[00:24] <pleia2> micahg: +1 re: debian-derivatives post (if I had a mentor it may even convince me to get back into packaging)
[00:24] <micahg> cool
[00:25] <pleia2> much easier on my brain if all the orphaned packages we need to focus on are in one spot
[00:26] <micahg> I was wondering moreso if that was the best way to accomplish what I want in Debian
[00:27] <pleia2> what is it that you want to accomplish? highlighting the debian packages that are important for derivatives?
[00:27] <micahg> if having a derivative specific team is the way to go, or work harder to get those teams in other team
[00:28] <micahg> s/teams/packages/
[00:28]  * pleia2 nods
[00:38] <Unit193> Looks like I'm looking in the wrong location for this post.
[00:38] <micahg> https://lists.debian.org/debian-derivatives/2013/09/msg00000.html
[00:38] <Unit193> Ah, thanks
[02:06] <skaet> knome, Elfy -  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1/Xubuntu has the template for the release notes.    Please add Xubuntu specific content to it.    If you want to pull your release notes from a different location, change format, etc.  please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1 with any new location. 
[08:28] <knome> skaet, sure, thanks :)
[09:02] <ochosi> micahg: it would be great to get libxfce4ui with --enable-gtk3 in Xubuntu asap, some apps will switch to Gtk3 soonish (we're almost done porting Parole) so it won't be as easy for people to just install them
[09:03] <ochosi> micahg: just saying that even independently of the gtk3 indicators, that might be useful to have (and there are no backdraws to it, as far as i can see)
[09:09] <knome> hey ochosi 
[09:09] <smartboyhw> knome, so, you want to enable upgrade tests as well?
[09:09] <smartboyhw> :)
[09:10] <knome> i'm not sure how much upgrade testing we are going to do for beta1
[09:10] <smartboyhw> knome, OK
[09:11] <knome> elfy, what's your plan on upgrade testing?
[09:11] <knome> elfy, do we want to do testing along the way, or start with b2?
[09:12] <ochosi> hey knome 
[09:12] <ochosi> sorry i haven't been able to read all the backlog yet
[09:12] <knome> np
[09:12] <ochosi> you wanted some info on themes-status, right?
[09:12] <knome> ochosi, basically: update the blueprints
[09:12] <ochosi> ah, ok
[09:13] <ochosi> actually as i see mr_pouit should do that, my part of the artwork-bp is all done :)
[09:13] <knome> yes
[09:13] <knome> what i meant is that you should update it if mr_pouit didn't ;)
[09:13] <knome> i don't think he's been very active in doing that
[09:14] <ochosi> hehe, np
[09:14] <ochosi> done
[09:14] <knome> micahg, btw, we need a new docs upload at some point
[09:14] <knome> cheers
[09:14] <ochosi> any other bps that need updating or was there anything else you wanted?
[09:14] <knome> i was wondering if you knew about -devel
[09:14] <knome> (and doesn't hurt to go through all of them now and them and update as needed)
[09:15] <ochosi> anything specific wrt -devel?
[09:15] <knome> nope
[09:16] <knome> want to write something about artwork side to the release notes for b1?
[09:17] <ochosi> i could i guess
[09:17] <ochosi> where do we write them atm?
[09:17] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1/Xubuntu
[09:18] <knome> that still says lubuntu here and there
[09:18] <knome> bah
[09:18] <smartboyhw> -.-
[09:18]  * smartboyhw got skaet happy enough to reference all things as Ubuntu Studio:P
[09:18] <ochosi> knome: so artwork goes in software updates or xubuntu desktop?
[09:18] <knome> ochosi, desktop
[09:19] <knome> though notice there is no "desktop" section under highlights
[09:19] <knome> just under "known problems" :P
[09:20] <knome> but tweak to your needs
[09:20] <ochosi> which might be why i asked..? :)
[09:20] <knome> hehe
[09:20] <knome> whatever works for me
[09:20] <ochosi> i think mr_pouit didn't update our icon-theme..
[09:21] <knome> we still have time to do that though :P
[09:21] <knome> or he ;)=
[09:21] <ochosi> yeah, i agree
[09:21] <ochosi> still, it'd be nice to get the new meta-theme and all
[09:21] <knome> yeah
[09:21] <ochosi> otherwise orion isn't really usable
[09:22] <ochosi> did gtk-theme-config make it for b1?
