[07:36] <zequence-work> I don't have a desktop client at home right now
[07:44] <cub> hi zequence-work, so you think you got the job? =)
[07:53] <zequence-work> cub: Yep
[07:54] <zequence-work> Haven't signed papers yet
[07:54] <zequence-work> so, not shouting hi just yet
[07:54] <zequence-work> hoping I'll begin on monday already
[08:01] <cub> cool
[08:01] <cub> do you know what you'll be doing?
[08:05] <smartboyhw> cub, can you zsync the i386 images of the daily? We are starting Beta 1 testing
[08:05] <cub> hmm I'm getting a libreoffice bug that from what I gather should have been fixed in 4.1.0 and we ship 4.1.1
[08:05]  * smartboyhw will do the amd64
[08:05] <astraljava> zequence-work: Nice, and thanks for the linkedin invitation. Pulling for ya. :)
[08:05] <smartboyhw> cub, report bug in Launchpad?
[08:05] <smartboyhw> astraljava, hello:)
[08:05] <astraljava> Hi smartboyhw!
[08:05] <smartboyhw> astraljava, I do have a connection with ya on LinkedIn right?
[08:05] <cub> Am I reading this wrong? https://bugs.launchpad.net/df-libreoffice/+bug/1206107 at then end it says a new release has been done. But I get the same error running 4.1.1
[08:06] <smartboyhw> cub, -.-
[08:06] <smartboyhw> cub, I recommend you to open a new bug
[08:06] <cub> smartboyhw, yes maybe or should I not comment on the one that's already there?
[08:07] <smartboyhw> cub, then you will have to change the status back to New
[08:07] <astraljava> smartboyhw: Yes I believe we do.
[08:07] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: Good job on adding a new job in your LinkedIn profile:P
[08:18] <smartboyhw> Hmm, got a problem, zsync can't recognize the file
[08:19] <smartboyhw> Permission denied!?
[08:19]  * smartboyhw can't believe he zsynced the image with sudo, for the god's sake
[08:20] <smartboyhw> Sigh, have to zsync the image AGAIN
[08:27] <cub> haha
[08:30] <knome> chmod?
[08:30] <knome> (or chown)
[08:31] <cub> clown?
[08:32] <knome> <- here
[08:33]  * smartboyhw has to send out the test announcement and make the release notes
[08:39] <cub> smartboyhw, zsyncing i386 now
[08:39] <smartboyhw> cub, great
[08:41] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, OvenWerk1, cub uh hum do we want upgrade testcases again?
[08:42] <smartboyhw> And BTW, what new things do we include in this cycle?
[08:43] <smartboyhw> (Except the Ubuntu Studio stuff itself)
[08:44] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: Please push the testing call to G+ and social mediae
[08:48] <smartboyhw> And do we seriously recommend it?
[08:48] <smartboyhw> (I mean, the upgrade)
[08:50] <cub> how do you mean smartboyhw ? If we won't recommend the upgrade we should it release IMO.
[08:51] <smartboyhw> cub, can you rephrase the second sentence?
[08:51] <smartboyhw> cub, the upgrade process from 12.10 -> 13.04 is so terrible, we don't recommend it at all
[08:52] <cub> Ah yes, but an upgrade from 13.04 to 13.10 should be recommended, right?
[08:52] <knome> how is it terrible?
[08:52] <smartboyhw> knome, I forgotten, but just doesn't work
[08:52] <smartboyhw> cub, we did not test it
[08:52] <knome> well done.
[08:52] <smartboyhw> Indeed, I cleared out the testcases
[08:52] <cub> Otherwise it's just stupid to do a 13.10 release. "Yes, we have made a new release but we don't recommend anyone to use it" :D
[08:53] <knome> the upgrade tests for 13.10 mean upgrades from 13.04 to 13.10
[08:53] <cub> but I suppose you mean that we recommend a clean installation?
[08:53] <smartboyhw> cub, yes
[08:53] <smartboyhw> Well, I think we can re-enable it
[08:53] <knome> even if 12.10 to 13.04 was terrible, i'd suppose many people are on 13.04
[08:53] <knome> if you are forcing a clean installation every time, i'd consider releasing once every year 
[08:53]  * smartboyhw figures out a way to re-enable upgrades
[08:54]  * cub notice his spelling error from before making the sentence very confusing
[08:55] <smartboyhw> cub, upgrade test enable
[08:55] <smartboyhw> *enabled
[08:55] <smartboyhw> We didn't test that before, so we need help:P
[08:55] <knome> the upgrade tests are a no-brainer, they just tend to take quite a lot of time since you first need to install 13.04
[08:56] <knome> if you are running the upgrade tests on virtualbox, and have the extra space, i'd create some snapshots of 13.04 system so you can get back to the 13.04 state, then repeat the tests with beta 2 and final tests
[08:56] <cub> Unless you have vanilla 13.04 in Vbox? Or should the tests be run on a "real" installation as well?
