[01:14] <micahg> knome: I thought I uploaded that keyboard fix already
[01:27] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/keyboard-shortcuts/+merge/182352
[02:09] <micahg> hrm
[02:09] <micahg> is that a blocker for beta 1?
[08:30] <ochosi> ali1234: the icons are still misplaced in the gtk3 indicators even with greybird (in saucy)
[08:30] <ali1234> yeah, the icons are
[08:30] <ochosi> so there is definitely something fishy there
[08:31] <ali1234> it's because of the code that tries to make the indicators go in to rows if the panel is big
[08:31] <ali1234> it's terrible and doesn't work properly
[08:31] <ochosi> :/
[08:31] <ali1234> i've been reading it all night
[08:31] <ali1234> my only conclusion is it has to go. it cannot be fixed
[08:32] <ochosi> but generally speaking it works
[08:32] <ali1234> kind of
[08:32] <ochosi> i mean if you extend the panel to 50px you get multiple rows
[08:32] <ali1234> if you don't mind the icons bouncing around
[08:32] <ochosi> which is kinda helpful
[08:33] <ali1234> multiple rows isn't that useful really
[08:33] <ali1234> it only works with "small" icons
[08:33] <ochosi> but the indicators are fixed to 22px
[08:33] <ali1234> no, they're not actually
[08:33] <ali1234> 22px is the minimum size
[08:33] <ochosi> weird, they should be
[08:33] <ali1234> they can be bigger
[08:34] <ochosi> but they don't scale up atm
[08:34] <ali1234> like the datetime
[08:34] <ali1234> yeah, they do
[08:34] <ali1234> the code to determine the size is really complicated
[08:34] <ochosi> yeah, imo that should all go
[08:34] <ochosi> just fix the size to 22px and be done with it
[08:34] <ali1234> you can't
[08:34] <ali1234> datetime isn't 22px
[08:34] <ali1234> multiload isn't fixed width either
[08:34] <ochosi> but upstream fixes all iconsizes to 22px
[08:35] <ochosi> iirc
[08:35] <ali1234> well it might think it does, but it actually doesn't
[08:35] <ochosi> okie...?
[08:35] <ali1234> 22px is only the minimum size of any indicator but it does MAX(ICON_SIZE, gtk_pixbuf_w) and so on
[08:36] <ali1234> as part of the real calculation
[08:36] <ali1234> there is code which will scale the icon to 22px but only if the icon is square, and many aren't
[08:37] <ali1234> the code also forces text labels to be 22px high for no particular reason - that's why datetime is misaligned vertically when the panel size is odd
[08:37] <ochosi> :/
[08:38] <ochosi> so basically even ubuntu screws it up, and it only works for their scenario because their panel doesn't resie
[08:38] <ochosi> resize
[08:38] <ali1234> yeah
[08:38] <ochosi> that blows
[08:39] <ochosi> i'd suggest you explain that to andrzejr...
[08:39] <ochosi> i'm not really sure what the best course of action would be
[08:39] <ali1234> me neither
[08:39] <ali1234> i can't see a way to rewrite this that will work with all the corner cases
[08:40] <ochosi> well i'd say if it works without the corner cases it's still so much better than what we have now...
[08:40] <ali1234> i have it mostly working after disabling the multiline stuff but it still not quite right
[08:40] <ali1234> oh, the corner cases are why it's broken
[08:40] <ochosi> tbh i think that switching to a menubar would be one solution
[08:40] <ali1234> because of how gtk cntainers work
[08:41] <ochosi> that'd also solve all theming issues
[08:41] <ali1234> if you have a container with all different size things in it, it doesn't align/resize properly
[08:41] <ochosi> yeah, no wonder
[08:41] <ochosi> and then there are 3 different panel modes (horiz,vert,deskbar)
[08:41] <ali1234> but the way this works is that things can be 22px *or more*
[08:41] <ochosi> makes things even more complicated
[08:41] <ali1234> the panel orientation is actually the simplest part
[08:42] <ochosi> but can't at least the vertical 22px be fixed?
[08:42] <ochosi> just let it expand horizontally
[08:42] <ali1234> the broken code is dutifully cased to be broken in exactly the same way for both :)
[08:42] <ochosi> awesome
[08:42] <ochosi> reporting a bug upstream then maybe?
[08:42] <ali1234> yes, you can fix it to 22px, but if you do that with the text indicators, they don't align properly with everything else on the panel
[08:43] <ochosi> sounds like you could send an email to the ayatana ML
[08:43] <ali1234> it doesn't have anything to do with ayatana...