[09:22] <knome> afaik, it's uploaded and we now need to add it to our seed
[09:22] <ochosi> so it's not installed by default in b1
[09:23] <knome> afaik, no
[09:23] <ochosi> so i guess it doesn't make sense to mention it
[09:23] <knome> well it doe
[09:23] <knome> does
[09:23] <knome> just tell we're going to include it in the final release
[09:23] <knome> but for now, this is the situation
[09:24] <ochosi> k, added
[09:46] <ochosi> ali1234: btw, in 13.04 the indicator-menus aren't all positioned correctly, is that fixed in git-master yet? (i've not been able to upgrade to 13.10 yet, and testing in 13.04 isn't possible)
[09:48] <knome> micahg, bug 1165266
[09:48] <ubottu> bug 1165266 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "missing keyboard shortcuts" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1165266
[09:48] <knome> micahg, and related branchs
[09:48] <knome> -s
[09:49] <knome> ochosi, oh! was bug 1204486 fixed?
[09:49] <ubottu> bug 1204486 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Unable to select alternate languages at login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204486
[09:50] <ochosi> i can't test atm as mentioned before...
[09:50] <knome> :)
[09:50] <knome> should it be fixed?
[09:50] <ochosi> hope i'll get to a better connection soon, maybe you can ask one of the testers to check again?
[09:51] <ochosi> if it's lightdm related as i think it is and lightdmgtkgreeter>1.7.9 has been uploaded to saucy then yes
[09:51] <ochosi> eer
[09:51] <ochosi> ligthdm>1.7.9
[09:51] <knome> it's the "greeter thinks you're locked while you're not" -bug :P
[09:51] <ochosi> yeah, lightdm broke locking in 1.7.5
[09:51] <ochosi> and fixed it in 1.7.10
[09:51] <ochosi> so i'd suppose that may be related
[09:52] <knome> yep
[09:52] <ochosi> but without being able to test it's just guessing
[09:52] <knome> 1.7.12-0ubuntu1
[09:52] <knome> i'm thinking of running an ISO test of few today
[09:52] <knome> *or
[09:52] <ochosi> sounds good
[09:53] <ochosi> hehe, debian uses lightdm-gtk-greeter for a screenshot of lightdm :)
[09:53] <knome> heh
[09:53] <knome> so apparently we have been doing something right?
[09:53] <knome> :)
[09:53] <ochosi> not in its latest version, but still not unity-greeter
[09:54] <ochosi> sure, but admittedly the gtk-greeter was originally written by robert ancell
[09:54] <ochosi> he just dropped support/maintenance for it
[09:54] <ochosi> (on us :))
[09:56] <knome> sure, but we have been updating the looks, right?
[09:59] <ochosi> we have
[09:59] <ochosi> and we have introduced some new features
[10:00] <ochosi> (clock for the panel etc)
[10:00] <knome> and isn't that the only thing that shows in the screenshots ?;)
[10:00] <ochosi> true :)
[10:00] <knome> gah
[10:01] <smartboyhw> ochosi, https://mentors.debian.net/package/light-locker ;)
[10:02] <knome> are we boasting here?
[10:02] <smartboyhw> knome, no, I'm telling ochosi :)
[10:02] <knome> also, did you look at the comments?
[10:03] <ochosi> smartboyhw: nice, mind to get in touch with pkg-xfce? they're currently maintaining lightdm so it'd be nice of you to get in touch
[10:03] <ochosi> (ok agreed, those sentences were a bit repetetive)
[10:03] <knome> heh
[10:03] <smartboyhw> ochosi, um, what are the build-dep needed?
[10:04] <smartboyhw> Since it sounds like it's difficult to determine out of a configure script -.-
[10:04] <ochosi> smartboyhw: i'm not a packager ;)
[10:04] <knome> was about to say the same thing
[10:04] <ochosi> bbl
[10:04] <knome> even if ochosi was, isn't the point of mentoring that you'll learn the stuff yourself, not ask everything from others?
[10:04] <knome> hf ochosi 
[10:05] <knome> lderan, if you have extra time, you could run ISO testing... :=
[10:05] <knome> :)
[10:05]  * knome is downloading amd64
[10:05] <lderan> can do in the evening :)
[10:05] <knome> cool
[10:31] <knome> ochosi, bug 1177116
[10:31] <ubottu> bug 1177116 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "maximise button does nothing in Ubiquity" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177116
[10:32] <knome> ochosi, i'd imagine it's not a *theming* issue though, just how the window is called or sth?