[08:57] <cub> same thought knome :d
[08:57] <knome> cub, as usually, real hardware is good, but even vbox helps
[08:57]  * knome gets something to eat and drink, will be back soonish
[09:00] <zequence-work> The upgrade messes up some user settings, from 12.10 to 13.04
[09:00] <zequence-work> We need to test upgrading from 13.04 to 13.10 to see if there are similar problems
[09:01] <zequence-work> cub: I'll be responsible of their linux machines
[09:01] <zequence-work> among other thing :)
[09:01] <zequence-work> for*
[09:01] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: BTW you got the new job right?
[09:01] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: Haven't signed a contract yet, but it seems very likely that I'll get it
[09:02] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, great:)
[09:02] <smartboyhw> Phew, the images does download very fast:P
[09:02] <smartboyhw> We can finish the image testing by today I think
[09:02] <smartboyhw> Leaving room for upgrade tests tmr and Thursday
[09:03] <smartboyhw> For the first time ever, I think we are doing the testing efficently
[09:07] <zequence-work> astraljava: Thanks! :)
[09:08] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: Are you going to participate in your city's Software Freedom Day event this year?
[09:09]  * smartboyhw is, and going to promote Ubuntu:P
[09:18] <smartboyhw> For a sneak peek, look https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1/UbuntuStudio (and ignore the upgrade stuff plz)
[09:22]  * smartboyhw just hopes that madeinkobaia can give them some artwork in time
[09:41] <cub> smartboyhw, I won't be able to run any tests until earliest on Friday.:/
[09:42] <smartboyhw> cub, why!?
[09:42] <cub> I'm very busy at work.
[09:42] <smartboyhw> cub, hmm
[09:43] <smartboyhw> That WILL be a problem for our testing:P
[09:43] <smartboyhw> cub, can you do the i386 image testing at least?
[09:43] <cub> well I have my our of commute every day, but that's it.
[09:43] <smartboyhw> -.-
[09:43] <cub> I can't commit to anything this week, no. In case I would fail to keep the deadlines
[09:43] <smartboyhw> Now my testing schedule has become completely wrong
[09:44] <cub> and I sort of need to keep my job. ;)
[09:44] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: I'm proposing to delay the upgrade testing to Beta 2 then
[09:44] <smartboyhw> If we can't get any testing at Thurs
[09:44] <cub> Is there a schedule where I'm scheduled in? In that case I would like to see it
[09:44] <smartboyhw> cub, no
[09:45] <smartboyhw> Just that I was expecting you to test the i386 image:P
[09:45] <cub> I might be able, I just can't promise anything at the moment.
[09:45] <cub> so I will pitch in whenever I can.
[09:53] <smartboyhw> DarkEra, hey, can you help do some i386 image testing?
[09:56] <DarkEra> smartboyhw, i would if i had the time. trying to finish a room and then we're off for a holiday
[09:57] <smartboyhw> DarkEra, OUCH
[09:57]  * smartboyhw is under-manned this time
[09:57] <DarkEra> also the testing would be hard on this crappy netbook
[09:59] <cub> DarkEra, what are you running?
[09:59] <DarkEra> cub, desktop wise?
[10:00] <cub> no the netbook?
[10:00] <cub> I use an eee pc 900 most of the time
[10:00] <DarkEra> it's a older one i have, acer aspire one 150 ZG5
[10:01] <DarkEra> i tested the previous release on it but it was a pain to work on
[10:01] <cub> :/
[10:01] <cub> seems to be similar to mine
[10:02] <DarkEra> yep
[10:07] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: Sure. We can wait with the upgrade test
[10:07] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, OK
[10:09] <zequence-work> svt.se
[10:09] <zequence-work> opps
[10:09] <cub> ?
[10:09] <knome> hehe
[10:10] <cub> It could have been a far worse url
[10:10] <knome> let's not talk about that
[10:17] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: xnox posted an email that asks flavours to recommend 64-bit images over 32-bit. Should we do that?
[10:17] <smartboyhw> That will be in effect since 13.10 he said
[10:21] <knome> smartboyhw, that's not what he said
[10:21] <smartboyhw> knome, didn't he?
[10:21] <smartboyhw> Similarly I'd like to ask all other flavours to carefully asses their
[10:21] <smartboyhw> demographic and target audience and potentially also adapt similar
[10:21] <smartboyhw> messaging strategy on their flavour websites to promote 64-bit images
[10:21] <smartboyhw> by default.
[10:22] <knome> "to carefully asses ... and *potentially* also adapt similar messaging strategy"
[10:23] <knome> he's just saying "ubuntu does this, you might want to do it as well"
[10:23] <smartboyhw> knome, that's an suggestion isn't it?!
[10:23] <knome> not really.