[08:43] <ali1234> it's more to do with themes
[08:44] <ali1234> you can't hard code the size of indicators, because you don't know what size the icon or font is going to be
[08:44] <ali1234> the container needs them all to be the same size, but in order for text to align properly, they all have to be the same height as the natural height of the gtk label, which you can't know without knowing the font
[08:45] <ochosi> but what do you expect from the theme?
[08:45] <ali1234> nothing
[08:45] <ali1234> the point is, it can change
[08:45] <ochosi> what can change?
[08:46] <ali1234> the font and the font size
[08:46] <ochosi> yeah, but that could even be fixed by the theme (at least in gtk2 it could)
[08:46] <ali1234> and for the other indicators, the icon from the icon theme
[08:49] <ochosi> generally speaking i'd say if it works for our default setup, that's (almost) good enough
[08:50] <ali1234> it's easy to make it work correctly with fixed size panel, and specific theme, icons, and font/font sizes
[08:50] <ali1234> the problem is if you change even one of those it goes wonky
[08:51] <ali1234> can you send me a screenshot of the "wrong" icons?
[08:53] <ochosi> what do you mean with wrong?
[08:53] <ochosi> you mean because i said they're not centered?
[08:53] <ali1234> yeah
[08:53] <ochosi> they're just off by 1px
[08:53] <ochosi> too close to the bottom
[08:53] <ochosi> like you mentioned yesterday
[08:53] <ali1234> all of them?
[08:53] <ali1234> or just some of them?
[08:54] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09042013-105358am.php
[08:54] <ochosi> it seems like all of them
[08:54] <ochosi> but e.g. the synapse indicator looked totally off too
[08:54] <ochosi> but i wouldn't bother with single indicators and their particular behavior
[08:54] <ali1234> what if you make the panel bigger by exactly 1 pixel?
[08:54] <ochosi> it looks better, but it
[08:55] <ochosi> 's still base-aligned
[08:55] <ochosi> this is 26px (+2): http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09042013-105521am.php
[08:55] <ali1234> you need a minimum of 28px with the default settings
[08:56] <ochosi> doesn't look different to me in terms of centering
[08:56] <ali1234> when you mouse over the icons are they all the same size?
[08:57] <ochosi> yes
[08:58] <ochosi> btw, the soundmenu is awfully broken
[08:58] <ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09042013-105816am.php
[08:59] <ali1234> lolwat
[08:59] <ochosi> yeah, no clue what's up with that
[08:59] <ali1234> maybe you're missing libido
[08:59] <ali1234> ok, you see how the blue background fills the panel when you mouse over the sound menu?
[08:59] <ochosi> nope, that's installed
[09:00] <ochosi> yeah
[09:00] <ochosi> i see that
[09:00] <ali1234> what happens if you make the panel be say 50px and then mouse over the wifi icon?
[09:00] <ochosi> so the widget scales up, but the iconsize is fixed (which is what i was talking about before)
[09:00] <ali1234> or the message icon
[09:00] <ochosi> still a small blue hover square
[09:00] <ali1234> right. but the sound one is the full height, yeah?
[09:01] <ochosi> no, they're all the same
[09:01] <knome> micahg, nope.
[09:01] <ali1234> well, that's different to what i see
[09:01] <knome> micahg, you might've uploaded, i don't know. i'm asking because the bug/blueprint statuses says you didn't
[09:01] <knome> micahg, i'm fine if it lands before final.
[09:01] <ali1234> here, the sound icon isn't square, so it fails the is_small test and gets extended to full panel height
[09:02] <ochosi> i see
[09:02] <ochosi> i'll recompile the plugin then
[09:02] <ali1234> so unless you've overridden the height in the theme...
[09:02] <ochosi> not reall
[09:02] <ochosi> y
[09:04] <ochosi> ali1234: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09042013-110418am.php
[09:04] <ochosi> (after having recompiled the plugin)
[09:04] <ochosi> before i just did a make install from the version i built in raring
[09:04] <ochosi> so as you can see it's still square
[09:05] <ochosi> but the soundmenu is weird
[09:05] <ali1234> sound menu looks fine now
[09:05] <ochosi> what, it's supposed to be like that?
[09:05] <knome> ubottu, the OEM iso produces unrecoverable errors when trying to boot into what's supposed to be the end-user config
[09:05] <ali1234> that's how it's supposed to look if you have loads of music players installed, yes
[09:05] <ochosi> shouldn't the playcontrols be hidden?