[10:37] <ochosi> knome: yeah, ubiquity has to set different wm-hints i guess
[10:37] <knome> yeah, marked as invalid for xubuntu-artwork
[10:38] <knome> you think you could investigate that?
[10:38] <knome> or bluesabre, or ubottu 
[10:38] <knome> eh, Unit193 
[10:39] <knome> elfy, reminder: we need to double-check the desktop/post-installation tests before b2, if possible
[10:46] <ochosi> knome: this can be fixed by setting a different window-type: http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/wm-spec-latest.html#idp6304176
[10:46] <ochosi> or in a more readable form: http://www.gtk.org/api/2.6/gdk/gdk-Windows.html#GdkWindowTypeHint
[10:47] <knome> ochosi, want to reply to the bug?
[10:47] <knome> i could then poke cjwatson/stgraber about it
[10:48] <ochosi> way ahead of you
[10:48] <knome> hu?:)
[10:49] <ochosi> well i already commente
[10:49] <ochosi> d
[10:49] <knome> hehe
[10:49] <knome> good
[10:49] <ochosi> so feel free to ping xnox or cjwatson or stgraber about it :)
[10:49] <knome> yeah
[10:49] <knome> i'm trying to fix up some of my mess first
[10:49] <xnox> at the moment bug is incomplete, as it's not obvious how the screenshot is taken: from live session or from ubiquity-dm session.
[10:50] <xnox> and ubiquity does set wm-hints.
[10:50] <knome> xnox, i just had the same bug while installing
[10:50] <xnox> if they are not honored, it's a bug with the window manager.
[10:50] <ochosi> yeah, it does, otherwise minimize would be there
[10:50] <ochosi> it's just not the ideal wm-hint
[10:50] <xnox> knome: from live session, or via "install now"
[10:50] <knome> via "insatll now"
[10:50] <ochosi> (for xfwm4 at least)
[10:50] <knome> *isntall
[10:50] <knome> *install
[10:51] <knome> xnox, is that the missing piee of information you needed?
[10:51] <ochosi> i'm not even sure there should be any wm-controls there
[10:52] <ochosi> i mean why would users want/need a close-button at all?
[10:52] <knome> yup.
[10:52] <knome> or the menu button
[10:52] <ochosi> xnox: thoughts on that? ^
[10:52] <ochosi> (i guess one option would be to set the wm-hint to popup-menu or something)
[10:52] <xnox> these hints (Gdk.WMFunction.RESIZE | Gdk.WMFunction.MAXIMIZE | Gdk.WMFunction.MOVE) are disabled in ubiquty-dm, if this is not reproducible, it means that xfwm4 is not respecting them.
[10:52] <xnox> or the way xfwm4 is run under ubiquity, doesn't respect them.
[10:53] <ochosi> they are respected
[10:53] <ochosi> otherwise you could move the window about
[10:53] <ochosi> or resize it
[10:53] <ochosi> or maximize it
[10:53] <ochosi> just the buttons aren't hidden
[10:53] <ochosi> which should happen when you set the window-type to e.g. popup-menu
[10:54] <ochosi> wm-hints!=window-type (as far as i understand)
[11:20] <knome> xnox, i left a comment in bug 1177116
[11:20] <ubottu> bug 1177116 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "maximise button does nothing in Ubiquity" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177116
[11:20] <knome> xnox, basically, the maximize button is shown in both modes
[12:15] <elfy> knome: noted 
[12:48] <knome> elfy, hai.
[12:48] <knome> elfy, what's your idea re: upgrade testing?
[12:49] <knome> olli_, hey. are you still following the xubuntu-devel list? there has been a few mails about mir stuff there
[12:50] <olli_> knome, I will checkt
[12:50] <Unit193> Weird, because the one guy has the same card as I do, but different issue.
[12:53] <knome> same card or same ID?
[12:59] <knome> we seem to be well on our way for the 13.10 release, but we still need to keep things going :)
[13:08] <Unit193> 00:0d.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] (rev a2) is mine, NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE,nForce 430] (rev a2) is his.
[14:38] <elfy> knome: other than we should, I've not thought about specifics 
[14:43] <skaet> smartboyhw, oops.  Sorry.  Bad edit on my part.
[14:43] <smartboyhw> skaet, what!?
