same thing happens...I get to the gparted grub menu, when choose an option, blank screen...
[13:17] <joshmyer_> gparted it _old_
[13:17] <penguin42> ok, so it sounds like 12.10 fixed something for your hardware that hasn't made it back into 12.04
[13:17] <penguin42> does reinstalling 12.10 work?
[13:18] <joshmyer_> no
[13:18] <joshmyer_> I dont think it's to do with the OS at all
[13:18] <joshmyer_> I get the same problem when trying to boot usb bootable gparted
[13:19] <joshmyer_> something to do with luks encryption?
[13:19] <penguin42> hmm ok that's odd
[13:19] <penguin42> normally luks is just something on one partition - doesn't normally get in the way
[13:20] <joshmyer_> ok
[13:20] <penguin42> the 12.04 installations you are doing - are you doing luks on those or trying a simple reinstallation?
[13:20] <joshmyer_> maybe not luks, but also don't think is OS specific...
[13:21] <penguin42> nod
[13:22] <penguin42> joshmyer_: on the grub menu there's normally a recover/fallback/safe mode entry - does that do any more?
[13:22] <joshmyer_> correct but no safe mode still the same
[13:23] <joshmyer_> safe mode doesnt load any gfx drivers etc
[13:23] <joshmyer_> so I dont think its a gfx driver / X issue..
[13:23] <penguin42> what ultrabook is this?
[13:25] <joshmyer_> http://www.novatech.co.uk/promo/ultrabooks-outofstock.html
[13:25] <joshmyer_> been running fine for 6 months
[13:28] <penguin42> ok, so not one of the common ones - hmm
[13:29] <penguin42> joshmyer_: Have you tried plugging in an external monitor?
[13:29] <joshmyer_> yup
[13:29] <joshmyer_> same problem
[13:30] <penguin42> ok, and I just want to check, this is that even getting to the installer is failing?
[13:31] <joshmyer_> ja
[13:31] <joshmyer_> I get to the gparted grub menu for example
[13:31] <joshmyer_> can see the grub background etc
[13:31] <joshmyer_> but when I select any options, even failsafe
[13:31] <joshmyer_> I get nada...
[13:32] <penguin42> hmm
[13:32] <penguin42> what other USB devices have you got plugged in?
[13:35] <penguin42> joshmyer_: Also, how are you writing the USB installation image - I'm thinking that might be the common factor here?
[13:35] <joshmyer_> unetbootin
[13:35] <joshmyer_> also tried yumi, from pendrivelinux
[13:36] <penguin42> and you've tried different USB sticks in different slots on the ultrabook?
[13:39] <joshmyer_> it's like it just stops reading the usb after selecting the grub menu
[13:39] <joshmyer_> yes
[13:41] <joshmyer_> going to try using unetbootin with the ubuntu.12-04.dvd now
[13:42] <penguin42> joshmyer_: You should be able to avoid unetbooting etc alltogether with the current ubuntu images; they should boot striaght off the usb if you dd it on
[13:42] <penguin42> what are you writing the images on?
[13:42] <joshmyer_> usb
[13:42] <penguin42> yes I guessed that, but I meant what machine/os?
[13:43] <joshmyer_> ah sorry
[13:43] <joshmyer_> osx
[13:43] <joshmyer_> could dd the images over
[13:43] <joshmyer_> can't see it changing anything though
[13:44] <penguin42> only thing I can think is that the unetbootin etc is writing bad images - do the thumb drives you write boot on anything else other than the ultrabook?
[13:47] <joshmyer_> yes they boot ok on other machines
[13:47] <joshmyer_> :/
[13:53] <penguin42> joshmyer_: Well, if I was writing it on a Linux machine I'd write it using   dd if=theubuntu.iso of=/dev/sd??? bs=1024k   where the /dev/sd??? is the raw device of the USB disk, now I can't remember where that is on a mac, and you have to be very careful to get the write device
[13:54] <penguin42> hmmmmm - I wonder......
[13:54] <penguin42> joshmyer_: this ultrabook is booting efi mode?  Can it be switched to oldstyle bios mode?
[13:54] <joshmyer_> it is old style bios mode
[13:55] <joshmyer_> never had anything like this before..
[13:59] <penguin42> hmm odd
[14:00] <penguin42> joshmyer_: So you can boot grub but then can't boot any kernel?
[14:01] <joshmyer_> yup
[14:02] <joshmyer_> as soon as I select anything from the grub menu, I get a blank screen
[14:02] <penguin42> joshmyer_: and you're sure it's in old bios mode?
[14:02] <joshmyer_> same usb boots fine on other machines
[14:02] <joshmyer_> yes
[14:03] <joshmyer_> one thing I do notice though, on my other machine, the grub menu that boots up looks different, with like unetbootin title etc
[14:04] <joshmyer_> on my linux machine, I load it up and it's loading from the usb....but it looks like normally bog standard grub..
[14:04] <penguin42> hmm
[14:04] <penguin42> are you sure it's booting off the USB stick and not just trying to boot the broken thing off the disk?
[14:04] <joshmyer_> yes
[14:04] <penguin42> how?
[14:04] <joshmyer_> if i take the usb stick out, I get nada.
[14:05] <penguin42> if you boot into the grub do you see the right boot entries on the menu?