[09:05] <ali1234> no
[09:05] <ochosi> at least in raring they were
[09:05] <knome> Unit193, the OEM iso produces unrecoverable errors when trying to boot into what's supposed to be the end-user config
[09:06] <ochosi> aha, the playbutton even works and starts up gmusicbrowser
[09:06] <ochosi> so they changed that
[09:06] <knome> Unit193, "The installer encountered an unreoverable error. A desktop session will now be run so that you may investigate the problem or try installing again."
[09:06] <ali1234> ochosi: give this a try: https://github.com/ali1234/xfce4-indicator-applet/tree/child-alloc
[09:06] <knome> Unit193, click "OK" -> launches a GUI again, same error -> infinite loop
[09:06] <ali1234> it will probably still be broken, but in a different way
[09:07] <ochosi> actually the current version doesn't seem broken to me at all
[09:07] <ochosi> it's just off by 1px
[09:07] <ali1234> try a different theme
[09:07] <ochosi> that's not a criterion
[09:07] <ochosi> themes have to be fixed
[09:07] <ali1234> well, try that version anyway
[09:07] <ochosi> sure ;)
[09:07] <ochosi> i just wanted to say, it's not as bad as it sounded
[09:08] <ali1234> it's not bad with greybird because of all the special casing you;ve done... but that's just papering over the cracks
[09:08] <knome> Unit193, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/saucy_testing/xubuntu-oem-fail.png
[09:08] <ochosi> ali1234: no, not really
[09:08] <ochosi> it's clear that this *needs* special theming
[09:08] <ali1234> it doesn't need special theming
[09:08] <ochosi> it does :)
[09:09] <ochosi> how shall it pick up the colors from the gtk2 panel in your opinion?
[09:09] <knome> Unit193, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/saucy_testing/xubuntu-oem-fail-tty.png
[09:09] <ali1234> by having the gtk2 theme and the gtk3 theme set the same colour for the panel
[09:09] <ochosi> yeah, but there is no common class for that
[09:10] <ochosi> and themes still would have to be fixed
[09:10] <ochosi> not all themes behave that way
[09:10] <ochosi> many set a gradient in gtk3, but not in gtk2 because it wasn't possible
[09:10] <ochosi> whoops, you renamed -plugin to -applet?
[09:11] <ali1234> background colour doesn't really have anything to do with overriding the button sizes and padding though
[09:11] <ochosi> does that mean i can install both side by side?
[09:11] <ali1234> i didn't rename anything afaik
[09:11] <ochosi> true, background color is just the basis, if that's broken it looks totally broken :)
[09:12] <ali1234> oh, i guess i renamed the repo ... it won't make any different
[09:12] <ochosi> you know, even ambiance themes its indicators other than regular buttons
[09:12] <ochosi> so it's expected that indicators don't look like regular buttons
[09:12] <ochosi> i thought it'd be ideal if the gtk3 indicators in the xfce plugin would pick up that theming
[09:12] <ochosi> but i'm not sure it's possible
[09:13] <ali1234> hmm... no
[09:13] <ali1234> it's possible
[09:13] <ochosi> i thought it might work by setting the widget-name to unity-panel or something along the lines of that
[09:13] <ali1234> all you have to do is set the names of the gtk classes right
[09:13] <ochosi> or setting the correct widget-class
[09:13] <ochosi> well then let's get on with it! :)
[09:14] <ali1234> here's the thing
[09:14] <ochosi> :)
[09:14] <ali1234> when i set the theme to ambiance, indicators look like normal buttons for me
[09:14] <ochosi> mhm
[09:14] <ali1234> they look the same as the main menu button
[09:14] <ali1234> the corners are perhaps a little more round but that really is just gtk2/3 differences
[09:15] <ochosi> just to mention that in advance: ambiance and radiance don't have great support for the xfce panel
[09:15] <ali1234> right
[09:15] <ali1234> they don't apply any special theme to the xfce panel, and they don't apply any special theme to indicators
[09:16] <ochosi> in gtk3 they do
[09:16] <ali1234> well i can't see it
[09:16] <ali1234> i think you mean they do in unity
[09:17] <ochosi> where's the difference?
[09:17] <ochosi> that's what gtk3 is for ubuntu
[09:17] <ochosi> at least in the panel
[09:17] <ali1234> not at all
[09:17] <ochosi> so the unity-panel is qt now?