[14:44] <smartboyhw> You should be apologizing to knome not me;P
[14:49] <skaet> smartboyhw,  yes I should have.   Sorry knome.  will fix.    Thanks for pointing it out.
[15:39] <knome> skaet, no problem. i thought it came from a template or something, because iirc, the same spots didn't work the last time
[15:40] <skaet> thanks knome.
[15:42] <ali1234> ochosi: what do you mean about indicator-menus?
[15:43] <ali1234> they look fine to me here on 13.10, but andrjezr said they look funny in 13.04 still
[15:43] <knome> elfy, drafting the gmusibrowser testcase at http://pad.ubuntu.com/SdNxa2psDG
[15:49] <knome> gmusicbrowser too
[16:04] <knome> skellat, merged your branch to -docs
[16:10] <ochosi> ali1234: well it's just that the menus of -sound and -network (=application) are 2px away from the panel
[16:10] <ochosi> and i never noticed that before today
[16:11] <ochosi> so i thought i'd check with you whether the same thing happens in 13.10
[16:14] <ochosi> knome: is it of any testing value if i upgrade to saucy now from raring?
[16:24] <ali1234> ochosi: nothing like that for me
[16:24] <ochosi> that's good to hear
[16:24] <ochosi> i'm in the course of upgrading atm
[16:24] <ochosi> so then i can test the gtk3 indicators too
[16:25] <ochosi> (again)
[16:26] <ochosi> ali1234: do you use git master or 2.1.0?
[16:26] <ali1234> last time i built, they were identical
[16:26] <ali1234> so 2.1.0
[16:27] <ochosi> there is one more commit that might be interesting
[16:27] <ochosi> http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=8272c586561c90ff29eedf552099d7b7d701a575
[16:27] <ochosi> but if the icon sizes are ok at the moment, i suppose 2.1 could also be used
[16:28] <ali1234> ah, they're not
[16:28] <ali1234> but that looks like it could fix it
[16:28] <ochosi> fix what?
[16:28] <ali1234> the icons have too much padding/border at the moment
[16:28] <ochosi> ah
[16:28] <ali1234> so to make the icons not look blurry, you have to make the panel bigger
[16:28] <ochosi> i can also juggle the css for them a bit
[16:30] <ali1234> hmm actually i dont know if the patch is meant to fix this or not, i guess i'll just try it
[16:30] <ochosi> sounds good :)
[16:32] <ali1234> hmm, it does have an effect
[16:32] <ali1234> the icons seem to be fixed size now
[16:32] <ochosi> that doesn't sound good..?
[16:32] <ochosi> i thought 2.1.0 should've done that already
[16:32] <ali1234> well, it stops them gettin rendered at the wrong size and looking blurry
[16:33] <ochosi> but..?
[16:33] <ali1234> well now if you shrink the panel they just get chopped off
[16:34] <ochosi> how do they look in a 24px tall panel?
[16:35] <ali1234> too much padding at the top and they are cropped at the bottom
[16:35] <ochosi> hm, ok
[16:35] <ochosi> without theming or are you using greybird from git master?
[16:36] <ali1234> i'm using orion from git master
[16:36] <ali1234> wait, actually im using orion direct from upstream
[16:37] <ochosi> right, that doesn't have any special theming for that yet
[16:37] <ali1234> the theme doesn't make any difference anyway - i mean it does, but not to the extra padding
[16:38] <ochosi> it does make a difference
[16:38] <ochosi> the indicators shouldn't look like regular buttons
[16:38] <ochosi> with all the detail, outline and border
[16:38] <ali1234> the don't unless you mouse over them
[16:38] <ochosi> so yeah, the theme should trim the border down
[16:38] <elfy> knome: thanks 
[16:39] <elfy> and I'll try and start looking at the desktop/post install testcases later tonight - probably whack it on a pad
[16:44] <ali1234> ochosi: a particularly obvious manifestation of the problem: if you add indicator-datetime and the xfce clock applet and put them next to each other, both tests should have the same vertical position. but they don't
[16:44] <ali1234> *texts
[16:45] <ochosi> again: with greybird from git or with orion?