[10:23] <smartboyhw> knome, OK, I thought it is
[10:23] <knome> he's just asking for flavors to consider if this is the sensible thing for them to do as well
[10:23] <smartboyhw> Still, I would recommend this for Studi
[10:23] <smartboyhw> *Studio
[10:23] <knome> sure, that's up for studio to consider :)
[10:24] <knome> but there is no obligation to do so
[10:24] <smartboyhw> knome, of course
[10:24] <cub> doesn't that come down to how much RAM you have in the computer and wether you like to run VSTs or not?
[10:24] <smartboyhw> Well, I thought that when we mean "ask" we mean not strictly obligating
[10:24] <cub> I know you can run 32 bit stuff in 64 bit, but maybe not for the average user.
[10:25] <cub> From what I have gathered many of the users on the forums and such "just want to boot and record". Not fiddle around with getting stuff to run.
[10:26] <smartboyhw> cub, getting stuff to run is the same in 32-bit and 64-bit -.-
[10:26] <cub> I'm not so sure.
[10:26] <knome> there might have been installation or such problems with 64-bit maybe 5 years ago
[10:26] <knome> with flash and such
[10:26] <smartboyhw> knome, 5 years ago?!
[10:26] <knome> few years back? nah, i never bumped into anything that is 32/64-bit related
[10:27] <knome> smartboyhw, yes, 5 years ago.
[10:27] <smartboyhw> knome, I don't think that's still happen now
[10:27] <knome> i'm just saying that the argument "i just want to install stuff and not fiddle with it" is not a valid argument for 32/64-bit image choice
[10:27] <cub> smartboyhw, to get wine and whatnot you need to make VSTs run in 64-bit Ubuntu Studio, from what I've seen in the forums (haven't tried it myself) it seems a bit tricky. Something I could plunge down into when starting to look through the workflows.
[10:27] <knome> me neither; as i said, i haven't seen stuff like that in years
[10:28] <cub> knome, it might be? If we were to recommend one over the other it might be handy to have som guidelines. Like "If you want to run VSTs without a hassle, install 32 bit." for instance
[10:29] <knome> i don't know about VSTs, but if they are problematic on 64-bit installations, you should definitely look at those problems before 14.04 release
[10:30] <cub> yeah, I would have to good tests done on that before feeling comfortable to recommend something above another.
[10:30] <smartboyhw> Sure
[10:30] <cub> though, my personal recommendation is to not use VST. :D
[10:31] <knome> ultimately, if no-one ever uses VSTs on 64-bit, it's hardly going to be fixed
[12:13] <smartboyhw> zequence-work: When are you gonna send the T-shirt to me?:P
[12:23] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: Sometime by the end of the month
[12:26] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, ouch, I want that before the 21st for the Software Freedom Day:P
[12:29] <zequence-work> smartboyhw: Sorry. No can do :(
[12:36] <smartboyhw> zequence-work, :(
[12:36] <smartboyhw> Anyway
[12:39]  * smartboyhw tests the amd64 image
[14:07] <OvenWerk1> smartboyhw: I will try to fit in another 32bit test
[14:07] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, thank goodness:)
[14:08] <OvenWerk1> are we testing daillies running upo to B1, or is respin stopped already?
[14:08] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, stopped
[14:08] <OvenWerk1> good
[14:08] <smartboyhw> The newest daily is the pre-Beta 1 iamge and will NOT be respun unless absolutely necessary.
[14:09] <OvenWerk1> The other issue I had with upgrade was that the generic kernel showed up.
[14:09] <smartboyhw> Heh, Virtualbox sound is great:P
[14:10] <OvenWerk1> this is less of a problem now that we have made lowlatency always default.
[14:11] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, that will be a kernel issue (which happens in i386 only)
[14:12] <smartboyhw> zequence-work will hopefully fix that
[14:13] <OvenWerk1> knome: 32bit vs: 64bit: The problem we have with 64bit is that it will not include any 32bit only sw in an iso even though it is generally a possibility to install that sw afterwards.
[14:13] <smartboyhw> amd64 passed greatly
[14:13]  * smartboyhw marks it ready
[14:14] <smartboyhw> I didn't expect I can test the post-installation in Virtualbox, but it worked!
[14:14] <OvenWerk1> knome: the main point in this is with people starting to use linux in their studio after using windows and having an expensive collection of VSTs they want to use.
[14:15] <OvenWerk1> wine is still  32bit stuff.
[14:16] <smartboyhw> The biggest problem is Wine:(
[14:16] <OvenWerk1> The biggest problem is windows.
[14:17] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, agreed +1
[14:24] <OvenWerk1> and perhaps I should say windows sw. to be specific development practices. From dos times developers have felt it is acceptable to go around the os and use tricks to get a feature that the os doesn't support natively.
[14:24] <OvenWerk1> These things are invisible to the user.
[14:27] <smartboyhw> OvenWerk1, after you do the i386 image test see if there's any time to do an i386 upgrade test from 13.04 => 13.10