[09:18] <ali1234> just using gtk3 for the panel isn't enough to make the special theming work
[09:18] <ali1234> when the indicator registers on the panel it just gives a gtk label and a gtk image
[09:18] <ali1234> the applet itself has to make the actual button
[09:18] <ali1234> so the ones made by xfce don't get themed
[09:19] <ali1234> even though they are really (really) gtk3 buttons
[09:19] <ali1234> this is why the indicators look the same as the other panel stuff - none of it has any special theming
[09:20] <ochosi> you're still referring to ambiance and radiance, right?
[09:20] <ali1234> anything at all except greybird as far as i can tell
[09:20] <ali1234> maybe not even that
[09:21] <ochosi> greybird does theme all kinds of plugins differently on the xfce panel
[09:21] <ochosi> that's why the panel has its own gtkrc file
[09:21] <ali1234> yeah
[09:21] <ochosi> and that's how it's supposed to be imho
[09:22] <ochosi> that's why all shimmer themes try to do stuff to the panel
[09:22] <ochosi> make the indicators look like they're better integrated into the panel than mere buttons
[09:22] <ali1234> the point is you can't reliably theme something that doesn't work with no customizations at all
[09:22] <ochosi> (as an eample)
[09:22] <ochosi> yeah, but we're talking about distro-level here
[09:23] <ochosi> not upstream xfce
[09:23] <ochosi> xubuntu is the only distro that *really* benefits from that plugin
[09:23] <ochosi> and if we ship it, we ship themes with it that work with what we have
[09:23] <ochosi> and if people want to use other themes, they oughta fix them up
[09:23] <ochosi> for me it's as simple as that
[09:24] <knome> +1
[09:24] <ali1234> if you want to patch every theme to fix the problems then that's fine
[09:24] <knome> ali1234, we don't, and we won't
[09:24] <ochosi> yeah, that was the original plan :)
[09:24] <ali1234> but you're going to need different tweaks in each one
[09:24] <ochosi> i mean shimmer-themes
[09:24] <ochosi> yeah, according to each theme
[09:24] <ali1234> which has what, 5 themes in it?
[09:24] <ochosi> yeah
[09:24] <knome> 5 themes is doable
[09:24] <ochosi> but as i wrote most of them, i know my way around them
[09:24] <ochosi> and the fixes are tiny
[09:25] <ochosi> in comparison to other ubuntu messes i had to clean up in the past
[09:25] <ali1234> hahaha
[09:25] <knome> it's a fair price to pay to get gtk3 indicators back and not having to maintain the gtk2 indicator stack
[09:25] <ali1234> you won't be able to fix the theme in a way that works if someone resizes the panel by 1 pixel
[09:25] <ochosi> sure
[09:26] <ali1234> knome: the gtk2 version of this applet was no better
[09:26] <ochosi> not sure what you consider broken about a larger panel
[09:26] <ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/light-themes/saucy/view/head:/Ambiance/gtk-3.0/apps/unity.css#L18
[09:26] <ochosi> this is the code unity uses ^
[09:26] <ochosi> even the border width is changed to something odd
[09:26] <ochosi> so don't tell me they don't use special theming for indicators ;)
[09:26] <ali1234> they do
[09:26] <ali1234> but none of that code will apply under xfce
[09:26] <ochosi> unless we set the correct class
[09:27] <ali1234> so you get a standard button unless you patch every theme
[09:27] <ochosi> which is what i suggested before
[09:27] <ochosi> (in the plugin, that is)
[09:27] <ali1234> it still won't look the same though
[09:27] <ali1234> because the widget tree is different and has different properties (gtk properties, not css)
[09:28] <ochosi> i know i know
[09:28] <ochosi> which is why i said earlier, that switching to a menubar is the only way to get reliable theming
[09:28] <ochosi> when wanting to recycle the unity theming
[09:28] <ali1234> yes
[09:28] <ochosi> otherwise there'll always have to be a fix
[09:28] <ali1234> the unity theming will look terrible with the current code
[09:28] <ochosi> until the gtk3 panel for xfce arrives
[09:28] <ali1234> especially if it goes into two rows
[09:28] <ochosi> if there's a gradient, then for sure
[09:29] <ochosi> as long as only bg and fg color are picked up, it might actually help
[09:29] <ochosi> but i don't think it's worth fiddling with that
[09:29] <ochosi> i'll patch the themes we ship, and we'll be done with it
[09:29] <ochosi> we can even write a blogpost about how to fix your theme
[09:29] <ali1234> the unity themes don't modify fg and bg explicitly for the indicators
[09:29] <ochosi> and in a few weeks, the most-used themes will carry fixes
[09:30] <ochosi> yeah, which is why it'd have to inherit the unity-panel class (or UnityPanelWidget)
[09:30] <ali1234> no, the unity-panel class does not set explicit fg and bg for the panel
[09:30] <ochosi> it does, this is the bg: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/light-themes/saucy/view/head:/Ambiance/gtk-3.0/apps/unity.css#L3
[09:30] <ochosi> and the fg is in line10
[09:30] <ali1234> hmm, ok
[09:31] <ochosi> btw, your branch doesn't look any different to upstream here
[09:31] <ochosi> maybe i need to recompile the panel too?