[16:46] <ali1234> with any theme at all
[16:46] <ochosi> the *only* theme that supports theming of the indicators at all is greybird
[16:46] <ochosi> the others only theme the indicators like regular buttons
[16:48] <ochosi> anyway, i'll test tomorrow and then i can see whether i can influence the border any more
[16:48] <ali1234> ok, i'll test later
[16:48] <ali1234> bbiab
[17:39] <ali1234> ochosi: ok, greybird git works a little better, but not perfect - the test is aligned only when the panel size is even eg 24px, 26px...
[18:23] <ali1234> ochosi: does any theme have special css for launchers and the main menu? because if not, i think everything should look the same by default
[18:55] <ali1234> is there a tool to inspect the gtk "dom"?
[19:03] <pleia2> I really wish amjjawad would stop sending people off of our mailing list for help and recommending lubuntu - knome, perhaps time for a mod talk with him?
[19:04] <pleia2> the list is a fine place to ask new questions, it's completely inappropriate for him to be promoting his own support site there
[19:05] <lderan> agreed
[19:05] <Unit193> -users ml?
[19:05] <pleia2> yeah
[19:07] <ali1234> wait, you're talking about his sig only?
[19:07] <knome> pleia2, i agree with some of the points, however pointing users with 256MB RAM to lubuntu is appropriate
[19:07] <pleia2> knome: he didn't know that when he suggested it, it's his default suggestion when things don't work
[19:08] <knome> pleia2, sure.
[19:08] <knome> pleia2, let me have a quick PM with you :)
[19:08] <pleia2> sure
[19:08] <elfy> it's his default suggestion
[19:09] <ali1234> wait i'm reading the wrong list, nvm
[19:09] <Unit193> ali1234: You're reading the *right* list! ;)
[19:47] <ali1234> #gtk+ told be about a gtk dom inspector, "gtkparasite" - it works well with xfce4-panel
[19:49] <ali1234> git://git.gnome.org/gtkparasite is newer than github
[19:52] <ali1234> ...but doesn't support gtk2.0
[20:12] <elfy> knome: gmb looks ok to me. What do you want to double check the desktop/post install testcases for - way it's written? Duplicate tests/simpler requirement for the 2 now we have package tests?
[20:12] <knome> latter
[20:12] <elfy> knome: thought as much - just checking :)
[20:13] <knome> gmb is not ready yet, but that's pretty much what we came up with now
[20:13] <knome> i'm not sure if there's much sense to expand it further
[20:14] <elfy> as far as upgrade testing - when do you think we should target that - pre B2 or after - that would be only a couple of weeks
[20:14] <elfy> gmb - I agree - I'd say what is there is enough to test it
[20:14] <knome> well i'm thinking there's still a lot of things that are just updated or need updating, and i'm not sure if it makes sense to point too much resources to it yet
[20:15] <elfy> ok - how about I get at least a testcase ready - then we just need to pull trigger when we want to
[20:15] <knome> the upgrade testcase is ready
[20:15] <knome> it's a shared one
[20:15] <elfy> aah ok 
[20:16] <knome> so it's just enabling it now or b2
[20:18] <elfy> mmm
[20:19] <elfy> not much time between b2 and release - might be better to enable it now
[20:20] <knome> sure. want to do that or shall i?
[20:20] <elfy> can't remember how ... 
[20:20] <knome> heh
[20:20] <knome> i'll do that
[20:21] <elfy> point me at it though please :)
[20:22] <knome> let me find out myself first... :P
[20:23] <elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/builds ?
[20:24] <knome> i think so...
[20:25] <knome> heh, you probabty should ask balloons :)
[20:26] <elfy> probably - we'd not want to end up stopping the b1 being there :)
[20:59] <ali1234> ochosi: ok, figured it out - there is a GtkAlignment in the mix. something somewhere is setting it's bottom-padding to 0 but not changing any of the others, so it's unbalanced. setting them all to zero makes everything line up properly
[21:01] <knome> off for now. i might come back later today, but no promises
[21:01] <knome> see you later
[21:09]  * Unit193 forcefully takes over as XPL for the day.
[21:49] <ochosi> ali1234: that sounds good, can you push the fix to git yourself or have you contacted andrzejr?
[21:50] <ali1234> i have an account now. i'm not 100% sure the fix is right though, i actually need to set the padding to (0 1 0 0) which seems wrong, implies something somewhere else is wrong too
[21:52] <ali1234> ochosi: something that would be useful is to rule out the theme as a source of problems. can i get a "null" theme somehow?
[21:53] <ochosi> not really
[21:54] <ochosi> but can you set xalign and yalign to 0.5?