[14:06] <joshmyer_> yes looks like it
[14:06] <penguin42> ok, so which ones do you see with the ubuntu 12.04 or 12.10 image?
[14:08] <joshmyer_> just 'Ubuntu'
[14:08] <joshmyer_> :/
[14:09] <penguin42> that doesn't seem right, you should see in the menu advanced options and things as well and a memory test
[14:12] <joshmyer_> I can get to advanced options when the usb is not in, so advanced of the insatalled OS
[14:13] <penguin42> hmm, no I'm not sure what's going on here, it still sounds to me like the USB image you've got on the thumb drive isn't happy
[14:14] <penguin42> joshmyer_: is the installed OS still happy?
[14:14] <joshmyer_> ah ffs
[14:14] <joshmyer_> I think it's using UEFI bios...
[14:14] <joshmyer_> grubs saying invalid EFI file path..
[14:15] <penguin42> (15:02:34) penguin42: joshmyer_: and you're sure it's in old bios mode?  :-)
[14:15] <joshmyer_> lol well it looks like normal BIOS/grub...
[14:15] <joshmyer_> :P
[14:16] <joshmyer_> still doesnt get me much closer to figuring it out though
[14:16] <penguin42> can you flip it into normal BIOS mode?
[14:16] <joshmyer_> how would I do that?
[14:16] <joshmyer_> :)
[14:16] <penguin42> some option in the bios somewhere?
[14:19] <joshmyer_> cant see anything in there
[14:20] <penguin42> joshmyer_: OK, so if it's EFI I'd give a different diagnosis
[14:21] <penguin42> joshmyer_: Can you try a 13.04 or 13.10 daily to see if it gets further?
[14:21] <penguin42> joshmyer_: There is a load of weird stuff with buggy EFI bioses, and they keep adding more and more workarounds/fixes for them
[14:22] <penguin42> joshmyer_: You could try editing in the option    noefi   on the kernel boot line
[14:22] <penguin42> not sure if it would help
[14:24] <diddledan> one such buggy bios/efi implementation is the gigabyte "hybrid efi" which I have on one of my pcs which cannot boot non-windows in efi mode
[14:25] <diddledan> I've mentioned it before in here, and we concluded that gigabyte just screwed up royally
[14:25] <diddledan> :-p
[14:26] <penguin42> diddledan: Well there are whole rafts of different EFI screwups people have been sorting out; the gigabyte one doesn't sound as bad as the Samsung bricker
[14:26] <joshmyer_> hmm
[14:26] <joshmyer_> but have had linux on here for months! :P
[14:27] <penguin42> joshmyer_: Right but the interactions with EFI are 'weird' - one of the things is it has some storage space in itfor arbitrary variables that the OS can store, now it can get full, and this especially happens during installs, and different implementations have very different ways of dealing with it
[14:29] <penguin42> joshmyer_: I could also suggest updating the BIOS, but of course that can be danegrous, and you're going to need to figure out what machine you've actually really got - that one looks like one where a local retailer has stuck their own label on
[15:21] <shauno> is there an actual name for the connector used by 'normal' TV antenna?
[15:23] <penguin42> Belling Lee
[15:23] <popey> hmm. i have a process (predict) which works on my laptop but not on my server.. it gets wedged and I can't see why
[15:23] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6051688/
[15:23] <popey> I ended up having to CTRL+C it
[15:23] <penguin42> popey: Try attaching to it with gdb and getting a bt?
[15:27] <popey> hmm
[15:27] <penguin42> popey: gdb --pid
[15:27] <popey> will have a play
[17:35] <penguin42> hell ues, 3.9MB/sec downloads
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: slooow :)
[17:40] <penguin42> :-(
[17:40] <MartijnVdS> :P
[17:40] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Actually the thing I'm a bit annoyed by is the upload speed; it's 2Mbps, I thought I might get 3Mbps but the ISPs description is very unclear
[17:40]  * penguin42 could pay for 120Mbps down, but that costs a lot more
[23:33] <ali1234> can i highlight myself? ali1234
[23:33] <ali1234> no, apparently not
[23:33] <Darael> ali1234: Depends on the client, as I recall.
[23:33] <Darael> Th'art using Pidgin, looks like.  I think there's a setting that changes it?  I could be wrong.
[23:34] <ali1234> Darael: do that again please :)
[23:34] <Darael> ali1234: Certainly.
[23:34] <ali1234> hmm, message indicator isn't working
[23:34] <ali1234> thanks
[23:35] <Darael> No worries.
[23:35] <ali1234> i don't think pidgin has a setting for this. i'll get another client up and test with that
[23:37] <Darael> Well, TBQH I've done my IRC exclusively with irssi for quite some time, and my other group-chat is done in Psi+, so I could well be misremembering.
[23:37] <ali1234> i'm trying to get indicators working in xfce
[23:38] <ali1234> i think i'm going to need to do a baseline install with 13.10 unity just to see if they work there or not
[23:38] <ali1234> because all the others work fine
[23:39] <Darael> I assume that's installing Pidgin in a liveCD environment?  Because it'd be rather more effort than necessary to do a full install just for that :-þ
[23:39] <ali1234> it will either be a VM or a spare machine
[23:41] <Darael> ...gah!
[23:41]  * Darael curses at Banshee.  And Rhythmbox.  But not the Bean Sidhe.