[09:31] <ochosi> (but i wouldn't think so)
[09:31] <knome> ali1234, that's debatable, but for the purposes we are doing this, it's not the poing :)
[09:31] <ali1234> no, you need to switch to a theme that hasn't been bodged to hide the problems.. but meh
[09:31] <knome> *point
[09:31] <ochosi> ah :)
[09:31] <ochosi> ok, will do
[09:32] <ochosi> ambiance looks nice with it
[09:32] <ochosi> but the bg color of the panel is still wrong
[09:32] <ochosi> because ambiance doesnt make it dark for the xfce panel
[09:32] <ali1234> yeah but that's the bg colour of the whole panel, not just indicator applet
[09:32] <ochosi> yeah, but unthemed = broken (imo)
[09:33] <ochosi> the indicator-buttons now look nicer than the appmenu button (which looks like a regular button)
[09:33] <ali1234> well i'd rather have the whole panel unthemed than half of it
[09:33] <ochosi> so what exactly did you change there?
[09:33] <ali1234> i changed the GtkAlign to CENTER instead of FILL
[09:34] <ochosi> i see
[09:34] <ali1234> and i changed the label minimum height to 1px instead of ICON_SIZE
[09:34] <ali1234> and i removed a whole load of "+1" when the result gets divided by two
[09:34] <ochosi> so the label can be smaller than the icon-size?
[09:34] <ali1234> and i fixed the is_small() function so it doesn't fail on non-square pixbufs
[09:34] <ochosi> doesn't that get a bit hard to read?
[09:35] <ali1234> no, because it's only the minimum
[09:35] <ochosi> yeah, but that means it scales down, no?
[09:35] <ali1234> it does MAX(ICON_SIZE, gtk_prefered_height(widget))
[09:36] <ali1234> expanding doesn't stretch the contents
[09:36] <ali1234> it just fills in with empty space
[09:36] <ali1234> which isn't necessarily the same size on the top and the bottom
[09:36] <ali1234> hence the 1px misalignment (or one source of it anyway)
[09:38] <ochosi> but what i notice is that the button-borders are chopped off with your branch on a 24px panel
[09:38] <ali1234> probably
[09:39] <ochosi> same in ambiance and in greybird
[09:39] <ali1234> actually no, the borders are always visible
[09:39] <ali1234> the icons however, get cropped
[09:39] <ali1234> if you make the panel really small
[09:40] <ochosi> the top and bottom border on the button are chopped off too, unless i make the panel 28px tall
[09:41] <ochosi> which doesn't seem to be the case with the upstream version
[09:41] <ali1234> screenshot it?
[09:41] <ochosi> sure, one sec
[09:43] <ali1234> some things to note: the icons *never* get scaled
[09:43] <ali1234> only ever cropped or padded
[09:43] <ali1234> same goes for the text labels
[09:43] <ali1234> but, the icons are not all the same size, they're not even all the same shape
[09:44] <ali1234> and some indicators generate "icons" in real time, and can change shape on the fly
[09:44] <ali1234> i haven't yet seen on with an icon and a label, but that would cause it's own set of problems
[09:47] <ochosi> mhm, i see
[09:47] <ali1234> wait, is that a deskbar?
[09:47] <ochosi> a vertical panel that has horizontal items
[09:47] <ali1234> no, they're always vertical
[09:47] <ochosi> (in short)
[09:49] <ochosi> http://imagebin.org/269833
[09:49] <ochosi> left is 26px
[09:49] <ochosi> right is 28px
[09:49] <ochosi> if you look closely, you'll see the highlight-border on the top right
[09:50] <ochosi> ok, gotta run (lunch)
[09:50] <ochosi> bbabl
[10:11] <knome> Unit193, do we know if the OEM mode works for xubuntu generally?
[10:11] <Unit193> I don't.
[10:11] <knome> i suppose that would be my next step then
[10:41] <ali1234> ochosi: try this one: https://github.com/ali1234/xfce4-indicator-applet/commits/child-alloc-2 - with greybird it should have vertical consistency down to 22px
[10:41] <ali1234> the cost is that the row stacking is completely disabled
[10:43] <knome> down to 22px? does that mean it'll break with smaller panels?