[21:54] <ochosi> (not sure what widget-type we're talking about now)
[21:55] <ali1234> those are already set
[21:55] <ochosi> all themes except greybird set border or padding
[21:55] <ochosi> but of you want i canpushsomething to set border, padding and marginto 0
[21:56] <ochosi> (soryy fro the typos,stupid ipad)
[21:56] <ali1234> i'm not sure what i want really
[21:56] <ali1234> greybird works with or without this patch btw
[21:56] <ali1234> from git that is
[21:56] <ali1234> so it has specific theming for indicator-applet?
[21:56] <ochosi> that's ok then
[21:56] <ochosi> yes
[21:57] <ali1234> so, do any themes have specific theming for other applets?
[21:57] <ochosi> i originally wanted it to pickup themingfromunityindicators
[21:57] <ochosi> but somehow andrzejr didnt get that to work
[21:57] <ochosi> and it's a bit complicated
[21:57] <ali1234> what does that mean?
[21:58] <ochosi> as xfceuses buttonsand unity uses a menubar
[21:58] <ochosi> we need special theming support for it inour themes
[21:58] <ali1234> also why doesn't the applet theme fully change? like the background colour? until i restart the whole panel?
[21:58] <ochosi> and other themes will potentially look bad
[21:58] <ochosi> that's gtk3
[21:58] <ali1234> but... gedit changes as soon as i change the theme...
[21:58] <ochosi> it's thesame with most gtk3 apps
[21:59] <ochosi> it didn't use to
[21:59] <ali1234> hmm... maybe it only partly changes too
[21:59] <ochosi> and probably doesn't in all its parts
[21:59] <ali1234> with orion the indicators look just like everything else on the panel
[21:59] <ochosi> with gtk3 you have to restart all apps to be sure
[21:59] <ali1234> except for the misalignment that is
[21:59] <ochosi> because orion has the same bg color everywhere
[22:00] <ali1234> i mean the button style
[22:00] <ochosi> mixed themes are more problematic
[22:00] <ali1234> not the background - that's always fine
[22:00] <ali1234> (after restart)
[22:00] <ochosi> yeah, that's up to th mer
[22:00] <ochosi> no, in greybird it wouldnt e
[22:00] <ochosi> be
[22:00] <ochosi> same for albatross and bluebird
[22:01] <ali1234> hmm, yes, you're right
[22:01] <ali1234> btw, i have an extensively modified version of orion now
[22:02] <ochosi> you can propose changes to satya
[22:02] <ochosi> if you want
[22:02] <ali1234> i put in the colours from radiance, and fixed the xfwm4 images so that you can recolour the borders without artifacts... and then made it get the gtk colours
[22:02] <ochosi> the xfwm4 changes canbe merged by me
[22:02] <ochosi> feel free to send them to me somehow
[22:02] <ochosi> even tarball via email is ok
[22:02] <ali1234> i'll fork the shimmer repo on github
[22:03] <ochosi> that's fine too :)
[22:07] <ochosi> ok, my upgrade to saucy is a semi-fail :)
[22:07] <ali1234> hmm you didn't try to upgrade-manager it did you?
[22:07] <Unit193> ochosi: Problem?
[22:08] <ochosi> no, i replaced raring with saucy in my sources.list and went with it
[22:08] <ochosi> Unit193: well i can't complain too much
[22:08] <ochosi> lotsa stuff is broken because my system was "compromised" by stuff from git
[22:08] <Unit193> That worked better for me than the "supported" method last release.
[22:09] <ali1234> i always do a fresh install
[22:09] <ochosi> i used to do the same
[22:09] <ali1234> upgrading exploded one time too many
[22:09] <ali1234> i've even seen the thing where the flavour changes
[22:10] <ali1234> eg you have ubuntu, you upgrade, now you've got kubuntu - wat?
[22:10] <ochosi> hehe
[22:10] <ochosi> yeah
[22:11] <ochosi> that can happen with borked dependency chains
[22:11] <ochosi> anyway, i assume i have tons of updates still waiting...
[22:11] <ochosi> all the ppas also needed to be changed now
[22:11] <ochosi> but the connection here is so slow, i might have to wait till tomorrow
[22:12] <ochosi> anyway, i'll get back to you tomorrow
[22:12] <ochosi> think i gotta hit the sack soonish
[22:13] <ochosi> seeya
[22:13] <ali1234> night