[10:44] <ali1234> yes
[10:44] <ali1234> the panel that is in xfce now breaks when smaller than 28px, so this is an improvement
[10:45] <knome> why? that's far from optimal
[10:45] <knome> depends...
[10:45] <ali1234> because when the panel gets smaller than 28px, the vertical alignment explodes
[10:46] <knome> seems to work well for me
[10:46] <ali1234> you probably just didn't notice
[10:46] <ali1234> it is only out by 1 px
[10:47] <knome> i'd notice if it was ugly
[10:48] <knome> Unit193, same error with the regular image
[10:48] <ali1234> put an indicator-datetime next to the xfce clock applet, then resize the panel. they only have the same alignment if the panel height is even and >=28px
[10:49] <Unit193> Isn't that great...
[10:49] <knome> Unit193, yes!
[10:49] <Unit193> Lets hope since I basically have the beta, it works.
[10:49] <knome> Unit193, what works? :)
[10:50] <Unit193> Modified OEM. :P
[10:50] <knome> heh
[10:50] <knome> why would it?
[10:50] <Unit193> Magic, and I'm tired.
[10:50] <knome> if you looked at the screenshot, the theme isn't even greybird
[10:50] <knome> there's something fishy in there
[10:50] <knome> there was no guarantee it'd work anyway
[10:50] <knome> brb, phone
[11:20] <Unit193> knome: Did you get the stacktrace on bootup too?  I saw it when I removed quiet splash, but not sure what it's related to.
[11:20] <knome> nope
[11:20] <knome> i would imagine there is simply some bit we need to push for the oem installation to work
[11:21] <Unit193> Could ask quality if main works.
[11:21] <knome> well it most probably does
[11:21] <knome> i believe that's the thing
[11:21] <knome> it's made to work with main, but not flavors
[11:22] <ochosi> ali1234: will check it out now
[11:22] <knome> which is why no flavor had an oem slideshow before either
[11:22] <ochosi> ali1234: and i just compiled master, not your child-alloc branch before by accident... :/ sorry bout that
[11:23] <Unit193> Blame xonx, call it a day. ;)
[11:23] <knome> hah
[11:24] <Unit193> Not sure what the traceback was for, oh well.
[11:24] <knome> :)
[11:25] <ochosi> knome: in general the indicators work nicely btw
[11:25] <knome> ochosi, good to hear that
[11:25] <ochosi> i really think it's not too much of a stretch to pull them in
[11:26] <Unit193> Considering how many times we've heard about it....
[11:26] <knome> in to... ?
[11:26] <Unit193> ochosi: General?
[11:26] <ochosi> Unit193: general what?
[11:26] <ochosi> knome: well at least backports
[11:26] <knome> ok
[11:26] <ochosi> Unit193: i haven't found anything so far that doesn't work with them
[11:26] <knome> ochosi, he means s/in general/generally/ ? :P
[11:26] <ochosi> i mean in terms of functionality, everything seems nice
[11:27] <ochosi> some misalignments of icons in indicators that we don't install by default
[11:27] <ochosi> but nothing dramatic
[11:28] <Unit193> Cool, ISOs are going away.
[11:28] <knome> Unit193, wha?
[11:29] <ochosi> by the way, it seems like shutting down throws me back to the login screen in saucy
[11:29] <ochosi> doesn't that sounds familiar?
[11:29] <knome> ochosi, aha
[11:29] <knome> :<
[11:30] <ochosi> that's after upgrading
[11:30] <ochosi> have to see whether i can debug it
[11:35] <knome> would like to see the logout/lock problem fixed first :<
[12:01] <ochosi> knome: btw, i can reproduce the logout bug
[12:01] <ochosi> in general, lightdm seemingly has become very sloooow
[12:03] <knome> aha
[12:05] <ochosi> i mean trying to log out or shut down the session takes ages
[12:05] <ochosi> and yeah, i can confirm both bugs
[12:05] <knome> bah
[12:05] <ochosi> shutdown *and* logout don't work as expected
[12:06] <ochosi> we should get in touch with some lightdm folks asap
[12:06] <ochosi> not sure what the best way would be
[12:06] <ochosi> i could report a bug, and you could send an email to the lightdm ML pointing to the bug and that this is quite a problem for us
[12:06] <ochosi> (wearing your XPL hat)
[12:07] <knome> i can do that
[12:07]  * ochosi looks at reporting the bug
[12:14] <ochosi> knome: ubuntu switched to logind from policykit as far as i know (in 13.10)
[12:14] <ochosi> so that might also affect us in some way, maybe lightdm doesn't work properly anymore with polkit or something
[12:14] <ochosi> systemd is definitely installed here
[12:14] <ochosi> i mean logind (which is only a part of systemd)
[12:14] <knome> okay
[12:15] <knome> that's out of my expertise, but good to know the debugging is progressing ;)
[12:15] <ochosi> i'll ask around a bit more
[12:15] <Unit193> Yeah, several systemd packages you can't remove
[12:15] <ochosi> (logind is supposed to handle sessions)
[12:28] <ochosi> wowza, evince3.8 has two gear menu buttons...
[12:29] <elfy> do they have syncromesh?
[12:29] <ochosi> the two buttons are distinct though
[12:29] <ochosi> different functionality
[12:29] <ochosi> i assume the second gear is the fallback from gnome3's appmenu
[12:33] <knome> ->
[12:48] <Unit193> elfy: Seemed like "everyone pick on balloons" time. :D
[12:48] <smartboyhw> Unit193, everybody should pick on balloons:P
[14:44] <micahg-work> knome, I didn't upload that yet, I'll do it over the weekend
[14:59] <knome> ochosi, you around?
[15:16] <ochosi> knome: now i am
[15:17] <knome> ochosi, have you talked with mterry about lightdm?
[15:17] <ochosi> no, i haven't
[15:17] <ochosi> i don't know mterry (yet)
[15:17] <knome> just a pointer, and he seems to be on ir
[15:17] <knome> irc
[15:17] <knome> if you want to catch up with him, i can do the initial poking
[15:18] <knome> (i don't know him either, but i don't care)
[15:18] <ochosi> sounds good
[15:18] <ochosi> i wanted to ask cavalier about some xfsession input first
[15:18] <ochosi> pinged him while ago
[15:18] <ochosi> so maybe wait a lil longer
[15:18] <knome> well i already did
[15:18] <knome> :P
[15:19] <ochosi> hehe
[15:19] <ochosi> ok
[15:19] <knome> but he's "busy" too, so...
[15:19] <ochosi> yup, we'll see
[19:25] <elfy> knome: when you're about I'd like to talk to you about test results 
[19:26] <ochosi> elfy: any issues shutting down?
[19:26] <elfy> nope
[19:26] <ochosi> i end up at the greeter when i do that
[19:26] <elfy> why? have you had those?
[19:26] <ochosi> ok, then maybe that's my private issue
[19:26] <elfy> oh - ok - yea you do :)
[19:26] <elfy> I did have those a while back - I created a bug for it 
[19:26] <ochosi> ah, where?
[19:27] <elfy> but that's been fixed
[19:27] <ochosi> it has?
[19:27] <elfy> well it has for me :)
[19:27] <ochosi> hm, i see
[19:27] <ochosi> can you still dig up that bugreport for me
[19:27] <elfy> hang on - looking
[19:27] <ochosi> please? 
[19:27] <ochosi> thanks!
[19:27] <Unit193> I don't either, FWIW.
[19:28] <elfy> gonna be longer - I must have commented or something 
[19:31] <elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-session/+bug/1178373
[19:31] <elfy> no idea whu I missed that 
[19:31] <elfy> ochosi: ^^ that's the bug I had 
[19:35] <ochosi> meh, i didn't have "proposed" activated by default
[19:36] <ochosi> thanks elfy°
[19:36] <ochosi> !
[19:36] <ochosi> the logout > unlock bug prevails?
[19:37] <ochosi> sounds like it could come from the same source (logind and xfce4-session)
[19:37] <Unit193> proposed isn't generally recommended on -devel.
[19:38] <elfy> ochosi: logout/unlock continues to be a pain
[19:38] <elfy> like the sound indicator 
[19:39] <elfy> I really shouldn't have said turn on the upgrade tests :|
[19:40] <elfy> doing 64 bit in vm, doing 32bit on the lappy
[19:40] <ochosi> i have working gtk3 indicators here anyway ;)
[19:41] <ochosi> and to the worst i always know how to use the cli
[19:41] <elfy> lol
[19:41] <Unit193> CIL?
[19:41] <elfy> ochosi: I've been watching the gtk3 indicator chats - I've not been ignoring it - I've just had one of those weeks
[19:43] <ochosi> well it's all working dandy
[19:43] <ochosi> we just have to convince micahg by testing it more of us
[19:45] <elfy> well I'll be about shortly - happy to lend a hand where I can of course :)
[19:49] <ochosi> it entails a bit compiling from git and stuff
[19:50] <elfy> I am sure I can more or less manage ... 
[19:51] <elfy> might get the odd - what ? 
[19:51] <elfy> it's up to you :)
[19:54] <ochosi> hehe
[19:54] <ochosi> sure, if you need help, feel free to ping
[19:55] <elfy> ochosi: I'll look back over the logs tomorrow - see what I can decipher first 
[20:05] <ochosi> elfy: if you need a set of instructions, i can send them to you via email
[20:05] <ochosi> or pastebin them
[20:06] <elfy> ochosi: that would be a good start - you want to mail them me - elfy at ubuntu.com
[20:08] <ochosi> elfy: sent
[20:09] <elfy> thanks ochosi - I'll have a look later
[20:11] <ochosi> ok, great!
[20:11] <ochosi> gotta take an early one tongiht
[20:11] <ochosi> tonight
[20:11] <ochosi> seeya!
[20:11] <elfy> night ochosi 
[20:16] <knome> elfy, yes?
[20:17] <knome> elfy, i'll be here when you get back :)
[20:30] <skellat> How are we doing on LP #1219592 so far?  Can we sneak it in still for a last beta re-spin maybe perhaps maybe?
[20:31] <knome> skellat, after b1
[20:31] <knome> and that reminds me we should double-check the release notes are in shape
[20:34] <skellat> knome: Understood.  I don't remember us being in the last release announcement even though we released.
[20:34] <knome> we didn't make much fuss about it
[20:34] <knome> but we should do a news article for b1 as well
[20:40] <skellat> knome: May I PM you a link?
[20:40] <knome> sure
[20:43] <elfy> knome: just a quick one - the 2 beta tests - not upgrade  - are done now - the only fails are the lightdm lang bug - as far as I can see they can be marked released - that ok with you 
[20:43] <elfy> and I'm half way through upgrade ones - but might not finish
[20:43] <knome> brb in 5
[20:45] <elfy> ok
[20:51] <knome> yeah, i'm with releasing
[20:55] <elfy> okey doke
[20:56] <knome> err, i meant to say "i'm ok with releasing", but that's just the same message anyway ;)
[20:56] <elfy> that's what I read it as :)
[20:56] <knome> yep
[20:56] <knome> i was the one filing the fails anyway
[20:57] <knome> and they basically just mean we have a bug to squash, not that one can't use the system
[20:57] <knome> but the locking bug is nasty
[20:57] <elfy> yep - saw - was why I checked:)
[20:57] <knome> we really need to have that fixed
[20:57] <elfy> yea agreed - not nice it needs fixing 
[20:57] <knome> it's not just "not nice", for me it's release-critical
[20:58] <elfy> marked the 2 beta products as ready
[20:58] <knome> or at least really close
[20:58] <elfy> yep 
[20:58] <elfy> we need to really tie up these 'mmm reallyy' bugs 
[20:58] <knome> bah, stop using the numeric numeral, the heart keeps bouncing to my throat because it thinks you're talking about "beta 2" :P
[20:58] <elfy> just starting the 32bit upgrade tests now
[20:59] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[20:59] <elfy> by starting I mean installing 13.04 so I can test it ... 
[20:59] <elfy> that's the 2nd test on the Beta page :p
[21:00] <knome> awwh
[21:01] <elfy> but seriously - the not being able to logout/lang bug would give me puase for thought when it comes to releasing 
[21:02] <elfy> on a postive note now that stgraber has released that fix hopefully we can push for those tests soon
[21:02] <knome> yup
[21:02] <knome> mhm
[21:03] <knome> it's not the languages..
[21:03] <knome> it's the "not able to log out"
[21:03] <knome> or you are, but lightdm doesn't acknowledge that
[21:03] <knome> and that sucks
[21:03] <elfy> yea 
[21:03] <elfy> agreed
[21:03] <elfy> language might be small - but it appears to be part of the same issue
[21:04] <knome> it definitely is
[21:04] <knome> it's fixed when the originating issue is
[21:05] <elfy> yea
[21:07] <elfy> I really wish that in 1981when I got the chance to change profession and get into computers I'd not said 'what?'
[21:07] <elfy> I might have had half a chance of actually fixing things :)
[22:46] <micahg> knome: I"ll be unavailable until Sun morning UTC, so if you need something before then, you'll have to find someone
[22:51] <elfy> have a good time till then micahg :)
[22:51] <micahg> thanks
[22:51] <elfy> you're welcome :)
[23:38] <elfy> knome: all tests run now - goodnight :)